Thai Minister Vows To Hold Men Responsible For Pregnancies

[tomyummer]

I wish some of the parents of politicians had practiced birth control. They should also be held responsible for the actions of their kids.

I can just see all the false accusations and waste of time with DNA testing.

Whatever happened to the Film and Annie show?

Edited December 1, 2010 by tomyummer

[supaprik]

Thailand is not a third world country it must abandon it's attitude toward men on this subject.""

Not third world?..You cannot be serious..Thailand is so third world it's not funny. No rights for women, no welfare for those who need it, spirits and ghosts.....Get real

[tonititan]

No one forces Thai women to point their feet in the air and have unprotected sex. Why blame only the men? It all seems a bit Thai to me. Oh wait!!!

Yeah they do. They're called rapists. And in a male-dominated society, it probably happens way more than we ever hear about, even within a relationship.

Putting aside the rape issue, though, and focusing on "normal" unwanted pregnancies, I don't think anyone is trying to blame ONLY the men. Although the minister's ideas may not be effective, it seems that the motive is a move towards equal accountability. I think that's the right thing to do. It takes two to create the situation of an unplanned pregnancy. Just like you said that no one forces women to "point their feet in the air and have unprotected sex," no one forces Thai/foreign men to have unprotected sex either. What, do the women forcibly rip off the condom that the man insists on wearing?

[featography]

Thailand really need to come out of the dark ages on this subject.

"The network also asked for urgent measures to reduce the number of babies being abandoned and illegal abortions, and centres offering help to rape victims who become pregnant."

I hope they work out a protective fair law so there isnt a sweeping climb in numbers of women screaming RAPE.

[creck]

“if a lady has already had the illegal abortion. then how can u prove who the farther is”

I think you should say ‘why do you need to prove’

Are you suggesting that when a girl becomes pregnant she knows who the father is? You cannot prove it until you have the baby to test. Proof must be necessary. Maybe you can test before birth but I assume that would be a bit late for an easy abortion.

I would bet that very nearly all of those mothers who had an abortion in such a way did not know which man was the father. A lot just regard it as a risk of the job. I doubt very much if rape was involved in but a few.

Remember it takes two, both must take responsibility.

At least we need a campaign to help girls to refuse a coupling “no con dom no boom boom” or “No skin you don’t get in”. Clearly some pressure on the girls’ boss is needed; they pressure the girls not to refuse.

[MikeyIdea]

I don't think there is only good in this. Thai law does protect the children well and it recognises how very bad many "fathers" are. So well that it gives the mother sole custody unless the father confirms his committment by registering a legal marriage (or confim in court, amphur when child gets approx 7 if all agree). Current law tries to protect the child and it does a pretty good job, the problem is more that so few people know the law

The second the father is made to pay, then he also has a right to part of the possession of the child. It will have to be proven that the father is dangerous for the child before his right to possession is removed.

It is not unusual even today that bad fathers are using the child/children to not let the mother go - if you leave then I take the child - I have heard this more than once among poor women, they choose to stay and be abused because they think they will lose their child if they leave. Thai law actually protects those children and mothers well today, problem is that they don't know it...

Shall we start with communication and enforce current laws?

[MikeyIdea]

Men are already responsible for pregnancies under Thai law, it is called child support. Maybe the minister can improve the enforcement for paying child support.

Yep, there's that law. But I have yet to hear from any Thai person who is aware of it in the first place, and from any single mother who received child support after the guy's left...

Here's a first one then. I know many Thais who are aware of the law and several single women who get child support, all of them are middle class. We have several people upcountry on our payroll (whom I don't personally know) that are treated separately at salary time, money is withheld by court order. Most are bank debts but there is also child alimony among them

This is the same problem everywhere. There is a system to collect money but it only works for people who work and pay tax

[bitterbatter]

Sure being responsible is important. But their is another side to this coin. That is the financial impact on the family unit. I have seen the child support system go out of control in the US. It is common now for women to get pregnant just in order to receive child support and not have to work. Often the costs are way above what the man's job is able to make and share fairly. This has disastorous consequences. Then deadbeat dads can even lose their driver's license and passport if they fall behind on payments, and not being able to drive usually makes it very difficult to work. Between this system and the divorce alimony the family isn't what it used to be when I was young. Thailand still has at it roots good families and sense of community. My advice they had better step wisely here and find the best system for this lest they base rules on a bad system. Using financial punishments need to be fair and reasonable. :jap:

[samjaidee]

How about preventing unwanted pregnancies in the first case? Contraceptives of all kinds have been available for many decades - educate people to use them

Indeed.

And blaming worries about money as a reason for abortion is despicable. That is committing murder for monetary gain/prevention of loss. Nothing noble or right about that. What is next, it is ok if a woman commits infanticide if the husband/bf leaves her in the first 2 years of the child's life?

Until both genders can carry a child there can never be equality as the man has *NO* rights whatsoever until the child is born. Only responsibilities. Gender equality, eh?

Are you suggesting that a country like the UK, which has legal abortions, has legalised a form of murder, in the guise of abortion? Catholic are you? Maybe if you're lucky you'll come to your senses as you mature.

[MikeyIdea]

Sure being responsible is important. But their is another side to this coin. That is the financial impact on the family unit. I have seen the child support system go out of control in the US. It is common now for women to get pregnant just in order to receive child support and not have to work. Often the costs are way above what the man's job is able to make and share fairly. This has disastorous consequences. Then deadbeat dads can even lose their driver's license and passport if they fall behind on payments, and not being able to drive usually makes it very difficult to work. Between this system and the divorce alimony the family isn't what it used to be when I was young. Thailand still has at it roots good families and sense of community. My advice they had better step wisely here and find the best system for this lest they base rules on a bad system. Using financial punishments need to be fair and reasonable. :jap:

The legal system in the US have lost touch with what the intent of the law actually once was, the implementation of the laws in this area doesn't necessarily protect the child any longer, there are too many other things that also has been mixed in.

Sweden and Thailand are good samples: Child alimony is ONLY for the child, fathers and mothers have equal possibility. The US is just a good sample of a very bad implementation oj juvenile law

[tonititan]

I would bet that very nearly all of those mothers who had an abortion in such a way did not know which man was the father. A lot just regard it as a risk of the job. I doubt very much if rape was involved in but a few.

I think it's important to keep in mind that not all of the women seeking abortions are "working girls." (I'm not saying that is what you are implying....I don't know what you mean by "in such a way.") A lot of them are probably young girls who have been impregnated by their boyfriends, and even married women who are afraid that their families cannot financially support another child. In these cases, the women would know who the father of the child is.

In my opinion, it's wrong to assume that abortion = promiscuity.

[hungryhippo]

- legalize abortion until a certain point in the pregnancy

- allow women to go give birth anonymously, effectively abandoning their child if it is unwanted

it is not so difficult, is it?

That would be too easy. They'd rather be hypocrites and tell people that they must be forced to believe in Budda's teachings such as abortion being illegal. Forget the fact that Budda himself said that the religion should not be forced upon people, these old men have a point to prove and they're not going to stop until they can control what bodily fluids a women can and can not take out of their bodies between periods.

Edited December 2, 2010 by hungryhippo

[pacovl46]

use some fricking condoms!!!!! god. if they're old enough to f..k they're also old enough to stop at a 7 11 and get some rubbers first!!!

[surayu]

oh you are dumber then dirt. Omama???? Jerk just shut your mouth. ass wipe

Did i make you pregnant Diehard60 ? sorry, i told you that was not a good idea

[Arkady]

Kudos to the government's effort to establish shared paternal responsibilities. It's long overdue. One wonders how many of the abortions were conducted out of the woman's concern that she faced the prospect of raising the child alone and without any financial or emotional support from the father.

You don't get it, do you? This is just a fudge to pretend to be doing something because politicians don't want to deal with the threat of backlash from bogus religious outfits with hidden political agendas like the right wing goons who tried to hold Thai Beverage to ransom by derailing its plan to list on the Thai Stock Exchange with protests by people wearing saffron robes. Thai Beverage refused to pay up and went South to list in Singapore instead but who is going to help the gymslip mothers. Thailand needs to acknowledge the sweeping changes that have taken place in society and reform abortion laws to permit voluntary termination for women who get pregnant by mistake, or at the very least for young women under a certain age, as well as introduce sex education in schools (another taboo). Thailand is already unable to enforce its child support and alimony laws in the case in divorce cases which apply to only a very small percentage of single mothers because the majority of Thais don't register their marriages and there is no legal concept of common law marriage. So how is it going to deal with the millions of dead beat dads who never married the mother or didn't even realize she got pregnant because they were long gone before anything showed? Such a law is impractical and nothing is going to happen but bold statements of that type serve to fill up the tabloids until the public has lost interest in the story of the foetus stockpile and the politicians can back their real business of sticking their snouts in the trough.

Edited December 2, 2010 by Arkady

[Buchholz]

Kudos to the government's effort to establish shared paternal responsibilities. It's long overdue. One wonders how many of the abortions were conducted out of the woman's concern that she faced the prospect of raising the child alone and without any financial or emotional support from the father.

You don't get it, do you? This is just a fudge to pretend to be doing something because politicians don't want to deal with the threat of backlash from bogus religious outfits with hidden political agendas

Thailand needs to acknowledge the sweeping changes that have taken place in society and reform abortion laws to permit voluntary termination for women who get pregnant by mistake, or at the very least for young women under a certain age, as well as introduce sex education in schools (another taboo).

Thailand is already unable to enforce its child support and alimony laws in the case in divorce cases which apply to only a very small percentage of single mothers because the majority of Thais don't register their marriages and there is no legal concept of common law marriage. So how is it going to deal with the millions of dead beat dads who never married the mother or didn't even realize she got pregnant because they were long gone before anything showed? Such a law is impractical and nothing is going to happen but bold statements of that type serve to fill up the tabloids until the public has lost interest in the story of the foetus stockpile and the politicians can back their real business of sticking their snouts in the trough.

I didn't say I oppose abortion because I don't. I'm pro-choice, but I'm also pro-shared responsibility and anti-dead beat fathers.

I'm additionally pro-sex education and pro-pregnancy prevention.

If these actions in the OP occur, it will help deal with these matters.

Sure we can all pooh-pooh the efforts and cast it aside out of hand before it's even enacted, but I'd prefer to wait and see what happens.

Irregardless of whether all the measures actually happen, it has helped bring the issue to the forefront and even if that attention is fleeting, it was more attention than was previously afforded it.

[WaatWang]

How about preventing unwanted pregnancies in the first case? Contraceptives of all kinds have been available for many decades - educate people to use them

Indeed.

And blaming worries about money as a reason for abortion is despicable. That is committing murder for monetary gain/prevention of loss. Nothing noble or right about that. What is next, it is ok if a woman commits infanticide if the husband/bf leaves her in the first 2 years of the child's life?

Until both genders can carry a child there can never be equality as the man has *NO* rights whatsoever until the child is born. Only responsibilities. Gender equality, eh?

Are you suggesting that a country like the UK, which has legal abortions, has legalised a form of murder, in the guise of abortion? Catholic are you? Maybe if you're lucky you'll come to your senses as you mature.

Thanks, SamJaiDee. I'm with you.

I also believe that having worries about money is certainly not despicable. Here in Thailand there is no safety net. There is no medicaid to pay for doctor visits or the delivery. There is no welfare system to make sure mother or baby would have food in their bellies or a place to live. There are no free wellness visits for the baby to make sure they get the right vaccinations or doctor's visits if they get sick. There is no system in place to help mom find and pay for a good babysitter so she can go back to work, or job training so she can actually find a job that will pay her a sustainable wage.

Obviously using contraceptives in the first place to prevent a pregnancy is ideal. But beyond that point a woman's choices are limited. Considering whether you have enough money to have a baby is called being RESPONSIBLE.

[atyclb]

Send all the babies as Sara Pailins grandchildren....

[Footloose1949]

My 'take' on Thai culture/society is that as has already been said, is that women are pretty much expected to 'tow the line' and accept the demands of men. Furthermore, Thais are mainly Buddhists and comply with his teachings, a bit like Roman Catholics, but with one fundamental difference which is that contraception is permitted. Thailand for some years now has been promoting safe sex and contraception, with a number of high profile individuals such as the man who runs the 'Cabbages and Condoms' restaurants, doing a lot of good work in this area.

The sticking-point would seem to be legalising abortions, and my limited knowledge of Buddhism leads me to conclude that it is the 'killing' of the unborn, which is causing considerable hand-wringing. Until some way of reconciling this issue via the Priesthood is arrived at, so that a time deemed appropriate is arrived at, this is going to remain a 'problem'. The 'Morning After pill seems to be tolerated, but what other solutions are available to women, if this accepted strategy fails?

Of course there are also a considerable number of selfish men who just refuse to use condoms, and I suspect, many of the bodies discovered, are the consequences of their actions. If a woman is placed in the situation where they cannot get, or are refused access, to things like the Morning After' pill, an abortion, or giving birth to an unplanned/unwanted child is the only available alternative.

We should be thankful that the Roman Catholic church hasn't a greater hold on Thai society, as their principles are a lot more strict in this matter than Buddhism is!

Maybe if the Morning After or Contraceptive pill was easier to get hold of, we would not be reading about these highly disturbing and harrowing discoveries?

[moetownblues]

Unfortunately, with the male mentality as it is in Thailand, don't be surprised to see more murders of women who threaten to hold the sperm donors responsible for the support of their babies. The whole culture of male privilege needs to be changed from birth on. I doubt that any male fathering a child will be imprisoned for not paying support. No matter what the government vows to do, it can't change the national mindset.

No Thai male perhaps, but I see a new avenue opening up for Bar Girls and the BIB!

Don't forget the perks for the people in the DNA labs, 10,000 baht twelve (12) reports all with a different farangs name on it, liaise with your BIB mates and let the extortion begin.

But seriously if you are the confirmed father then you should make a contribution.

[sydneyjed]

Using fikin condoms pakov may not be an option if the girl is being raped, having unconsensual sex,family member involved ..and/or a virgin...in that situation she has no rights !!!A whole lot of other issues have to be considered(as his always the case in these situations)It's never what it always seems in many instances...Shame,ostrasized from the village and labelled..these are just a few scenarios..it's not always clear cut boyfriend /girlfriend = pregnancy!

Edited December 9, 2010 by sydneyjed