Is Pattaya Going Downmarket?

[thaimate]

We all seem to be hearing about how Pattaya is going upmarket and how wonderfull the infastructure is (even if the resurfaced road in Sukhumvit south Pattaya has fallen to bits in the first four weeks) but all i see is at weekends vast amounts of Thai day trippers and the "Quality" tourists amounting to Russians with no money to Spend, Indians who want one bar girl to service the group for one fee and Korean and Chinese groups who all stick together.

last week the wife and I went for an evening walk down Walking street ,the first time in years and it was packed ,with people looking but not spending . my wife got talking to a woman who owned one of the tourist shops and she said she had never known it so bad.

So is all hunky dory or not?

[craigt3365]

Thai tourism is on the upswing for sure. Stop by the floating market this weekend. Global tourism is WAY down...and those who do travel, are spending way less. Plus, tourism is being promoted to the Indian and Chinese market...for sure lots more here in the past few years...and more will come in the future as their economies grow and prosper. 20 years ago I bet it was a rare thing to see a Russian/ex-soviet bloc tourist...now, they are everywhere!

[afarang]

Thai tourism is on the upswing for sure. Stop by the floating market this weekend. Global tourism is WAY down...and those who do travel, are spending way less. Plus, tourism is being promoted to the Indian and Chinese market...for sure lots more here in the past few years...and more will come in the future as their economies grow and prosper. 20 years ago I bet it was a rare thing to see a Russian/ex-soviet bloc tourist...now, they are everywhere!

The only "western" country ,that can afford to holiday overseas, is Australia. This year , they are not coming to Thailand. They are going on Mass to Bali.

[somtampet]

Whats that got to do with cheap charlie syndrome.It doesnt take the brains of brittain to say we may not have a high season this year due to many influences.

Not all russians dont spend,many have invested in property but they dont go to farang bars.

Not all indians go for a gang bang,they probably arent indians anyway

Pattaya has become more upmarket and the good restaraunts are busy,the thai restaraunts at weekends are bursting at the seams,because they have more money to spend,the Bangkok ones

[somtampet]

Thai tourism is on the upswing for sure. Stop by the floating market this weekend. Global tourism is WAY down...and those who do travel, are spending way less. Plus, tourism is being promoted to the Indian and Chinese market...for sure lots more here in the past few years...and more will come in the future as their economies grow and prosper. 20 years ago I bet it was a rare thing to see a Russian/ex-soviet bloc tourist...now, they are everywhere!

Thats what i was trying to say,but you explained it better Craig

good post

[craigt3365]

Whats that got to do with cheap charlie syndrome.It doesnt take the brains of brittain to say we may not have a high season this year due to many influences.

Not all russians dont spend,many have invested in property but they dont go to farang bars.

Not all indians go for a gang bang,they probably arent indians anyway

Pattaya has become more upmarket and the good restaraunts are busy,the thai restaraunts at weekends are bursting at the seams,because they have more money to spend,the Bangkok ones

Pattaya has become more upmarket for sure...mainly due to the BKK Thai's. I'm amazed at the hot cars I see here on the weekends. Ferrari's, Lambo's, Porche's, and of course lot of BMWs and Benz's. All with BKK plates...

My Thai friends who live in BKK all love to come here for the weekend. They think we are lucky to be able to live here. It's mostly the farangs who bad mouth Pattaya...and for some good reasons.

[gmac]

Whats that got to do with cheap charlie syndrome.It doesnt take the brains of brittain to say we may not have a high season this year due to many influences.

Not all russians dont spend,many have invested in property but they dont go to farang bars.

Not all indians go for a gang bang,they probably arent indians anyway

Pattaya has become more upmarket and the good restaraunts are busy,the thai restaraunts at weekends are bursting at the seams,because they have more money to spend,the Bangkok ones

Pattaya has become more upmarket for sure...mainly due to the BKK Thai's. I'm amazed at the hot cars I see here on the weekends. Ferrari's, Lambo's, Porche's, and of course lot of BMWs and Benz's. All with BKK plates...

My Thai friends who live in BKK all love to come here for the weekend. They think we are lucky to be able to live here. It's mostly the farangs who bad mouth Pattaya...and for some good reasons.

And one of those reasons would presumably be all the BKK Thais coming down at the weekends and clogging the roads with their high-class wheels?

[chops]

That's the problem. These package tourists come to walking street to gawk, but they never spend. Seems ridiculous. You come to Thailand on a holiday with your family() to where?? Pattaya of all places. And then when they come here they don't spend a Satang. Makes zero sense to me. Why don't they just stay home.

[smokie36]

That's the problem. These package tourists come to walking street to gawk, but they never spend. Seems ridiculous. You come to Thailand on a holiday with your family() to where?? Pattaya of all places. And then when they come here they don't spend a Satang. Makes zero sense to me. Why don't they just stay home.

Haha why shouldn't tourists be frugal? They go on holiday to visit a new place and relax. The local economy is of little concern to them. Nor should it become so either.

[siam2007]

Maybe the Beer-Bars suffer, but the regular shops certainly don't.

In my opinion it is a good thing for PTY to have plenty of local Weekend-trippers from BKK. and as we know, Thais just LOVE to "go shopping" and that's what they do in PTY as well.

Central can be PACKED TO THE GUTS on a sunday afternoon, almost same as Mall Bangkapi or Central Lat Phrao. And most of the shoppers are Thais.

As for the Russians, there are a lot of statistics out there and they all show that Russian do spend quite well compared to other nationalities.

As for Indians / Chinese: I assume Pattaya may appear as some kind of a "culture-shock" to them first, and they for sure will not spend money in Bars, but rather shop or spend money in restaurants. Indians, as is known all over the world, are the "bargain-hunters" number 1 on this planet (and - most hoteliers and shop-owners will confirm that - the complainers number 1 as well).

I don't see a trend to more "Cheap Charlies". it's rather a change in clientel, and it with no doubt will continue like that.

after all, PTY wa always some kind of "Cheap Charlie - place".

cost of living is still very reasonable. or did you ever try to hop on public transport for as low as 10 Baht in Samui or Patong Beach ? Did you find sumptuous breakfast buffets for as low as 119 Bat at those places (or in BKK) as you can find in PTY ? Hardly......

"the times, they are a-changing...."

[Tolley]

By going downmarket I presume you mean the replacement of many of Britain's finest ( ) and the dregs of the rest of Europe with Russian families and package tourists from Asia.

I can definitely see how harmful that could be for Pattaya's image

[waza]

Pats will continue evolve to current needs of its tourist. I see many beer bars closing and more upmarket Hotels and shop opening. I wonder if we will live to see the day the last beer bar or gogo closes?

[FarangBuddha]

My Thai friends who live in BKK all love to come here for the weekend. They think we are lucky to be able to live here. It's mostly the farangs who bad mouth Pattaya...and for some good reasons.

When I lived in Bangers, me and my friends would come to Pattaya at every opportunity. Anything to get away from the chaos of the big city for a few days.

[sillyman99]

I have a Condo in WongAmart, it's a booming area with many Russian Tourists, many are with Families,and many young Russian couples, and some of the Russian women are beautiful and the Russian guys with them would be going well down market if they went to a beer bar in walking street.

They're are here and spending money too, maybe just not in Farang beer bars.

Edited November 12, 2010 by sillyman99

[craigt3365]

That's the problem. These package tourists come to walking street to gawk, but they never spend. Seems ridiculous. You come to Thailand on a holiday with your family() to where?? Pattaya of all places. And then when they come here they don't spend a Satang. Makes zero sense to me. Why don't they just stay home.

That's the problem with package tourists. They tend to be on the lower end, and since everything is paid for, don't spend that much...and many just don't have that much to spend. Probably barely scraped up the cash to pay for 2 package tours here? I know many years ago I went on a package tour. Since everything was included, we rarely left the hotel to eat or drink out at other places.

I read a report on packaged tourists in China. They come from the interior on cheap package tours to, say, Beijing or Hong Kong. The tour operators actually sell the packages at a discount hoping to make some cash on what they buy in the shops where they get a cut of the action. Problem is, many don't spend a dime.

By going downmarket I presume you mean the replacement of many of Britain's finest ( ) and the dregs of the rest of Europe with Russian families and package tourists from Asia.

I can definitely see how harmful that could be for Pattaya's image

Good one!

[doggie888888]

Does one need to check in at the salubrious Shagwell Inn, spend countless hours drinking to oblivion on Soi BuaKhao, trawl the classy Walking Street or Soi6, and chase several bar girls to avoid being labelled a cheap charlie?

My recent experiences: Tiffanny shows, parasailing, floating restaurant, floating garden, Nong Nooch, Pullman Asiawan, Montien, Dusit Thani are FULL of Chinese and Russians; signs are popping up in Russian and Chinese; estate agents are putting on Russian & Chinese speaking staff, massage girl on Wongamat Beach can speak Russian...the examples are numerous. Surely if we are to believe the stereotype of cheap Russians, Indians and Chinese, these people will be ignored completely. Perhaps on an individual spend they may rate differently but as a group they do have some collective purchasing power.

I think there is some "resentment" amongst the old timers that they are being ignored as Pattaya chases the new money, hence the labelling of non-English speaking tourists as cheap or undesirable? One other thread bemoans the outrageous prices at Central and yet the other day at Zara, I had to queue at the cashier behind several Russians!!! Sure the traditional watering holes and dives frequented by the cheap charlies of the past may be suffering but the newer players (and those open minded enough to adapt) are not complaining too much I think.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

Does one need to check in at the salubrious Shagwell Inn, spend countless hours drinking to oblivion on Soi BuaKhao, trawl the classy Walking Street or Soi6, and chase several bar girls to avoid being labelled a cheap charlie?

My recent experiences: Tiffanny shows, parasailing, floating restaurant, floating garden, Nong Nooch, Pullman Asiawan, Montien, Dusit Thani are FULL of Chinese and Russians; signs are popping up in Russian and Chinese; estate agents are putting on Russian & Chinese speaking staff, massage girl on Wongamat Beach can speak Russian...the examples are numerous. Surely if we are to believe the stereotype of cheap Russians, Indians and Chinese, these people will be ignored completely. Perhaps on an individual spend they may rate differently but as a group they do have some collective purchasing power.

I think there is some "resentment" amongst the old timers that they are being ignored as Pattaya chases the new money, hence the labelling of non-English speaking tourists as cheap or undesirable? One other thread bemoans the outrageous prices at Central and yet the other day at Zara, I had to queue at the cashier behind several Russians!!! Sure the traditional watering holes and dives frequented by the cheap charlies of the past may be suffering but the newer players (and those open minded enough to adapt) are not complaining too much I think.

Thank you for saving me the trouble.

Perhaps the characters that you describe in your last paragraph imagine that they are the 'upmarket' element.

[Ohio]

Here Here

[thaimate]

I cant really comment on the bars as i very rarely go there ,but from what i see ,yes Central is packed ,with people looking ,Tesco Lotus does a roaring trade in cheap clothes to the Russians and Other nations. but friends who have shops and buisnesses say that people are not spending ,just looking .

when i said downmarket earlier i didnt mean it in a derogatory way ,but all we hear is about high end tourists and how Pattaya is going Hi So, well its more like Benidorm than Bangkok , as i see it just package tour holiday makers on all in "packages " going to all the attractions by coach and buying very little.

[sillyman99]

Pattaya falling into a cheap charlie abyss ? No way !

Holiday Inn, Pullman , Sheraton and Hilton groups would disagree, this investment by some of the worlds leading quality hotel chains is quite recent, and I'm sure the people entrusted to manage the investments of these multinationals are pretty good at their jobs and have done their homework, so why did they choose Pattaya ?

However much it may irk those who don't live in Pattaya or those that struggle by on meagre funds in a 3000 Baht per month room in Soi Exzyte, or those that just can't stand the fact that Pattaya can attract people outside the stereotypes they imagine all visitors to Pattaya to be, Pattaya is in fact, in an ascendancy.

Yes there are run down areas that cater to the budget conscious people, Soi Chaiyaphum for example, and I was there myself only a few days ago at Canterbury Tales for some books, but the lack of a paved road makes the whole road look really bad, take that with impossible parking, it's not very apealing to people who are here on holiday.

Put those same Tourists on Wong Amat beach, they'll think totally different.

[tropo]

The only "western" country ,that can afford to holiday overseas, is Australia. This year , they are not coming to Thailand. They are going on Mass to Bali.

LOL. They're always going enmass to Bali because of it's close proximity and they feel at home drinking with all the other Aussies.

To say that Australians aren't feeling the pinch is just not true. Times are hard for them too.

[tropo]

,but all we hear is about high end tourists and how Pattaya is going Hi So,

Pattaya is not going "upmarket" or "downmarket". Pattaya is staying where it is and covering all markets. It's the diversity that makes it popular.

[toenail]

I find it interesting how some "old timers" will judge how successful tourism is in Pattaya by the amount of clients in a bar. It is a fact, there are less single men from North American and Europe flying to Pattaya for a man's holiday here. Yes, some bars on Walking street, on the side sois, and in Jomtien have closed. Meanwhile there are other venues that are doing quite well, the tourist attractions (mentioned earlier) and with the international hotels and the building of Central, it has drawn in the BKK crowd as well, Many of my Thai freinds find it enjoyable to come to Pattaya on the weekend for an escape. Truel, they stay away from Walking Street and Beach Road like the plague, the basicall lay around the 5 star hotel's swimming pool, go shopping , take in a movie, and hit a nice restaurant.

[moo9]

I find it interesting how some "old timers" will judge how successful tourism is in Pattaya by the amount of clients in a bar. It is a fact, there are less single men from North American and Europe flying to Pattaya for a man's holiday here. Yes, some bars on Walking street, on the side sois, and in Jomtien have closed. Meanwhile there are other venues that are doing quite well, the tourist attractions (mentioned earlier) and with the international hotels and the building of Central, it has drawn in the BKK crowd as well, Many of my Thai freinds find it enjoyable to come to Pattaya on the weekend for an escape. Truel, they stay away from Walking Street and Beach Road like the plague, the basicall lay around the 5 star hotel's swimming pool, go shopping , take in a movie, and hit a nice restaurant.

Yeah Thai style holiday, travelling doing nothing...

Did you notice though what special rates all the Hi End Hotels are offering. Judging from the huge discounts, their business is down.

Pattaya always earned it's money by farangs. If they won't come....what then?

I don't see any tourist attractions, I am not into artifical Floating markets or childish thinks like elephant riding. To me the question reamins, what should make Pattaya attractve, if not the entertainment industry. Not much....

Cheers

[SantiSuk]

^ "Pattaya always earned it's money by farangs. If they won't come....what then?"

Somebody buy him another beer quick - I fear he may be a balcony jumper soon.

[wileycoyote]

It's becoming polarised between those on fixed budgets & those who have money to spend ,rather than on the country you come from

[thaibeachlovers]

Pats will continue evolve to current needs of its tourist. I see many beer bars closing and more upmarket Hotels and shop opening. I wonder if we will live to see the day the last beer bar or gogo closes?

That's hardly likely. Even Hua Hin has a few bar beers. What's more probable is that they will move from/ be forced out of Beach and Second Rds into other areas eg Soi Buakhao area and Third Rd. Walking St would likely survive, though it might suffer the same fate as Singapore's Bugis St.

That wouldn't be a problem for most mongers, I'm sure, as the beach isn't what they come to see.

[Tolley]

The only "western" country ,that can afford to holiday overseas, is Australia. This year , they are not coming to Thailand. They are going on Mass to Bali.

LOL. They're always going enmass to Bali because of it's close proximity and they feel at home drinking with all the other Aussies.

To say that Australians aren't feeling the pinch is just not true. Times are hard for them too.

.

Australia has a bit of a two speed economy at the moment so there are some people creaming it especially those in the resource sector and those that aren't in the resource sector are not doing as well.

Still compared to Europe and the US Australia is doing very well and of course the Aussie dollar is high.

[craigt3365]

Went out last night for drinks at Dusit D2 and then a bite to eat at Central Festival. D2 was dead...as was the entire Dusit hotel. We wanted to eat there, but not a single customer.

At Central, there were a bunch of farang couple tourists....and some really hot gals. Gives us something else to look at. Both men and women were very well dressed and eating and shopping.

I even saw an Indian/Pakistani couple buying some stuff from one of those carts.

[cardholder]

,but all we hear is about high end tourists and how Pattaya is going Hi So,

Pattaya is not going "upmarket" or "downmarket". Pattaya is staying where it is and covering all markets. It's the diversity that makes it popular.

I imagine Pattaya will evolve to meet it's changing market.

I still don't see it as a family resort destination