24 Injured On Vietnam Airlines Flight

[haveaniceday]

At least it was a B777, so we can rule out another "Scare Bus" A330 "incident".

Those naughty Air Bus planes.

[Tigs]

Utterlyuseful

I am afraid I need not engage any further. The numbers you quote are hopelessly hopelessly wrong. But hey, google is your friend right! Nice site lots of authority there ... Not!

You really need to research how many flights there are per day world-wide and then annually. The number is absolutely nowhere near your figure, absolutely not even on the same planet, never mind ballpark. Assumption may well be the basis of mathematics, but asking Einstein is a little problematic and your assumptions are way way of the mark.

I am well aware of the entire occurrences surrounding the One-2-Go incident, you were the one mentioning it in connection to a 'microburst'!!!

Anyway, I will tooddle off now. I know nothing, Only 20 years as a Pilot and 10 years running an international Air Safety Company, delivering world-wide Air Safety training, mandated and approved by FAA, EASA, and individual CAA's across the globe, and lecturing as guest speaker all over the world to countless audiences up to 1000 people. Have a great weekend, and...remember your belt.

Edited October 22, 2010 by Tigs

[haveaniceday]

Tigs, I agree some of the maths posted is, well, "out there with the fairies"

One slight thing, Orient Thai / 1-2 Go dodgy brothers, the Phuket Accident is an Accident, not an Incident.

Tigs:"I am well aware of the entire occurrences surrounding the One-2-Go incident"

Not saying you don't know your stuff, but lecturing to me as a guest speaker t

Edited October 22, 2010 by haveaniceday

[Tigs]

Tigs, I agree some of the maths posted is, well, "out there with the fairies"

One slight thing, Orient Thai / 1-2 Go dodgy brothers, the Phuket Accident is an Accident, not an Incident.

Tigs:"I am well aware of the entire occurrences surrounding the One-2-Go incident"

Not saying you don't know your stuff, but lecturing to me as a guest speaker t

haveaniceday

It must have been subliminal as I was using a split screen and had read your post before mine. You are of course entirely correct for which I offer my apology. Human Error and all that. To question ability as a guest speaker on the 'slight thing' is perhaps a little harsh eh? Happy flying, and have a nice day.

[Utterlyuseful]

YOU need to do the research because you are the one making the false claims......oh yes yes I was also a fighter pilot , former formula one champ, ex-cia....we all were! etcetc

here's another one to worry the likes of you though on another TV thread

"Elevators and escalators kill about 30 people and injure 17,000 each year in the US. In 2003, a particularly nice doctor in a Houston hospital was decapitated. Yes, lots of safety stuff but sometimes those digital chips just fail badly. Don't revert to stairs though, the stats per user per hundred feet of elevation are worse."

Better get yer seatbelt on on that escalator Mr scarebro'

The sky is falling, the sky is falling, run run......

Utterlyuseful

I am afraid I need not engage any further. The numbers you quote are hopelessly hopelessly wrong. But hey, google is your friend right! Nice site lots of authority there ... Not!

You really need to research how many flights there are per day world-wide and then annually. The number is absolutely nowhere near your figure, absolutely not even on the same planet, never mind ballpark. Assumption may well be the basis of mathematics, but asking Einstein is a little problematic and your assumptions are way way of the mark.

I am well aware of the entire occurrences surrounding the One-2-Go incident, you were the one mentioning it in connection to a 'microburst'!!!

Anyway, I will tooddle off now. I know nothing, Only 20 years as a Pilot and 10 years running an international Air Safety Company, delivering world-wide Air Safety training, mandated and approved by FAA, EASA, and individual CAA's across the globe, and lecturing as guest speaker all over the world to countless audiences up to 1000 people. Have a great weekend, and...remember your belt.

Edited October 22, 2010 by Utterlyuseful

[Starlifter]

I don't know what all the fuss is about? Normal people pay good money for a ride like this when the carnival comes to town!

http://video.yahoo.com/watch/8007279/21233172

Edited October 22, 2010 by Starlifter

[haveaniceday]

Tigs, No problem !!!!

The 1-2 Go accident, yes pilot error is some of the blame, I think his biggest error was not to quite that company after he realised the disgusting safety culture there.

I personally put much more of the blame on to Orient Thai management, owner, and the Thai Authorities who encouraged them over a long time.

Re the VN flight, Clear Air Turbulence happens, a bit different if they deliberately went into a Thunderstorm cell out of incompetence or pressure from the company to save time. No real evidence of his. To me a non issue. Buckle Up.

Edited October 23, 2010 by haveaniceday

[Tigs]

YOU need to do the research because you are the one making the false claims......oh yes yes I was also a fighter pilot , former formula one champ, ex-cia....we all were! etcetc

here's another one to worry the likes of you though on another TV thread

"Elevators and escalators kill about 30 people and injure 17,000 each year in the US. In 2003, a particularly nice doctor in a Houston hospital was decapitated. Yes, lots of safety stuff but sometimes those digital chips just fail badly. Don't revert to stairs though, the stats per user per hundred feet of elevation are worse."

Better get yer seatbelt on on that escalator Mr scarebro'

The sky is falling, the sky is falling, run run......

I am not making any false claims, I do not need to do the research, and I am not going to engage with somebody displaying a Neanderthal tendency for picking a fight. If you want to put up something totally ridiculous on the site, such as you believe that there are 1.85 billion flights each year then don't say people are making false claims when they say you are wrong. I know the answer, now you go and figure, as you deserve no assistance from me with your confrontational outbursts. But start looking a LOT LOT lower, say around 98-99% lower than the figure you claim.

The thread is not about lifts, nor escalators nor elevators. It was simply about safety advice. With air travel you are provided with a simple piece of safety equipment. The advice from the aircraft manufacturer, the Captain, the flight crew, is to wear your seat belt at all times, and unless you are a huge fat lardy ass there is little discomfort in doing so. You were simply advised, IF you encounter one of the different types of severe turbulence, unexpectedly, and you are not wearing a restraining device, because you think you know better than the aforementioned professionals, you are likely to get hurt and the injuries have been known to be severe, in some cases fatal. No scaremongering, just simple facts, so you choose what you wish, it is not to prevent litigation, or the wearing of seat belts throughout your flight would be mandatory, it is advice given to you by the aircraft operators out of a duty of care. Have a nice day.

Edited to add.

Haveaniceday

There are a number of operators out here that have got 'situations' going on that would make your toes curl if you knew what was happening. There was one operator I was asked to do some scoping work for with a view to implementing a CRM/Human Factors program (they - the owners just wanted a tick in the box). Having lunch with a couple of Captains and Senior cabin crew, I found out that one of the 747s was missing 45 emergency oxygen masks for the pax, and the ones that were in the aircraft were not fitted, as they were the wrong type!!!! So in the event of a cabin depressurization the masks would drop down and fall in to your lap, which at 35 000 feet would result in a lot of corpses. The owners of the company didn't give two hoots when I spoke to them about it the same day. I declined to work with them.The airline is, thankfully, since finished.

Edited October 23, 2010 by Tigs

[Utterlyuseful]

You were given the chance to put up some facts to defend your point but you can't and have stood down....just as expected. Name calling was the best you could do! Your false claims are hereby dismissed.

But reading further it sounds like you actually want to scare people based on the unknown because you were making money from it? Now I understand everything....

YOU need to do the research because you are the one making the false claims......oh yes yes I was also a fighter pilot , former formula one champ, ex-cia....we all were! etcetc

here's another one to worry the likes of you though on another TV thread

"Elevators and escalators kill about 30 people and injure 17,000 each year in the US. In 2003, a particularly nice doctor in a Houston hospital was decapitated. Yes, lots of safety stuff but sometimes those digital chips just fail badly. Don't revert to stairs though, the stats per user per hundred feet of elevation are worse."

Better get yer seatbelt on on that escalator Mr scarebro'

The sky is falling, the sky is falling, run run......

I am not making any false claims, I do not need to do the research, and I am not going to engage with somebody displaying a Neanderthal tendency for picking a fight. If you want to put up something totally ridiculous on the site, such as you believe that there are 1.85 billion flights each year then don't say people are making false claims when they say you are wrong. I know the answer, now you go and figure, as you deserve no assistance from me with your confrontational outbursts. But start looking a LOT LOT lower, say around 98-99% lower than the figure you claim.

The thread is not about lifts, nor escalators nor elevators. It was simply about safety advice. With air travel you are provided with a simple piece of safety equipment. The advice from the aircraft manufacturer, the Captain, the flight crew, is to wear your seat belt at all times, and unless you are a huge fat lardy ass there is little discomfort in doing so. You were simply advised, IF you encounter one of the different types of severe turbulence, unexpectedly, and you are not wearing a restraining device, because you think you know better than the aforementioned professionals, you are likely to get hurt and the injuries have been known to be severe, in some cases fatal. No scaremongering, just simple facts, so you choose what you wish, it is not to prevent litigation, or the wearing of seat belts throughout your flight would be mandatory, it is advice given to you by the aircraft operators out of a duty of care. Have a nice day.

Edited to add.

Haveaniceday

There are a number of operators out here that have got 'situations' going on that would make your toes curl if you knew what was happening. There was one operator I was asked to do some scoping work for with a view to implementing a CRM/Human Factors program (they - the owners just wanted a tick in the box). Having lunch with a couple of Captains and Senior cabin crew, I found out that one of the 747s was missing 45 emergency oxygen masks for the pax, and the ones that were in the aircraft were not fitted, as they were the wrong type!!!! So in the event of a cabin depressurization the masks would drop down and fall in to your lap, which at 35 000 feet would result in a lot of corpses. The owners of the company didn't give two hoots when I spoke to them about it the same day. I declined to work with them.The airline is, thankfully, since finished.

Edited October 23, 2010 by Utterlyuseful

[TAWP]

YOU need to do the research because you are the one making the false claims......oh yes yes I was also a fighter pilot , former formula one champ, ex-cia....we all were! etcetc

It is fairly obvious to anyone reading this topic who has facts and background knowledge on this subject and who has none.

You are not in any position to 'dismiss' anyone's posts as less than factual. That would require that you have posted any factual post sofar and you have not.

So, yes, for most readers I would venture to say that you posts sofar have been utterly useless.

[haveaniceday]

sorry not buying this seatbelt argument at all....this is just an attempt by the airlines to cover up pilot error combined with some political correctness and fear of lawsuits.....I suspect that the chances of hitting severe turbulence are .00000001%....blame the passnegers, it's cheaper!

I am actually not sure why this is Thai related, not even a neighboring country, but scary aviation stories sell news and gets hits on tabloid news websites and front pages of tabloid trash news papers. This CAT incident has only made a mere mention on any of the decent industry publications, not as a news story, just as a mention and people in the industry have not followed up on the main forums either. Maybe it flew through Thai airspace !!!!!!!!

This comment above and all the crap this idiot posting has raved on about is utter trash. With extremely limit knowledge of the incident, it appears to be another CAT encounter, it is part of operating this machinery.

'Utterly usexxx' I would love to have taken you on a delivery ferry flight and 'explore' some jet streams, but then again, learning is clearly above your standard. After many thousands of hours dealing with jet streams and the associated CAT, I feel I am qualified to say you are an idiot.

So why don't you go live on this web site, put up a pic of a young Thai lady next to your name and join the others to race to be the first post reply to every item, you may even win :jap:

Edited October 23, 2010 by haveaniceday

[haveaniceday]

CAT = Clear Air Turbulence

One of the common places most pronounced is with Jet Streams that run West East around the world like a "straw" of very fast moving air and where this fast moving air meets the relatively slow air, friction and turbulence is induced. Note: this is not a definition, or really that accurate but a general comment to simplify my reference to CAT in the post above.

A simple analogy, you in the mountain bush walking, a narrow but fast moving stream is in your path you walk through, when you put a foot in the stream one leg has forces the other does not, hence a jerk. In all fairness, it is not a clear cut science detecting them, looking for some pretty old fashioned indicators with temp change etc.

Every pilot I know that I have seen while traveling in the back, have seat belt loose even when laying down sleeping.

Still have no idea why this news item is even here though !!!!

[Utterlyuseful]

good lord here we go again....after your doppelganger(most likely you), errr friend was humiliated for posting blatant lies you come on with the same name calling nonsense...post your facts or stand down...we are waiting.....check the forum rules as well about name calling....you are also dismissed pending your presentation of facts which you and I both know don't exist....don't bluff on a pair of deuces mate, yer losing face faster than yer altergego

YOU need to do the research because you are the one making the false claims......oh yes yes I was also a fighter pilot , former formula one champ, ex-cia....we all were! etcetc

It is fairly obvious to anyone reading this topic who has facts and background knowledge on this subject and who has none.

You are not in any position to 'dismiss' anyone's posts as less than factual. That would require that you have posted any factual post sofar and you have not.

So, yes, for most readers I would venture to say that you posts sofar have been utterly useless.

Edited October 23, 2010 by Utterlyuseful

[Tigs]

good lord here we go again....after your doppelganger(most likely you), errr friend was humiliated for posting blatant lies you come on with the same name calling nonsense...post your facts or stand down...we are waiting.....check the forum rules as well about name calling....you are also dismissed pending your presentation of facts which you and I both know don't exist....don't bluff on a pair of deuces mate, yer losing face faster than yer altergego

Utterlyuseless

You are a sandwich short of a picnic, truly. Being a blatant Troll is also against forum rules. By the way, what lies have I told? Have you checked your figures yet? Have you seen that 1.85 billion flights per year is total nonsense! That is enough flights to fly 250 billion people on, that is over 40 times the population of the entire planet!! Dork.

[Utterlyuseful]

sitcks and stones...........

post your facts or man up and stand down,

I never asked you to confess to being a blatant troll(freudian slip perhaps) , but thanls for coming clean on that at least .....the name calling was bad enough!

good lord here we go again....after your doppelganger(most likely you), errr friend was humiliated for posting blatant lies you come on with the same name calling nonsense...post your facts or stand down...we are waiting.....check the forum rules as well about name calling....you are also dismissed pending your presentation of facts which you and I both know don't exist....don't bluff on a pair of deuces mate, yer losing face faster than yer altergego

Utterlyuseless

You are a sandwich short of a picnic, truly. Being a blatant Troll is also against forum rules. By the way, what lies have I told? Have you checked your figures yet? Have you seen that 1.85 billion flights per year is total nonsense! That is enough flights to fly 250 billion people on, that is over 40 times the population of the entire planet!! Dork.

[fasthorse]

My friends were in this flight, they told me the seat bealts sign were on.

They felt very lucky they had their seat bealts on and they had good pilots.

The people who weren't using their seat bealts had some minor injuries so I guess that's why the pilots continued the flight.

[Hitch22]

sorry not buying this seatbelt argument at all....this is just an attempt by the airlines to cover up pilot error combined with some political correctness and fear of lawsuits.....I suspect that the chances of hitting severe turbulence are .00000001%....blame the passnegers, it's cheaper!

The pilot could be an ex soviet trained MiG pilot.

"Let see what this American baby can do, ..."

You ignorant troll .Most pilots on VN are foreigners .

[TAWP]

good lord here we go again....after your doppelganger(most likely you), errr friend was humiliated for posting blatant lies you come on with the same name calling nonsense...post your facts or stand down...we are waiting.....check the forum rules as well about name calling....you are also dismissed pending your presentation of facts which you and I both know don't exist....don't bluff on a pair of deuces mate, yer losing face faster than yer altergego

YOU need to do the research because you are the one making the false claims......oh yes yes I was also a fighter pilot , former formula one champ, ex-cia....we all were! etcetc

It is fairly obvious to anyone reading this topic who has facts and background knowledge on this subject and who has none.

You are not in any position to 'dismiss' anyone's posts as less than factual. That would require that you have posted any factual post sofar and you have not.

So, yes, for most readers I would venture to say that you posts sofar have been utterly useless.

What on earth are you on about? What names have I called you? What factual post have I not yet posted? You seem delusional.

[Utterlyuseful]

yawn....where do these baiting trolls come from?

good lord here we go again....after your doppelganger(most likely you), errr friend was humiliated for posting blatant lies you come on with the same name calling nonsense...post your facts or stand down...we are waiting.....check the forum rules as well about name calling....you are also dismissed pending your presentation of facts which you and I both know don't exist....don't bluff on a pair of deuces mate, yer losing face faster than yer altergego

YOU need to do the research because you are the one making the false claims......oh yes yes I was also a fighter pilot , former formula one champ, ex-cia....we all were! etcetc

It is fairly obvious to anyone reading this topic who has facts and background knowledge on this subject and who has none.

You are not in any position to 'dismiss' anyone's posts as less than factual. That would require that you have posted any factual post sofar and you have not.

So, yes, for most readers I would venture to say that you posts sofar have been utterly useless.

What on earth are you on about? What names have I called you? What factual post have I not yet posted? You seem delusional.

[Tigs]

Utterlyuseless

Where you one of those film extras in 'One flew over the Cuckoos Nest'?

Edited October 26, 2010 by Tigs

[Jangot]

The problem with unbelted fools like utterlyuseless is that when the aircraft hits turbulence and they have bounced off the aircraft ceiling, they then come down with a mighty thump upon some unlucky nearby passenger who was sensibly and properly belted.

[Utterlyuseful]

I feel sorry for you. You made outrageous claims, got caught out, and couldn't back them up.....I tried to help you to express yourself but you refused. C'mon give us all some evidence and back up yer false claims with actual stats....otherwise go into damage control with yer trolldoppelgangers buddies and get back under that bridge....or better yet check into a mental health center for delusional power trippers......next.....

Utterlyuseless

Where you one of those film extras in 'One flew over the Cuckoos Nest'?

Edited October 26, 2010 by Utterlyuseful

[haveaniceday]

Utterlyuless is claiming 1,850,000.000 flights per year. One billion eight hundred and fifty million. Also some really misinformed other ideas as well. I have been away for a couple of days and can't believe this is still a active thread.

Looking at the industry benchmark OAG Frequency and Capacity Trend Statistics for September 2010, Frequency, the number of scheduled commercial flights grew 6%, to a total 2.55 million flights, an increase of 151,257 monthly flights. Air service growth is reflected in every region of the world, again in September.

My math is 2.55 X 12 months = 30.6 million flights per year.

Out of interest in Sept 2010 Worldwide, seat capacity increased 8% in September to 319.48 million seats, an increase of 22.56 million seats on August.

I could break down regions and each country, but no need.

Utterlyusess , if you are so useful, how about you invent a way of detecting turbulence that can be installed in the aircraft. Ok Troll off.

In re reading this thread, your concepts are simply flawed, nothing personal, it takes all for the world to go round. Misinformation is simply wrong though. I can not let those numbers you made up not be corrected with fact

Edited October 27, 2010 by haveaniceday

[haveaniceday]

Utterlyuseless, you made a simply outrageous claim and got caught out. Facts are posted.

Edited October 27, 2010 by haveaniceday

[cdnvic]

I am sick of people who can't disagree without personal attacks. They stop right now or any of you who keep it up get suspended. Grow up.

[Puccini]

...Seatbelts or not, any passenger on the can was certain to get their pants stained...

There's an idea: put seat belts on toilet seats on aeroplanes.

[Puccini]

It was on the first or second flight of my life that the plane I was on hit an air pocket, over the British Channel. I can't remember whether the seat belt sign was on, but my belt was buckled. I have made at least a thousand flights so far and hit an air pocket a few dozen times, ie my habit of keeping the seat belt on throughout the flight, except when going to the toilet or otherwise taking a walk in the corridor to stretch my legs on a long flight, has served me well. One thing I've learnt is to take a deep breath the moment the plane starts to drop into an air pocket; this has become an automatic reflex with me.

[Utterlyuseful]

that is great, finally someone else who has come to the party with some statistics......I will overlook the personal attacks, as I am quite curious to get an estimate of the probabilities involved from an expert...I made a layman's guess...I also hope you are not that other troll that has been prowling around under different doppelgangers

can you break down your numbers according to the folliwing

-number of flights by country per year X average passenger numbers

-total number of fligths in US, Europe and Asia

-total global number

-source of data with verifiable source

-all assumptions made

-probability of an incident based on actual historical data.....number of flights, number of injured, breakdown of those caused by pilot equipmennt failure versus spontaneous occurence....

Keep up the good work,

I think you are on to something....

Utterlyuless is claiming 1,850,000.000 flights per year. One billion eight hundred and fifty million. Also some really misinformed other ideas as well. I have been away for a couple of days and can't believe this is still a active thread.

Looking at the industry benchmark OAG Frequency and Capacity Trend Statistics for September 2010, Frequency, the number of scheduled commercial flights grew 6%, to a total 2.55 million flights, an increase of 151,257 monthly flights. Air service growth is reflected in every region of the world, again in September.

My math is 2.55 X 12 months = 30.6 million flights per year.

Out of interest in Sept 2010 Worldwide, seat capacity increased 8% in September to 319.48 million seats, an increase of 22.56 million seats on August.

I could break down regions and each country, but no need.

Utterlyusess , if you are so useful, how about you invent a way of detecting turbulence that can be installed in the aircraft. Ok Troll off.

In re reading this thread, your concepts are simply flawed, nothing personal, it takes all for the world to go round. Misinformation is simply wrong though. I can not let those numbers you made up not be corrected with fact

Edited October 27, 2010 by Utterlyuseful

[Utterlyuseful]

can you please define what an "air pocket " is?

It was on the first or second flight of my life that the plane I was on hit an air pocket, over the British Channel. I can't remember whether the seat belt sign was on, but my belt was buckled. I have made at least a thousand flights so far and hit an air pocket a few dozen times, ie my habit of keeping the seat belt on throughout the flight, except when going to the toilet or otherwise taking a walk in the corridor to stretch my legs on a long flight, has served me well. One thing I've learnt is to take a deep breath the moment the plane starts to drop into an air pocket; this has become an automatic reflex with me.

[Bkkorupcountry]

can you please define what an "air pocket " is?

a local region of low pressure or descending air that causes a plane to lose height suddenly