Is Pattaya Going Downmarket?

[tropo]

In another thread you mentioned you cant afford a higher monthly rent than 21,000 baht but you pay 15,000 for a suite ?

You're totally confused.

Where did I say I paid 15,000 for a suite? Read my post again, more slowly.

Where did I say I cannot afford to pay more than 21,000 baht per month? In that post I said I could pay more if the place was up to scratch.

[Ulysses G.]

If I paid over 2,000 baht for a single room in Thailand, I would hate myself.

You can get a clean, comfortable place near the beach with air-con, cable TV, a fridge and a swimming pool for a little over 500 baht in Pattaya if you look. Some people must have money to burn.

[Tolley]

If any of you guys have stayed at the Sheraton Pattaya you would realise that there are plenty of people who are prepared to pay big money for hotel rooms in Pattaya.

They are often full and their rooms are quite expensive. 10k a night when i stayed there a few years ago.

But then you get what you pay for it is quite luxurious with great views, great apartments, great service and great food.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

If I paid over 2,000 baht for a single room in Thailand, I would hate myself.

You can get a clean, comfortable place near the beach with air-con, cable TV, a fridge and a swimming pool for a little over 500 baht in Pattaya if you look. Some people must have money to burn.

I regularly spend more than that. People have standards that they wish to maintain and exceed.

Perhaps someone living in a cramped bedsit in their country would be happy living in a 500 baht room above a bar in Pattaya. Perhaps not.

I can imagine even a modest family would like to push the boat out for their two week holiday and splash out on a nice place.

Someone living in a nice place in their country would certainly have little interest in staying in a pokey little room in Pattaya.

The exception to this is if the place has something special to offer. For instance, I am happy to stay in a basic bungalow when it is located on the sands of a beautiful island.

But in Pattaya, there is all the more need to have decent accommodation. For me that means an apartment with a separate living room and kitchen area, proximity to the sea(with a sea view), outside space et cetera.

Another exception to this is if you are travelling/backpacking and just need a place to lay your head. But if it's actually your holiday accommodation, Pattaya must have a really strong pull on you if you are willing to stay in a pokey little room with few mod cons.

You should think about it. Who actually stays in these rooms that you describe? There is a low, a middle and a high end.

Not everyone has nor wants the same experience as someone staying in a 500 baht room.

[Naam]

If I paid over 2,000 baht for a single room in Thailand, I would hate myself.

You can get a clean, comfortable place near the beach with air-con, cable TV, a fridge and a swimming pool for a little over 500 baht in Pattaya if you look. Some people must have money to burn.

the Grand Palace bungalows in Naklua are very comfortable and even slightly cheaper. price includes american breakfast and daily massage

[craigt3365]

If I paid over 2,000 baht for a single room in Thailand, I would hate myself.

You can get a clean, comfortable place near the beach with air-con, cable TV, a fridge and a swimming pool for a little over 500 baht in Pattaya if you look. Some people must have money to burn.

I stayed at the Banyan Tree Resort in Phuket last year. Pool villa. Unreal. They even brought a BBQ out for us so we could cook by the pool and enjoy the view of the lake. Amazing resort. Expensive, but worth it. IMHO. Wifey liked it also!

[tropo]

If I paid over 2,000 baht for a single room in Thailand, I would hate myself.

You can get a clean, comfortable place near the beach with air-con, cable TV, a fridge and a swimming pool for a little over 500 baht in Pattaya if you look. Some people must have money to burn.

I think the minimum standards for people who live comfortably back at home is 1000 baht per night. I regularly book rooms for friends visiting and that's the lowest I go, but usually it's a bit more. $30 for an hotel room is hardly splashing out.

[waza]

Hmmm interesting that you sing the praises of multinational corporations that develope and own these resorts and shopping centers. They add very little to the charm of Pattaya or its local economy. I think that Pattaya lets itself down, not because of the resorts, bars, gogos and resturaunts, they add spice, but because the lack of infastruture. The poor drainage, poor roads, the spagetti thats they call a power system and the polluted beaches, make a statement and that statement is we are not a world class tourist destination.

[Tolley]

Hmmm interesting that you sing the praises of multinational corporations that develope and own these resorts and shopping centers. They add very little to the charm of Pattaya or its local economy. I think that Pattaya lets itself down, not because of the resorts, bars, gogos and resturaunts, they add spice, but because the lack of infastruture. The poor drainage, poor roads, the spagetti thats they call a power system and the polluted beaches, make a statement and that statement is we are not a world class tourist destination.

It is the government or council's responsibility to provide basic services like sanitation, roads, sewerage etc and also the governments role to enforce any laws or regulations that affect health, safety etc

I don't think anywhere in Thailand can really lay claim to being a world class tourist destination if you are using infrastructure as you measurement stick.

Edited November 19, 2010 by Tolley

[FarangBuddha]

If any of you guys have stayed at the Sheraton Pattaya you would realise that there are plenty of people who are prepared to pay big money for hotel rooms in Pattaya.

They are often full and their rooms are quite expensive. 10k a night when i stayed there a few years ago.

But then you get what you pay for it is quite luxurious with great views, great apartments, great service and great food.

I have a friend who stays there regularly and often invites me over. While the villa-suites are nice, the regular hotel rooms are nothing special for the rates they charge. As for the food, typical hotel food...meaning not very good in my opinion. Nice pool and views, however.

[FarangBuddha]

Hmmm interesting that you sing the praises of multinational corporations that develope and own these resorts and shopping centers. They add very little to the charm of Pattaya or its local economy.

My understanding is that most (if not just about all) of the high-end hotels, resorts, and certainly the shopping centers like Central, are developed and owned by rich Thais and/or Thai companies. The Western brand names they sport are just brought in to manage the hotels and market them through their reservations networks.

[craigt3365]

Hmmm interesting that you sing the praises of multinational corporations that develope and own these resorts and shopping centers. They add very little to the charm of Pattaya or its local economy. I think that Pattaya lets itself down, not because of the resorts, bars, gogos and resturaunts, they add spice, but because the lack of infastruture. The poor drainage, poor roads, the spagetti thats they call a power system and the polluted beaches, make a statement and that statement is we are not a world class tourist destination.

As mentioned before, poor infrastructure is a problem all over Thailand, not just here in Pattaya. And is a major problem in most of Asia.

I would prefer to see a Central Festival mall rather than 2 sois of beer bars...which for sure don't add to the charm of Pattaya. Plenty of them already. I would think for sure that Central Festival added lots of new jobs over those who were pushed out during development.

I love Thailand, but nowhere in this country is a truly world class tourist destination. And some prefer it that way!

[doggie888888]

If any of you guys have stayed at the Sheraton Pattaya you would realise that there are plenty of people who are prepared to pay big money for hotel rooms in Pattaya.

They are often full and their rooms are quite expensive. 10k a night when i stayed there a few years ago.

But then you get what you pay for it is quite luxurious with great views, great apartments, great service and great food.

I have a friend who stays there regularly and often invites me over. While the villa-suites are nice, the regular hotel rooms are nothing special for the rates they charge. As for the food, typical hotel food...meaning not very good in my opinion. Nice pool and views, however.

Precisely. Sheraton is well known but the luxury end of the Starwood group are the likes of St Regis and Le Meridien, both of which have presumably decided Pattaya is not quite the place for these brands yet.

Similarly Hilton, also well known and no doubt world class, is not the luxury end of the group. Their top brand is Conrad or WaldorfAstoria, I think. Even the old Marriot here is missing the JW.

We don't see the likes of Banyan Tree or the Anantara or the Oberoi wanting to open here, do we?

I am not knocking Pattaya...it just does not need to pretend to be something it is not.

If they really want to be upmarket, just start at the basics ie cleaner beaches and less seediness please. Just don't issue overhyped PR that Pattaya is suddenly "upmarket" simply becasue a Hilton opens here whilst at its doorsteps there are ladyboys robbing clients, jetski scams aplenty, streetwalkers galore and a decidedly downmarket beach.

Sure, Pattaya is more upmarket these days but the reality is that it's hard to shake off the seediness label (not that it needs to, if they are comfortable with it).

[OLDAUSSIE]

Pattaya is finished as a tourist destination.

Now watch all the bar owners, Real estate agents jump in and say ITS THE BEST HIGH SEASON EVER.

[tropo]

Hmmm interesting that you sing the praises of multinational corporations that develope and own these resorts and shopping centers. They add very little to the charm of Pattaya or its local economy. I think that Pattaya lets itself down, not because of the resorts, bars, gogos and resturaunts, they add spice, but because the lack of infastruture. The poor drainage, poor roads, the spagetti thats they call a power system and the polluted beaches, make a statement and that statement is we are not a world class tourist destination.

I never once considered "charm" when referring to Pattaya. Could you be more specific about this "charm"?

Quality resorts and shopping centres add diversity, which is a very good thing. A lot of people forget how young this resort town is. Infrastructure takes time.

[thaimate]

ITS THE BEST HIGH SEASON EVER , just joking i dont run anything just write threads ,this one seems to be running well , I love Pattaya have done for 20 years ,but as ive said before you can put lipstick on a pig ,but its still a pig.

but then guys ,would we have our town any other way .

as my gran used to say ,"ALL FUR COAT AND NO NICKERS"

Edited November 19, 2010 by thaimate

[tropo]

If they really want to be upmarket, just start at the basics ie cleaner beaches and less seediness please. Just don't issue overhyped PR that Pattaya is suddenly "upmarket" simply becasue a Hilton opens here whilst at its doorsteps there are ladyboys robbing clients, jetski scams aplenty, streetwalkers galore and a decidedly downmarket beach.

This thread is titled "Is Pattaya going downmarket". Who said Pattaya "wants to be upmarket"? Pattaya is diversifying by adding upper end resorts.

[thaimate]

If they really want to be upmarket, just start at the basics ie cleaner beaches and less seediness please. Just don't issue overhyped PR that Pattaya is suddenly "upmarket" simply becasue a Hilton opens here whilst at its doorsteps there are ladyboys robbing clients, jetski scams aplenty, streetwalkers galore and a decidedly downmarket beach.

This thread is titled "Is Pattaya going downmarket". Who said Pattaya "wants to be upmarket"? Pattaya is diversifying by adding upper end resorts.

But no upper end tourists,or if they are they are keeping off the streets.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

If they really want to be upmarket, just start at the basics ie cleaner beaches and less seediness please. Just don't issue overhyped PR that Pattaya is suddenly "upmarket" simply becasue a Hilton opens here whilst at its doorsteps there are ladyboys robbing clients, jetski scams aplenty, streetwalkers galore and a decidedly downmarket beach.

This thread is titled "Is Pattaya going downmarket". Who said Pattaya "wants to be upmarket"? Pattaya is diversifying by adding upper end resorts.

But no upper end tourists,or if they are they are keeping off the streets.

They'll pop into town for a bit of shopping and then they are off again. I don't know about 'upper end' To be fair, central Pattaya doesn't have much to offer the high end tourist. Perhaps to Central for a spot of shopping and a tour of the local markets for some exotic fruit and the 'local' experience.

Stay at the Hilton and you can do your shopping whilst hardly having to mix with the hoi polloi at all. How would you know that you were looking at a higher end tourist??

So often, you'll see a darker lady carrying the shopping and perhaps controlling the children. Why on earth would you expect them to be seen on the streets getting hot and bothered and worse still, tanned?

Edited November 19, 2010 by Rimmer

[smokie36]

I can't help but smile at 15k a night in Pattaya tropo. I paid 17k a night on Koh Racha last year for a fantastic room but I can't imagine why I would in Pattaya. What is the draw there at the price I wonder?

I mean at that price you can have a luxury hotel in a much more picturesque spot...and with more privacy and peace and quiet.

Perhaps I didn't want to travel. I could also go back to my home country of NZ for spectacular views if I wish.

The point is this is one example of a 5 star hotel doing very well.

The room was fantastic and the view spectacular. It has north view over the bay with its own private beach. Here's 2 photos taken from the balcony of my room. There's no sense of being in Pattaya at this hotel.

Looks a nice place but this is the place I was comparing with. Also consider water quality for swimming snorkelling etc.

[tropo]

I can't help but smile at 15k a night in Pattaya tropo. I paid 17k a night on Koh Racha last year for a fantastic room but I can't imagine why I would in Pattaya. What is the draw there at the price I wonder?

I mean at that price you can have a luxury hotel in a much more picturesque spot...and with more privacy and peace and quiet.

Perhaps I didn't want to travel. I could also go back to my home country of NZ for spectacular views if I wish.

The point is this is one example of a 5 star hotel doing very well.

The room was fantastic and the view spectacular. It has north view over the bay with its own private beach. Here's 2 photos taken from the balcony of my room. There's no sense of being in Pattaya at this hotel.

Looks a nice place but this is the place I was comparing with. Also consider water quality for swimming snorkelling etc.

We're discussing the merits of hotels in Pattaya. A lot of people don't want to be stuck on a cosy tropical island and other people prefer more convenient locations.

[smokie36]

I can't help but smile at 15k a night in Pattaya tropo. I paid 17k a night on Koh Racha last year for a fantastic room but I can't imagine why I would in Pattaya. What is the draw there at the price I wonder?

I mean at that price you can have a luxury hotel in a much more picturesque spot...and with more privacy and peace and quiet.

Perhaps I didn't want to travel. I could also go back to my home country of NZ for spectacular views if I wish.

The point is this is one example of a 5 star hotel doing very well.

The room was fantastic and the view spectacular. It has north view over the bay with its own private beach. Here's 2 photos taken from the balcony of my room. There's no sense of being in Pattaya at this hotel.

Looks a nice place but this is the place I was comparing with. Also consider water quality for swimming snorkelling etc.

We're discussing the merits of hotels in Pattaya. A lot of people don't want to be stuck on a cosy tropical island and other people prefer more convenient locations.

I understand that. On that basis I can't understand why anyone would pay more than a reasonable high end of 5-8000 Baht a night. Anything double that is a top quality hotel.

Difficult to see anywhere in Pattaya is worth that....same as most oher resorts in Thailand.

[craigt3365]

Pattaya is finished as a tourist destination.

Now watch all the bar owners, Real estate agents jump in and say ITS THE BEST HIGH SEASON EVER.

I don't think that is true. Pattaya is not finished. Ridiculous statement. But will it be a blockbuster high season? No way. The world economy is in the dumps. Most major tourist destinations are hurting. But the high season is coming. We live across from the Ambassador. We eat across from the hotel about once every week. Last night, it was hopping. Most tourists I've seen in a long time. And some good eye candy too! Keep those Russian's coming!

Here's some headlines:

Aruba Tourism Down Again Due to Global Economy

UNITED NATIONS—The U.N. World Tourism Organization says international tourism fell 8 percent between January and April compared to the same period last year, blaming the global financial crisis and the swine flu outbreak. Europe had the highest decline at 10 percent, followed by Asia and the Pacific at 6 percent and the Americas at 5 percent. The South American sub-region posted a slight increase of .2 percent.

However, expenditure on Travel & Tourism is still well down on its 2008 peak and the pace of recovery in 2011 is likely to be slower than previously forecast. Western consumers continue to pay down debt and many developed economies move to tighten fiscal policy.

[moo9]

Put a Marriott somewhere and wait how fast the competitors will be following. That is what happened in Pattaya. Not really due diligence, just being present in case.

If it not works, it's a potential write off or downgrade to a cheaper branch/brand.

Pattaya always had it's charm from the open beer bars, the night life etc. - all the newcomers might not know the "good old times", but all the growth has been built upon this.

I wonder how people can discuss the upmarket thing. Where are the tourists nowadays are coming from? Certainly not upmarket and those silly plans and projects are only kicking out the usual Pattaya tourist. Keep the luxury thing for Phuket, Hua Hin etc.

Edited November 20, 2010 by moo9

[tropo]

I understand that. On that basis I can't understand why anyone would pay more than a reasonable high end of 5-8000 Baht a night. Anything double that is a top quality hotel.

Difficult to see anywhere in Pattaya is worth that....same as most oher resorts in Thailand.

I wasn't talking about a regular room, but a special suite. Most hotels have special suites where you pay double or more the standard room rates.

Your assessment on what is worth what is a personal opinion. You prefer isolated tropical beaches, others prefer the convenience of being in a city. By the same token, you would consider any city based 5 star hotel a waste of money, yet most cities, no matter how unpleasant, have 5 star hotels.

Edited November 20, 2010 by tropo

[Danlo]

I am surprised people complain about small details like pot holes and such like, I tend to look at the big picture and compare say England to Thailand, 3 of the big issues for me are the climate in UK, the price of everything, the crap/bulls#*t/red tape, trading standards/do gooders/council tax/wheely bin inspectors/traffic wardens/tax man/government/ex wife/xmas/politics/immigrants/people in general.

Sorry thats more than 3 things but the weather here in Thailand is great, the food/people are great, should I mention the girls.................so guys look at the big picture and not a few puddles sometimes and a few pot holes, walk round them its easy.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

I am surprised people complain about small details like pot holes and such like, I tend to look at the big picture and compare say England to Thailand, 3 of the big issues for me are the climate in UK, the price of everything, the crap/bulls#*t/red tape, trading standards/do gooders/council tax/wheely bin inspectors/traffic wardens/tax man/government/ex wife/xmas/politics/immigrants/people in general.

Sorry thats more than 3 things but the weather here in Thailand is great, the food/people are great, should I mention the girls.................so guys look at the big picture and not a few puddles sometimes and a few pot holes, walk round them its easy.

From whence did you....?

This thread is about Pattaya.

[121Advice]

I have several Russian & Ukrainian friends (and clients) who (even with the resources available online) have relied upon glossy travel brochures 'back home' when planning their holiday and have actually been quite shocked upon arriving in Pattaya. Seasoned travellers are fully aware of what Pattaya "is" (or has been) but prior to 1990 the eastern block countries found it very difficult to travel internationally due to exit restrictions. There is a 'learning curve' going on with many Russian tourists, many of which have been attracted to Pattaya because the package deals are far cheaper than those available in Phuket and Krabi etc. Islands are ALWAYS more pricey and unless you are a wealthy Expat you will tend to favour somewhere suburban like Pattaya.

Pattaya is what Pattaya is. The demographic of the Pattaya tourist HAS changed as has the wealth of the ASEAN. Emerging Markets HAVE EMERGED and it is wealthy Thai's that are buying second homes in Pattaya NOT Ferrang. Blame the exchange rate, blame the inflated property prices or whatever, but the fact is that Ferrang are become the underdogs and many don't like the fact that they are not the only ones with money anymore!

I have been coming to Pattaya for 20 years and run 3 successful business in Thailand and of course 'progress' comes at a price. Thai's have become 'westernised' greedier and overweight (OK, not all but I never did see a fat Thai 20 years ago?) and I guess Thailand still is the "Land of Smiles" but now - Only if you've got money!

My wife is from the Philippines and whenever I visit there although as a lazy Englishman I like the fact everything is written in English, I am ALWAYS grateful to return to Pattaya as in the main the overall cost of living and facilities/infrastructure is difficult to beat. I am not wealthy, enjoy my creature comforts and baht for baht Pattaya still scores highly as an affordable place to have as a base.

My only regret is that there is a notable aggression appearing in more and more people in Pattaya. Maybe it is just me getting a little older and a little more paranoid, but perhaps some western 'attitude' is creeping in where once the Thai's simply laughed everything off?

As a financial specialist I would say that from a professional standpoint Pattaya (and Thailand in general) has not for some time afforded particularly good value for money property wise and I fully concur with those who simply opt to rent. After all, if the neighbour from hel_l moves in next door or your view is suddenly obscured (aka View Talay 7 type building permissions!!) YOU CAN UP STICKS AND MOVE! OK, I have wandered off the point in question. Pattaya has always been a bit down market hasn't it? Not the Malls or Hiltons - just the whole foundation of what it was built on. History is what it is - I have no issue with Pattaya or its past but I do feel sorry for those who have saved all year for a dream holiday and come here expecting it to be Monte Carlo.

[tropo]

Sorry thats more than 3 things but the weather here in Thailand is great,

I suppose this depends on what you're used to, but for me the hot, tropical weather in Thailand is terrible.

[craigt3365]

Sorry thats more than 3 things but the weather here in Thailand is great,

I suppose this depends on what you're used to, but for me the hot, tropical weather in Thailand is terrible.

For sure, but it is really bad only mid april to june or so. Other than that, it's not too bad.

Spoke with my friends back home. 1 foot of snow and -3C. Gotta be a happy medium somewhere!