It's Time For Thailand To End State Homophobia

[SkyHigh]

Even a sandal with PM's face on it can cause a state paranoid for this country.

What's the point talking about human right for gay-stuff.

... not in a million years.

Deal with it.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Even a sandal with PM's face on it can cause a state paranoid for this country.

What's the point talking about human right for gay-stuff.

... not in a million years.

Deal with it.

I agree - million years away - same for sexism, ageism and all the rest - gays and trans-whatevers are low down the list

[Deeral]

ave any differently

It ought to be pointed out that men (or women) holding hands is not an indication that they're necessarily gay. There are many countries where holding hands is an indication of friendship between two straight people.

yes of course but they dont kiss each other on the lips or hug each other and one has short cropped hair and looks at all other people as 'threats' to her/his gf!

Is that how you behave when out and about with your partner?

certainley not - sorry I miss your point?

so whay would people behave differently if they were gay?

[Deeral]

If they didn't behave that way presumably you'd think they weren't gay?

[tombkk]

It ought to be pointed out that men (or women) holding hands is not an indication that they're necessarily gay. There are many countries where holding hands is an indication of friendship between two straight people.

yes of course but they dont kiss each other on the lips or hug each other and one has short cropped hair and looks at all other people as 'threats' to her/his gf!

Not in every culture they kiss each others on the lips, but in some they do:

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/tag/honecker/

And I am sure there are many pictures about hugging (quite common among straight friends in many counties, for example in Southern Europe). I'm just too lazy to google for you right now.

What was your point again, please?

[tombkk]

I thought Thailand was one of the most liberal countries in the world towards sexuality.

Being openly gay in my local back in the UK would get anyone a beating at best.

But what do I know!

You are so wide of the mark here.

No, he isn't. There are two different things:

1. Cultural acceptance by the population.

Thailand is a leading country in this respect. However, the legal situation is such that a same-sex relationship is not recognised, and there is no attempt yet to change that.

I won't comment on the cultural acceptance of homosexuality in the outbacks of the UK.

2. Legal acceptance by the authorities.

In many Western countries, the legal system allows same-sex relationships, even to the legal level (won't use the word marriage here, as some people might get offended), but the local people might get offended (oops, are you mnoticing something?). The politicians are ahead in their developement, but they haven't gotten around to educating the populace yet.

What do I value as more important? - Cultural acceptance. Others may see that differently, though.

[Deeral]

I thought Thailand was one of the most liberal countries in the world towards sexuality.

Being openly gay in my local back in the UK would get anyone a beating at best.

But what do I know!

You are so wide of the mark here.

No, he isn't. There are two different things:

1. Cultural acceptance by the population.

Thailand is a leading country in this respect. However, the legal situation is such that a same-sex relationship is not recognised, and there is no attempt yet to change that.

I won't comment on the cultural acceptance of homosexuality in the outbacks of the UK.

2. Legal acceptance by the authorities.

In many Western countries, the legal system allows same-sex relationships, even to the legal level (won't use the word marriage here, as some people might get offended), but the local people might get offended (oops, are you mnoticing something?). The politicians are ahead in their developement, but they haven't gotten around to educating the populace yet.

What do I value as more important? - Cultural acceptance. Others may see that differently, though.

uh - that's what I said

[tombkk]

There are two different things:

1. Cultural acceptance by the population.

2. Legal acceptance by the authorities.

What do I value as more important? - Cultural acceptance. Others may see that differently, though.

uh - that's what I said

I didn't read that in your posts, but I am glad that we agree.

[Deeral]

being openly gay won't get you beaten up in all UK pubs - only some areas - no country is uniform.

THailand gay bashing occurs too.

but there as I pointed out earlier is no real tolerance either socially or legally for gay people in Thailand.

that you will find in the west.Yes of course there are homophobes everywhere, but in the west they are now generally ridiculed.

[SweatiePie]

There are two different things:

1. Cultural acceptance by the population.

Thailand is a leading country in this respect. However, the legal situation is such that a same-sex relationship is not recognised, and there is no attempt yet to change that.

I won't comment on the cultural acceptance of homosexuality in the outbacks of the UK.

2. Legal acceptance by the authorities.

In many Western countries, the legal system allows same-sex relationships, even to the legal level (won't use the word marriage here, as some people might get offended), but the local people might get offended (oops, are you mnoticing something?). The politicians are ahead in their developement, but they haven't gotten around to educating the populace yet.

What do I value as more important? - Cultural acceptance. Others may see that differently, though.

Agreed yet again, Tom.

There are many different ways to skin a cat.

The West seems to see legislation as the answer to everything, with more and more laws controlling everything we do until freedom of choice is so limited that the only way to avoid doing nothing wrong is to do nothing at all.

The East is rather more laisssez-faire, leaving it up to individuals how they get along. If some people don't like others because of their race, religion, sexual preference, etc, then so be it: as long as they don't specifically target those people as distinct from sideline them, then that's fair. If you don't like someone, for whatever reason, it is unreasonable to be forced to employ them, for example.

Neither way is perfect. While you can tell people how to behave you can't tell people how to think, and in some cases western legislation has had a backlash against the very people it was designed to protect - some police forces in both the UK and the USA have reported considerably more violent crimes against gays after "hate crime" legislation than there was before. On the other hand everyone should be entitled to basic civil rights - the question, though, is what those basic rights are and when do they start affecting other people's basic rights.

The answer in the long term, East or West, must be education - if that is best coming before or after legislation is debatable.

[SweatiePie]

Everyone is equal in the eye's of the religious one, Buddha, Jesus, the good allah etc etc, so whats the problem ,...........

I think you need to read your Bible and your Koran a little more closely. Even the most liberal translations/interpretations make it clear beyond any doubt that men and women, just for starters, are far from equal.

[SweatiePie]

.........One need only look at the current abortion fiasco to understand what happens when political or personal views interfere with decisions that should be focused on health.

Which particular "current abortion fiasco" are you talking about, GK?

Abortions in registered clinics have been legal in Thailand under Section 305 of the Thai Criminal Code for over four years and none of the many abortions carried out in those clinics have been challenged legally or ethically. The only problem is that far too few Thais are aware of the current legal position so many still risk using illegal and dangerous back street "clinics" unnecessarily. Again, it all boils down to education rather than legislation.

[cdnvic]

Posts removed for flaming, quoting a flame, broken quotes, and one or two that were just unintelligible.

[BSJ]

I got no beef with gays, each to his own. But I wonder is being gay a symptom of a mental disease or is it a lifestyle choice? I know it's not the same arguement, but look at ladyboys and ask the same question.

Me, I am straight....always have and always will be....I hope!

[Jingthing]

I got no beef with gays, each to his own. But I wonder is being gay a symptom of a mental disease or is it a lifestyle choice?

Neither.

Next ...

[Valentine]

.........One need only look at the current abortion fiasco to understand what happens when political or personal views interfere with decisions that should be focused on health.

Which particular "current abortion fiasco" are you talking about, GK?

Abortions in registered clinics have been legal in Thailand under Section 305 of the Thai Criminal Code for over four years and none of the many abortions carried out in those clinics have been challenged legally or ethically. The only problem is that far too few Thais are aware of the current legal position so many still risk using illegal and dangerous back street "clinics" unnecessarily. Again, it all boils down to education rather than legislation.

I think he means the 2,000 fetuses found at a temple.

[tombkk]

I got no beef with gays, each to his own. But I wonder is being gay a symptom of a mental disease or is it a lifestyle choice? I know it's not the same arguement, but look at ladyboys and ask the same question.

Me, I am straight....always have and always will be....I hope!

Why do you hope to be always straight? You don't know what you are missing! (scnr)

But thanks for your question. Asking questions is the only way to learn. No, being gay is neither a symptom of a mental desease nor a lifestyle choice. Some men like women, others like men. It just is that way. It's not a desease, it's nothing bad, but it's also not a choice. A gay man is gay, a straight man is straight, but most people are not that extreme. Straight men with gay experiences and gay men with straight experiences are not unusual. Men who like men and women equally are called bisexual.

I think we discussed this in another thread just a few days ago, you must have missed that.

[ChiangMaiFun]

I got no beef with gays, each to his own. But I wonder is being gay a symptom of a mental disease or is it a lifestyle choice? I know it's not the same arguement, but look at ladyboys and ask the same question.

Me, I am straight....always have and always will be....I hope!

Why do you hope to be always straight? You don't know what you are missing! (scnr)

But thanks for your question. Asking questions is the only way to learn. No, being gay is neither a symptom of a mental desease nor a lifestyle choice. Some men like women, others like men. It just is that way. It's not a desease, it's nothing bad, but it's also not a choice. A gay man is gay, a straight man is straight, but most people are not that extreme. Straight men with gay experiences and gay men with straight experiences are not unusual. Men who like men and women equally are called bisexual.

I think we discussed this in another thread just a few days ago, you must have missed that.

There are alot more gays and toms in Thailand that's for sure! and before the gays on here shout 'the others are hiding in Western counteries' I don't go for that - there is something about Thailand that produces a lot more - for some reason gilrs in school or Uni are considered 'fashionable' if they have a 'tom'. Most pretty girls go that route because they have a 'broken heart' by some Thai boy - ask some... I have - so it can be about 'choice' - but not always I suspect.

[craigt3365]

I thought Thailand was one of the most liberal countries in the world towards sexuality.

Being openly gay in my local back in the UK would get anyone a beating at best.

But what do I know!

I tend to agree. I've been all over the world and nowhere is it more accepted than here in Thailand. I was at a concert last night. When the dancing gals came out, I noticed a rather large one. My wife said, sure...ladyboy. Now what other country in the world would have something like that in a public concert. It was a hoot. Feathered hat, tutu, high heels, long gloves, prancing around. I can guarantee in most other countries he would have been beat up for sure. But not here...it's no big deal...and being gay or lesbian is no big deal either. Great! I love it.

But it sounds like the government needs to be more accommodating, like the general public is. For sure other countries laws are much more supportive of this. But what can you expect from a dysfunctional government like they currently have. It's barely being held together as it is.

[SkyHigh]

But it sounds like the government needs to be more accommodating, like the general public is. For sure other countries laws are much more supportive of this.

oh god plz ... NO.

male or female. That's it.

I dont want to see any other choices either lesbian , gay, or whatever when I fill out any papers.

I have nothing against gay people. But I absolutely do NOT think the GOv should be accomodating this specific group of people.

What exactly Gov should do ? Enforce law that gays should have their specific restroom except from men &women ?

That's WEIRD !

Gay marriage ??? Dont you think it's a sign of more 'encouraging' ?

How about half of kids in school being gay ? Dont you think it's now a 'problem' ?

Thailand is THE most welcome place on earth for gay & lesbians & ladyboy already.

Let's spend valuable resource & time on other stuff.

This country has a lot more important to deal with. Let's just focus on those things.

Edited November 21, 2010 by SkyHigh

[Jingthing]

But it sounds like the government needs to be more accommodating, like the general public is. For sure other countries laws are much more supportive of this.

oh god plz ... NO.

male or female. That's it.

I dont want to see any other choices either lesbian , gay, or whatever when I fill out any papers.

I have nothing against gay people. But I absolutely do NOT think the GOv should be accomodating this specific group of people.

What exactly Gov should do ? Enforce law that gays should have their specific restroom except from men &women ?

That's WEIRD !

Gay marriage ??? Dont you think it's a sign of more 'encouraging' ?

How about half of kids in school being gay ? Dont you think it's now a 'problem' ?

Thailand is THE most welcome place on earth for gay & lesbians & ladyboy already.

Let's spend valuable resource & time on other stuff.

This country has a lot more important to deal with. Let's just focus on those things.

Lets play a little game with your post and substitute ANOTHER minority group instead of gays as a test whether it is possibly true that you have nothing against gays as you claim --

oh god plz ... NO.

Buddhist or Christian. That's it.

I dont want to see any other choices either Muslim , Jewish, or whatever when I fill out any papers.

I have nothing against Muslim people. But I absolutely do NOT think the GOv should be accomodating this specific group of people.

What exactly Gov should do ? Enforce law that Muslims should have their specific restroom except from Buddhists & Christians ?

That's WEIRD !

Mixed marriages with Muslims ??? Dont you think it's a sign of more 'encouraging' ?

How about half of kids in school being Muslim ? Dont you think it's now a 'problem' ?

Thailand is THE most welcome place on earth for Muslims already.

Let's spend valuable resource & time on other stuff.

This country has a lot more important to deal with. Let's just focus on those things.

[Bagwan]

The old generation will continue to rule with their antiquated ways for a while. Just look at the movie censorship, it is positively Victorian & Barbara castle would be proud. In my early years in this country I watched the occasional beauty contest on TV & was astonished to see beautiful women made to wear their hair all in the same style, the one which many middle aged & elderly women have, done up in a bun on the top. When the camera panned over the judges one could see why.

Once women achieve better rights then the GLTs might stand a chance but even today women have far fewer rights than men.

The only Barbara Castle of which I know of  was a prominent UK left wing politician and  introduced breathalysers, compulsory seat belts, and maximum speed limit of 70 mph. She also sorted out a strike at the Ford factory over women's pay and although not totally successful did manage to persuade Ford to pay women machinists 92% of the men's rate, a significant rise. I have never heard of her involvement in film censorship.

[Scott]

One off-topic post has been deleted. Please stay on the topic.

Thanks.

[Deeral]

ave any differently

yes of course but they dont kiss each other on the lips or hug each other and one has short cropped hair and looks at all other people as 'threats' to her/his gf!

Is that how you behave when out and about with your partner?

certainley not - sorry I miss your point?

so whay would people behave differently if they were gay?

it's a crude attempt at "reductio ad absurdum"

[SkyHigh]

Lets play a little game with your post and substitute ANOTHER minority group instead of gays as a test whether it is possibly true that you have nothing against gays as you claim --

whether I like those gays people or not is not relevant.

My point is simple: let this issue stay as it is, no more no less. And I disagree with artical which say Thailand should do more. NO, this country doesn't need to.

The fact you can bring religious belief to this topic is beyond my understanding. And problaby describe who you are.

[Deeral]

But it sounds like the government needs to be more accommodating, like the general public is. For sure other countries laws are much more supportive of this.

oh god plz ... NO.

male or female. That's it.

I dont want to see any other choices either lesbian , gay, or whatever when I fill out any papers.

I have nothing against gay people. But I absolutely do NOT think the GOv should be accomodating this specific group of people.

What exactly Gov should do ? Enforce law that gays should have their specific restroom except from men &women ?

That's WEIRD !

Gay marriage ??? Dont you think it's a sign of more 'encouraging' ?

How about half of kids in school being gay ? Dont you think it's now a 'problem' ?

Thailand is THE most welcome place on earth for gay & lesbians & ladyboy already.

Let's spend valuable resource & time on other stuff.

This country has a lot more important to deal with. Let's just focus on those things.

Lets play a little game with your post and substitute ANOTHER minority group instead of gays as a test whether it is possibly true that you have nothing against gays as you claim --

good one!

oh god plz ... NO.

Buddhist or Christian. That's it.

I dont want to see any other choices either Muslim , Jewish, or whatever when I fill out any papers.

I have nothing against Muslim people. But I absolutely do NOT think the GOv should be accomodating this specific group of people.

What exactly Gov should do ? Enforce law that Muslims should have their specific restroom except from Buddhists & Christians ?

That's WEIRD !

Mixed marriages with Muslims ??? Dont you think it's a sign of more 'encouraging' ?

How about half of kids in school being Muslim ? Dont you think it's now a 'problem' ?

Thailand is THE most welcome place on earth for Muslims already.

Let's spend valuable resource & time on other stuff.

This country has a lot more important to deal with. Let's just focus on those things.

[Deeral]

Yes - your point IS simple - I think it's time to float a Khrathong......what how you launch it!

[Jingthing]

Lets play a little game with your post and substitute ANOTHER minority group instead of gays as a test whether it is possibly true that you have nothing against gays as you claim --

whether I like those gays people or not is not relevant.

My point is simple: let this issue stay as it is, no more no less. And I disagree with artical which say Thailand should do more. NO, this country doesn't need to.

The fact you can bring religious belief to this topic is beyond my understanding. And problaby describe who you are.

I am very sorry that you totally missed my point. However, that's OK because I reckon most readers DID get my point. I merely replaced one MINORITY group with another. I could have used a different race as well. The issue here may be that you (and you are certainly not alone) do not think that sexual minorities are legitimate, morally equivalent minorities compared to racial, religious, or national origin minorities. I am sorry again though, because people who do not feel sexual minorities deserve the same rights as any other human beings most certainly DO have something against sexual minorities. Edited November 21, 2010 by Jingthing

[supaprik]

Homophobia is only one of many deep seeded issues with many Thai people including their pathetic, corrupt governments.. Xenophobia of course is as rampant...Any wonder Thailand is veiwed as 3rd world at best and will continue to be looked at and thought of this way until thailand gets it's HOUSE in order.

Just remember..Thai do not need to listen as they are the smartest race on the planet..NOT

Edited November 23, 2010 by supaprik