Abduction Of My Daughter, By My Thai Wife

[scott1999]

last week the embassy and my lawyer tried to phone the officer in charge at the police station of sending the papers to the court , no joy, i was told by the police when the half sister was arrested 10 days ago that there was no need to keep looking for my daughter because quote there must be a hearing with in two weeks where the judge will want to talk with all the family members and my daughter and me,

since then i have not heard anything from anyone , the half sisters lawyer , the police, the court,

so last night i asked for help from some friends that i have known for a lone time, they all play golf together and then come to the complex for food and to relax, people that are pretty high up the hiso chain, one is a retired general, he has many friends that are judges, and one more friend in the group is in the opposition party re govenment,

tomorrow monday i will meet with them, to show all the paperwork i have,

even last night they had a judge on the phone with in minutes, the judge asked are all the right questions, 1 was we married in thailand , my answer was yes, re 50/50 my daughter, 2 did i have proof that i took care of my daughter while wife was in england , i said yes, 3 do i have my daughters passport, i said yes.

then he asked where the mother is, i said i dont know,

so on monday they said they will find out what court the case will be heard at, and talk to the police at the station, re are the papers on the way, hope this does not upset the police as they have been great up to now,

so on monday with have meeting with these people again, plus my lawyer will be there, hope they can do what they say they can do , will help speed things up and make thing more clear for me,

fingers crossed,

Edited November 14, 2010 by scott1999

[Nawtier]

Nice....if they do provide some answers...you might have to shout them a meal and booze up session.....or/and a round of golf if you play.

[scott1999]

Nice....if they do provide some answers...you might have to shout them a meal and booze up session.....or/and a round of golf if you play.

thanks for reply Nawtier , what ever it takes, i will do,

[mkawish]

Nice....if they do provide some answers...you might have to shout them a meal and booze up session.....or/and a round of golf if you play.

If everything comes to pass according to the way they say it would, then you really owe everyone of them much more than a meal or some booze session.

You would really need to show some major gratitudes, really.

Everyone of these persons might come to your assistance again, if you play your card right.

Good luck.

[scott1999]

had the meeting last night,

had the Attorney General on the phone at one point, the way it was explained to me by my hiso friends and my lawyer, was that if i did get custody of my daughter, and the mother got 2 days a week , if the mother then did not give back the child ie the child said she wanted to stay with the mother, the police would not take any action and back to the court we go,

the lawyer said my daughter is the last hold on me that the mother has, does not matter that she will be disadvantaged re education, have no father, but at this moment in time things are clear to me, its all about the money, the wife with my daughter can ask for money forever from the judge, for her to take care of my daughter,

shame the wife thinks its ok not to let me see my daughter and to show she is ok , but thats part of the game to make me worry, and do something, re divorce, so how i feel right at this moment is, if i can live with the not knowing if my daughter is ok, i will just see what happens, re kidnapping and divorce cases

if i stop pushing for answers, and just let the police and courts do ther jobs, i stop playing their game , its only a game if two people are playing, and im not any more,

maybe things will change when things get closer to court, but i must thank all the people on this forum for your help,

as the general said western people thinking comes frome the angle of the best start you can give for your kids, some people in the east will come from the angle of money at any cost, children will be seen as collateral damage.

so i will take a leaf out of buddas book and just sit and wait,

Edited November 16, 2010 by scott1999

[Mario2008]

Waiting is not an option, it is a fight in which you are involved. Whether you like it or not. But you can decide how you fight and should consider that carefully. You don't have to fight in the way they want you to fight.

Keep your head up and don't give in. Focus on showing that you are a good, loving father who takes better care of his daughter than the mother.

Yes, your wife can ask money from you to take care of your daughter. But what your wife at this moment may not realize is that the amount will be somewhere between 3,000 an 6,000 baht a month and that she also has to shoulder the costs.

She will be disappointed when she finds out.

[scott1999]

Waiting is not an option, it is a fight in which you are involved. Whether you like it or not. But you can decide how you fight and should consider that carefully. You don't have to fight in the way they want you to fight.

Keep your head up and don't give in. Focus on showing that you are a good, loving father who takes better care of his daughter than the mother.

Yes, your wife can ask money from you to take care of your daughter. But what your wife at this moment may not realize is that the amount will be somewhere between 3,000 an 6,000 baht a month and that she also has to shoulder the costs.

She will be disappointed when she finds out.

you have read between the lines again mario, very clever person you are, what i said in my post is all true, but as you said there are other ways to fight,

[MikeyIdea]

Good post from Mario2008 - you fight best by showing that you are the best parent. Let the mother say that she doesn't want to see you, you talk about that itis important for the child that the father and the mother can talk to each other

if the mother then did not give back the child ie the child said she wanted to stay with the mother, the police would not take any action and back to the court we go,

It is a bit lame but I understand how they think. The child will not necessarily benefit from seeing the mother arrested and certainly not benefit from being taken from the mother against her will - because of a temporary decision. The child is with the legal mother and a court case will come soon enough. A final decision is a different matter and court will carefully have considered all aspects before taking that decision

If the judge gives you temporary custody, then you are in your right to sue the mother if she doesn't hand over the child to you. You will win but question is if decision will come in time, you may find that the Thai justice system could be surprisingly much slooower that time. You could sue anyway to throw dirt on the mother but I don't think it will convince the Juvenile court that you are the better parent. Your fight is showing and proving to the juvenile court judge that you are the best parent, my opinion anyway

I wrote a couple of times that the child has quite a lot to say in Thailand. Children are so easily brainwashed, I have a Thai friend who saw his 2 children (4 and 6) go from Daddys darlings who never cared about the mother who never cared about them either to saying that they didn't want to be with the father - in only 3 months - because the mother allowed them to stay up late, didn't care about homework, food and tried to win them over by throwing dirt on the father "teaching" them how bad he had been to her. Not trying to scare you Scott, the children has gone back to being Daddys darlings not wanting to go back to the mother again... It's not about what we SAY to children, it's about what we DO, what we ARE. You need to work long term and just ignore what the mother says now (which will be back talking you in any way she can for sure), eventually you will persevere. I saw exactly the same with my daughter, whenever Idea wanted to buy something and mummy didn't have money, she said; Mummy can't buy it for you because Daddy doesn't give mummy any money. Sod what the mother does or says, be the best father you can, always be patient and predictable and the child will appreciate you. The same happened to my best Thai friend at work, a wonderful guy. I was at his marriage in 97 and they loved each other so much, 2 kids and 10 years later the marriage failed and the mother started to "work" on the kids. The father decided to just try to do the best he possibly could for his children, the kids are now 9 and 6 and they adore their father and spend 70% of the time with their father regardless of that the divorce agreement says something else and the mother is totally helpless.

In short (nothing is short that I write in this area ); The child is 9 years old, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the child says that she wants to stay with the mother at the temporary decision, don't blame the child if it happens, just accept it and get along with being the best father you possibly can.

its all about the money, the wife with my daughter can ask for money forever from the judge, for her to take care of my daughter

Money...

9 year old and I'm not exactly sure how much monthly child alimony the mother is entitled to. It is approx. 3,100 bath per month for a 4 and 6 year old. It is probably somewhere around 4,000 bath per month for a 9+ year old. PLUS that father and mother jointly pay health costs and education. These costs are NOT automatically paid by the father at all. Note that the wife also is entitled to zero alimony from her wife part

Sure, it's all about money and as Mario2008 says - She will be disappointed when she finds out

I suggest letting the lawyer ask the negotiator to use the formulas they have at juvenile court and count up the child alimony for a 9 year old. It will come up to somewhere between 3,500 and 4,500 bath per month something. First wake-up call. Then let your lawyer tell the mother that mother and father share education and health care costs for the child after divorce (in principle, this is correct although it's not practically going to happen), second wake-up call. The child suddenly goes from being a milk cow to becoming an economic burden - which of course a child should be and the mother should also be told that. Mother probably plan to say that she wants 10,000 bath per month to let father get 2 days per week... Time to laugh Scott. Let your lawyer ask the mother how she is planning to pay half the education costs... Yes, father can accept to pay 4,000 bath per month in child alimony and pay education but to do that he wants 5/2 and if child doesn't stay with the mother the 2 days, then she is to be handed over to the father. Trade money for possession VERY carefully. If you decide that you can pay education, then do not trade money until you have really made the point to the mother that you already trade considerably if you agree to pay education costs. You probably shouldn't trade money at all if you accept to pay education costs actually. I have heard of one case where the court didn't accept to consider father paying education costs, principle is that it should be shared by both parents actually (which is benefiting the mother as she won't pay... or can't pay). The court won't force you to trade money but the court will allow the mother and you to negotiate using money.

The child WILL at the end of the day decide who she will stay with, it may take a while but she will. No court decision can change that.

Be patient, Be the best father you can

Good Luck

Edited November 16, 2010 by MikeyIdea

[scott1999]

Good post from Mario2008 - you fight best by showing that you are the best parent. Let the mother say that she doesn't want to see you, you talk about that itis important for the child that the father and the mother can talk to each other

if the mother then did not give back the child ie the child said she wanted to stay with the mother, the police would not take any action and back to the court we go,

It is a bit lame but I understand how they think. The child will not necessarily benefit from seeing the mother arrested and certainly not benefit from being taken from the mother against her will - because of a temporary decision. The child is with the legal mother and a court case will come soon enough. A final decision is a different matter and court will carefully have considered all aspects before taking that decision

If the judge gives you temporary custody, then you are in your right to sue the mother if she doesn't hand over the child to you. You will win but question is if decision will come in time, you may find that the Thai justice system could be surprisingly much slooower that time. You could sue anyway to throw dirt on the mother but I don't think it will convince the Juvenile court that you are the better parent. Your fight is showing and proving to the juvenile court judge that you are the best parent, my opinion anyway

I wrote a couple of times that the child has quite a lot to say in Thailand. Children are so easily brainwashed, I have a Thai friend who saw his 2 children (4 and 6) go from Daddys darlings who never cared about the mother who never cared about them either to saying that they didn't want to be with the father - in only 3 months - because the mother allowed them to stay up late, didn't care about homework, food and tried to win them over by throwing dirt on the father "teaching" them how bad he had been to her. Not trying to scare you Scott, the children has gone back to being Daddys darlings not wanting to go back to the mother again... It's not about what we SAY to children, it's about what we DO, what we ARE. You need to work long term and just ignore what the mother says now (which will be back talking you in any way she can for sure), eventually you will persevere. I saw exactly the same with my daughter, whenever Idea wanted to buy something and mummy didn't have money, she said; Mummy can't buy it for you because Daddy doesn't give mummy any money. Sod what the mother does or says, be the best father you can, always be patient and predictable and the child will appreciate you. The same happened to my best Thai friend at work, a wonderful guy. I was at his marriage in 97 and they loved each other so much, 2 kids and 10 years later the marriage failed and the mother started to "work" on the kids. The father decided to just try to do the best he possibly could for his children, the kids are now 9 and 6 and they adore their father and spend 70% of the time with their father regardless of that the divorce agreement says something else and the mother is totally helpless.

In short (nothing is short that I write in this area ); The child is 9 years old, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the child says that she wants to stay with the mother at the temporary decision, don't blame the child if it happens, just accept it and get along with being the best father you possibly can.

its all about the money, the wife with my daughter can ask for money forever from the judge, for her to take care of my daughter

Money...

9 year old and I'm not exactly sure how much monthly child alimony the mother is entitled to. It is approx. 3,100 bath per month for a 4 and 6 year old. It is probably somewhere around 4,000 bath per month for a 9+ year old. PLUS that father and mother jointly pay health costs and education. These costs are NOT automatically paid by the father at all. Note that the wife also is entitled to zero alimony from her wife part

Sure, it's all about money and as Mario2008 says - She will be disappointed when she finds out

I suggest letting the lawyer ask the negotiator to use the formulas they have at juvenile court and count up the child alimony for a 9 year old. It will come up to somewhere between 3,500 and 4,500 bath per month something. First wake-up call. Then let your lawyer tell the mother that mother and father share education and health care costs for the child after divorce (in principle, this is correct although it's not practically going to happen), second wake-up call. The child suddenly goes from being a milk cow to becoming an economic burden - which of course a child should be and the mother should also be told that. Mother probably plan to say that she wants 10,000 bath per month to let father get 2 days per week... Time to laugh Scott. Let your lawyer ask the mother how she is planning to pay half the education costs... Yes, father can accept to pay 4,000 bath per month in child alimony and pay education but to do that he wants 5/2 and if child doesn't stay with the mother the 2 days, then she is to be handed over to the father. Trade money for possession VERY carefully. If you decide that you can pay education, then do not trade money until you have really made the point to the mother that you already trade considerably if you agree to pay education costs. You probably shouldn't trade money at all if you accept to pay education costs actually. I have heard of one case where the court didn't accept to consider father paying education costs, principle is that it should be shared by both parents actually (which is benefiting the mother as she won't pay... or can't pay). The court won't force you to trade money but the court will allow the mother and you to negotiate using money.

The child WILL at the end of the day decide who she will stay with, it may take a while but she will. No court decision can change that.

Be patient, Be the best father you can

Good Luck

where do you people come from? to take the time to help people like you do, you dont even know me, when i was in aa i thought i helped some people but nothing like this, you are experts, and i thank you very much, you have lifted me today thank you,

thanks for the story re your friend , i am sending you a message that i sent to mario, thanks again

[Lumumba]

Ok, you have had enough help , lets move to Dmax overstay thread and help him stay out jail.

[scott1999]

Ok, you have had enough help , lets move to Dmax overstay thread and help him stay out jail.

ha ha ha thanks for the cheer up

[scott1999]

update

have been talking to mario and michael about my problems in private, they have been such great help, and will make public as soon as i can

i have had no contact with my daughter now since 25th october, later i found out the mother flew back to england on the 27th oct , with out my daughter,

the police who have been good seem to be not knowing what to do now, as the kidnapper has jumped bail and can not be found,

but i believe that 84 days after the arrest of the kidnapper the police have to send the case to the court for the judge to look at, so around 28th jan there should be so news on where my daughter is

i have two questions

1 can i ask the court to have a hearing even if the kidnapper is still on the run, with the other family members as 1 they know where my daughter is and 2 they know where the kidnapper is ,

2 i have my daughters passport but as the wife is now back in england, can she get my daughter a new passport with out my help or knowing,

[Dakhar]

update

have been talking to mario and michael about my problems in private, they have been such great help, and will make public as soon as i can

i have had no contact with my daughter now since 25th october, later i found out the mother flew back to england on the 27th oct , with out my daughter,

the police who have been good seem to be not knowing what to do now, as the kidnapper has jumped bail and can not be found,

but i believe that 84 days after the arrest of the kidnapper the police have to send the case to the court for the judge to look at, so around 28th jan there should be so news on where my daughter is

i have two questions

1 can i ask the court to have a hearing even if the kidnapper is still on the run, with the other family members as 1 they know where my daughter is and 2 they know where the kidnapper is ,

2 i have my daughters passport but as the wife is now back in england, can she get my daughter a new passport with out my help or knowing,

This is a all a guess, but:

The fact that the mother of your child left the country without your child is a very big PLUS for you. It is easy to establish an intent to abandon the child. I would also guess that "Yes" it is possible to have the court proceedings, in order to establish custody without the mother.

As far as her having the ability to get your child a passport with out your help, I know American Law would not allow her to get a passport without your assistance.

My x-in-laws stole my childrens passports. They still have them to this day. I can not re-apply for new ones due to the fact my wife or x-wife will not assist in doing so. Thus, my children will always remain in Thailand along with the 7million baht worth of property they got out of me too....

Great people, I wish I could say a "rare find" but I don't think they are.

[scott1999]

update

have been talking to mario and michael about my problems in private, they have been such great help, and will make public as soon as i can

i have had no contact with my daughter now since 25th october, later i found out the mother flew back to england on the 27th oct , with out my daughter,

the police who have been good seem to be not knowing what to do now, as the kidnapper has jumped bail and can not be found,

but i believe that 84 days after the arrest of the kidnapper the police have to send the case to the court for the judge to look at, so around 28th jan there should be so news on where my daughter is

i have two questions

1 can i ask the court to have a hearing even if the kidnapper is still on the run, with the other family members as 1 they know where my daughter is and 2 they know where the kidnapper is ,

2 i have my daughters passport but as the wife is now back in england, can she get my daughter a new passport with out my help or knowing,

This is a all a guess, but:

The fact that the mother of your child left the country without your child is a very big PLUS for you. It is easy to establish an intent to abandon the child. I would also guess that "Yes" it is possible to have the court proceedings, in order to establish custody without the mother.

As far as her having the ability to get your child a passport with out your help, I know American Law would not allow her to get a passport without your assistance.

My x-in-laws stole my childrens passports. They still have them to this day. I can not re-apply for new ones due to the fact my wife or x-wife will not assist in doing so. Thus, my children will always remain in Thailand along with the 7million baht worth of property they got out of me too....

Great people, I wish I could say a "rare find" but I don't think they are.

thanks for your post

nice to know im not alone

[pjclark1]

2 i have my daughters passport but as the wife is now back in england, can she get my daughter a new passport with out my help or knowing,

I believe you will have to notify the passport office in the UK to stop this happening (or get a family court order in the UK)

UK family courts don't really like men though!

[scott1999]

2 i have my daughters passport but as the wife is now back in england, can she get my daughter a new passport with out my help or knowing,

I believe you will have to notify the passport office in the UK to stop this happening (or get a family court order in the UK)

UK family courts don't really like men though!

yes am talking to passport office in england now, but they have told me to talk to british embassy in bangkok as they think my daughter is still in thailand, should know tomorrow,

thanks for your reply

[scott1999]

should have some news soon , divorce started , and the 84 days are up at the end of the month so the criminal case against the halfsister will have to go to court,

i have started a facebook profile

so anyone wants to see me and my daughters photo please sign up as friends,

thanks again to everyone here at thaivisa for all your help,

and when things start to happen i will let you all know,

[Mario2008]

I hope your long struggle will come to an end soon. Showing your girl's photo will of course increase the chance that someone sees her and could be useful if you have an idea in what area she might be staying. But keep in mind your own privacy and that of your child. And also that the other party might read what you say on here.

[scott1999]

I hope your long struggle will come to an end soon. Showing your girl's photo will of course increase the chance that someone sees her and could be useful if you have an idea in what area she might be staying. But keep in mind your own privacy and that of your child. And also that the other party might read what you say on here.

understand mario and thank you from the bottom of my heart to you and michael, and the other members of this forum ,

i can but try, i know thai law now to a degree , and the 84 days are almost up, yes the judge can just reissue the warrant for the halfsister, but i hope he can do a little more,

[scott1999]

it is to late tonight for me to explain what happened in court today,

but i must thank MikeyIdea for coming with me today,

with out Michael i would have had no chance of getting the deal i got today,

i am going to have the best nights sleep , that i have had since September the 12th 2010,

because today with help from Michael, we won, my daughter is now going to be happy again soon,

Thai courts work very different to western courts, but in my case, i could not be happier with what they did for my daughter today,

i love my daughter, and must say a big thank you to the good people of Thailand.

[Mario2008]

Congratulations, have a well deserved good night sleep.

[scott1999]

Congratulations, have a well deserved good night sleep.

thankyou Mario, i hope one day me you and Michael, can have meal together, on me,

[Mario2008]

A free meal is always nice, but it is Mikeyidea that did all the good work to help you.

[scott1999]

A free meal is always nice, but it is Mikeyidea that did all the good work to help you.

understand, but i feel i owe a great debt to this forum. ie the people in it.

Michael is much more eloquent then me.

he said he will do the write up, of what happened, and hope it can help anyone that gets into the same scenario that i was in.

[fezzy]

Scott; as a new father of my 1 month old girl I feel for you and your very sad story as i have read this topic from start to current as if it was top selling novel and totally connect with you and your situation. I wish you all the best with the outcome .I'm happy that you found such help from fellow xpats as this would be such a draining ordeal to go through.

Keep your chin up and have faith m8

FEZZY

[Mario2008]

1 unnecesarry reply deleted.

[scott1999]

Scott; as a new father of my 1 month old girl I feel for you and your very sad story as i have read this topic from start to current as if it was top selling novel and totally connect with you and your situation. I wish you all the best with the outcome .I'm happy that you found such help from fellow xpats as this would be such a draining ordeal to go through.

Keep your chin up and have faith m8

FEZZY

thank you fezzy for your support , where i am now , well the mother has not complied with the agreement made the 24th of jan, so in the next couple of weeks will be very important , in terms of my daughters future ,

micheal has been with me every step of the way , ie the 8 court appearances, and he will soon write the whole

story down , so it may help any one in the future,

on a personal note i wish to thank michael and every one that has taken the time to follow this thread,

from the bottom of my heart,

i just did not ever believe that a child would be used in such a way,

god bless and please god help the little children,

thanks again

Edited February 25, 2012 by scott1999

[anon345535]

glad you got a good result. michael is also a legend in my eyes too

[scott1999]

went to see my daughter yesterday, wow what a very brave girl she is , after 16 months of being lied to , she still found it in her heart to give her dad a cuddle, i am so very proud of her,

[kevjohn]

I am so happy for you.