Bmw / Merc Reliability

[Crash999]

Bought a 3-year old BMW several years back. Only problem I ever had with the car was an unusual noise coming from one of the brakes that was fixed. Never had any other issues and enjoyed driving it a lot. I'd stick to cars no older than about 5 or 6 years as the costs of parts is excessive.

[JAS21]

BMW and Benz use state of the art parts and tech to create their cars. . These solutions have been tested, but for a limited time. Some problems may occure, but driving them is another world compared to japs.

Camry and Accord use 3-7 year old tech to create their cars. Reliable but not very exciting. Inexpensive, I d say in Thailand cheap, cause most parts are thai made, and of course thai essambled. Performs drives and handles ALMOST as the Germans, but if you want state of the art saloons you pay a price in reliability and purchase price.

The Germans 5 year service package does not cover repairs not mentioned in service agreement, like autotrans, engine, etc.

Well I deal with BMW Europa, now May, who I have just checked with and who is pretty high up their service department tells me it does cover engine and gearbox. Thought I'd better get the facts as I have the car for sale. However if you sure of your facts please enlighten me.

Also there is no comparison in build quality between Camry/Accord and BMW/Merc or ride quality for that matter. It's a case of if you want a quality motor car over here you have to pay through the nose. Just because the car is capable of being driven fast doesn't mean that you have to, to appreciate it. However having said that the Camry/Accord are very popular here. I assume it's because they offer a reasonable motor car at at reasonable price.

[FarangBuddha]

Also there is no comparison in build quality between Camry/Accord and BMW/Merc or ride quality for that matter.

BMW/Merc owners always repeat this mantra (understandable after splashing out major dosh on one of these vehicles) but most objective auto review rankings don't support it.

Maybe 20-30 years ago one could make this argument with a straight face but not anymore. For the average auto buyer, the Japanese, and even American automakers, now produce well engineered and assembled cars at much cheaper price-points.

[katabeachbum]

Also there is no comparison in build quality between Camry/Accord and BMW/Merc or ride quality for that matter.

BMW/Merc owners always repeat this mantra (understandable after splashing out major dosh on one of these vehicles) but most objective auto review rankings don't support it.

Maybe 20-30 years ago one could make this argument with a straight face but not anymore. For the average auto buyer, the Japanese, and even American automakers, now produce well engineered and assembled cars at much cheaper price-points.

on subjective quality the germans like BMW,Benz and Audi definately feels better build

objectively Camry/Accord and most japs have less fault in a 3-5 year period of time, thus can be described as better build

BMWs ride comfort on runflat tyres have not been described as good by any report, but bying a close to 4 mill 520D I would replace them with something better handling anyway

[dave_boo]

Also there is no comparison in build quality between Camry/Accord and BMW/Merc or ride quality for that matter.

BMW/Merc owners always repeat this mantra (understandable after splashing out major dosh on one of these vehicles) but most objective auto review rankings don't support it.

Maybe 20-30 years ago one could make this argument with a straight face but not anymore. For the average auto buyer, the Japanese, and even American automakers, now produce well engineered and assembled cars at much cheaper price-points.

Can you give an example of a Japanese or American car that has the same objective qualities (engineered and assemebled to provide the same performance metrics) as a BMW and yet comes in at a much cheaper price-point?

For instance, the hot rod 135i could quite possibly be compared, based on 0-100 times, to the Camaro....however they're the same price! And I'd much rather be cornering with the baby BMW than the decent Chevy.

The 328i is the cheapest you can get in the States, what has similar stats at even 3/4 the price?

**edit**

BTW, Herr Naam, nice 8 series...

Edited November 3, 2010 by dave_boo

[Naam]

"BTW, Herr Naam, nice 8 series..."

a 19 year old '850' but pampered and in top shape

[katabeachbum]

Also there is no comparison in build quality between Camry/Accord and BMW/Merc or ride quality for that matter.

BMW/Merc owners always repeat this mantra (understandable after splashing out major dosh on one of these vehicles) but most objective auto review rankings don't support it.

Maybe 20-30 years ago one could make this argument with a straight face but not anymore. For the average auto buyer, the Japanese, and even American automakers, now produce well engineered and assembled cars at much cheaper price-points.

Can you give an example of a Japanese or American car that has the same objective qualities (engineered and assemebled to provide the same performance metrics) as a BMW and yet comes in at a much cheaper price-point?

For instance, the hot rod 135i could quite possibly be compared, based on 0-100 times, to the Camaro....however they're the same price! And I'd much rather be cornering with the baby BMW than the decent Chevy.

The 328i is the cheapest you can get in the States, what has similar stats at even 3/4 the price?

**edit**

BTW, Herr Naam, nice 8 series...

here in LOS an Accord 3,5 outperforms BMW 520i in every aspect, yet its cheaper.

Accord 2,4 performs on par or better than BMW 520i, has higher spec, and half the price

[Naam]

then what happens after outperforming? free som tam and Chang?

[FarangBuddha]

Can you give an example of a Japanese or American car that has the same objective qualities (engineered and assemebled to provide the same performance metrics) as a BMW and yet comes in at a much cheaper price-point?

For instance, the hot rod 135i could quite possibly be compared, based on 0-100 times, to the Camaro....however they're the same price! And I'd much rather be cornering with the baby BMW than the decent Chevy.

I rely on Consumer Reports and other objective auto testing and ratings surveys, which consistently rate Japanese cars (and even some of the newer American models) very high in safety, comfort, mechanicals, and customer satisfaction. As has been said, subjectively, BMWs/Mercs feel to their owners like they are better made. (Again, one wonders how much affect laying out 2x on such a models influences this "feeling.")

Please note that I said for the "average" car buyer...not the hot-rod enthusiasts or someone who wants to scream down the autobahn at 225 kilometers per hour (of course, which there are none in Thailand).

[katabeachbum]

then what happens after outperforming? free som tam and Chang?

may kin som tam, may kin Chang kap

free lobster and champagne

my 2008 Accord 2,4/180 hp did +70k km in one and a half year, bought new at 1,5 sold at 1,220. Issues, replaced brake discs and pads all 4, front covered by warranty. Mostly highway, mostly 160 cruisingspeed.

my 2007 Camry 2,4 similar, bought 1,5 sold 1,350 after one and half year +40k km.

Love beemers, but not the price in LOS, their lack of qualified garages outside bkk, number of faults and the long repair times

Edited November 4, 2010 by katabeachbum

[LivinLOS]

Why any farang [understand the Thais crave the status] would buy a BMW/Merc over a Toyota Camry/Honda Accord in Thailand is beyond me.

right you are. i must have been out of my freaking mind when i bought these two

Is that a legit CSI ?? Has the csi mirrors..

If so its the first I have seen here.. Wish I had mine here !!

[bazmlb]

I ahve two very old BM's an 89 E30 316i for the wife and a 91 E34 520i for myself, pretty cheap to buy, they are both very reliable and only had a few problems. The E34 is a lovely car to drive, fuel economy around town isn't flash but can get 7l/100km on country cycle if your on about 120, 100k sucks more then 120 due to the gearing, its a manual.

E34 (now completed over 120,000km in it in 3 years)

Clutch slave cylinder died - 400b to repair with a kit

AC compressor - Genuine Bosch was 8,000 so opted for a Chinese copy at 4k, still going ok after some 40,000km

Had new tailshaft unis and center joint fitted fr a total of 14,000 baht

New shocks all round 8,000 for bilstien

New brake pads and discs all round 7,000

E30 (owned for 6 months ish)

Recore Radiator 3000 baht

Both of these models were prolific here and parts are easy to get, many parts coming in from japan by the container load, just waiting for an m60 motor for the E34 now then it will be a nice jigger.

I would rather push my BM than drive a toymota

I like working on my own cars and looking after every detail i can which does make a difference, but all of the work above was done in shops.

[bkk_mike]

>>Why any farang [understand the Thais crave the status] would buy a BMW/Merc over a Toyota Camry/Honda Accord in Thailand is beyond me.

Some people enjoy driving hard and appreciate a car that feels and handles better than a Honda or Toyota looks or status be damned. Some people appreciate driving a car because they like the car, not that they give a sh** about what anyone else thinks.

This might make some sense in Germany (where there is an autobahn, where you could actually put these cars through their paces) or other countries where there are extensive and well maintained road networks. But in Thailand, with few such roads, extensive seasonal flooding, and potholes that would swallow a V-W Beetle, it just doesn't add-up for me.

However, there are many people who think like you by the numbers of these models being driven by foreigners so there must be something to it. For me, a vehicle is just a hunk of metal and glass that gets me safety and comfortably from point "A" to point "B," and Hondas and Toyotas do that just fine

You can go fairly fast on the expressways (outside of peak hours - or if going against the traffic - especially on the stretches outside the central zone). The same is true of the main ring road.

I actually find I have to use the cruise control on the X3 to keep me from going too fast.

Personal experience in Thailand, we had a Merc C-Class (bought new - previous model). But it occasionally had niggling faults (non-working indicator light, weird warnings on the computer that sometimes go away on their own). We kept it a few years, but ended up selling it after having to replace the main part of the aircon unit.

Now, we have two BMWs (320i and X3), and a Fortuner. X3 feels and is faster than the 320i and obviously a lot faster than the Fortuner and would definitely be my favourite for driving around in Thailand of the cars we've had. At the moment, we're still in the free servicing phase on both the BMWs, so our most expensive bills are currently for the Fortuner. The BMWs both seem a lot less problematic than the Merc was...

Build quality on the fortuner isn't quite up to the build quality on the BMWs. Just the plastics seem less nice to the touch, etc. Today found the first fault on the Fortuner (other than tyres) - one of the interior lights has stopped working.. (Not exactly major, but still more than has gone wrong on both our BMWs).

[Naam]

I rely on Consumer Reports and other objective auto testing and ratings surveys, which consistently rate Japanese cars (and even some of the newer American models) very high in safety, comfort, mechanicals, and customer satisfaction. As has been said, subjectively, BMWs/Mercs feel to their owners like they are better made. (Again, one wonders how much affect laying out 2x on such a models influences this "feeling.")

Please note that I said for the "average" car buyer...not the hot-rod enthusiasts or someone who wants to scream down the autobahn at 225 kilometers per hour (of course, which there are none in Thailand).

this is actually either a wrong perception conveyed by BMW/Mercedes owners to "outsiders" or a wrong perception by the outsiders. technically inclined people (like myself) know that the cars are not "better made" and if they are honest (like myself ) admit that they hate the overkill of technology packed into the cars. "hate" because a lot of it is useless technology, prone to malfunction after a certain time and thus causing high repair bills and/or waiting periods in the workshop.

:jap:

[Naam]

This might make some sense in Germany (where there is an autobahn, where you could actually put these cars through their paces) or other countries where there are extensive and well maintained road networks.

it only applies to Germany as (to the best of knowledge) my home country is the only one where one can find roads without any speed limits. but reality is that fast cars such as Ferraris, Porsches, Lamborghinis, Maseratis et al are exported to countries with stringent speed limits.

[Naam]

Why any farang [understand the Thais crave the status] would buy a BMW/Merc over a Toyota Camry/Honda Accord in Thailand is beyond me.

right you are. i must have been out of my freaking mind when i bought these two

Is that a legit CSI ?? Has the csi mirrors..

If so its the first I have seen here.. Wish I had mine here !!

it's not a CSI but due to the twin turbos it has 105 horse powers more than a CSI.

[dave_boo]

Why any farang [understand the Thais crave the status] would buy a BMW/Merc over a Toyota Camry/Honda Accord in Thailand is beyond me.

right you are. i must have been out of my freaking mind when i bought these two

Is that a legit CSI ?? Has the csi mirrors..

If so its the first I have seen here.. Wish I had mine here !!

it's not a CSI but due to the twin turbos it has 105 horse powers more than a CSI.

Will you adopt me.....please?

[ThaiPauly]

I brought a new BMW 325i 3 years ago.

its a fantastic machine.

Before I moved here I had a top of the range Benz 320, had a lot of trouble with it. luckily I managed to get a good price for it, the manager of Radiohead brought it off me for his wife as it was a convertible

Never had any problems with my car, except when rats chewed through all the cables while I was away for a month, all the new parts had to come from Germany and the bill was 60,000B, thats the downside of owning a car that attracts so much tax

Otherwise I love it, and will have no hesitation in buying another when mine gets older.

However one day I made a complete idiot of myself. I spent an hour looking for the dipstick to check the oil and could not find it. Looked at the manual and found out that its all controlled by the car's computer.

On that occassion it was me that was the dipstick

[Naam]

it's not a CSI but due to the twin turbos it has 105 horse powers more than a CSI.

Will you adopt me.....please?

take a number, join the queue and... be patient!

[Naam]

However one day I made a complete idiot of myself. I spent an hour looking for the dipstick to check the oil and could not find it. Looked at the manual and found out that its all controlled by the car's computer.

that's exactly what i hate. i prefer a dipstick, wiping it, dipping it again and cleaning my dirty fingers over some shitty computer which might show a correct result or might not.

[Thailaw]

From Edmonds Daily (edmonds.com):

Consumer Reports' 2010 auto reliability survey singles out Toyota and Honda and their affiliated brands for making the most reliable vehicles sold in the U.S. But the consumer organization said that vehicles from three vaunted German brands -- Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz -- are among the worst.

It seems that the quality of BMW and Merc are declining generally, and the case in Thailand is probably no different. Certainly, they are not worth the very high price that is charged for the German badge here -- end of story.

[Thailaw]

From Edmonds Daily (edmonds.com):

Consumer Reports' 2010 auto reliability survey singles out Toyota and Honda and their affiliated brands for making the most reliable vehicles sold in the U.S. But the consumer organization said that vehicles from three vaunted German brands -- Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz -- are among the worst.

It seems that the quality of BMW and Merc are declining generally, and the case in Thailand is probably no different. Certainly, they are not worth the very high price that is charged for the German badge here -- end of story.

If l could afford one, l would buy a Merc tomorrow, If the backup/service was available. Had a newish Merc in the UK in the past and it outclassed most l have tried for the money.

Not based on reliability figures (attached -- just slightly better than Dodge and Chrysler, ugh!). I assume that by "backup", you mean a spare car so that you can get around when the Merc is in the shop, which apparently is frequently ............

[phutoie2]

From Edmonds Daily (edmonds.com):

Consumer Reports' 2010 auto reliability survey singles out Toyota and Honda and their affiliated brands for making the most reliable vehicles sold in the U.S. But the consumer organization said that vehicles from three vaunted German brands -- Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz -- are among the worst.

It seems that the quality of BMW and Merc are declining generally, and the case in Thailand is probably no different. Certainly, they are not worth the very high price that is charged for the German badge here -- end of story.

If l could afford one, l would buy a Merc tomorrow, If the backup/service was available. Had a newish Merc in the UK in the past and it outclassed most l have tried for the money.

Not based on reliability figures (attached -- just slightly better than Dodge and Chrysler, ugh!). I assume that by "backup", you mean a spare car so that you can get around when the Merc is in the shop, which apparently is frequently ............

My E220CDI had 100,000 MILES on the clock. One injector and a diff pinion bearing replaced. Supper car.

Let me guess?, you used to eat your fish n chips in it!!!.

My supper car back in the 70's was a super Fiesta, never let me down!

[Naam]

From Edmonds Daily (edmonds.com):

Consumer Reports' 2010 auto reliability survey singles out Toyota and Honda and their affiliated brands for making the most reliable vehicles sold in the U.S. But the consumer organization said that vehicles from three vaunted German brands -- Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz -- are among the worst.

It seems that the quality of BMW and Merc are declining generally, and the case in Thailand is probably no different. Certainly, they are not worth the very high price that is charged for the German badge here -- end of story.

and the beginning of the story is that the very high price charged is out of reach of most bitching people

[katabeachbum]

From Edmonds Daily (edmonds.com):

Consumer Reports' 2010 auto reliability survey singles out Toyota and Honda and their affiliated brands for making the most reliable vehicles sold in the U.S. But the consumer organization said that vehicles from three vaunted German brands -- Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz -- are among the worst.

It seems that the quality of BMW and Merc are declining generally, and the case in Thailand is probably no different. Certainly, they are not worth the very high price that is charged for the German badge here -- end of story.

I dont think general quality is declining, its just so loaded with new edge hitech there are more parts to be broke. Like Audi, Jag, Range Rover, Aston Martin etc. Same suppliers, Hella, Bosch, ZF. The others wait 2-7 years bfore they spend money on these systems, and by then they are reliable.

Why do you think Hilux is one of the most reliable vehicles in the world? Simplicity and proven tech. Not even auto aircon

[katabeachbum]

From Edmonds Daily (edmonds.com):

Consumer Reports' 2010 auto reliability survey singles out Toyota and Honda and their affiliated brands for making the most reliable vehicles sold in the U.S. But the consumer organization said that vehicles from three vaunted German brands -- Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz -- are among the worst.

It seems that the quality of BMW and Merc are declining generally, and the case in Thailand is probably no different. Certainly, they are not worth the very high price that is charged for the German badge here -- end of story.

and the beginning of the story is that the very high price charged is out of reach of most bitching people

first of all parts and service is not available in most of Thailand, which is what puts me off the most. When my business in Phuket is completed, I plan to move to my other home in Hua Hin. a BMW E38 740 or a Jag XJ is on my list. Even 10 years old probably good enough for my weekly BKK trip. a 740iL in BKK post friday, a 2000 at 890k baht

on the other hand its only 2 hours early morning to Suvarnabhumi in Vigo, so why bother with old crap when Vigo always works?

[Thailaw]

From Edmonds Daily (edmonds.com):

Consumer Reports' 2010 auto reliability survey singles out Toyota and Honda and their affiliated brands for making the most reliable vehicles sold in the U.S. But the consumer organization said that vehicles from three vaunted German brands -- Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz -- are among the worst.

It seems that the quality of BMW and Merc are declining generally, and the case in Thailand is probably no different. Certainly, they are not worth the very high price that is charged for the German badge here -- end of story.

and the beginning of the story is that the very high price charged is out of reach of most bitching people

first of all parts and service is not available in most of Thailand, which is what puts me off the most. When my business in Phuket is completed, I plan to move to my other home in Hua Hin. a BMW E38 740 or a Jag XJ is on my list. Even 10 years old probably good enough for my weekly BKK trip. a 740iL in BKK post friday, a 2000 at 890k baht

on the other hand its only 2 hours early morning to Suvarnabhumi in Vigo, so why bother with old crap when Vigo always works?

I guess the cars (and their prices) need to "be within reach" before the issue of reliability even arises (for anything more than a purely academic exercise). Reliability is certainly one of the characteristics of a car on which I put a great value. I owned a Merc back in the US, and it was an expensive car to own and operate. I also had an Acura, and except for new tires and exhaust it didn't cost me a dime for 10 years (of course, it had less than 45,000 miles on it when I sold it -- I fly alot more than I drive). I certainly would not feel deprived in a new Accord or Camry, and for the relative price and relative quality (aka reliability), that is definitely the way I would/will go (also considering a Pajero, but that is another story). I am not in any way "bitching", but there are certainly ways I can enjoy myself (get a thrill) rather that buy/drive a car for which I pay 1/3 for the car and 2/3 for the tax, and then have to worry about reliability on top, regardless of whether I can afford it. I love turkey and always had turkey on X-mas back in the US. Here, I can have king prawns for the same price, which I like as much or more. So, here X-mas is prawns." When in Rome, do as the Romans do", and don't bitch (or move to Athens). Cheers,

[katabeachbum]

From Edmonds Daily (edmonds.com):

Consumer Reports' 2010 auto reliability survey singles out Toyota and Honda and their affiliated brands for making the most reliable vehicles sold in the U.S. But the consumer organization said that vehicles from three vaunted German brands -- Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz -- are among the worst.

It seems that the quality of BMW and Merc are declining generally, and the case in Thailand is probably no different. Certainly, they are not worth the very high price that is charged for the German badge here -- end of story.

and the beginning of the story is that the very high price charged is out of reach of most bitching people

first of all parts and service is not available in most of Thailand, which is what puts me off the most. When my business in Phuket is completed, I plan to move to my other home in Hua Hin. a BMW E38 740 or a Jag XJ is on my list. Even 10 years old probably good enough for my weekly BKK trip. a 740iL in BKK post friday, a 2000 at 890k baht

on the other hand its only 2 hours early morning to Suvarnabhumi in Vigo, so why bother with old crap when Vigo always works?

I guess the cars (and their prices) need to "be within reach" before the issue of reliability even arises (for anything more than a purely academic exercise). Reliability is certainly one of the characteristics of a car on which I put a great value. I owned a Merc back in the US, and it was an expensive car to own and operate. I also had an Acura, and except for new tires and exhaust it didn't cost me a dime for 10 years (of course, it had less than 45,000 miles on it when I sold it -- I fly alot more than I drive). I certainly would not feel deprived in a new Accord or Camry, and for the relative price and relative quality (aka reliability), that is definitely the way I would/will go (also considering a Pajero, but that is another story). I am not in any way "bitching", but there are certainly ways I can enjoy myself (get a thrill) rather that buy/drive a car for which I pay 1/3 for the car and 2/3 for the tax, and then have to worry about reliability on top, regardless of whether I can afford it. I love turkey and always had turkey on X-mas back in the US. Here, I can have king prawns for the same price, which I like as much or more. So, here X-mas is prawns." When in Rome, do as the Romans do", and don't bitch (or move to Athens). Cheers,

Early 2008 I wanted to replace my 2007 Camry 2,4 with a new car. Did calculations on hire purchase of Accord 2,4 at 1,5 mill baht and BMW 520D at +3 mill baht. due to 40% less fuel needed and lower fuel price for BMW, 70k km/year, and BMW 0% interest the figures wherent bad. But reliability and service/parts availablity south of BKK made me choose Accord. Seeing all those beemers on flatbeds going to and from BKK makes you wonder

Edited November 7, 2010 by katabeachbum

[mca]

Sorry to wander away from BMW and Merc but my folks just traded in their 10 year old Lexus GS400 for an IS 250 because they don't need such a big car.

That 400 had 130k miles on the clock and never missed a beat. Rock solid.

[siamcanuck]

I always find it amusing in threads like this when people take to bashing other people/cars etc the line "even if I had the money I would....." seems to come up so often. People will do what they want to do and have the means to do. It's really their money and their choice even if it means having a car that those people complaining think is overkill or doesn't make sense in LOS due to the high cost of this or that. What anybody else chooses to do with their money or to meet their transportation needs is none of my business and I would never presume to know better than them what suits their needs.

I also notice it tends to be the people that can't afford those German brands that complain about people buying them simply to show off etc... almost sounds like sour grapes IMHO.