Is Pattaya Going Downmarket?

[tropo]

. I agree with the OP, you can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig! Sooowwweee!!! Upmarket it will never be!

You totally missed the point. Pattaya does not pretend to be an upmarket holiday resort but it does cover all ends of the market from slum accommodation to top end 5 star.

Why does this have to become an argument about Pattaya being upmarket?

[tropo]

I think you can say the same thing about all of Thailand. It's a third world country.

Anyone who thinks Thailand is "3rd world" needs to travel a bit. You could start with Indonesia, Cambodia, Burma and the Philippines...then head of to Africa.

[sillyman99]

Get off your High Horses and read my posts or has ignorance made you blind. No where did I slagg Pattaya off. I live here and like living here, warts and all, but it is no Monte Carlo or Cannes. I would no more like to live in those places than I would Nakhon Nowhere, it's a great place to live and has many good points.

If you really believe Pattaya is a true five star world class resort then I suggest you either stop drinking or keep out of the sun as it is affecting your judgement.

Right, like you've lived in Monte Carlo and Cannes,

Edited November 14, 2010 by Rimmer
Flame

[sillyman99]

I think you can say the same thing about all of Thailand. It's a third world country.

Anyone who thinks Thailand is "3rd world" needs to travel a bit. You could start with Indonesia, Cambodia, Burma and the Philippines...then head of to Africa.

I find it absolutely incredible that Farangs are so ignorant, they harp on about Thailand like they are worldly wise travellers, comparing Thailand with ????

Compare Thailand with ???? There you go, tell me, what country do you compare Thailand with ?

UK, USA, Japan, Singapore, France, Italy, Spain, Germany, Switzerland, No ?

So tell me where you compare Thailand with, Thailand, the country you choose to stay in, why do you suffer ?

Idiots, you have no experience whatsoever,

If I didn't like living in Pattaya, guess what I would do ?

Yep, you got it, I'd leave Pattaya, wow, rocket science it ain't !!

Why on earth you people stay in Pattaya when you don't like it beats me.

Probably broke and have no choice, so you'd be unhappy anywhere wouldn't you ?

Edited November 14, 2010 by Rimmer
Multiple flames

[Jiu-Jitsu]

I think you can say the same thing about all of Thailand. It's a third world country.

Anyone who thinks Thailand is "3rd world" needs to travel a bit. You could start with Indonesia, Cambodia, Burma and the Philippines...then head of to Africa.

These.....

You'll be lucky to not get a warning for that unwarranted rant. You need to calm down.

[idiot farang]

The only "western" country ,that can afford to holiday overseas, is Australia. This year , they are not coming to Thailand. They are going on Mass to Bali.

LOL. They're always going enmass to Bali because of it's close proximity and they feel at home drinking with all the other Aussies.

To say that Australians aren't feeling the pinch is just not true. Times are hard for them too.

You're a bit out of touch. OZ was only slightly impacted by the global downturn. the aussie $ broke parity with the US $, homeowners in oz have seen their home values rocket higher, unemployment is only around 5% (3-4% is considered full employment).basically, compared to an American, an Aussie is about 40% wealthier now than before the crisis in 2008. resource based economy.... now, if China's bubble pops and they go into the shitter, oz will get a taste of it, not before.

[craigt3365]

I think you can say the same thing about all of Thailand. It's a third world country.

Anyone who thinks Thailand is "3rd world" needs to travel a bit. You could start with Indonesia, Cambodia, Burma and the Philippines...then head of to Africa.

Yeah, may be a bit inappropriate for Thailand. But it is a developing nation for sure. I've been to 70 countries...quite a few in Africa and pretty much every country in Asia. So I know the differences. My point is Thailand is not on par in terms of infrastructure with countries like the US, UK, Germany, France, etc. Which is great! It's one of the reasons I live here...it makes it that much cheaper. I don't need perfect sidewalks, perfect underground wiring, etc. My country has them and it's much more expensive to live there. But it sure is nice to walk around and not have to worry about soi dogs, holes in the sidewalk, cars running red lights, etc.

----------------------------------------------------------------

The term 'Third World' arose during the Cold War to define countries that remained non-aligned or not moving at all with either capitalism and NATO (which along with its allies represented the First World) or communism and the Soviet Union (which along with its allies represented the Second World). This definition provided a way of broadly categorizing the nations of the Earth into three groups based on social, political, and economic divisions.

The term continues to be used colloquially to describe the poorest countries in the world.

[phuketrichard]

Thai tourism is on the upswing for sure. Stop by the floating market this weekend. Global tourism is WAY down...and those who do travel, are spending way less. Plus, tourism is being promoted to the Indian and Chinese market...for sure lots more here in the past few years...and more will come in the future as their economies grow and prosper. 20 years ago I bet it was a rare thing to see a Russian/ex-soviet bloc tourist...now, they are everywhere!

The only "western" country ,that can afford to holiday overseas, is Australia. This year , they are not coming to Thailand. They are going on Mass to Bali.

and soon they will be travelling to Phuket ( at least air asia is banking on that) as they expect 70% of their NEW flight Bali to phuket starting the 17th of Dec to be with Australians

[Ohio]

The only "western" country ,that can afford to holiday overseas, is Australia. This year , they are not coming to Thailand. They are going on Mass to Bali.

LOL. They're always going enmass to Bali because of it's close proximity and they feel at home drinking with all the other Aussies.

To say that Australians aren't feeling the pinch is just not true. Times are hard for them too.

You're a bit out of touch. OZ was only slightly impacted by the global downturn. the aussie $ broke parity with the US $, homeowners in oz have seen their home values rocket higher, unemployment is only around 5% (3-4% is considered full employment).basically, compared to an American, an Aussie is about 40% wealthier now than before the crisis in 2008. resource based economy.... now, if China's bubble pops and they go into the shitter, oz will get a taste of it, not before.

I agree , really out of touch , especially in Western Australia where the unemployment rate is much lower than the National %. Bali is closer by air , much cheaper for most things excluding decent Wine & the last time we blew there for a couple of weeks to relax a New 4 Star Hotel offered incredibly good rates in Seminyak & then to Sanur , almost everyone we met was from Europe , Holland,Germany, etc. & a smattering of Americans. Down in Kuta , it would probably be mostly Aussies ,but , the main reason most I have asked ,is that its quicker & cheaper by Air to Bali than Pattaya & Patts still suffers the "Sex Tourist" destination tag. If China stops buying Coal,Iron Ore, & the Euros stop buying Diamonds & Gold & everyone else stops buying Bauxite,Uranium etc, then Oz could be in trouble. The LAPD new Fleet of Cars is coming from Australia by the way. The only problem with all the $$$ success in OZ is that domestically it is becoming expensive to live.

[Ohio]

OOOoooooops !!!

I forgot , the BEACHES in Bali are hygenically safe to swim in......

[tropo]

I agree , really out of touch , especially in Western Australia where the unemployment rate is much lower than the National

Whatever you say. People from my area of Australia, Queensland are not doing great.

[waza]

I agree Bali is the destination of choice for working class aussie singles and families. Phuket is seen more as a exotic and romantic destination, but pricey. They would need to control the corruption, clean up the beaches and lower thier prices to become a mainstream destination for the Aussie masses. Your average Aussie wouldnt have any knowledge of Pattaya.

[Daewoo]

I agree , really out of touch , especially in Western Australia where the unemployment rate is much lower than the National

Whatever you say. People from my area of Australia, Queensland are not doing great.

To an extent, the gap between unskilled, and skilled is growing... and the gap between skilled and professional is getting smaller... The only state not showing growth is NSW, because it relies far more heavily on professional services than the others. Whatever state, Australia is ridiculously expensive to live, and to travel in Australia even more so...

Your average Aussie wouldnt have any knowledge of Pattaya.

Back on topic, I would say that is pretty spot on... Aussies generally still rely on Travel Agents... they might go in and say "I want to go to Thailand" and the travel agent will book them 5 days in Phuket, 3 days in BKK, and 5 Days in Chiang Mai"... thankfully, most travel agents would not send them to Pattaya...

Has Pattaya moved upmarket (as opposed to staying level or going backwards)??? Probably... compared to where it was... is it 'upmarket' definately not...

I wouldn't say it is even middle market... for an Aussie, compared to Fiji, Vanuatu, Noumea, and yes, even some of the very nice resorts in Bali, Pattaya is still orders of magnitude below those standards...

And for comparison, an equivalent holiday in Phuket is about 2 times more expensive than Fiji, and 3 times more expensive than Bali...

My 58.775 Sattang...

Daewoo

[tropo]

I agree Bali is the destination of choice for working class aussie singles and families. Phuket is seen more as a exotic and romantic destination, but pricey. They would need to control the corruption, clean up the beaches and lower thier prices to become a mainstream destination for the Aussie masses. Your average Aussie wouldnt have any knowledge of Pattaya.

Aussies don't travel the world for beaches.

[truered]

Thai tourism is on the upswing for sure. Stop by the floating market this weekend. Global tourism is WAY down...and those who do travel, are spending way less. Plus, tourism is being promoted to the Indian and Chinese market...for sure lots more here in the past few years...and more will come in the future as their economies grow and prosper. 20 years ago I bet it was a rare thing to see a Russian/ex-soviet bloc tourist...now, they are everywhere!

So true about the Russians traveling and I suppose the same could be said about the Chinese and Indians.

I visit Angeles City, Philippines (Pattaya Lite ) a couple of times a yeas and I'm noticing more Indians there. A funny story, an Aussie hotel owner told me. He has a 4 to 6 pm Happy Hour, small San Mig Light beers are only 30 pesos, thats around 21 baht. The three Indians ordered one beer and requested three glasses. They slowly drank their very small portions, then sauntered off.

I don't have a problem with Indians, but I doubt that bar owners are too pleased to have them taking up space in their establishments

A good friend of mine owns some very nice, and quite expensive by pattaya standards, serviced apartments in the outskirts of Jomtien. When he opened about seven years ago one of his first bookings was via e mail from India requesting a one bedroomed apartment. He even gave a discount due to the persistant haggling. Six Indian guys turned up expecting to sleep on the sofas, floor etc. They even tried to re negotiate the price that had been agreed for a one bedroom apartment. He was so stunned he let them stay, (though not at a reduced rate). This scenario re occurred on quite a few occasions so his manager was instructed to make it quite clear to anyone booking from India that one bedroomed were for two people only, two bedroomed for four people etc. They still try it on sometimes though. Two people will turn up, check in etc, then under cover of darkness a few more will sneak in. They get short shrift now though and are sent on their way. Im sure that most people from India do not take things to these extremes, but enough of them do to ensure that a certain reputation precedes them, however unfair this may be to the majority who probably suffer the backlash.

old tricks done by thousands of teenage brits every year, all over europe.

tenerife 96 and 98. tshirt owned!

[waza]

I agree Bali is the destination of choice for working class aussie singles and families. Phuket is seen more as a exotic and romantic destination, but pricey. They would need to control the corruption, clean up the beaches and lower thier prices to become a mainstream destination for the Aussie masses. Your average Aussie wouldnt have any knowledge of Pattaya.

Aussies don't travel the world for beaches.

No,they travel the world for employment and recreation.

Edited November 16, 2010 by waza

[tropo]

I agree Bali is the destination of choice for working class aussie singles and families. Phuket is seen more as a exotic and romantic destination, but pricey. They would need to control the corruption, clean up the beaches and lower thier prices to become a mainstream destination for the Aussie masses. Your average Aussie wouldnt have any knowledge of Pattaya.

Aussies don't travel the world for beaches.

No,they travel the world for employment and recreation.

Unless of course you're a surfer, but then Phuket is not going to cut it.

[kuma]

You can not and never will be able to turn a Sows Ear into a Silk Purse

Same as we will never be able to change you from a doom and gloom merchant into a guy that actually has his eyes open and knows what hes talking about.

I take it you live somewhere other than Pattaya and don't have to dodge the pot holes, open ditches, rancid refuse. I live in Pattaya and have to do this on a daily basis if I go out, but I still live here and want to. I am not slagging Pattaya off but it is not in the same grade as other places and never will be. There is too much corruption to allow the infrastructure to be run and work correctly. Recent case, how much for the new pedestrian crossing lights?Great idea but not here.

Here here - I live here too and also enjoy it, but top shelf is not where it is headed - as was mentioned by earlier OP it is a diversity play so by definition it cant be top shelf imo

[axact]

Going Downmarket ? I do not think so.

The easy sex may have brought Pattaya this far but with the Western economy is shreds it is moving away from that to survive.

I see a lot of the Resort Hotels way out of Pattaya but still marketed as Pattaya with clean private beaches & upmarket Condo developments.

If package holidays work for them why not. I see the future of Pattaya City purely as a shopping destination and weekend get away for Thai's

Go to any of the busy tourist attractions in the locale, mainly Russian or Asian origin tourists, they certainly are spending the money in those places.

For a lot of posters it seems they assume Pattaya is failing just because the beer bars and gogo bars are not where the new money is being spent, I think this is an incorrect assumption.

Russians do spend money, why do you think an increasing number of hotels and restaurants have signage only in Russian ? They certainly have been buying a lot of Condos.

The Tourist Board has spent a lot of money on marketing Pattaya as a family destination and I think suceeded.

I am new here and the above is just my opinion, I could of course be wrong.

[alexanderthai]

Not only Pattaya or Thailand goes down but also Western part of the world.

[Ulysses G.]

I see the future of Pattaya City purely as a shopping destination and weekend get away for Thai's

I am new here and the above is just my opinion, I could of course be wrong.

You certainly could.

Edited November 18, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[jori]

Going Downmarket ? I do not think so.

The easy sex may have brought Pattaya this far but with the Western economy is shreds it is moving away from that to survive.

I see a lot of the Resort Hotels way out of Pattaya but still marketed as Pattaya with clean private beaches & upmarket Condo developments.

If package holidays work for them why not. I see the future of Pattaya City purely as a shopping destination and weekend get away for Thai's

Go to any of the busy tourist attractions in the locale, mainly Russian or Asian origin tourists, they certainly are spending the money in those places.

For a lot of posters it seems they assume Pattaya is failing just because the beer bars and gogo bars are not where the new money is being spent, I think this is an incorrect assumption.

Russians do spend money, why do you think an increasing number of hotels and restaurants have signage only in Russian ? They certainly have been buying a lot of Condos.

The Tourist Board has spent a lot of money on marketing Pattaya as a family destination and I think suceeded.

I am new here and the above is just my opinion, I could of course be wrong.

erm yes I think your wrong. I know many up market hotel chains that like to establish themselves in the likes of Pattaya,not for tax write off purposes , but all inclusive deals/exclusive tourism deals. Who in their right mind would pay a fortune and be seen dead on the likes of Walking street or wander around Beach Rd

[moo9]

Going Downmarket ? I do not think so.

The easy sex may have brought Pattaya this far but with the Western economy is shreds it is moving away from that to survive.

I see a lot of the Resort Hotels way out of Pattaya but still marketed as Pattaya with clean private beaches & upmarket Condo developments.

If package holidays work for them why not. I see the future of Pattaya City purely as a shopping destination and weekend get away for Thai's

Go to any of the busy tourist attractions in the locale, mainly Russian or Asian origin tourists, they certainly are spending the money in those places.

For a lot of posters it seems they assume Pattaya is failing just because the beer bars and gogo bars are not where the new money is being spent, I think this is an incorrect assumption.

Russians do spend money, why do you think an increasing number of hotels and restaurants have signage only in Russian ? They certainly have been buying a lot of Condos.

The Tourist Board has spent a lot of money on marketing Pattaya as a family destination and I think suceeded.

I am new here and the above is just my opinion, I could of course be wrong.

erm yes I think your wrong. I know many up market hotel chains that like to establish themselves in the likes of Pattaya,not for tax write off purposes , but all inclusive deals/exclusive tourism deals. Who in their right mind would pay a fortune and be seen dead on the likes of Walking street or wander around Beach Rd

Yeah...2,000 or 3,000 Baht per night sounds very exclusive. Why the hel_l should anybody should pay more in Pattaya. This is not Monte Carlo, and it won't be. So these chains followed each other, but they will realize soon, that they will have a hard time to get their rooms occupied at "luxury" prices.

[tropo]

Yeah...2,000 or 3,000 Baht per night sounds very exclusive. Why the hel_l should anybody should pay more in Pattaya. This is not Monte Carlo, and it won't be. So these chains followed each other, but they will realize soon, that they will have a hard time to get their rooms occupied at "luxury" prices.

There's plenty of hotels charging between 5 and 10k per night and getting it. You think the Hilton would be building a hotel without doing any homework?

Go and check the new Zign Hotel in Naklua. On the weekends they can be nearly full to capacity and they have 959 rooms. I stayed there one Friday night in a 15,000 suite. In the morning the breakfast buffet which is held in a huge room was like central station with hardly a table free. They don't have any trouble finding Asian customers who appreciate 5 star luxury. There are lots of upmarket hotels in Naklua.

What you need to understand is that people who like to stay in 5 star hotels often stay within the precincts of the hotel. That's the whole idea of 5 star accommodation. Restaurants, spas, pools, private beaches and organised excursions to golf courses and other upmarket activities. They would be shuttled to the new shopping center and the gem stores.

The people who like to stay in the luxury resorts are not the people who walk along Beach Road or Walking Street. In fact you would not normally even be aware of their presence.

Edited November 18, 2010 by tropo

[smokie36]

I can't help but smile at 15k a night in Pattaya tropo. I paid 17k a night on Koh Racha last year for a fantastic room but I can't imagine why I would in Pattaya. What is the draw there at the price I wonder?

I mean at that price you can have a luxury hotel in a much more picturesque spot...and with more privacy and peace and quiet.

[moo9]

I can't help but smile at 15k a night in Pattaya tropo. I paid 17k a night on Koh Racha last year for a fantastic room but I can't imagine why I would in Pattaya. What is the draw there at the price I wonder?

I mean at that price you can have a luxury hotel in a much more picturesque spot...and with more privacy and peace and quiet.

That's what I want to point out!

Currently many of the upmarket resorts are catching Thai customers with special package (weekend) deals. That's at least keeps them somewhat busy and helps to cover fixed costs. Only a few percentage of customers are paying the "wanted" full rates (and they must be damned stupid in doing so....)

[tropo]

I can't help but smile at 15k a night in Pattaya tropo. I paid 17k a night on Koh Racha last year for a fantastic room but I can't imagine why I would in Pattaya. What is the draw there at the price I wonder?

I mean at that price you can have a luxury hotel in a much more picturesque spot...and with more privacy and peace and quiet.

Perhaps I didn't want to travel. I could also go back to my home country of NZ for spectacular views if I wish.

The point is this is one example of a 5 star hotel doing very well.

The room was fantastic and the view spectacular. It has north view over the bay with its own private beach. Here's 2 photos taken from the balcony of my room. There's no sense of being in Pattaya at this hotel.

[tropo]

I can't help but smile at 15k a night in Pattaya tropo. I paid 17k a night on Koh Racha last year for a fantastic room but I can't imagine why I would in Pattaya. What is the draw there at the price I wonder?

I mean at that price you can have a luxury hotel in a much more picturesque spot...and with more privacy and peace and quiet.

That's what I want to point out!

Currently many of the upmarket resorts are catching Thai customers with special package (weekend) deals. That's at least keeps them somewhat busy and helps to cover fixed costs. Only a few percentage of customers are paying the "wanted" full rates (and they must be damned stupid in doing so....)

LOL. Was I stupid enough to pay the list price for my room?

This hotel does very well with conferences. There are a lot of non-Thai Asians there.

Edited November 19, 2010 by tropo

[Samuian]

is'nt5 Star Hotel in Pattaya an Oxymoron?

RR is what did put Pattaya on the map, it went on and on and on.... times do change so customers/client's desires, one can see it everywhere, not only on the decline in Thailand.

[AnnyLing]

Yeah...2,000 or 3,000 Baht per night sounds very exclusive. Why the hel_l should anybody should pay more in Pattaya. This is not Monte Carlo, and it won't be. So these chains followed each other, but they will realize soon, that they will have a hard time to get their rooms occupied at "luxury" prices.

There's plenty of hotels charging between 5 and 10k per night and getting it. You think the Hilton would be building a hotel without doing any homework?

Go and check the new Zign Hotel in Naklua. On the weekends they can be nearly full to capacity and they have 959 rooms. I stayed there one Friday night in a 15,000 suite. In the morning the breakfast buffet which is held in a huge room was like central station with hardly a table free. They don't have any trouble finding Asian customers who appreciate 5 star luxury. There are lots of upmarket hotels in Naklua.

What you need to understand is that people who like to stay in 5 star hotels often stay within the precincts of the hotel. That's the whole idea of 5 star accommodation. Restaurants, spas, pools, private beaches and organised excursions to golf courses and other upmarket activities. They would be shuttled to the new shopping center and the gem stores.

The people who like to stay in the luxury resorts are not the people who walk along Beach Road or Walking Street. In fact you would not normally even be aware of their presence.

In another thread you mentioned you cant afford a higher monthly rent than 21,000 baht but you pay 15,000 for a suite ?