I have always avoided these places all my life ,how they train elephants always involves if you make a mistake I will hurt you, but is my choice where I spend my money .

That's a new one on me, I've never seen a motorcycle riding a monkey...

I see monkeys riding motorcycles and even tuk tuks on Sukhumvit road everyday.

There are many elephant rescue centres in Chiang Mai all of which are crying out for donations. It is not cheap to feed and care for one of these intelligent creatures.

I live about 5 minutes from Safari World and the wife has been after me to go with the kids and now that i've seen this there is no way in hel_l that I will take them. I would rather spend that money and donate it to an Elephant rescue center if there is one.

Shock Horror.

Elephant walking 4 metres on 2 cables, turning around and then walking back.

On other shows I have seen such horrors as:

- Elephant riding a bicycle

- Elephant walking across 2 prone tourists

- Elephant dancing to disco music

- Elephant eating bananas

- Elephants being ridden by humans

- Elephant demonstrating how they used to help loggers in the past

Get a grip for heaven's sake.

It's not as if they are being flayed alive. The animals look healthy at these places. This is just liberal clap-trap from the UK.

Nothing wrong with these places at all.

You're kidding right? I unwittingly accompanied a Thai friend to Safari World a couple of years ago and was horrified by the state the animals were in. Thin, scabbed, unkempt.

But you sound the type who would have thought there was nothing wrong with Taksin's Chiang Mai Zoo's proposal to put some of the more exotic species on the menu.

I believe that the Thaksin idea had the full backing of PETA (People Eating Tasty Animals).

Yeah... and what about dolphins trained to jump 3 meters high, and parrots forced to speak human or riding mini tricycles....

...and Sarah Palin forced to walk on her hind legs and wear lipstick...

LOL

The abuse of trained elephants starts when they are babies

The "training crush" as the method is known is explained here:

http://ngm.nationalg...ure5/video.html

That's frigging awful. No wonder some of them get back at their handlers once their grown up (the elephants, not the handlers) and crush 'em on the ground. Well deserved!!!

Well so far on this thread I have seen no proof of a elephant walking on a wire being cruel.

There is how ever proof that some of the training methods are cruel. I in no way dispute that. I do how ever dispute that being cruel is the only way to train them. They have a lot more intelligence than a dog are people saying you can not train a dog with out being cruel to them?

Well so far on this thread I have seen no proof of a elephant walking on a wire being cruel.

I remember certain politicians saying torture didn't exist.

Well so far on this thread I have seen no proof of a elephant walking on a wire being cruel.

There is how ever proof that some of the training methods are cruel. I in no way dispute that. I do how ever dispute that being cruel is the only way to train them. They have a lot more intelligence than a dog are people saying you can not train a dog with out being cruel to them?

No, I didn't see anybody saying that you can not train a dog with being cruel to them???

This training IS how elephants are trained in Thailand and a lot of the world, although I don't know how African elephants are trained. The Elephant Nature Park is trying to encourage a reward-based training system but they have yet proven that it can be done. Even Lek herself has been quoted telling a Mahout to leave her camp and come back once the elephant has been trained. I repeat, this is the ONLY WAY THEY ARE TRAINED HERE.

Well so far on this thread I have seen no proof of a elephant walking on a wire being cruel.

I remember certain politicians saying torture didn't exist.

Read the whole post and then try to make a intelligent reply.

I was seriously hoping for some real informed feed back not the continues adnaosium reaffirmation of what has already been posted.

Edited November 6, 201015 yr by jayjay0

Well so far on this thread I have seen no proof of a elephant walking on a wire being cruel.

There is how ever proof that some of the training methods are cruel. I in no way dispute that. I do how ever dispute that being cruel is the only way to train them. They have a lot more intelligence than a dog are people saying you can not train a dog with out being cruel to them?

No, I didn't see anybody saying that you can not train a dog with being cruel to them???

This training IS how elephants are trained in Thailand and a lot of the world, although I don't know how African elephants are trained. The Elephant Nature Park is trying to encourage a reward-based training system but they have yet proven that it can be done. Even Lek herself has been quoted telling a Mahout to leave her camp and come back once the elephant has been trained. I repeat, this is the ONLY WAY THEY ARE TRAINED HERE.

Not sure of what you are saying. I was meaning to imply that a dog can be trained with out being cruel to it why not a elephant.

As for The Elephant Nature Park are you saying they tried to train them without being cruel to them and could not so they told the Mahout to take the elephant out of camp and come back when the elephant was trained.

Also there is the matter of ethics. If the elephant can not be trained to earn some money to feed and care for it should they be sent off into the Jungle to fend for themselves. Do nor say they could do this or that. They can not do it with out money. Any way you look at it this is a problem.

Well so far on this thread I have seen no proof of a elephant walking on a wire being cruel.

There is how ever proof that some of the training methods are cruel. I in no way dispute that. I do how ever dispute that being cruel is the only way to train them. They have a lot more intelligence than a dog are people saying you can not train a dog with out being cruel to them?

No, I didn't see anybody saying that you can not train a dog with being cruel to them???

This training IS how elephants are trained in Thailand and a lot of the world, although I don't know how African elephants are trained. The Elephant Nature Park is trying to encourage a reward-based training system but they have yet proven that it can be done. Even Lek herself has been quoted telling a Mahout to leave her camp and come back once the elephant has been trained. I repeat, this is the ONLY WAY THEY ARE TRAINED HERE.

Not sure of what you are saying. I was meaning to imply that a dog can be trained with out being cruel to it why not a elephant.

As for The Elephant Nature Park are you saying they tried to train them without being cruel to them and could not so they told the Mahout to take the elephant out of camp and come back when the elephant was trained.

Also there is the matter of ethics. If the elephant can not be trained to earn some money to feed and care for it should they be sent off into the Jungle to fend for themselves. Do nor say they could do this or that. They can not do it with out money. Any way you look at it this is a problem.

The ENP says that they support training without cruelty. BUT when Lek was hurt (minor) by a young elephant, she told the mahout to get his elephant out of her park and bring it back when its trained. She knows what that would imply. As I said, nobody trains elephants any other way here. I can not say "why" as I am no expert. Maybe they are too strong-minded, or maybe it could be done cruelty-free if someone understood elephants better but it hasn't been done. The bottom line is; to train an elephant to walk tight rope, it would require a lot of serious cruel abuse. "Why" is beside the point.

Your right, it is not a simple problem. Elephants need to earn money somehow to feed themselves. But every other elephant in Thailand seems to be getting by without this additional tight-rope training, so I am not going to support it.