Is Pattaya Going Downmarket?

[moo9]

Yawn, this discussion took place a million times. Hate it or love it, if you hate it then leave it.

All that upmarket stuff will not work here. The only tourists returning on a regular basis are the ones attracted by the entertainment industry. Others see the beaches, traffic etc. one time and will chose another beach destination in Thailand. Frankly, it's too late to turn back time and transfer Pattaya into a green, tropical resort.

It would be nice to see the local government and politicians to realize this and promote the strong points of Pattaya (WHICH BRING MONEY). But much to often, we see erratic decisions and attitudes. Shame!

[THAILIBAN]

,the girls uglier hence a positive saving there.

That's an absurd statement. The only difference is that the beauty in Malaysia is not in your face and plastered with makeup.

Ye, but its a heck of a job trying to look under the bhurka

that shows that you know absolutely ZERO about Malaysia. virtually NO Malaysian woman wears a "BHURKA". If you see such rare thing, it will in 99,5% of the cases

be a tourist from the Middle East / Arabia

[Rimmer]

Inflammatory post removed from view

[scotinsiam]

By going downmarket I presume you mean the replacement of many of Britain's finest ( ) and the dregs of the rest of Europe with Russian families and package tourists from Asia.

I can definitely see how harmful that could be for Pattaya's image

I agree; but unfortunately I still see a lot of tattooed, English knuckle dragging morons staggering around wearing their Chang T shirts. Most also seem to have an 18 year old "girlfriend" following behind talking into her mobile. The sooner these dregs are sent home the better we will all be for it.

[Ulysses G.]

It will certainly be a lot easier - and safer - to get to their girlfriends.

[taff33]

By going downmarket I presume you mean the replacement of many of Britain's finest ( ) and the dregs of the rest of Europe with Russian families and package tourists from Asia.

I can definitely see how harmful that could be for Pattaya's image

I agree; but unfortunately I still see a lot of tattooed, English knuckle dragging morons staggering around wearing their Chang T shirts. Most also seem to have an 18 year old "girlfriend" following behind talking into her mobile. The sooner these dregs are sent home the better we will all be for it.

May be it's these ''morons'' that are keeping the bars etc open how much do you spend at the bars do you help to keep them open,are you jealous that they have an ''18 year old girl friend'' may be you can't get one or don't like to spend money .Is that what the St Andrews flag does for you.

[RabC]

By going downmarket I presume you mean the replacement of many of Britain's finest ( ) and the dregs of the rest of Europe with Russian families and package tourists from Asia.

I can definitely see how harmful that could be for Pattaya's image

I agree; but unfortunately I still see a lot of tattooed, English knuckle dragging morons staggering around wearing their Chang T shirts. Most also seem to have an 18 year old "girlfriend" following behind talking into her mobile. The sooner these dregs are sent home the better we will all be for it.

May be it's these ''morons'' that are keeping the bars etc open how much do you spend at the bars do you help to keep them open,are you jealous that they have an ''18 year old girl friend'' may be you can't get one or don't like to spend money .Is that what the St Andrews flag does for you.

And of course non of them will be Jocks its only the English do things like that.

[Ohio]

now with the exceptional cheap all in fares offered from India the "Tourist Figures" will rise to a "High" & everybody will be able to say Patts is forging ahead.

I was just in Mumbai & Hyderabad & for about $150.00 it gives you a four day break here all in..WOW

We all know how the Indians throw their money around so the economy is going to go Gangbusters

[AnnyLing]

I was just in Mumbai & Hyderabad & for about $150.00 it gives you a four day break here all in..WOW

WOW ! a clear picture how Farangs are throwing their money around.

[pmgthailand]

I have to agree on this one, Thai women wear far too much make-up IMO. And the prettier girls love themselves far too much to love anyone else, least of all a farang boyfriend. Note to self - good business opportunity in Thailand would be a cosmetics boutique! Ladyboys wear loads of make-up THEY HAVE TO!!!

,the girls uglier hence a positive saving there.

That's an absurd statement. The only difference is that the beauty in Malaysia is not in your face and plastered with makeup.

Edited December 18, 2010 by pmgthailand

[chops]

now with the exceptional cheap all in fares offered from India the "Tourist Figures" will rise to a "High" & everybody will be able to say Patts is forging ahead.

I was just in Mumbai & Hyderabad & for about $150.00 it gives you a four day break here all in..WOW

We all know how the Indians throw their money around so the economy is going to go Gangbusters

I've always wondered why there are so many tourists here. Not many western tourists about(except the sex tourist kind), and I'm guessing the reason for that is that they can afford to go to nicer places like Phuket. I mean, who in their right mind would come to a dump like Pattaya for a family vacation? These people have gotta be clueless about this place.

I'm guessing most of the Russian, Indian, and Iranians are on these cheap packages as well?

[BB1950]

now with the exceptional cheap all in fares offered from India the "Tourist Figures" will rise to a "High" & everybody will be able to say Patts is forging ahead.

I was just in Mumbai & Hyderabad & for about $150.00 it gives you a four day break here all in..WOW

We all know how the Indians throw their money around so the economy is going to go Gangbusters

I've always wondered why there are so many tourists here. Not many western tourists about(except the sex tourist kind), and I'm guessing the reason for that is that they can afford to go to nicer places like Phuket. I mean, who in their right mind would come to a dump like Pattaya for a family vacation? These people have gotta be clueless about this place.

I'm guessing most of the Russian, Indian, and Iranians are on these cheap packages as well?

Personally, I found that Phukett is a very high priced dump! The Tuk-Tuk mafia there, is much worse than the Baht Bus mafia here. Three days was more than enough for me! I couldn't wait to get back to Pattaya.

I guess it's all in the eyes of the beholder.

Why don't you read this thread? http://www.thaivisa....rip-to-pattaya/

If you were to visit other areas of Pattaya besides the sex bar areas, you would find there are many families who come to Pattaya for a 'real' family vacation. Many have settled down here with their families for several years. They aren't sex tourists!

The sex bars are only a small part of the greater Pattaya area.

You will also find sex for sale and sex tourists throughout Thailand (including Phukett and Bangkok). Not just Pattaya!

By all means, if you like Phukett, then go there. You won't be missed here. Oh yeah, be sure to take your attitude with you. I'm sure Phukett could use more (something else I didn't like about Phukett). The people of Pattaya are a lot more friendlier and down to earth.

As they say, different strokes for different folks! :jerk:

Edited December 18, 2010 by BB1950

[thaimate]

now with the exceptional cheap all in fares offered from India the "Tourist Figures" will rise to a "High" & everybody will be able to say Patts is forging ahead.

I was just in Mumbai & Hyderabad & for about $150.00 it gives you a four day break here all in..WOW

We all know how the Indians throw their money around so the economy is going to go Gangbusters

I've always wondered why there are so many tourists here. Not many western tourists about(except the sex tourist kind), and I'm guessing the reason for that is that they can afford to go to nicer places like Phuket. I mean, who in their right mind would come to a dump like Pattaya for a family vacation? These people have gotta be clueless about this place.

I'm guessing most of the Russian, Indian, and Iranians are on these cheap packages as well?

You dont know what you are talking about,people like you come here to visit ,spend your time walking up and down beach road and walking street and think you have seen Pattaya ,go back to Phuket ,you wont be missed.

[Siam Simon]

now with the exceptional cheap all in fares offered from India the "Tourist Figures" will rise to a "High" & everybody will be able to say Patts is forging ahead.

I was just in Mumbai & Hyderabad & for about $150.00 it gives you a four day break here all in..WOW

We all know how the Indians throw their money around so the economy is going to go Gangbusters

I've always wondered why there are so many tourists here. Not many western tourists about(except the sex tourist kind), and I'm guessing the reason for that is that they can afford to go to nicer places like Phuket. I mean, who in their right mind would come to a dump like Pattaya for a family vacation? These people have gotta be clueless about this place.

I'm guessing most of the Russian, Indian, and Iranians are on these cheap packages as well?

You dont know what you are talking about,people like you come here to visit ,spend your time walking up and down beach road and walking street and think you have seen Pattaya ,go back to Phuket ,you wont be missed.

The thing I don't understand about the 'nicer places like Phuket' mentality is that the tourist heart of Phuket (Patong) is the dirtiest, seediest town in Thailand that I've had the misfortune to experience. We had a vacation in Karon last year, which we quite enjoyed. The missus wanted some big shopping, so we got the rip-off taxi to Patong. First time in five or six years in this town. Shopping centre pleasant enough, then we made the mistake of having a walk around the town. Absolutely bloody awful. Hawkers everywhere, scruffy, dirty soi's. The whole town seemed to have degenerated exponentially from when we were last there a few years ago. Just about the only thing that made the outing worthwhile was a wrong turn with the pram to avoid high kerbs, which took us into a beer bar complex which only had one bar open at that point in the afternoon. The staff were lovely, and between them and the only other customers (a late-middle-aged couple from England on holiday, visiting family), it just about salvaged our day trip.

[sojourner007]

I've always wondered why there are so many tourists here. Not many western tourists about(except the sex tourist kind), and I'm guessing the reason for that is that they can afford to go to nicer places like Phuket. I mean, who in their right mind would come to a dump like Pattaya for a family vacation? These people have gotta be clueless about this place.

I'm guessing most of the Russian, Indian, and Iranians are on these cheap packages as well?

Russians are taking over Pattaya:

[scotinsiam]

By going downmarket I presume you mean the replacement of many of Britain's finest ( ) and the dregs of the rest of Europe with Russian families and package tourists from Asia.

I can definitely see how harmful that could be for Pattaya's image

I agree; but unfortunately I still see a lot of tattooed, English knuckle dragging morons staggering around wearing their Chang T shirts. Most also seem to have an 18 year old "girlfriend" following behind talking into her mobile. The sooner these dregs are sent home the better we will all be for it.

May be it's these ''morons'' that are keeping the bars etc open how much do you spend at the bars do you help to keep them open,are you jealous that they have an ''18 year old girl friend'' may be you can't get one or don't like to spend money .Is that what the St Andrews flag does for you.

And of course non of them will be Jocks its only the English do things like that.

I have to agree you are correct

[Exsexyman]

By going downmarket I presume you mean the replacement of many of Britain's finest ( ) and the dregs of the rest of Europe with Russian families and package tourists from Asia.

I can definitely see how harmful that could be for Pattaya's image

I agree; but unfortunately I still see a lot of tattooed, English knuckle dragging morons staggering around wearing their Chang T shirts. Most also seem to have an 18 year old "girlfriend" following behind talking into her mobile. The sooner these dregs are sent home the better we will all be for it.

The 18 year old "girlfriend" is probably talking to her thai boyfriend or husband. The ones who really piss me off are the silly old men who walk along beach road, or inside the market on Soi Buakhow where it is clearly single file traffic so to speak, desperately clutching their 18 year old "girlfriends" hand. Everyone else is expected to step out into the road, or stand sideways in the aisles to let them pass. I"m sure they think if they let go she will disappear in a puff of smoke! Some of them probably would too! Do they not realise how sad and pathetic they look?

[Darrel]

Do they not realise how sad and pathetic they look?

Perhaps they dont care? I dont think I would, if I was in their shoes and having fun.

I'm sure that people look at me and see a sad and pathetic cheap charlie farang who eats street food. They dont know what my bank balance is though, or how much I am enjoying the street food, or that I eat it entirely from choice and not necessity.

And, probably like the market farang you mentioned, I really couldnt care less what anyone thinks about me anyway.

[Exsexyman]

Do they not realise how sad and pathetic they look?

Perhaps they dont care? I dont think I would, if I was in their shoes and having fun.

I'm sure that people look at me and see a sad and pathetic cheap charlie farang who eats street food. They dont know what my bank balance is though, or how much I am enjoying the street food, or that I eat it entirely from choice and not necessity.

And, probably like the market farang you mentioned, I really couldnt care less what anyone thinks about me anyway.

Believe it or not most people do not walk around looking at other people, wondering how much money they have. I also eat street food, like you, because i like it. Nothing to do with how much money you have. I have a couple of friends here who are extremely wealthy, and they eat it too. What i dont do however, is pull my table and chair out into the middle of the pavement whilst eating it, forcing everyone else to step into the road to get past.

[moo9]

By going downmarket I presume you mean the replacement of many of Britain's finest ( ) and the dregs of the rest of Europe with Russian families and package tourists from Asia.

I can definitely see how harmful that could be for Pattaya's image

I agree; but unfortunately I still see a lot of tattooed, English knuckle dragging morons staggering around wearing their Chang T shirts. Most also seem to have an 18 year old "girlfriend" following behind talking into her mobile. The sooner these dregs are sent home the better we will all be for it.

Sorry mate I got some tatoos as well (not a 18 yro gf though...) because of the tatoos I am not considering myself as downhill. Just to make that clear to some ignorant people.

Edited February 17, 2011 by moo9

[Danlo]

Pattaya falling into a cheap charlie abyss ? No way !

Holiday Inn, Pullman , Sheraton and Hilton groups would disagree, this investment by some of the worlds leading quality hotel chains is quite recent, and I'm sure the people entrusted to manage the investments of these multinationals are pretty good at their jobs and have done their homework, so why did they choose Pattaya ?

However much it may irk those who don't live in Pattaya or those that struggle by on meagre funds in a 3000 Baht per month room in Soi Exzyte, or those that just can't stand the fact that Pattaya can attract people outside the stereotypes they imagine all visitors to Pattaya to be, Pattaya is in fact, in an ascendancy.

Yes there are run down areas that cater to the budget conscious people, Soi Chaiyaphum for example, and I was there myself only a few days ago at Canterbury Tales for some books, but the lack of a paved road makes the whole road look really bad, take that with impossible parking, it's not very apealing to people who are here on holiday.

Put those same Tourists on Wong Amat beach, they'll think totally different.

I dont think it will effect guys on holiday as not many have cars, a few have bikes but the average holiday maker who knows better will not use a motorbike, too dangerous, chaiyapoon soi has been resurfaced now anyway.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

My two cents worth--I see a lot of development hype (from those who have a self-interest in creating a new image) that does not meet reality on the ground. Yes, there are some new malls and condos, but the new development model has been in motion for ten years and has not produced what the "visionaries" had in mind. Pattaya is not Las Vegas or Miami Beach. And I do not think it ever will be. I think that is a dream conjured up by delusional real estate agents, property owners, and govt. officials who think they are going to benefit financially by the new development model. There seems to be an ongoing struggle between the upmarket crowd (who I think are delusional) and economic reality. As far as people are concerned, lots of good people have left (some bad) only to be replaced by lots of bad people (some good). One wonders how many decades it will take for the new development model to be scraped in favor of a more realistic, balanced model that does not focus so much on the rich. I suppose a viable alternative to Pattaya would allow reality (the failure of the new development model) to surface. But where is that alternative? Hua Hin? Phuket? Chiang Mai? Other places in Vietnam or Cambodia? Where? As long as it is not there, people will continue to go to Pattaya. With all of its negatives there are certainly worse places to be living

[globalmenace]

Oh yes, all those extremely wealthy farangs living in a one-room dump, eating street food, drinking Chang from the big bottle on the sidewalk, wearing the raggedy old wife-beater and chasing the balloons. They are everywhere, just like the former SAS commandos and ex-Navy Seals. And of course they don't care what anyone else thinks, which is why they tell you all about it. Afterall, Pattaya is fantasy land.

Edited February 24, 2011 by globalmenace

[JSixpack]

> My two cents worth--I see a lot of development hype (from those who

> have a self-interest in creating a new image)

>

I see hype, but mostly from condo developers for condos that haven't been built and may never will be.

Otherwise, advertisements show part of the reality of Pattaya that appeals a particular target market. That reality does, in fact, now exist. (The ads don't acually say that the beach is clean!) It's not a false image. It's just not the whole image. But Pattaya has a diverse appeal; there are other realities for other markets.

>

> that does not meet

> reality on the ground.

>

Actually, it mostly DOES except for a few frauds here and there.

> Yes, there are some new malls and condos,

Yes, there are. The malls are MAJOR developments. There are far more than "some" new condos. There is a HUGE number of new condos. AND there are now some MAJOR hotel chains.

So, there's nothing to sneer at or breezily dismiss here. BIG changes have happened.

>

> but

> the new development model has been in motion for ten years and has

> not produced what the "visionaries" had in mind.

>

What "visionaries?" Opportunities were seen, taken, and are paying off. Pattaya is bigger than ever, serving more tourists of a greater diversity than ever. What's your problem?

>

> Pattaya is not Las

> Vegas or Miami Beach.

>

Oh, is THAT it?

Well, nobody ever claimed it was. You want Las Vegas or Miami, go to Las Vegas or Miami.

However, Las Vegas and Miami had to have a beginning. In the future, who knows? Biggest obstacle is the corrupt government.

>

> And I do not think it ever will be.

Yawn.

>

> I think

> that is a dream conjured up by delusional real estate agents,

> property owners, and govt. officials who think they are going to

> benefit financially by the new development model.

>

Nobody offered you that dream. You must have been smokin' something there, pal.

But unquestionably real estate agents, property owners, and govt. officials have in fact already profited and will continue to do so from Pattaya's development.

>

> There seems to be

> an ongoing struggle between the upmarket crowd (who I think are

> delusional) and economic reality.

>

The "struggle" exists only in your own mind. The upmarket crowd is happy. The downmarket crowd is happy too.

That's generally speaking. Of course, there are always chronic complainers and delicate flowers who need something other than what Pattaya can provide. (I don't know what that is actually--within reason, in our Third Word country. You want quiet, move to the Darkside or suburban Naklua. Want a clean beach, take a day trip to Rayong or overnight on a nearby island.)

>

> As far as people are concerned,

> lots of good people have left (some bad) only to be replaced by lots

> of bad people (some good).

Mmmm. I'm not really clear on how some of the good people were bad and some of the bad people were good.

In any case, yes, some good people have left, one way or the other, and have been replaced by MORE good people. Yeah, we got bad people too, surprise. Deal with it.

On the other hand, no katoey has ever left; many more have arrived. Must be larger market for their services.

What if some of the once-good people have turned bad while staying put? Now, that would be just disappointing.

But all this begs the question of defining "good" and "bad."

>

> One wonders how many decades it will take

> for the new development model to be scraped in favor of a more

> realistic, balanced model that does not focus so much on the rich.

Huh? Pattaya has always met most markets. In the past 10 years, we've had upscale development that has proven successful economically. Clearly there was a market waiting to be served.

But, as witnessed by, for example, the vast development around Soi Buakeow, still ongoing, the non-rich or frugal tourist/resident is also getting what he/she needs as well.

And on Walking Street, plenty of bars (NICER bars) are offering cheap draft beer that wasn't offered there 10 years ago!

>

> I

> suppose a viable alternative to Pattaya would allow reality (the

> failure of the new development model) to surface.

Cough. The "model" and the "failure" is purely imaginary on your part. Best thing to do is allow a little reality to surface in your own mind. Drive all around and just take a look.

>

> But where is that

> alternative? Hua Hin? Phuket? Chiang Mai? Other places in Vietnam or

> Cambodia? Where? As long as it is not there, people will continue to

> go to Pattaya. With all of its negatives there are certainly worse places to be living

Pattaya, like Last Vegas or Miami, has always had its negatives. Always. Now, the biggest new negative is just the traffic and parking situation caused by the hordes now coming into enjoy the "failure" and live here to service the "failure."

Other new "negatives" are mostly imaginary, purely subjective, bigoted, or simply misguided.

Edited February 24, 2011 by JSixpack

[Panhandler007]

Last time I was in Pattaya was during the yearly Cobra Gold exercises. Lots O tourists and crap floating in the water! not the cleanest beach!!

[Panhandler007]

I always liked the layout of KL. Street food is clean and tasty, but the Malays are not nearly as friendly as Thais.

Ex pat Retirees I met in Penang & KL seem much more content with the fact they can own property & not have the 'Police State' mentality of annual immigration checks etc. but some others I met in Bali in Sanur are happiest there. Personal taste as with everything in life

Bali is beautiful but unless you surf or dive, not much to do there I would imagine. Also, public utilities, roads, medical, and shopping infrastructure are nothing compared to Pattaya/Thailand.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Last time I was in Pattaya was during the yearly Cobra Gold exercises. Lots O tourists and crap floating in the water! not the cleanest beach!!

Live or dead tourists floating in the water? As dirty as it is, it was worse in the past (really had a bad smell); one of the only things I can think of about Pattaya that was not better in the past.

[Danlo]

There has been more of everything this year and will continue to grow.

[WISteve]

Oh yes, all those extremely wealthy farangs living in a one-room dump, eating street food, drinking Chang from the big bottle on the sidewalk, wearing the raggedy old wife-beater and chasing the balloons. They are everywhere, just like the former SAS commandos and ex-Navy Seals. And of course they don't care what anyone else thinks, which is why they tell you all about it. Afterall, Pattaya is fantasy land.

Then don't come here ya silly goose!

There is a broad range of visitors and expats in Pattaya; from the well heeled to the budget retiree. If you don't wish to see the more modestly dressed retirees there are plenty of better and more expensive restaurants and condos to be found. They all have a right to life here if they are paying their own way and not camped on your front lawn. There are no modestly living citizens in your home country? Show some tolerance please.

Last time I was in Pattaya was during the yearly Cobra Gold exercises. Lots O tourists and crap floating in the water! not the cleanest beach!!

Take a trip out to Samae Beach on Koh Larn sometime if you are looking for a clean beach with fewer people. The combination of large numbers of people frequenting the Beach Road area (both Thai and falang) along with lax regulations has taken a toll on the water quality unfortunately.

Edited March 12, 2011 by WISteve