Scaffolding In Front Of Central World Bangkok Collapses, Killing 2

[rixalex]

so now you are saying I am a liar and inhuman?

I thought personal abuse was banned on the forum, you ask a question, I give you an honest answer and you accuse me of being a liar and inhuman, amazing.

Enough with the melodramatics that play to the mods.

I was simply saying that anyone in the situation i described would be naturally looking for people to blame... and i do believe some of that blame would be laid with the vandals.

[animatic]

Central World is on land previously occupied by Wang Petchabun (the "Front Palace").

A prince who lived in and loved the palace placed a curse on the site if it was ever developed as a commercial/retail operation. All businesses that have occupied the site since the palace was razed (it was used as a museum following its decommissioning as a residence) have been plagued with bad luck and disappointed hopes. The scary Indian sculpture, "The Head", handed over to Central World by the Thai-India Chamber of Commerce on April 30th, 2009, is also regarded by Curse-believers as an evil influence. "The Head", with its manic stare, was the only survivor of the May fire at the Zen end ot the building.

Details can be found in the book อาถรรพ์วังเพ็ขชบูรณ ("The Curse of Wang Petchabun").

I'm not saying I believe in the curse, but I suspect many Thais may.

Didn't stop them shopping and hanging out there in the thousands.

[phiphidon]

An accident is generally attributed to being an unexpected event. In your example above you bring in the added dimension of personal feelings. Now, the relatives of the dead and injured may blame the redshirts of being responsible for the accident due to their personal feelings, or may not. I don't feel that it is justified for you to blame the redshirts for this accident on their behalf, or is it just for your benefit?

Random said it was pathetic to blame the red shirts. My point was that although it may be unfair, it is to be expected. It is a human reaction to look for what could have happened differently after an accident, that might have prevented it.. and Central World not being torched is one of those things.

Put it another way, if you were the one responsible for burning down the place, how would you be feeling if you met the families of those deceased from this accident? Not even a tiny bit to blame?

Rivalex, I had already edited my post to include an apology when I realised that you were not responsible for the "reds to blame" post. I still stand by my original viewpoint but accept that there are others.

[random]

'New Just In'

ThaiVisa posters find link between the Red Shirts and the start of World War 2

There was uproar on a Thailand based forum today when some members claim to have found a spurious link to the Red Shirt movement and the start of World War 2, one poster went as far as to claim that you never see Hitler and Thaksin in the same room together so it stands to reason that it is the same person. Another poster pointed out the difficulty faced by the lovely peacekeeping Yellow Shirts in trying to bring stability to Thailand, "they even took over the airport to stop nasty foreigners from flying in" he whined in his nasal tone.

Read more tomorrow when one poster finds a link between the Red Shirts and the flooding in Thailand.

[random]

so now you are saying I am a liar and inhuman?

I thought personal abuse was banned on the forum, you ask a question, I give you an honest answer and you accuse me of being a liar and inhuman, amazing.

Enough with the melodramatics that play to the mods.

I was simply saying that anyone in the situation i described would be naturally looking for people to blame... and i do believe some of that blame would be laid with the vandals.

What melodramatics, do you accept that my answer is my honest opinion or are you still calling me a liar?

[bangon04]

I Certainly hope the dodgy construction company and the RED Shirt criminals can be made accountable for these unfortunate alas additional victims.

What did the red shirts have to do with it?

If......

The red shirts had not firebombed the building.......

There would not be any (re)building necessary......

There would not have been any scaffolding necessary.......

Which might fall down (and did) for any imaginable kind of reason, as there are.........

Good thinking but you just don't go far enough with your logical analysis - in fact it is the Farang's fault. Why? Because the Farang invented/insists on using steel scaffolding. Without Farang influence the scaffolding would have been good strong but flexibleThai bamboo and tied correctly with good strong Thai scraps of string or banana leaves or leftover electrical wire.. therefore without Farang influence the accident would not have happened.

[ianbaggie]

If the red shirts hadn't burned it down - they wouldn't have scaffolding around it to repair it. Pretty obvious I would have thought?

I Certainly hope the dodgy construction company and the RED Shirt criminals can be made accountable for these unfortunate alas additional victims.

What did the red shirts have to do with it?

and if the building was never constructed the red shirts could not have burned it down, etc etc etc

Edited October 29, 2010 by ianbaggie

[sjjmmi]

'New Just In'

ThaiVisa posters find link between the Red Shirts and the start of World War 2

There was uproar on a Thailand based forum today when some members claim to have found a spurious link to the Red Shirt movement and the start of World War 2, one poster went as far as to claim that you never see Hitler and Thaksin in the same room together so it stands to reason that it is the same person. Another poster pointed out the difficulty faced by the lovely peacekeeping Yellow Shirts in trying to bring stability to Thailand, "they even took over the airport to stop nasty foreigners from flying in" he whined in his nasal tone.

Read more tomorrow when one poster finds a link between the Red Shirts and the flooding in Thailand.

:cheesy: :cheesy:

[rotary]

My guess is non certified scaffolding and it was not inspected by a qualified inspector before being used by the workers who should be using a Permit to Work"with a job safety analysis that is issued everyday.

Most of the scaffolding here in Thailand does not use the proper certified clamps that is international standard worldwide. They use a hook type connection that simply lays over other scaffolding.

You can drive anywhere in Bkk and see worker at heights riding on top of crane loads(a big no no), using non certified scaffolding, no proper full body harness for working at heights ,etc. I could go on and on about field made wire rope slings that cranes use that have not be load tested or inspected visual but I would just bore everyone. Until both contractors and clients are held responsible for workers accidents you will see no change.

[ianbaggie]

cause and effect, no red shirt fire no scaffold etc etc etc but the bottom line is if the scaffold fell down then it is simply the people that erected it and the insufficient training they were given, we see this type of thing all day every day and no thai seems to give a HOOT, sure I know at least 2 families tonight that wont be smiling in the LOS

No underhanded, undemocratically elected leader, no red shirt protest, no fire, no accident.

no billionaire convicted criminal ex prime minister

[whybother]

<snip>

Read more tomorrow when one poster finds a link between the Red Shirts and the flooding in Thailand.

The flooding DID start in the North, didn't it???

[random]

ianbaggie it would appear that something is wrong with your quoting, in your post #128 there you show comments attributed me that I never made, please change it

[NanLaew]

I wonder how it collapsed, poor construction of the scaffold or corrosion, my money would be on the first one. I would not go on a building site in this country for love nor money.

Cue the first "Thailand can't do anything right" post.

Why would you go on ANY building site in ANY country for that matter?

Unless you are Bob of course.

[random]

I wonder how it collapsed, poor construction of the scaffold or corrosion, my money would be on the first one. I would not go on a building site in this country for love nor money.

Cue the first "Thailand can't do anything right" post.

Why would you go on ANY building site in ANY country for that matter?

Unless you are Bob of course.

Would you go on a building site in this country? you already said you would not, so my post is correct, thank you.

[NanLaew]

Most of the scaffolding here in Thailand does not use the proper certified clamps that is international standard worldwide.

Ah yes... the same as they use in Malaysia and Japan and... South Africa and... Brazil.

"international standard worldwide".... LOL

[Randee]

'New Just In'

ThaiVisa posters find link between the Red Shirts and the start of World War 2

There was uproar on a Thailand based forum today when some members claim to have found a spurious link to the Red Shirt movement and the start of World War 2, one poster went as far as to claim that you never see Hitler and Thaksin in the same room together so it stands to reason that it is the same person. Another poster pointed out the difficulty faced by the lovely peacekeeping Yellow Shirts in trying to bring stability to Thailand, "they even took over the airport to stop nasty foreigners from flying in" he whined in his nasal tone.

Read more tomorrow when one poster finds a link between the Red Shirts and the flooding in Thailand.

[thaihome]

My guess is non certified scaffolding and it was not inspected by a qualified inspector before being used by the workers who should be using a Permit to Work"with a job safety analysis that is issued everyday.

Most of the scaffolding here in Thailand does not use the proper certified clamps that is international standard worldwide. They use a hook type connection that simply lays over other scaffolding.

You can drive anywhere in Bkk and see worker at heights riding on top of crane loads(a big no no), using non certified scaffolding, no proper full body harness for working at heights ,etc. I could go on and on about field made wire rope slings that cranes use that have not be load tested or inspected visual but I would just bore everyone. Until both contractors and clients are held responsible for workers accidents you will see no change.

Would agree with all you say, except what you should have said rather then "Most of the scaffolding here in Thailand.. " is "Most of the scaffolding here in Thailand that I have seen which is admittedly a small sample..."

TH

[NanLaew]

I wonder how it collapsed, poor construction of the scaffold or corrosion, my money would be on the first one. I would not go on a building site in this country for love nor money.

Cue the first "Thailand can't do anything right" post.

Why would you go on ANY building site in ANY country for that matter?

Unless you are Bob of course.

Would you go on a building site in this country? you already said you would not, so my post is correct, thank you.

Whoa there Tonto. I never said anything about my not going on a Thai building site. You missed my jibe at why you, a person who like myself, probably has only a layman's familiarity with building construction, would want to go on a building site in ANY OTHER country for any reason at all... ever?

Please tell me your NOT Bob?

[ianbaggie]

I Certainly hope the dodgy construction company and the RED Shirt criminals can be made accountable for these unfortunate alas additional victims.

What did the red shirts have to do with it?

If......

The red shirts had not firebombed the building.......

There would not be any (re)building necessary......

There would not have been any scaffolding necessary.......

Which might fall down (and did) for any imaginable kind of reason, as there are.........

We have already discussed a chain of causation, and that was broken long ago my friend, or if you wish we can take the chain back to the coup and lay the blame there.

.....................and if there hadnt been a criminal Dictator coward billionaire ex prime minister that HAD to be removed there would have been NO need for a coupe - so lets leave it at blaming the red puppets shall we?

[bbradsby]

I wonder how it collapsed, poor construction of the scaffold or corrosion, my money would be on the first one. I would not go on a building site in this country for love nor money.

As always the facts will speak for themselves. I agree that poor construction is more likely than corrosion but other possibilities are an external accident.(eg a vehicle crashing into the scaffold) incorrect design ( scaffold over a certain height has to be designed by a licensed Engineer according to Thai Law), subsidence of the ground under the support legs, pure stupidity( e.g. the two deceased had a fight and fell off the scaffold) and overloading with material to name a few. On good construction sites in Thailand ( meaning an owner who cares and a world class contractor)scaffold is inspected and certified before use and is as safe as any in the world. I personally have walked around on scaffold up to 200m above the ground on projects in Thailand without any concern because I knew that it had been built to a good standard and properly designed. Whatever the cause is found to be it will certainly have been a preventable accident and of course a very sad loss of life

To the possibilities you rightly mention, add modifications to the engineered & inpsected scaffolding by workers who think bits and attachments are just in their way. Happens everywhere, and is why engineered scaffold assemblies in the US are tagged with warnings not to alter or remove any bits under pain of death - Not to say idiots there don't monkey with scaffolds either, though

[wasas]

DEVELOPMENTS on Scaffold Collapse

The metropolitan police chief has revealed that a total of six people were injured in the accident. Two construction workers died on the scene. Officials have been able to fix a gas leak which was earlier reported. However, a team of investigators will be set up to find the cause of the collapse.

-- Tan Network 2010-10-29

yeah, good luck with that one

another chance for palms to be greased

[Randee]

If things are so bad how come so many of us are living - quite safely - in these Thai constructed concrete apartment blocks?

Many of which have been standing firmly for many many years throughout storm and sun batterings, even an earthquake or two. (but thats more than can be said for some interior decor of some of the older places)

[random]

If things are so bad how come so many of us are living - quite safely - in these Thai constructed concrete apartment blocks?

Many of which have been standing firmly for many many years throughout storm and sun batterings, even an earthquake or two. (but thats more than can be said for some interior decor of some of the older places)

Maybe because we don't live on scaffolding

[ianbaggie]

'New Just In'

ThaiVisa posters find link between the Red Shirts and the start of World War 2

There was uproar on a Thailand based forum today when some members claim to have found a spurious link to the Red Shirt movement and the start of World War 2, one poster went as far as to claim that you never see Hitler and Thaksin in the same room together so it stands to reason that it is the same person. Another poster pointed out the difficulty faced by the lovely peacekeeping Yellow Shirts in trying to bring stability to Thailand, "they even took over the airport to stop nasty foreigners from flying in" he whined in his nasal tone.

Read more tomorrow when one poster finds a link between the Red Shirts and the flooding in Thailand.

THE WORLD IS FLAT SAYS THAKSIN

Today on a Thai forum it was announced by several supporters that there was evidence that the world was finally FLAT.

Where did the news come from....................Thaksin their puppet master announced it last night they said and gave them 500 baht to believe it. they then went on to say that they would continue to rubbish any piece of factual information that went against bringing their master back to Thailand to his rightful place as "President Takky"

They then went on to say they had no grenades, they were really good people and they werent really red shirts but a sort of a scarletty orange colour -

Read more tomorrow when they deny responsibility for many of the dead in April and May and claim theyre just doing it all tgo bring democracy!!!

NEXT!!!

[wasas]

Cost cutting???? I Certainly hope the dodgy construction company and the RED Shirt criminals can be made accountable for these unfortunate alas additional victims.

Pathetic

also why was my post removed about the investigation? I simply said palms will be greased and it will all be forgotten about

We all like to blame Thailand and thai way of working, but about 3 years ago in milton keynes in uk , i was working on a hotel where 15 storeys of scaffolding fell, and luckily only 1 person was killed.

I left the building industry in uk to come here because health and safety laws was going totally over the top, and hindering working and earning money

[appleman]

In a tragic story of construction workers dying many of the "I hate living in Thailand" have come out strong. I feel sorry for these people who would probably be happier living somewhere else. Here are some of the comments as to why this accident happened - while the unfortunate victims are still warm:

Poor construction methods did it

Palms to be greased

Red Shirts did it

Half arsed attitude did it

Someone took out random bolts

Laotians, Nigerians and Thais have no brains

The government did it

You are a sorry bunch. And BTW, accidents like this have probably happened even in the great countries that you come from.

[Randee]

If things are so bad how come so many of us are living - quite safely - in these Thai constructed concrete apartment blocks?

Many of which have been standing firmly for many many years throughout storm and sun batterings, even an earthquake or two. (but thats more than can be said for some interior decor of some of the older places)

Maybe because we don't live on scaffolding

yes haha but a lot of comments have gone on to say how bad things are with shoddy workmanship, unsafe building sites, corner cutting, bribery, allsorts of things implying general safety concerns

[random]

'New Just In'

ThaiVisa posters find link between the Red Shirts and the start of World War 2

There was uproar on a Thailand based forum today when some members claim to have found a spurious link to the Red Shirt movement and the start of World War 2, one poster went as far as to claim that you never see Hitler and Thaksin in the same room together so it stands to reason that it is the same person. Another poster pointed out the difficulty faced by the lovely peacekeeping Yellow Shirts in trying to bring stability to Thailand, "they even took over the airport to stop nasty foreigners from flying in" he whined in his nasal tone.

Read more tomorrow when one poster finds a link between the Red Shirts and the flooding in Thailand.

THE WORLD IS FLAT SAYS THAKSIN

Today on a Thai forum it was announced by several supporters that there was evidence that the world was finally FLAT.

Where did the news come from....................Thaksin their puppet master announced it last night they said and gave them 500 baht to believe it. they then went on to say that they would continue to rubbish any piece of factual information that went against bringing their master back to Thailand to his rightful place as "President Takky"

They then went on to say they had no grenades, they were really good people and they werent really red shirts but a sort of a scarletty orange colour -

Read more tomorrow when they deny responsibility for many of the dead in April and May and claim theyre just doing it all tgo bring democracy!!!

NEXT!!!

yeah, not as funny when you have to copy someone else.

Next

[Randee]

I used to enjoy scaffolding when working for our family business. Especially in the English Autumn and winter. Lugging around 22 foot steel tubes and sending them up to the next level. Dad would've murdered us if such an unthinkable thing as a scaffolding collapse happened. God forbid. Scaffolding collapse!! No way in this world!! Great shame would've cursed us if such an unthinkable event occured

Edited October 29, 2010 by Randee

[random]

If things are so bad how come so many of us are living - quite safely - in these Thai constructed concrete apartment blocks?

Many of which have been standing firmly for many many years throughout storm and sun batterings, even an earthquake or two. (but thats more than can be said for some interior decor of some of the older places)

Maybe because we don't live on scaffolding

yes haha but a lot of comments have gone on to say how bad things are with shoddy workmanship, unsafe building sites, corner cutting, bribery, allsorts of things implying general safety concerns

I know mate, I was only joking.