Cannot Have Spirit House

[tomahawk]

I know this is not really about Buddhism, but I thought someone here could help. I bought house from farang and his Thai wife. Naturally it is really in his wife's name and now my wife's, but you know how it goes. Anyway I agreed to pay every month until house is paid up, and signed contract. In contract it says that no spirit house can be built on property until it is fully paid off, which is in 14 years. While this is nothing to me, of course my wife is somewhat confused and upset about this. Landlord will not allow spirit house because if he has to reclaim house, he wdoes not want spirit house as it is against his own religious beliefs. His wife is also Christian. My question is , is there some way to keep spirits out of house without spirit house, according to the Tahi customs and beliefs.

[Brucenkhamen]

Good on the landlord I say.

Just tell your wife it's pretty common knowledge that spirits don't like going into houses accupied by farang, so she won't need one.

[harrry]

I cannot see how you have bought the house. It is an assignment of land for more than 30 years so any contract not registered with the land office would suirely be invalid.

[afarang]

Not true, The O.P. stated ,he bought it is wifes name.He only paid for it. As we all have done. His problem seems to be religious intolerance. I symphathise with him,as Particularly in Isarn ,you could be forgiven for thinking that a house is not a home ,until it has a spirit house. Animists all.

[harrry]

Not true, The O.P. stated ,he bought it is wifes name.He only paid for it. As we all have done. His problem seems to be religious intolerance. I symphathise with him,as Particularly in Isarn ,you could be forgiven for thinking that a house is not a home ,until it has a spirit house. Animists all.

He has not paid for it. The chanote is either in her name, in which case she can have a spirit house, or in the landlorgs name as an unregistered lease.

If it is a condition of the mortgage I am sure any thai court would strike it out.

[trogers]

Why not build an altar against an external wall of the house for the time being?

[christiaan]

I would advise first to observe if there realy are spirits in the house.

Why have a spirithouse when there are no spirits in the house?

So maybe you could start to look for a solution after you have met and see the first spirit?

Maybe it is possible to ask the spirit to help solve this problem?

But on the other hand , it is always good to work about a solution on forehand.

[richard_smith237]

Simply buy one of the 'statue' type spirit house and place it in the corner of the garden. You are not damaging any property and well within moral confines to conform with your wifes spiritual and non-imposing beliefs.

Tell the fellow you are buying the house from that if there are any issues and he has to take the house back you will remove the spirit house then.

[sabaijai]

Simply buy one of the 'statue' type spirit house and place it in the corner of the garden. You are not damaging any property and well within moral confines to conform with your wifes spiritual and non-imposing beliefs.

Tell the fellow you are buying the house from that if there are any issues and he has to take the house back you will remove the spirit house then.

Once you've paid the down payment and signed the contract, you and your wife own the house. I doubt he can stop you from building anything you want.

[tomahawk]

Thank you for advice. many good ideas and am not sure yet which one to follow. Problem is although I think perhaps legally could still build spirit house, seller has been very cordial and agreeable about payments and other issues so I do not want to create bad feelings. However I think perhaps if I agree to remove house in case of default, he would be agreeable to this.

[siam2007]

Thank you for advice. many good ideas and am not sure yet which one to follow. Problem is although I think perhaps legally could still build spirit house, seller has been very cordial and agreeable about payments and other issues so I do not want to create bad feelings. However I think perhaps if I agree to remove house in case of default, he would be agreeable to this.

do as Sabaijai said and don't let the "Christians" once again damage the local culture and customs.....

[beechguy]

Simply buy one of the 'statue' type spirit house and place it in the corner of the garden. You are not damaging any property and well within moral confines to conform with your wifes spiritual and non-imposing beliefs.

Tell the fellow you are buying the house from that if there are any issues and he has to take the house back you will remove the spirit house then.

Once you've paid the down payment and signed the contract, you and your wife own the house. I doubt he can stop you from building anything you want.

No they do not own it until the contract is complete, see what happens when people don't make their payments. But, hopefully some sort of compromise can be reached.

Edited December 4, 2010 by beechguy

[surayu]

I would advise first to observe if there realy are spirits in the house.

[harrry]

I would be woried about the house.

It either is registered as hers and she has the chanote with a registered mortgageor she has a contract which is basically a lease for more than 3 years which is not enforceable.

Also the constitution gives a right to freedom to worship so any attempt to stop that would be ilegal.

[christiaan]

I would advise first to observe if there realy are spirits in the house.

in their house,.................. not in yours

[maccaroni man]

many complex type housing developments have central spirit house rather than each house having it's own, after all the value of the offering is in the spirit of the way it is given.

[bina]

spirit houses arent for the house per say but for the land the house is built on; ive seen thais here put spirit houses in all sorts of wierd places cause most jewish moshav landlords dont like 'pagan' type things on their property, and it is usually on their property since the landlord is also the employer and the house /caravan is part of the payment. what they do is put one up somewhere not too obvious , a small one, and seems to be movable i.e. from wood, and just a wooden post, w/o the ceramic tiling etc that many thais put around their large spirit houses. they are usually quite small and look more like bird houses, but innocuous and movable.

she can put one by a tree so that the landlord wont see it even if he knows its there, but its not sticking out like a sore thumb' she can check with her local wat what a good spot would be, there are various options. im surprised . most thai seem to allow a lot of room for menouver when its religioun involved.

bina

[tomahawk]

Perhaps moveable house is the answer. Landlord says he does not want spirit house because if he takes house back Thai people will not move house as it is bad luck. However I read that house can be moved if it is relocated to wat or placed under banyan tree. I do not understand this in a way because this muban is almost entirely Thai Buddhist people so it is unlikely any future buyers would be Christian. Apparently landlord has belief like the Jewish people mentioned in previous posting that spirit house will bring bad luck or anger God or something. I am not such a religious person , but I am Christian and I think perhaps God is more tolerant than many of his followers. All I know is this whole business seems to be an aggravating and unneccessary complication.

[cardholder]

If the house is in your wife's name then you have a mortgage.

This matter will be covered in the mortgage conditions.

I would consider:-

(a) Paying off the mortgage and saying <deleted> to the previous owner.

( Putting up the spirit house and say <deleted> to the previous owner - I assume he would need a court order to make you remove it.

Would an alien Christian go head to head with Thai authorities against a Buddhist symbol ??

I don't think so.

Edited December 5, 2010 by cardholder

[drtreelove]

Interesting subject. I just asked my wife what she would do in a similar situation, because she is very much into this business of spirits and appeasing them for harmony of the home. She likes Bina's idea and says that the pii baan is just a symbol, and what is important is in the heart, the quality, sincerity and consistency of the intentions and offerings. She says that you can use another object as a focal point for the practices; she would designate a specific tree and hang a flower pot, orchid, and/or place a pot and vase at the base for incense and flowers, etc.

[khaowong1]

Interesting subject. I just asked my wife what she would do in a similar situation, because she is very much into this business of spirits and appeasing them for harmony of the home. She likes Bina's idea and says that the pii baan is just a symbol, and what is important is in the heart, the quality, sincerity and consistency of the intentions and offerings. She says that you can use another object as a focal point for the practices; she would designate a specific tree and hang a flower pot, orchid, and/or place a pot and vase at the base for incense and flowers, etc.

I like this answer.. if your house doesn't have a tree, plant a nice size tree and make it the focal point for the spirits. We have several of these designated trees at our Wat and people are always putting fresh flowers and other offerings at them. In fact, I would offer the suggestion, that you go to your wifes Wat, explain the situation to the head abbot there and ask if you can have one of their trees then have a group of monks from your wifes Wat come and make the necessary blessings. There's not a court in Thailand that would make you remove it.

[satiariyan]

A spirit house is just one of many ways to keep spirits out of the main house by offering them alternative accommodations. The lack of a spirit house can easily be counter-balanced by hanging up a few more of the various items that supposedly helps keeping out spirits. My wife, although very Thai with no known Chinese ancestry, seems particular fond of small 8-edged mirrors in thick, red, wooden frames with Chinese writings on them. We also have a number of hollow thingies, I don't know how to describe, hanging around the perimeter. Supposedly, their shape and details should lure the spirits into them so they are trapped. Wind chimes should also have some protective powers. Like drtreelove's wife, my wife have no problem creating her spots where she can kneel down with incense and say her prayers and we don't even have a garden with trees - the corner of a small front porch next to a city street do just fine. An ordinary chair on the sidewalk suffices as an altar for food offerings and incense on the special days, there seem to be so many of.

On the other hand, in my opinion it would be karmic unwholesome for OP to put up a spirit house - even if it is a small, mobile one and even if it were well hidden behind the bushes in the darkest corner of the garden. As clearly stated by himself, it was an agreement with the landlord that there would be no spirit house on the premises.The OP knew why the landlord didn't want it, and he knew the landlord was serious enough in his belief as to make it not only a vocal agreement, but also a written one. Putting op a spirit house, under that circumstance may not be legally punishable, but it would fall into the category of moral falseness - and in this respect, it doesn't matter if the landlord doesn't ever learn about it.

Nevermind, it appears that OP has no intention to breach the agreement, anyway - despite having been advised to do so by some posters in this thread.

[Brucenkhamen]

Interesting subject. I just asked my wife what she would do in a similar situation, because she is very much into this business of spirits and appeasing them for harmony of the home. She likes Bina's idea and says that the pii baan is just a symbol, and what is important is in the heart, the quality, sincerity and consistency of the intentions and offerings. She says that you can use another object as a focal point for the practices; she would designate a specific tree and hang a flower pot, orchid, and/or place a pot and vase at the base for incense and flowers, etc.

I think here is your answer. Whoever said animism can't be practical.

Of course a better idea would be to learn a bit about Buddhism and realise these superstitions really aren't necessary, in fact are counterproductive.

[tomahawk]

Thank you for the many intelligent and rational answers. I think you have solved problem as wife is happy with these suggestions, such as the tree and chimes and mirrors and also about the philosophy regarding the whole issue. I agree perhaps court would not enforce rermoving spirit house but as other member states I did sign agreement to not put up house so I should honor it. In all other areas landlord has been very agreeable and fair. Although I really do not understand his religious beliefs fact is it is his house until paid off so I will have to work with it. I understand wife as I am native American and understand belief in spirits and such, so I respect her wishes but it seems all parties are satisfied and thank you very much.

[lungmi]

It's easy to check if there are phi (ghosts) in the spirit house. When you see dead dogs or birds around who has been punished by the ghost for pissing and shitting on him, you have the proof. (Tan Budddadasa).

For the superstitious Christians another advice by Tan Buddhadasa: the middle way to respect Thai Culture and to reject superstition. Give everything you want to the ghost house with samathit (awareness) and meditate about your duty

to take care of the household, for the garden, for the children, for good cooking etc.