Thaksin Is Seen In South Africa This Week

[Buchholz]

Thaksin to attend human rights violation hearing in US

BANGKOK, Dec 6 - Thailand's ousted ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra will visit the United States next week to testify on alleged human rights violations during Bangkok's deadly April-May political demonstrations after having been invited by the Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe (CSCE), according to his legal advisor Noppadon Pattama.

Mr Noppadon said Monday that the ex-premier is scheduled to arrive Washington Dec 16 after receiving an invitation letter from the CSCE a few days ago to give information regarding reported human rights violations in Thailand to the commission's hearing to be held mid-December.

The Thaksin legal adviser said the hearing focuses on human rights violations during the political disorder in April and May which led to a number of deaths and injuries as well as following up on the insurgency situation in Thailand's three restive southern provinces, and the violation of freedom of expression of the media and public opinion which have been caused by the enforcement of a state of emergency.

Mr Noppadon, who was foreign minister during the Samak Sundaravej administration, said that the deposed premier believes the hearing will be a good opportunity for him to give another version of facts on the matter, apart from the information of the Thai government given via diplomatic channels.

"Mr Thaksin has accepted the invitation to go to Washington so that the commission will get to know the truth about the matter," according to his close aide.

The former prime minister, removed by coup d'stat in Sept 2006, was not in Thailand during the period in question.

Eighty-nine people, including both security personnel and Red Shirt protesters, were killed and more than 1,400 were wounded during the ten-week demonstration of the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) against the Abhisit Vejjajiva government, with both sides blaming each other as the cause of violence.

The military operations to retake the protest site at Ratchaprasong intersection on May 19 prompted the Red Shirt leaders to call off the rally, followed by arson at a number of locations in Bangkok.

Key Red Shirt leaders remain jailed for having had key roles in the protest. The Thai capital and its three adjacent remain under a state of emergency.

The CSCE, also known as the Helsinki Commission, is an independent US Government agency created in 1976 to monitor and encourage compliance with the Helsinki Final Act and other OSCE commitments.

The Commission consists of nine members from the United States Senate, nine members from the US House of Representatives, and one member each from the Departments of State, Defense, and Commerce.

The Commission convenes public hearings and briefings with expert witnesses on OSCE-concerned issues, organises official delegations to participating States and OSCE meetings to address and assess democratic, economic, security and human rights developments firsthand.

Meanwhile, Chavanond Intarakomalyasut, secretary to the Thai Foreign Minister, said on Monday that he does not believe the convicted premier will be allowed to enter the US, while conceding that the foreign ministry has some information about Mr Thaksin's possible visit to the US but details cannot be disclosed.

Mr Chavanond also declined to comment on whether Mr Thaksin's entry to the US will affect the image of the Thai government.

When asked if the CSCE invitation would give Mr Thaksin the privilege to enter the US, the secretary said this should be irrelevant.

Deposed by a military coup in September 2006, Mr Thaksin is now living in exile abroad after evading a two-year jail term for violating a law on conflict of interest regarding a controversial Bangkok purchase of prime land.

In May this year Thailand's Criminal Court issued an arrest warrant for the ousted prime minister on terrorism charges for being behind and funding the violent actions of the Red Shirts which led to grenade attacks and arson in the Thai capital and provinces in the North and Northeast during the March-May demonstrations.

-- TNA 2010-12-06

[SkyHigh]

Deny, lie, deny, lie, cast blame elsewhere, falsely accuse others, deny and lie some more. That has always been Thaksin haters modus operandi...Expect more of the same, ad nauseum.

Its get simple boring.

If you wanna nail Thaksin, fine, but do it with some real facts and in a manner that is free of trashy arguments that can easily exposed as lies or just being plain stupid rants by simpletons.

Such tactic doesn't help the cause, if Thaksin is 'attacked' by idiots just makes him look better and damage the credibility of those who have some more serious allegation against him.

Thaksin haters share one common thing - chasing a lied hope desperately.

Last time they were talking about interpols catching Thaksin for terrorism charge.

LOL. Now they know how it goes.

Comeon, it doesnt take 1 sec for normal people to see it's a political bluff.

Somehow the haters took it wayy seriously. I guess it did take months ( or perhaps years for some) to realize that was a pure joke.

[hammered]

Quite right they should listen to Thaksins side and ask pertinent questions. They should also seek other views and question those.

[ballpoint]

Thaksin to attend human rights violation hearing in US

BANGKOK, Dec 6 - Thailand's ousted ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra will visit the United States next week to testify on alleged human rights violations during Bangkok's deadly April-May political demonstrations after having been invited by the Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe (CSCE), according to his legal advisor Noppadon Pattama...

Hmm, Victor Bout is handed to the Americans. Shortly afterwards they allegedly invite Thaksin to pay them a visit. Conspiracy theorists at the ready...

[Buchholz]

Foreign ministry ready to proceed extradition request of Thaksin from US if asked

BANGKOK, Dec 6 - Thailand's Ministry of Foreign Affairs on Monday said it is prepared to send an extradition request for ousted ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra to the United States if requested by the Office of Attorney-General as the deposed premier plans to testify on Thailand's crackdown of anti-government protesters in Bangkok to a US agency next week.

Acting foreign ministry spokesman Thani Thongpakdi remarked after Thaksin legal adviser Noppadon Pattama announced that the convicted ex-premier accepted an invitation from the Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe (CSCE) to testify on alleged human rights violations during Bangkok's deadly political demonstrations.

Mr Noppadon earlier said Mr Thaksin will arrive Washington Dec 16 and the CSCE briefing will consider alleged human rights violations during the political disorder in March-May which led to a number of deaths and injuries as well as following up on the insurgency situation in Thailand's three southernmost provinces, and the violation of freedom of expression of the media and public opinion which have been caused by the enforcement of a state of emergency.

Mr Thani, who is also deputy director-general of the foreign ministry's Department of Information, said the Thai embassy in Washington has informed Bangkok of possible appearance of the deposed premier there and that the Thai ambassador to Washington has also been invited to attend the briefing.

Mr Thani said the CSCE is an independent agency and it plans to hold a briefing on Thailand's situation, adding he does not know if Mr Thaksin will be allowed to enter the country as it depends on the consideration of the US authorities.

As Mr Thaksin has an outstanding arrest warrant on terrorism charges, the spokesman said, Thailand has an extradition treaty with the US in effect but it depends on the decision of the Office of Attorney-General (OAG).

"If the OAG coordinates with the foreign ministry (to seek extradition of the ex-premier), we are ready to proceed with the request," said Mr Thani, "but until now no request has been made as Mr Thaksin's address in the US must be identified first."

Deposed by a military coup in Sept 2006, Mr Thaksin now lives in exile abroad after evading a two-year jail term for violating a law on conflict of interest regarding a controversial Bangkok purchase of prime land.

Thailand's Criminal Court issued an arrest warrant for him on terrorism charges for being behind and funding the violent actions of the Red Shirts which led to grenade attacks and arson in the Thai capital and provinces in the North and Northeast during the March-May demonstrations.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva commented on Monday that he is uncertain regarding Mr Thaksin's purpose in 'clarifying' to the CSCE on the human rights violations in the kingdom and that he has to wait for clearer details on Mr Thaksin's visit.

Mr Abhisit added the foreign ministry is duty-bound to consider whether they should seek the extradition of the fugitive premier or not.

-- TNA 2010-12-06

[jdinasia]

Generalizations. Great stuff. Just like the vast majority of poor and uneducated are probably unable to make the most informed decision on which way to vote, especially when the temptation of baht is put their way...?

Exactly ----

The OPINION of Jayboy is simply that. An Opinion not based in fact, but instead based upon his world view of Thailand. I do enjoy the way he throws the word "fascist" around, and "criminal" around though! I mean those words certainly couldn't be applied to Thaksin's authoritarian rule or the leaders of the UDD along with many of the followers (nor about TRT/PPP/PTP).

Funny though, how he would associate the PAD with "Sino-Thai" to the extent that he labels the vast majority of the PAD supporters that way (with no proof at all) yet fails to look at the leadership of the UDD. (granted he threw a dog a bone on that one ... but he did leave out the "sino-Thai" rhetoric he adds to the PAD (not just the leadership!) of fascist and criminal.)

He also managed to avoid addressing the rural Thai political machines that do control entire regions and avoid addressing the fact that the same type of political machine does not exist in BKK.

(It is kind of like the economist article that mentions not ALL UDD supporters are rural and not ALL UDD supporters are pro-Thaksin, but doesn't mention that the majority of the urban UDD supporters are either tied financially to Thaksin OR are first generation urban dwellers that still have to vote back home!)

I love his final point about how long you must be here to have an informed opinion His ad hominem attacks are becoming more subtle. I guess my now almost 8 years of living in Thailand (in multiple locations) and 16 years of spending time here before that, and studying the language enough to read the newspapers and watch the TV, and my constant interaction with Thais at every level of society don't account for much.

How do you know a perceptive foreigner? He's one that doesn't make blanket statements like "that is invariably a sign he is..."

Probably a courtesy to address me with these points.

I agree "criminal" is a label that could be attached to Thaksin."Fascist" probably not:the characteristics match the PAD leadership more closely.

I don't regard "Sino_Thai" as an insult.Surely I have made that clear.

Most PAD followers were Sino-Thai.You don't believe me.I suggested you ask around.

How is the rural political machine set up relevant? Interesting but for a separate discussion surely.

Don't attach too much importance to my "20 year suggestion".The key thing is to talk to knowledgeable people.

Anybody can pretend what they want to be on a forum like this.Actually I believe you but it doesn't really adds weight to your stated opinions.It's very easy over a period of posts to see exactly the level of education, knowledge and social background.Your commitment and interest are commendable.I just wish you would give and take a bit more.We might even have a reasonable discussion.

Hard to have a reasonable discussion with someone who puts his OPINION forward as fact. My opinions are my own. I try not to represent them as facts. I also refuse to play your game of ad hominem attacks, so I stick to the points. Such as "It is very easy over a period of posts to see exactly the level of education, knowledge, and social background." Please do tell us all, what is my level of education, what do I know, and what is my family background like? Your "20 year suggestion" was another such attack. The thing is, I have been around for most of that amount of time. I don't think that people who have been here longer, will, on average have any more knowledge of things than I do (regarding politics) unless that is something that they are particularly interested in. Most people aren't.

How is the rural political machine relevant? You were chastising someone about about implying that the rural uneducated voter did not in fact lack "political sophistication". That most rural voters lack political sophistication is IMHO a basic condition present in Thailand. Why? The rural kanman based political machines. Completely relevant to your statements.

Your rants against the Sino-Thai and the PAD are again YOUR opinion. "Most" would only be an accurate statement about the leadership of the PAD (and in that case it is closer to "all"). That the leadership of the UDD is

Your take on Thaksin and the Reds as not being fascist .. again YOUR opinion (I actually would use the words authoritarian and nearly dictatorial as a better description of Thaksin. I wouldn't use "fascist" to describe the PAD. The fact that the UDD is using many of the ultra-nationalist talking points of the PAD now .. is .. well ... quite amusing.

As far as courtesy goes ---- you have labeled me with various nice labels like "visa-runner', teacher, bar stool ..." etc. I won't be taking any courtesy lessons from you

[jdinasia]

Thaksin to attend human rights violation hearing in US

BANGKOK, Dec 6 - Thailand's ousted ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra will visit the United States next week to testify on alleged human rights violations during Bangkok's deadly April-May political demonstrations after having been invited by the Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe (CSCE), according to his legal advisor Noppadon Pattama...

Hmm, Victor Bout is handed to the Americans. Shortly afterwards they allegedly invite Thaksin to pay them a visit. Conspiracy theorists at the ready...

It will be interesting to see if Thaksin actually gets in to the US!

[jdinasia]

Quite right they should listen to Thaksins side and ask pertinent questions. They should also seek other views and question those.

Agreed

Relying on one source is similar to having no experience at all with the topic. It creates a myopic world view. Granted nothing has improved my view of Thaksin in ages ..... but listening to his followers has certainly given me insight on how skewed people's perceptions can become.

[jayboy]

As far as courtesy goes ---- you have labeled me with various nice labels like "visa-runner', teacher, bar stool ..." etc. I won't be taking any courtesy lessons from you

Ah well, I tried.

[Insight]

From your posts, even while often disagreeing, I fully accept your decency and democratic principles.

Belated thank you, sir.

The irony I was pointing out, perhaps too oddly parochially British, is the oddity of many UK expatriates not obviously ex members of the Bullingdon Club who swoon like schoolgirls over the posh Thai establishment yet at home would be profoundly sceptical of "posh <deleted>" like Cameron and Osborne.

For me personally it's a not directly a case of backing the "posh Thai establishment" (although I am a firm supporter of Abhisit & Korn), but taking a position against the red shirt movement as they repeatedly fail to produce leaders with a shred if integrity - Veera (and only Veera) excluded. Of the "new" leaders, Sombat's credibility all but disappeared with the staged arrest, while Weng's wife (apart from being Weng's wife) appears to be repeating the same flawed "Peaceful Protesters Not Terrorists" approach.

Once you place such leaders alongside the likes of Abhisit, Korn, Sukhaband, Apriak and even Col. Sansern given the balanced announcements during the crisis compared to what was being screamed from the red stage, throw in the armed movement supporting the red shirts and a large number of other incidents besides, the bias starts becoming more understandable.

[jdinasia]

As far as courtesy goes ---- you have labeled me with various nice labels like "visa-runner', teacher, bar stool ..." etc. I won't be taking any courtesy lessons from you

Ah well, I tried.

Yet again, please do not edit my posts.

Your constant ad hominem attacks and then suggesting 'courtesy' from other members is laughable. The post that you CUT the quote of mine out of certainly explains a lot about how you approach courtesy. I am still waiting for your answers to the questions I posed in the post you butchered to create your reply with

[Siam Simon]

As far as courtesy goes ---- you have labeled me with various nice labels like "visa-runner', teacher, bar stool ..." etc. I won't be taking any courtesy lessons from you

Ah well, I tried.

Yet again, please do not edit my posts.

Your constant ad hominem attacks and then suggesting 'courtesy' from other members is laughable. The post that you CUT the quote of mine out of certainly explains a lot about how you approach courtesy. I am still waiting for your answers to the questions I posed in the post you butchered to create your reply with

Oh give it a rest, man. Jayboy isn't going to fall into your traps. The mods certainly aren't falling for them any more. Your only hope is to pick on a newbie or two. And spare me your insincere outrage. The regs on here know how you operate .

[MaiChai]

Chartered jet means harder to track his movements which also means the fugitive is harder to catch.

Taksin's story of the powerful leader who did many corrupt and bad things is such a stereotype story of many great dictators. Once they have abused their power too much, they can never reliquish power, because they would then be called to account for their actions by a future government. This is what happened, and while Taksin could have been called to account for many of his sins, the government only chose to make an example of him on the charge of a corrupt land deal. The other charge of abuse of power just meant his assets were seized but he was not given any jail time. I think its pretty fair justice and he got away lightly. But his arrogance in not respecting the judgements and doing time for the small sins he has been punished for speak volumes of the type of man he is.

[jdinasia]

As far as courtesy goes ---- you have labeled me with various nice labels like "visa-runner', teacher, bar stool ..." etc. I won't be taking any courtesy lessons from you

Ah well, I tried.

Yet again, please do not edit my posts.

Your constant ad hominem attacks and then suggesting 'courtesy' from other members is laughable. The post that you CUT the quote of mine out of certainly explains a lot about how you approach courtesy. I am still waiting for your answers to the questions I posed in the post you butchered to create your reply with

Oh give it a rest, man. Jayboy isn't going to fall into your traps. The mods certainly aren't falling for them any more. Your only hope is to pick on a newbie or two. And spare me your insincere outrage. The regs on here know how you operate .

The outrage is sincere Not resorting to attacks against the man and instead talking directly about the issues is something that some people can't manage. Modifying other people's posts to suit the response is simply using strawman tactics.

[Siam Simon]

Oh give it a rest, man. Jayboy isn't going to fall into your traps. The mods certainly aren't falling for them any more. Your only hope is to pick on a newbie or two. And spare me your insincere outrage. The regs on here know how you operate .

The outrage is sincere Not resorting to attacks against the man and instead talking directly about the issues is something that some people can't manage. Modifying other people's posts to suit the response is simply using strawman tactics.

Either report the posts you don't like or grow a chin. An experienced cyber-warrior like you whingeing endlessly is so unbecoming.

[rubl]

Oh give it a rest, man. Jayboy isn't going to fall into your traps. The mods certainly aren't falling for them any more. Your only hope is to pick on a newbie or two. And spare me your insincere outrage. The regs on here know how you operate .

The outrage is sincere Not resorting to attacks against the man and instead talking directly about the issues is something that some people can't manage. Modifying other people's posts to suit the response is simply using strawman tactics.

Either report the posts you don't like or grow a chin. An experienced cyber-warrior like you whingeing endlessly is so unbecoming.

For once, and maybe only once: hear, hear!

[jdinasia]

Oh give it a rest, man. Jayboy isn't going to fall into your traps. The mods certainly aren't falling for them any more. Your only hope is to pick on a newbie or two. And spare me your insincere outrage. The regs on here know how you operate .

The outrage is sincere Not resorting to attacks against the man and instead talking directly about the issues is something that some people can't manage. Modifying other people's posts to suit the response is simply using strawman tactics.

Either report the posts you don't like or grow a chin. An experienced cyber-warrior like you whingeing endlessly is so unbecoming.

I think pointing out the ad hominem attacks and strawmen is more effective

[Siam Simon]

Oh give it a rest, man. Jayboy isn't going to fall into your traps. The mods certainly aren't falling for them any more. Your only hope is to pick on a newbie or two. And spare me your insincere outrage. The regs on here know how you operate .

The outrage is sincere Not resorting to attacks against the man and instead talking directly about the issues is something that some people can't manage. Modifying other people's posts to suit the response is simply using strawman tactics.

Either report the posts you don't like or grow a chin. An experienced cyber-warrior like you whingeing endlessly is so unbecoming.

I think pointing out the ad hominem attacks and strawmen is more effective

In some respects I tend to agree with you: The mods already have their work cut out without having to babysit soft-ar$ed posters.

The disadvantage is that your own snide, just-within-the-rules ad hominem attacks come across as the height of hypocrisy.

[thaiphoon]

Ok guys, stop the bickering. If posts have been changed, you have all been here long enough to know the correct process is to report them for Mod/Admin action, at the appropriate time, by clicking on the Reports button. Now back to the topic ...