WikiLeaks alleged Russia bribed Bout witnesses

[LaoPo]

Its not about liking or not liking Americans, its about politics & politicians ! American foreign politics don't have a great reputation, which they do not want to change. I have family in the states & love the country, but u sure do have a great bunch of uneducated and brainwashed people over there, which makes it so easy for your politicians to pretty much do what they want & they seem to screw up this planet more & more. In the end its all of us paying the bill!

Politicians:

Someone said:

Politician... the only profession in the world you don't have to prepare (study) for...

LaoPo

[moskito]

Tried accessing the "Keep Us Strong" link on wikileaks (http://58.97.5.29/an...w.capothai.org/)

and got the following message from Big Brother:

การเข้าถึงข้อมูลดังกล่าวนี้ ถูกระงับเป็นการชั่วคราว

โดยอาศัยอำนาจตามพระราชกำหนดการบริหารราชการ ในสถานการณ์ฉุกเฉิน พ.ศ. ๒๕๔๘

ตามคำสั่งของศูนย์อำนวยการแก้ไขสถานการณ์ฉุกเฉิน

________________________________________

An access to such information has been temporarily ceased

due to the order of the Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES)

under the authority of emergency decree B.E 2548 (A.D. 2005).

Welcome in the LAND OF THE FREE, TiT

[whybother]

Bye Bye.

hope too, the 69th post was his last one....or is that the average answer now in TV?

It seems to be diehard's average answer. But his last couple of posts have been removed from view in this thread.

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts have been removed from view.

[bangon04]

What possible reason could Viktor Bout have for an official meeting with the office of the crown prince? Oh wait, don't answer that....

[kolohe]

anyway, I hope WIKILEAKS is keeping up the fine work....somehow I doubt it, just today it was in the news that Wiki Boss raped a woman....how convinient (((((-: ....I doubt its true, but its the way the mass media works and it make us even more aware for whom they are working

You should call Assange's lawyers, I'm sure they would be very anxious to get a hold of all the evidence you have that shows its not true.

I'm sure there is a better explanation than the I've-watched-too-many-conspiracy-movies paranoia. It's more likely a case of "dont throw stones if you live in glass houses". Bottom line is, if you're going to start calling so much attention to yourself, you better hope you're squeaky clean.

[hawksway]

How can Victor Bout claim that he was visiting Thailand on "Official Business" ?

If that were true, Bout would have entered Thailand with a Diplomatic Passport and in such a situation, would have been untouchable, whatever He said or did.

It's clear that the Russian Government clearly understood Bout's position to be untenable and could not offer any explicit support even through its channels to the Thai Government. The alledged bribes must have come from Bout's Associates which in a country of such criminality would have been substantial.

Bout is just going to rot in Gaol until the U.S and Russia come to a mutually acceptable arrangement.

[manarak]

I think the prosecution of Bout by the US is a terribly hypocritical exercise.

I don't think there are good and bad guys when it comes to international arms deals.

The US have armed rebellions, supported fascists with weapons and money, killed elected heads of state.

Did the US prosecute the US citizens behind these crimes?

Or did they rather receive "secret medals" they can't show anyboy?

US propagandists: please spare us with the "merchant of death" bullshit.

[Thai at Heart]

How can Victor Bout claim that he was visiting Thailand on "Official Business" ?

If that were true, Bout would have entered Thailand with a Diplomatic Passport and in such a situation, would have been untouchable, whatever He said or did.

It's clear that the Russian Government clearly understood Bout's position to be untenable and could not offer any explicit support even through its channels to the Thai Government. The alledged bribes must have come from Bout's Associates which in a country of such criminality would have been substantial.

Bout is just going to rot in Gaol until the U.S and Russia come to a mutually acceptable arrangement.

Reading the documents, someone testified that he was there to business in country.

[housepainter]

It's just been published that Russia is considered to be a Mafia state. That is, the government acting hand in hand with the mafia to carryout its sub-judicial serving of justive to thos it condiers to be enemies of the state.

I think that the actions of America are commendable; rather the free world than the likes of Russia or China running the show.

As for Bout there's no question he needed to be stopped and long before time. The evidence should you care to view it is overwhelming. He was ex- Russian military, an ex-spy, a KGB official, and allowed to export military weapons on a scale that a small war would require.

[bkk_mike]

[America. Back the FARC, the Taliban, N. Korea., Mugabe...anybody but America....Idiots...

...so you just forgot that the USAmericans created the Taliban? btw, for the same reason they wanted Bout now.....but sure, you are right, its a big difference to kill Russians or Iraquis as Israeli or UScitizens.

Its not that most people hate USAmericans, they just hate the government there and what it stands for TRULY. Thats not humanity its just business!

The US armed the mujahadeen (?) to fight the Russians when they invaded Afghanistan. The mujahadeen, of course, became the basis of Al-Qaeda...

However, it wasn't the US that created the Taliban. That's almost certainly down to Pakistan.

And it's Al-Qaeda's mistake in underestimating the American reaction to 9/11 that's why they've been hiding in tribal areas in Pakistan now for 8 years.

[sydneyjed]

[America. Back the FARC, the Taliban, N. Korea., Mugabe...anybody but America....Idiots...

...so you just forgot that the USAmericans created the Taliban? btw, for the same reason they wanted Bout now.....but sure, you are right, its a big difference to kill Russians or Iraquis as Israeli or UScitizens.

Its not that most people hate USAmericans, they just hate the government there and what it stands for TRULY. Thats not humanity its just business!

.

Latest news within the last half hour ..is that Scotland Yard have a nationwide U.K.search out for Assange...meanwhile another one of WikiLeaks spokespersons'(a Swedish geezer)just gave a live interview in a London pub!!Assanges' skype interview was

to Time magerzine and not the Washington Post(for all those who can access it!)Talks big on espionage as part of U.S. policy!

Edited December 2, 2010 by sydneyjed

[jaywalker]

Its not about liking or not liking Americans, its about politics & politicians ! American foreign politics don't have a great reputation, which they do not want to change. I have family in the states & love the country, but u sure do have a great bunch of uneducated and brainwashed people over there, which makes it so easy for your politicians to pretty much do what they want & they seem to screw up this planet more & more. In the end its all of us paying the bill!

Bad luck Russia. Obviously America's bribes were bigger than yours.

OK, smart-ass, let's see your proof that the US bribed/coerced anyone to hand over Bout. Or are you just another one of the "Bash the US Because It's Fashionable and I Want To Be With the Cool Crowd of Ultra-Politically Correct/Nanny State Types"???

Yep..there is an over abundance of these idiots on the forums. Everybody is always right except America. Everybody holds the moral high ground except Americans.

In the minds of these nanny state morons, even Russian (the Mafia state) and the Chinese with their wonderful system of governance and sterling human right records should be supported but never America. Back the FARC, the Taliban, N. Korea., Mugabe...anybody but America....Idiots...

(PS I'm not American, but I have spend a lot of time in the US and appreciate all the good stuff that is also American, so have never found it necessary to join the whining anti US bandwagon)...

I'm American and I couldn't agree more. That's why I don't live there.

Edited December 2, 2010 by jaywalker

[elcent]

anyway, I hope WIKILEAKS is keeping up the fine work....somehow I doubt it, just today it was in the news that Wiki Boss raped a woman....how convinient (((((-: ....I doubt its true, but its the way the mass media works and it make us even more aware for whom they are working

That wasn't today, it was already earlier this year; the accusations came from 2 women he allegedly had a relation with.

On August 21 the Prosecutors in Sweden withdrew the case and arrest warrant:

"In a brief statement Saturday, chief prosecutor Eva Finne says: "I don't think there is reason to suspect that he has committed rape." *

Later that month the accusations came back but now as an allegation of "sexual harassment".

According to a well respected Swedish journalist who is making a documentary about Assange (aired in 1,5 weeks) there is no evidence whatsoever and everybody is guessing why the heck Assange is put on an Interpol list because of alleged "sexual harrasment".

Never happened before and Interpol is used by some strange powerful forces, so it seems.

One can only guess

* sorry: not allowed to give a link anymore.

LaoPo

There are five sex crime cases played out against Julian. First time the case was dismissed. Believe it or not it was about a consensual intercourse and broken condoms and he didn't allegedly stop when asked. This was the allegation and is, under certain circumstances, punishable under Swedish law. That one was dropped. After consulting with a feminist and one of the two ladies involved got pi**ed off, they have decided to go for rape charges now. It's a setup if one asks me. Julian is on a red flag with Interpol which means it is not an international arrest warrant. It could be also a hidden warrant issued by the Americans to get hold of him. Very dangerous for Julian.

Here an other proof what elites are trying to suggest

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqtIafdoH_g

Think about.

Also, please don't forget that this group now needs help. They got the boots from Amazon servers and they need to continue operation. There are more than just one person, around 700 people involved worldwide. Julian got quite a few offers from Ecuador to Brazil though, but that doesn't cover the rest of the crew.

Edited December 2, 2010 by elcent

[Thai at Heart]

Latest news within the last half hour ..is that Scotland Yard have a nationwide U.K.search out for Assange...meanwhile another one of WikiLeaks spokespersons'(a Swedish geezer)just gave a live interview in a London pub!!Assanges' skype interview was

to Time magerzine and not the Washington Post(for all those who can access it!)Talks big on espionage as part of U.S. policy!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/wikileaks-chief-what-will-he-do-next-2148813.html

But the 39-year-old Australian supplied the Metropolitan Police with contact details upon arriving in the UK in October. Police sources confirmed that they have a telephone number for Mr Assange and are fully aware of where he is staying.

The Independent has learnt that Scotland Yard has been in contact with his legal team for more than a month but is waiting for further instruction before arresting him.

Seems like he has hardly been hiding too hard.

[vicco]

[America. Back the FARC, the Taliban, N. Korea., Mugabe...anybody but America....Idiots...

...so you just forgot that the USAmericans created the Taliban? btw, for the same reason they wanted Bout now.....but sure, you are right, its a big difference to kill Russians or Iraquis as Israeli or UScitizens.

Its not that most people hate USAmericans, they just hate the government there and what it stands for TRULY. Thats not humanity its just business!

The US armed the mujahadeen (?) to fight the Russians when they invaded Afghanistan. The mujahadeen, of course, became the basis of Al-Qaeda...

However, it wasn't the US that created the Taliban. That's almost certainly down to Pakistan.

And it's Al-Qaeda's mistake in underestimating the American reaction to 9/11 that's why they've been hiding in tribal areas in Pakistan now for 8 years.

Actually the "Taliban" was mentioned in dispatches from the British army during the Anglo-Afghan war back in the 1880 ies. They were black turbaned suicide merchants who slashed the throats of any British soldiers they could get close enough to. Hardly an American invention... The Americans did indeed support and supply the Mujahadeen in the fight against the Soviets. Members of the Mujahadeen later formed the core of the new and improved Taliban who are now mortal enemies of the west. History is full of examples of allies later becoming enemies, and vise versa. Regardless of who founded the Taliban, we need to kill every last one of them. Their whole idealogy is sick, demented and brutal in the extreme. I would have thought that even the most virulent America bashers would understand that much... but maybe not. Anti-Americanism is a kind of mindless fashion trend. You wear the clothes in fashion, even if you look ridiculous in them

[LaoPo]

They got the boots from Amazon servers and they need to continue operation. .

Wikileaks is freely accessible and operating, from whereever.

LaoPo

[elcent]

They got the boots from Amazon servers and they need to continue operation. .

Wikileaks is freely accessible and operating, from whereever.

LaoPo

Maybe they changed their mind at amazon. There was a big outrage against Amazon just a few hours ago. Many canceled their accounts and others signed petitions. It could be also a trap to get hold of wiki-leaks content now and to alternate the content directly on the servers. Guess who would and could do such things?

[siampolee]

This comment doe not come from Wikileaks , however it does indeed show how the American diplomacy (sic) evolved

.

Just 47 years ago, on November 22, 1963, President John F. Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas, Texas. This marked the turning of the American National Security State apparatus against its own leadership. After having overthrown, assassinated leaders, and orchestrated coups around the world, the moment its growing power was threatened by the civilian leadership in America, the apparatus of empire came home to roost.

The National Security State

The apparatus of the National Security State, largely established in the National Security Act of 1947, laid the foundations for the extension of American hegemony around the globe. In short, the Act laid the foundations for the apparatus of the American Empire. The National Security Act created the National Security Council (NSC) and position of National Security Adviser, as well as the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JSC) as the Pentagon high command of military leaders, and of course, the CIA.

The first major foreign operation carried out by the National Security State, or rather, the “secret government,” was the overthrowing of a democratically elected government in Iran. In 1952, the British were concerned at the efforts of Iran’s new Prime Minister Mohommad Mossadeq, in nationalizing Iran’s oil industry, taking the monopoly away from British Petroleum. So the British intelligence, the SIS, proposed to the Americans a joint operation, and the CIA obliged.

In early 1953, with the ascendancy of the Eisenhower administration, two brothers, the Dulles brothers, came to dominate foreign policy decisions. John Foster Dulles became Secretary of State while his brother, Allen Dulles, became director of the CIA. Allen Dulles was a founding member of the Council on Foreign Relations and was a director of the CFR from 1927 to 1969,[1] while John Foster Dulles had joined the Council in the 1930s, and was a career diplomat and Wall Street lawyer.[2] In 1953, the Dulles brothers both worked and lobbied Eisenhower for the removal of Mossadeq from Iran,[3] and subsequently, the CIA and SIS worked together to enact the plan and overthrew the Iranian government.[4]

On January 17, 1961, President Dwight D. Eisenhower gave his farewell address to the nation in which he warned America and indeed the world about the growing influence of the National Security State in what he referred to as the “military-industrial complex”:

"Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."[5]

Wikileaks is indeed performing a valuable service in exposing the double standards of all diplomatic missions irrespective of the countries such diplomatic forces may be operating from.

[elcent]

one of the comments on you-tube the guy is a reptilian..check his tongue at 0:45. You tube and Google for the words "shapeshifter" or "reptilian"

Edited December 2, 2010 by elcent

[brahmburgers]

Bad luck Russia. Obviously America's bribes were bigger than yours.

Any proof that the Americans were bribing? No, you don't have any, because none by the Americans exists in the Bout affair. Indeed, the leaked memos indicate the Americans were trying to get what they wanted within the Thai legal system.

The latest Wikileaks release is the best thing to happen to government transparency in many years.

Let's hope there are more of them.

Not really. The biggest influence the Wikileaks will have is to make leaders and diplomats more guarded in what they say. Is that what you want? In normal circumstances, they're quite guarded - now they'll be much more paranoid. The result is poorer and less frank communications. When you have poorer communications, then you get closer to more closed and more repressive regimes (N.Korea, Burma, Zimbabwe) and closer to armed conflicts. Every war has stemmed from a break down in communication of one sort or another.

[pogal]

Although the Bout cables may come in handy. The cables that will be published about the cozy conversations with the elite will make uncomfortable reading.

This is the publication schedule:

http://thaicables.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/thailand_decode.pdf

More leaks please if helps to expose the hypocrisy of the so called 'world leaders'

No more leaks please.... there are some thing I do not want to know.... many of us do not want to know... and remember, there are 2 sides to every story..! Wikileaks only show one side.

Fascism rears its ugly head once again, there's a job waiting for you at the CIA lol

[OzMick]

Article stated that a Thai official's evidence had been proven false - so where's the perjury case?

[elcent]

Bad luck Russia. Obviously America's bribes were bigger than yours.

Any proof that the Americans were bribing? No, you don't have any, because none by the Americans exists in the Bout affair. Indeed, the leaked memos indicate the Americans were trying to get what they wanted within the Thai legal system.

The latest Wikileaks release is the best thing to happen to government transparency in many years.

Let's hope there are more of them.

Not really. The biggest influence the Wikileaks will have is to make leaders and diplomats more guarded in what they say. Is that what you want? In normal circumstances, they're quite guarded - now they'll be much more paranoid. The result is poorer and less frank communications. When you have poorer communications, then you get closer to more closed and more repressive regimes (N.Korea, Burma, Zimbabwe) and closer to armed conflicts. Every war has stemmed from a break down in communication of one sort or another.

This revelations are a chance to communicate the right way with more sincerity and no secrets. Only secretive govts have wars. Transparency and truth never caused a war. Secrecy is the tools for elites and not for people.

This time diplomats are marked and exposed as what they always were, and stay in lairs (home for wild animals) they are liars - liars and very often hardened criminals. Not all, but the majority.

Think about, Hillary demanding the biometric data, passwords, security and any and all information through this channels. What does it mean? The US tries to get hold of data from everyone. While the crowds are trapped with Face-book and Google already, some who are missing are directly spied on. - that is.

The US acts more like a beast that is unleashing now. I'm not saying all American are nuts. I'm still aware of many great people there, but they have to stand up and clean up the mess their politicians and elites have created.

Edited December 2, 2010 by elcent

[LaoPo]

Not really. The biggest influence the Wikileaks will have is to make leaders and diplomats more guarded in what they say. Is that what you want? In normal circumstances, they're quite guarded - now they'll be much more paranoid. The result is poorer and less frank communications. When you have poorer communications, then you get closer to more closed and more repressive regimes (N.Korea, Burma, Zimbabwe) and closer to armed conflicts. Every war has stemmed from a break down in communication of one sort or another.

You're being perfectly answered to that by Mr. Assange himself, in the fourth answer he's giving....

But, it might not be the answer you're looking for.

http://www.time.com/...2034040,00.html

LaoPo

[Bagwan]

[America.  Back the FARC, the Taliban,  N. Korea., Mugabe...anybody but America....Idiots...

...so you just forgot that the USAmericans created the Taliban? btw, for the same reason they wanted Bout now.....but sure, you are right, its a big difference to kill Russians or Iraquis as Israeli or UScitizens.

Its not that most people hate USAmericans, they just hate the government there and what it stands for TRULY. Thats not humanity its just business!

The US armed the mujahadeen (?) to fight the Russians when they invaded Afghanistan. The mujahadeen, of course, became the basis of Al-Qaeda...

However, it wasn't the US that created the Taliban. That's almost certainly down to Pakistan.

And it's Al-Qaeda's mistake in underestimating the American reaction to 9/11 that's why they've been hiding in tribal areas in Pakistan now for 8 years.

Most of the aid to the M\ujahadeen was channeled through Pakistan who diverted it into their atomic bomb project. This was well known by the US Government who did nothing to stop Pakistan building it's own bomb. Furthermore, further down that road Pakistan sold equipment and knowhow to North Korea, Libya and Iran - while still collecting big time from the US. 

Google on Richard Barlow who blew the whistle to a Congressional committee and now lives in a trailer park in Oregon. If the US Government, or factions of it, can do that to one of their own, fear for the Aussie. I welcome openness and honesty. Decisions made by people in huddles or behind closed doors smack of deceit and mendacity. Perhaps if they had a conscience they would be ashamed. 

[RKASA]

[America. Back the FARC, the Taliban, N. Korea., Mugabe...anybody but America....Idiots...

...so you just forgot that the USAmericans created the Taliban? btw, for the same reason they wanted Bout now.....but sure, you are right, its a big difference to kill Russians or Iraquis as Israeli or UScitizens.

Its not that most people hate USAmericans, they just hate the government there and what it stands for TRULY. Thats not humanity its just business!

Yes and they backed Stalin because his enemy was ours at the time so I guess they kind of made him too. That is the way it works and Bout is our enemy and he is going to sing for US now.

[LaoPo]

The US tries to get hold of data from everyone. While the crowds are trapped with Face-book and Google already, some who are missing are directly spied on. - that is.

The US acts more like a beast that is unleashing now. I'm not saying all American are nuts. I'm still aware of many great people there, but they have to stand up and clean up the mess their politicians and elites have created.

I fully second that!

The name: Mrs. Jeanine Hennis-Plasschaert doesn't mean a lot to many of the readers here, yet Mrs Hennis-Plasschaert from The Netherlands won the prestigious MEP Prize of Euro Parliament Member, yesterday!

She was the one who stopped American intervention in Europe whereby the US demanded access to ALL bankaccounts of all 300+ Million European citizens, because of their war on terrorists....

She managed to have a Law accepted that stopped that absurd demand.

Bravo Jeanine !

LaoPo

[Cnxforever]

Tried accessing the "Keep Us Strong" link on wikileaks (http://58.97.5.29/an...w.capothai.org/)

and got the following message from Big Brother:

การเข้าถึงข้อมูลดังกล่าวนี้ ถูกระงับเป็นการชั่วคราว

โดยอาศัยอำนาจตามพระราชกำหนดการบริหารราชการ ในสถานการณ์ฉุกเฉิน พ.ศ. ๒๕๔๘

ตามคำสั่งของศูนย์อำนวยการแก้ไขสถานการณ์ฉุกเฉิน

________________________________________

An access to such information has been temporarily ceased

due to the order of the Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES)

under the authority of emergency decree B.E 2548 (A.D. 2005).

easy way around this - not allowed to say here as this forum is following the current Thai government's primitive military mentality of censorship and brainwashing - do some googling you will find that you are much smarter than the censors - especially the CRES what a bunch of idiots think they can censor the internet!! The only way would be to turn it off - and surely they would love to turn it off - but doesn't work either - billions involved - and money rules.

Watch the ongoing character assassination of the Wikileaks founder - if he hasn't committed a crime they will invent one or commit it themselves and try to frame him - the men is a hero - he knew who he was taking on and he still did it!

Wikileaks keep up the good work !

[kutjebu]

Why is Weaky leaks blocked in Thailand?