Rethink Required In Thai Society On Teenage Sex, Unwanted Babies

[webfact]

EDITORIAL

Rethink required on teenage sex, unwanted babies

By The Nation

Discovery of thousands of aborted foetuses shows unwanted pregnancies are a major issue we need to confront

Last week's discovery of some 2,000 aborted foetuses at a well-known Bangkok temple must serve as a wake-up call for the whole of Thai society, which has been awkwardly grappling with the increasingly worrying issue of unwanted teen pregnancies. There are many troubling aspects to this - legal, social and political - so a typical police pledge to crack down on illegal abortion clinics is not going to change anything.

Horrible as it seems, the scene at the Phai Ngern Temple is just the tip of the iceberg. Media interviews in the wake of the temple drama found that illegal abortions are rampant not just in Bangkok, and in many cases they are done with parental consent. Taxi motorcyclists told reporters they had taken many teenage girls to clinics for illegal abortions. Some temples were reportedly "approached" by people from clinics to be foetus disposal sites.

A crackdown on those clinics could just make things worse, as illegal abortions are only likely to be driven deeper underground with more dangerous consequences. Everybody, not just the police, must face the current problem together. This issue calls for a legal review, social understanding, political broadmindedness as well as a rethink of sex education.

The irony is there for all to see - with a temple used as a hiding place for aborted foetuses. But then again, maybe the irony is there because the country has not been facing this problem the way it needs to. Sex among young people is known to have been increasing, but how much has society done to cope, or keep up, with this trend? The aborted foetuses are the end result of adults' ignorance as much as youngsters' naivety.

Will public attention caused by this latest incident that highlights a serious social problem be a flash in the pan once again? Everyone should bear in mind that the dead foetuses at the Phai Ngern Temple were discovered probably because we are being asked to look at other places as well. With or without the discovery, illegal abortion has been going on, very likely on a massive scale although it's impossible to get accurate statistics.

If desperate teenage girls know where to get an abortion, it must have been easy for the authorities to know where to look. What has been happening in Thailand is that we have been tackling the problem of teen sex and unwanted pregnancies in a half-hearted manner. Parents have been reluctant to educate their children about proper sexual behaviour, fearful that sincere talks about condoms or birth control pills at the dining table could be mistaken as a "green light" for promiscuity. Schools do not want to break the norms and trigger controversies. Legislators, like schools, want to "play it safe". Police have to turn a blind eye from time to time because they are either corrupt or overwhelmed by the magnitude of unwanted pregnancies.

What looked like a brave, albeit controversial, piece of proposed legislation, the so-called Juno Bill, is not getting anywhere. The bill, proposed because of an alarming increase in the number of young Thai women getting pregnant under the age of 20, would give pregnant students the legal right to take maternal leave and continue their studies after giving birth. Although surveys show considerable public support for the bill, society has chosen to remain cautious, afraid that such a sympathetic law would encourage imprudent sex among young people.

The 348 dead foetuses at the Phai Ngern Temple clearly shows that, with or without the Juno Bill, the problem is there, waiting to be properly dealt with. The parents of the unborn babies did not know what else to do. That shows that something needs to be done. These issues need to be tackled much more boldly.

-- The Nation 2010-11-21

[asiawatcher]

Ignorance is bliss. Ask most Thai's! But the Juno Bill is to me an essential bill in conjunction with education. Sex is not the main issue as it is part of lifes pleasures. Educate the public as to ramifications and responsibilities and you would have far greater understanding than raging hormones in teens.

[lothda]

Always use condoms and/or other contraceptives, problem solved. But then that would seem to approve pre-marital and teen sex - which is not acceptable. That's the real problem

[kuffki]

I think the problem is lack of law to have fathers responsible for the child.

Almost every girl i speak with who is a single mother, all have the same story either

1. He said if you love me, you have my baby

2. When i got pregnant, he left. or left once baby was born

Perhaps if fathers were held responsible for the child financially then the boys will not be demanding for the baby and will think twice before wanting to have 1.

[ChiangMaiFun]

I think the problem is lack of law to have fathers responsible for the child.

Almost every girl i speak with who is a single mother, all have the same story either

1. He said if you love me, you have my baby

2. When i got pregnant, he left. or left once baby was born

Perhaps if fathers were held responsible for the child financially then the boys will not be demanding for the baby and will think twice before wanting to have 1.

Last comment spot on! they have no such financial responsibility here - it's so backward! how many girls do I meet with a baby? 100s and 100s - Thai guys have no sense of responsibility whatsoever because they are taught 'mai pen rai' at an early age - roughly translated 'I don't care'

[ChiangMaiFun]

Always use condoms and/or other contraceptives, problem solved. But then that would seem to approve pre-marital and teen sex - which is not acceptable. That's the real problem

The problem is an underdeveloped culture - in many areas 'we have no prostitution', 'we don't have abortion' bla bla bla

It's the hypocritical bit I find the most distasteful - I love it here but Thais just can't stand the truth - bury it... 'mai pen rai' they ignore all the problems and don't want to know their kids are having sex at teenage years up - same as ignoring sexual abuse of kids, gay issues and all the rest - it doesn't exist!

[jayjay0]

Just my opinion but the big problem is in the head of Westerners. Perhaps if they would try to look at things from the Thai cultural point of view they might have a different idea.

As the article says it is just going to be a flash in the pan. That is because that is all it is to the Thai's. To read some of these post's a person could get the idea that Thailand is the only country in the world where women get abortions. Wake up people this is going on all over the world. Many countries have and are trying the various methods to control it with little success.

I have a brother in law who works for welfare in the states. His job is to track down dead beat fathers. In the States the father is legally responsible. But that solves nothing unmarried women are still getting pregnant and being abandoned by the father. It is only when they go on welfare that the father is tracked down and forced to pay money. And in most cases not enough to raise a child with.

There is a solution but I don't know what it is. To go against human nature is not it. To rely on sex education will not do the job either. Maybe if some how men could learn a sense of responsibility in there formative years it would be a big help. And if the westerners who can't get laid at home would make it a point to practice safe sex things would start to change. And the change would take time there is no overnight answer.

In the mean time legalize abortion and provide clinics with responsible staff.

Edited November 21, 2010 by jayjay0

[Beetlejuice]

This is like something from the Hammer House of Horrors.

The GF told me that this was discovered when Soi dogs were seen taking bodies outside and eating them. Been going on for 6 years.

Perhaps happening all over the country. Maybe murder victims, corpses of dead women as well from when operations have gone wrong.

Surprised this news hasn`t spread to the Western media yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUir-LSQk38

Edited November 21, 2010 by Beetlejuice

[Scott]

The story was on CNN for a time when it first came out. As a matter of fact it was lead story.

[whybother]

The story was on CNN for a time when it first came out. As a matter of fact it was lead story.

It's also in the Australian papers today.

[animatic]

The aborted foetuses are the end result of adults' ignorance as much as youngsters' naivety.

Of course the childrens naivety is caused by the parents ignorance.

There is no mechanism nor cultural incentive to hunt down dead beat fathers, which are pretty much the norm, and not the exception.

It will be easier to teach sex education than to re-teach young Thai men to ignore their mai-bpen rai cultural upbringing and suddenly become responsible in youth for their children of chance. Once the girl 'gives in', or gets pregnant, they look on her as damaged goods andher status is lowered, and then it's easier to dump them and move to the next conquest.

Most young people are somewhat irresponsible, but Thai boys / young men seem to have taken it to an art form with their actions towards girls. This is explained by the Thai Chick Music we hear daily. Their biggest hope and fantasy dream is the Thai boy who will stick by them through thick and thin, is loving, honest and pretty, In other words the music market caters to the young girls dreams of what they think life should be, which is far removed from their reality, sad to say.

I imagine it must be extremely jarring to have the reality of a unwanted pregnancy from ignorance, and/or 'being played' but a cute Thai boy, till she's pregnant and then dumped, her school will throw her out in a few months for being pregnant, her family will often try to hide her, if they keep her with them. The girls fathers will often shun them, mothers will deal with it, but out of sight of father.

And then the 'damaged goods' will be sent off to Pattaya to make money for the family as grannie takes care of the baby. The girl is damaged now, no 'good man' will take her, so time to be useful as a profit center. The boys are taught by the culture to be cool and free and not to worry about things. Plenty of girls out there, move on.

The heavily patriarchal and mai bpen rai culture is chewing up and spitting out these daughters of Thailand and their children. Often because they think educating them or providing, sex education, post pregnancy services or options encourages more girls to have sex.

When the obvious reality is none of their self-limited social mechanisms have done ANYTHING to stop teenagers from having sex and getting pregnant from ignorance of their own biological functioning, until it's TOO LATE.

Then the jaundiced blind eye is turned their way forever.

Edited November 21, 2010 by animatic

[TechnikaIII]

One could suggest changes, using the Scandinavian approach as a guide. But of course, each feature in any one society is the product of that society as a whole, the whole package, including social welfare and the taxation that is a necessary component.

There are complete sex education classes in Norwegian secondary schools, everything short of actually doing it, flesh to flesh in the classroom. No question is left unanswered. The kids are informed. It does not solve all problems, but there are no mountains of foetuses to conceal.

The above mentioned "mai pen rai" could also be addressed at the community level, but only where there is a 'City Mayor' who will dare to take the bull by the horns.

Of course most things in Thailand are about money, or the lack of it. To cure 'mai pen rai' is a monumental task. In the absense of personal and social responsibilty, there needs to be another incentive.

[ChiangMaiFun]

The aborted foetuses are the end result of adults' ignorance as much as youngsters' naivety.

Of course the childrens naivety is caused by the parents ignorance.

There is no mechanism nor cultural incentive to hunt down dead beat fathers, which are pretty much the norm, and not the exception.

It will be easier to teach sex education than to re-teach young Thai men to ignore their mai-bpen rai cultural upbringing and suddenly become responsible in youth for their children of chance. Once the girl 'gives in', or gets pregnant, they look on her as damaged goods andher status is lowered, and then it's easier to dump them and move to the next conquest.

Most young people are somewhat irresponsible, but Thai boys / young men seem to have taken it to an art form with their actions towards girls. This is explained by the Thai Chick Music we hear daily. Their biggest hope and fantasy dream is the Thai boy who will stick by them through thick and thin, is loving, honest and pretty, In other words the music market caters to the young girls dreams of what they think life should be, which is far removed from their reality, sad to say.

I imagine it must be extremely jarring to have the reality of a unwanted pregnancy from ignorance, and/or 'being played' but a cute Thai boy, till she's pregnant and then dumped, her school will throw her out in a few months for being pregnant, her family will often try to hide her, if they keep her with them. The girls fathers will often shun them, mothers will deal with it, but out of sight of father.

And then the 'damaged goods' will be sent off to Pattaya to make money for the family as grannie takes care of the baby. The girl is damaged now, no 'good man' will take her, so time to be useful as a profit center. The boys are taught by the culture to be cool and free and not to worry about things. Plenty of girls out there, move on.

The heavily patriarchal and mai bpen rai culture is chewing up and spitting out these daughters of Thailand and their children. Often because they think educating them or providing, sex education, post pregnancy services or options encourages more girls to have sex.

When the obvious reality is none of their self-limited social mechanisms have done ANYTHING to stop teenagers from having sex and getting pregnant from ignorance of their own biological functioning, until it's TOO LATE.

Then the jaundiced blind eye is turned their way forever.

That is all true - but one other thing that 'could' help is an understanding of Buddism and it's focus on personal responsibility - if the Sangha led a bit more and this basic precept was taught and understood maybe... just maybe... Thai boys might consider the other persons feelings and future and their personal karmic 'reward' which, I might add, will be devestating if they have had a child and not supported the Mother.

[animatic]

The aborted foetuses are the end result of adults' ignorance as much as youngsters' naivety.

Of course the childrens naivety is caused by the parents ignorance.

There is no mechanism nor cultural incentive to hunt down dead beat fathers, which are pretty much the norm, and not the exception.

It will be easier to teach sex education than to re-teach young Thai men to ignore their mai-bpen rai cultural upbringing and suddenly become responsible in youth for their children of chance. Once the girl 'gives in', or gets pregnant, they look on her as damaged goods andher status is lowered, and then it's easier to dump them and move to the next conquest.

Most young people are somewhat irresponsible, but Thai boys / young men seem to have taken it to an art form with their actions towards girls. This is explained by the Thai Chick Music we hear daily. Their biggest hope and fantasy dream is the Thai boy who will stick by them through thick and thin, is loving, honest and pretty, In other words the music market caters to the young girls dreams of what they think life should be, which is far removed from their reality, sad to say.

I imagine it must be extremely jarring to have the reality of a unwanted pregnancy from ignorance, and/or 'being played' but a cute Thai boy, till she's pregnant and then dumped, her school will throw her out in a few months for being pregnant, her family will often try to hide her, if they keep her with them. The girls fathers will often shun them, mothers will deal with it, but out of sight of father.

And then the 'damaged goods' will be sent off to Pattaya to make money for the family as grannie takes care of the baby. The girl is damaged now, no 'good man' will take her, so time to be useful as a profit center. The boys are taught by the culture to be cool and free and not to worry about things. Plenty of girls out there, move on.

The heavily patriarchal and mai bpen rai culture is chewing up and spitting out these daughters of Thailand and their children. Often because they think educating them or providing, sex education, post pregnancy services or options encourages more girls to have sex.

When the obvious reality is none of their self-limited social mechanisms have done ANYTHING to stop teenagers from having sex and getting pregnant from ignorance of their own biological functioning, until it's TOO LATE.

Then the jaundiced blind eye is turned their way forever.

That is all true - but one other thing that 'could' help is an understanding of Buddism and it's focus on personal responsibility - if the Sangha led a bit more and this basic precept was taught and understood maybe... just maybe... Thai boys might consider the other persons feelings and future and their personal karmic 'reward' which, I might add, will be devestating if they have had a child and not supported the Mother.

Sadly the Buddhism practiced is not the same as the Buddhism preached.

[ChiangMaiFun]

The aborted foetuses are the end result of adults' ignorance as much as youngsters' naivety.

Of course the childrens naivety is caused by the parents ignorance.

There is no mechanism nor cultural incentive to hunt down dead beat fathers, which are pretty much the norm, and not the exception.

It will be easier to teach sex education than to re-teach young Thai men to ignore their mai-bpen rai cultural upbringing and suddenly become responsible in youth for their children of chance. Once the girl 'gives in', or gets pregnant, they look on her as damaged goods andher status is lowered, and then it's easier to dump them and move to the next conquest.

Most young people are somewhat irresponsible, but Thai boys / young men seem to have taken it to an art form with their actions towards girls. This is explained by the Thai Chick Music we hear daily. Their biggest hope and fantasy dream is the Thai boy who will stick by them through thick and thin, is loving, honest and pretty, In other words the music market caters to the young girls dreams of what they think life should be, which is far removed from their reality, sad to say.

I imagine it must be extremely jarring to have the reality of a unwanted pregnancy from ignorance, and/or 'being played' but a cute Thai boy, till she's pregnant and then dumped, her school will throw her out in a few months for being pregnant, her family will often try to hide her, if they keep her with them. The girls fathers will often shun them, mothers will deal with it, but out of sight of father.

And then the 'damaged goods' will be sent off to Pattaya to make money for the family as grannie takes care of the baby. The girl is damaged now, no 'good man' will take her, so time to be useful as a profit center. The boys are taught by the culture to be cool and free and not to worry about things. Plenty of girls out there, move on.

The heavily patriarchal and mai bpen rai culture is chewing up and spitting out these daughters of Thailand and their children. Often because they think educating them or providing, sex education, post pregnancy services or options encourages more girls to have sex.

When the obvious reality is none of their self-limited social mechanisms have done ANYTHING to stop teenagers from having sex and getting pregnant from ignorance of their own biological functioning, until it's TOO LATE.

Then the jaundiced blind eye is turned their way forever.

That is all true - but one other thing that 'could' help is an understanding of Buddism and it's focus on personal responsibility - if the Sangha led a bit more and this basic precept was taught and understood maybe... just maybe... Thai boys might consider the other persons feelings and future and their personal karmic 'reward' which, I might add, will be devestating if they have had a child and not supported the Mother.

Sadly the Buddhism practiced is not the same as the Buddhism preached.

Now that is so true... but I believe the Sangha 'should' lead - now wouldn't that be a first!

[Gonsalviz]

Always use condoms and/or other contraceptives, problem solved. But then that would seem to approve pre-marital and teen sex - which is not acceptable. That's the real problem

That won't work at all the Catholic schools.

[reason1]

News Pope is condoning use of condoms in book of interview to be published next couple of days; not sure if it is just for Priests though

[paulmw]

The aborted foetuses are the end result of adults' ignorance as much as youngsters' naivety.

Of course the childrens naivety is caused by the parents ignorance.

There is no mechanism nor cultural incentive to hunt down dead beat fathers, which are pretty much the norm, and not the exception.

It will be easier to teach sex education than to re-teach young Thai men to ignore their mai-bpen rai cultural upbringing and suddenly become responsible in youth for their children of chance. Once the girl 'gives in', or gets pregnant, they look on her as damaged goods andher status is lowered, and then it's easier to dump them and move to the next conquest.

Most young people are somewhat irresponsible, but Thai boys / young men seem to have taken it to an art form with their actions towards girls. This is explained by the Thai Chick Music we hear daily. Their biggest hope and fantasy dream is the Thai boy who will stick by them through thick and thin, is loving, honest and pretty, In other words the music market caters to the young girls dreams of what they think life should be, which is far removed from their reality, sad to say.

I imagine it must be extremely jarring to have the reality of a unwanted pregnancy from ignorance, and/or 'being played' but a cute Thai boy, till she's pregnant and then dumped, her school will throw her out in a few months for being pregnant, her family will often try to hide her, if they keep her with them. The girls fathers will often shun them, mothers will deal with it, but out of sight of father.

And then the 'damaged goods' will be sent off to Pattaya to make money for the family as grannie takes care of the baby. The girl is damaged now, no 'good man' will take her, so time to be useful as a profit center. The boys are taught by the culture to be cool and free and not to worry about things. Plenty of girls out there, move on.

The heavily patriarchal and mai bpen rai culture is chewing up and spitting out these daughters of Thailand and their children. Often because they think educating them or providing, sex education, post pregnancy services or options encourages more girls to have sex.

When the obvious reality is none of their self-limited social mechanisms have done ANYTHING to stop teenagers from having sex and getting pregnant from ignorance of their own biological functioning, until it's TOO LATE.

Then the jaundiced blind eye is turned their way forever.

That is all true - but one other thing that 'could' help is an understanding of Buddism and it's focus on personal responsibility - if the Sangha led a bit more and this basic precept was taught and understood maybe... just maybe... Thai boys might consider the other persons feelings and future and their personal karmic 'reward' which, I might add, will be devestating if they have had a child and not supported the Mother.

Sadly the Buddhism practiced is not the same as the Buddhism preached.

[paulmw]

The aborted foetuses are the end result of adults' ignorance as much as youngsters' naivety.

Of course the childrens naivety is caused by the parents ignorance.

There is no mechanism nor cultural incentive to hunt down dead beat fathers, which are pretty much the norm, and not the exception.

It will be easier to teach sex education than to re-teach young Thai men to ignore their mai-bpen rai cultural upbringing and suddenly become responsible in youth for their children of chance. Once the girl 'gives in', or gets pregnant, they look on her as damaged goods andher status is lowered, and then it's easier to dump them and move to the next conquest.

Most young people are somewhat irresponsible, but Thai boys / young men seem to have taken it to an art form with their actions towards girls. This is explained by the Thai Chick Music we hear daily. Their biggest hope and fantasy dream is the Thai boy who will stick by them through thick and thin, is loving, honest and pretty, In other words the music market caters to the young girls dreams of what they think life should be, which is far removed from their reality, sad to say.

I imagine it must be extremely jarring to have the reality of a unwanted pregnancy from ignorance, and/or 'being played' but a cute Thai boy, till she's pregnant and then dumped, her school will throw her out in a few months for being pregnant, her family will often try to hide her, if they keep her with them. The girls fathers will often shun them, mothers will deal with it, but out of sight of father.

And then the 'damaged goods' will be sent off to Pattaya to make money for the family as grannie takes care of the baby. The girl is damaged now, no 'good man' will take her, so time to be useful as a profit center. The boys are taught by the culture to be cool and free and not to worry about things. Plenty of girls out there, move on.

The heavily patriarchal and mai bpen rai culture is chewing up and spitting out these daughters of Thailand and their children. Often because they think educating them or providing, sex education, post pregnancy services or options encourages more girls to have sex.

When the obvious reality is none of their self-limited social mechanisms have done ANYTHING to stop teenagers from having sex and getting pregnant from ignorance of their own biological functioning, until it's TOO LATE.

Then the jaundiced blind eye is turned their way forever.

The three words that will screw up Thai culture in the end MAI-BPEN-RAI.

Edited November 21, 2010 by paulmw

[reason1]

I posted the Thread killing news about the Pope and condoms because the posts were all too Catholic for me and depressing; blame without much compassion for the girls/ladies who had suffered in more than one way. Hail to any/all support for education and legalized safe abortions. Whats dead is dead n cant go back; bit more dignity in disposal will help.

[loser1]

Always use condoms and/or other contraceptives, problem solved. But then that would seem to approve pre-marital and teen sex - which is not acceptable. That's the real problem

The problem is an underdeveloped culture - in many areas 'we have no prostitution', 'we don't have abortion' bla bla bla

It's the hypocritical bit I find the most distasteful - I love it here but Thais just can't stand the truth - bury it... 'mai pen rai' they ignore all the problems and don't want to know their kids are having sex at teenage years up - same as ignoring sexual abuse of kids, gay issues and all the rest - it doesn't exist!

What gay issues?

[jayjay0]

The aborted foetuses are the end result of adults' ignorance as much as youngsters' naivety.

Of course the childrens naivety is caused by the parents ignorance.

There is no mechanism nor cultural incentive to hunt down dead beat fathers, which are pretty much the norm, and not the exception.

It will be easier to teach sex education than to re-teach young Thai men to ignore their mai-bpen rai cultural upbringing and suddenly become responsible in youth for their children of chance. Once the girl 'gives in', or gets pregnant, they look on her as damaged goods andher status is lowered, and then it's easier to dump them and move to the next conquest.

Most young people are somewhat irresponsible, but Thai boys / young men seem to have taken it to an art form with their actions towards girls. This is explained by the Thai Chick Music we hear daily. Their biggest hope and fantasy dream is the Thai boy who will stick by them through thick and thin, is loving, honest and pretty, In other words the music market caters to the young girls dreams of what they think life should be, which is far removed from their reality, sad to say.

I imagine it must be extremely jarring to have the reality of a unwanted pregnancy from ignorance, and/or 'being played' but a cute Thai boy, till she's pregnant and then dumped, her school will throw her out in a few months for being pregnant, her family will often try to hide her, if they keep her with them. The girls fathers will often shun them, mothers will deal with it, but out of sight of father.

And then the 'damaged goods' will be sent off to Pattaya to make money for the family as grannie takes care of the baby. The girl is damaged now, no 'good man' will take her, so time to be useful as a profit center. The boys are taught by the culture to be cool and free and not to worry about things. Plenty of girls out there, move on.

The heavily patriarchal and mai bpen rai culture is chewing up and spitting out these daughters of Thailand and their children. Often because they think educating them or providing, sex education, post pregnancy services or options encourages more girls to have sex.

When the obvious reality is none of their self-limited social mechanisms have done ANYTHING to stop teenagers from having sex and getting pregnant from ignorance of their own biological functioning, until it's TOO LATE.

Then the jaundiced blind eye is turned their way forever.

What you say is true. I take a different attitude to stopping the problem. If it is a Thai problem and not just a Westerner trying to impose western standards.

1 I except the fact that it is not going to be a quick fix.

2 Don't try

3 put the money and effort into catching the kids before they can learn these attitudes.

It is a waste of money and time trying to give a set of contradictory values to some one who has grown up with the opposite.

I know people will say it can't be done I beg to differ it can be done just not over night.

If any of the other methods would work over night problem solved. Go out in the world and see where countries are having some success see what they are doing. See what countries are doing that is not working and don't try that.

It is a well known fact that if you can teach values before they are five they will carry them for the rest of there lives. Of cource they have been known to forget then in there teens only to return to them later.

When I was younger in the 70s they were having a problem with teen agers. There was many methods out there how to fix the problem now. Here we are forty years later and they are having more problems. And the ones they could have reached out to in there first five years of life were left to develop the same as there older peers. JMO

Edited November 22, 2010 by jayjay0