Non-B Visa Extension - What To Do?

[trompelemonde82]

It's that time again - extension of stay in the Kingdom required by Wednesday 8th December on my current Non B visa. The problem being that my work permit and Non B are with a language center I have recently ceased to work with. My contract was never terminated, they just stopped giving me classes. I am still under contract with them until end of May 2011. This contract states that they are responsible for providing all required documents regarding visa and work permit.

Am I right in thinking that they are then responsible for providing the letter that I now require to extend my Non B? I called into see them yesterday and they say they cannot give me the letter for extension as I am not currently working there.

Also, I have previously been told by both Immigration and my current workplace that this letter is all I need to extend the Non B . It would seem then that I need to go to the Labour Department with a member of staff from said language center, cancel my work permit then get all required documents from my current workplace for a new Non B, then apply for a new work permit....

Can anyone advise me what options I have here?

[lopburi3]

If you are not working for them any extension of stay ended the day work ended and time since then is overstay so you may have more issues. They should have provided you a letter to take to immigration to cancel your current extension of stay.

[trompelemonde82]

If you are not working for them any extension of stay ended the day work ended and time since then is overstay so you may have more issues. They should have provided you a letter to take to immigration to cancel your current extension of stay.

Ah, okay. Cheers for your input, Two things though:

(1) They had said I was to be changed to a part-time contract a few months back but I never signed anything to this effect.

(2) In the past month they called a few times asking me to teach a class on Sunday morning. I was busy at this time so had to refuse. That being the case, I am not aware

of any actual date that was ''the day work ended'' as they never informed me of this.

What Lopburi3 says here is quite concerning though. Does anyone know where I stand legally with Immigration bearing all this in mind?

As I said previously, the contract has not (to my knowledge) been cancelled as such but they told me yesterday there were no more classes for me. That is the first time they have directly said this to me.

[tombkk]

They have no right to keep your passport, whether you work there or not. I am not 100% sure, but I think they cannot keep your WP either, it must be with the employee not the employer.

Anyway, ask them to return the passport back to you. If they refuse, talk to your embassy. I am sure they will suggest you go to the police. Any company that keeps the passport (and the WP?) hostage, is suspicious to say the least.

On a softer note, if the contract is still in place and they offer you jobs and they keep sponsoring your work permit, you don't want to spoil the relationship with them. You just need to ask them politely to give you your passport for visa renewal and issue any relevant documents. Since you did that and they won't issue a letter suporting your visa, they do have to issue a letter stating that you don't work there any more. (I suggest the letter is dated the date you want to go to immigration, so as to avoid overstay fines.)

I think your mistake was to turn down the jobs. As an employer, I wouldn't issue that letter to renew your visa either. You might want to know that according to Thai labour law, if you don't come to work for three days, you have implicetely resigned from the job. They don't need to inform you - you have informed them by "being busy". I am not a lawyer, but I would think you have terminated the contract yourself.

As Lopburi3 says, if you don't work for them, your WP and extension of stay has to be cancelled. Last time I cancelled my work permit (last week, to apply for a new one with another company), I also had to attach the Por Ngor Dor 1 of the company. Now, I wish you good look getting this PNG1 from them!

[trompelemonde82]

They have no right to keep your passport, whether you work there or not. I am not 100% sure, but I think they cannot keep your WP either, it must be with the employee not the employer.

Anyway, ask them to return the passport back to you. If they refuse, talk to your embassy. I am sure they will suggest you go to the police. Any company that keeps the passport (and the WP?) hostage, is suspicious to say the least.

On a softer note, if the contract is still in place and they offer you jobs and they keep sponsoring your work permit, you don't want to spoil the relationship with them. You just need to ask them politely to give you your passport for visa renewal and issue any relevant documents. Since you did that and they won't issue a letter suporting your visa, they do have to issue a letter stating that you don't work there any more. (I suggest the letter is dated the date you want to go to immigration, so as to avoid overstay fines.)

I think your mistake was to turn down the jobs. As an employer, I wouldn't issue that letter to renew your visa either. You might want to know that according to Thai labour law, if you don't come to work for three days, you have implicetely resigned from the job. They don't need to inform you - you have informed them by "being busy". I am not a lawyer, but I would think you have terminated the contract yourself.

As Lopburi3 says, if you don't work for them, your WP and extension of stay has to be cancelled. Last time I cancelled my work permit (last week, to apply for a new one with another company), I also had to attach the Por Ngor Dor 1 of the company. Now, I wish you good look getting this PNG1 from them!

Thanks for your informative reply. Just to clarify the confusion, I didn't actually mean the language center are keeping my WP and passport, and I am aware that companies who do so are suspect. It was just a bad choice of words saying the WP and passport were 'with' that language center - I simply meant that I had obtained these with documents given to me from that language center.

I didn't actually 'turn down the jobs' as such - I had given them my schedule previously which clearly showed I was 'busy' teaching a class at my current workplace on the Sunday morning. The former language center called me 3 times asking if I could teach a class there and I told them each time, 'Sorry but I can't, I have a class elsewhere. Perhaps you can reschedule?' They didn't offer me any other classes besides this one.

I am well aware that company protocol differs somewhat in the Land of Smiles compared to Western countries, and it's looking like I will need to do as you suggest and ask for the letter stating I do not work with them anymore, but as it was only yesterday that I was told verbally there were no more classes for me and my contract has not been formally terminated, I guess I don't really have a leg to stand on by still legally being under contract with them?

[tombkk]

Thanks for your informative reply. Just to clarify the confusion, I didn't actually mean the language center are keeping my WP and passport, and I am aware that companies who do so are suspect. It was just a bad choice of words saying the WP and passport were 'with' that language center - I simply meant that I had obtained these with documents given to me from that language center.

I didn't actually 'turn down the jobs' as such - I had given them my schedule previously which clearly showed I was 'busy' teaching a class at my current workplace on the Sunday morning. The former language center called me 3 times asking if I could teach a class there and I told them each time, 'Sorry but I can't, I have a class elsewhere. Perhaps you can reschedule?' They didn't offer me any other classes besides this one.

I am well aware that company protocol differs somewhat in the Land of Smiles compared to Western countries, and it's looking like I will need to do as you suggest and ask for the letter stating I do not work with them anymore, but as it was only yesterday that I was told verbally there were no more classes for me and my contract has not been formally terminated, I guess I don't really have a leg to stand on by still legally being under contract with them?

I see, so your passport is with you. That's a relief.

You actually didn't teach somewhere else, and you don't have another "current workplace", this must be another misunderstanding. Because if you did, you would have needed a work permit from that other teaching institue as well. But since you were not free to work for your employer who sponsored your work permit, I can fully understand that they won't offer you jobs any more. Remember, you have terminted the contract in full accordance with the Thai labour law, they have no obligation to "formally" terminate the contract. One might need a lawyer to read the contract and see whether you have to pay some kind of penalty for breach of contract, as you were not available due to working illegally for their competition.

This does not differ from Western countries in any way.

Yes, your only choice now is to ask them politely to issue the letter stating that you have resigned, and if you are lucky they will date it this week rather than stating your real last date of working there.

I wonder why your "current workplace" doesn't apply for a work permit for you.

NB: I am not a lawyer! Don't trust me, ask a lawyer whether anything I write is true.

Reason for edit: Disclaimer.

Edited December 5, 2010 by tombkk

[trompelemonde82]

Thanks for your informative reply. Just to clarify the confusion, I didn't actually mean the language center are keeping my WP and passport, and I am aware that companies who do so are suspect. It was just a bad choice of words saying the WP and passport were 'with' that language center - I simply meant that I had obtained these with documents given to me from that language center.

I didn't actually 'turn down the jobs' as such - I had given them my schedule previously which clearly showed I was 'busy' teaching a class at my current workplace on the Sunday morning. The former language center called me 3 times asking if I could teach a class there and I told them each time, 'Sorry but I can't, I have a class elsewhere. Perhaps you can reschedule?' They didn't offer me any other classes besides this one.

I am well aware that company protocol differs somewhat in the Land of Smiles compared to Western countries, and it's looking like I will need to do as you suggest and ask for the letter stating I do not work with them anymore, but as it was only yesterday that I was told verbally there were no more classes for me and my contract has not been formally terminated, I guess I don't really have a leg to stand on by still legally being under contract with them?

I see, so your passport is with you. That's a relief.

You actually didn't teach somewhere else, and you don't have another "current workplace", this must be another misunderstanding. Because if you did, you would have needed a work permit from that other teaching institue as well. But since you were not free to work for your employer who sponsored your work permit, I can fully understand that they won't offer you jobs any more. Remember, you have terminted the contract in full accordance with the Thai labour law, they have no obligation to "formally" terminate the contract. One might need a lawyer to read the contract and see whether you have to pay some kind of penalty for breach of contract, as you were not available due to working illegally for their competition.

This does not differ from Western countries in any way.

Yes, your only choice now is to ask them politely to issue the letter stating that you have resigned, and if you are lucky they will date it this week rather than stating your real last date of working there.

I wonder why your "current workplace" doesn't apply for a work permit for you.

NB: I am not a lawyer! Don't trust me, ask a lawyer whether anything I write is true.

Reason for edit: Disclaimer.

Hi Tom,

Yes, indeed, that was a misunderstanding as stated about the work situation ... my current workplace will be applying for a work permit shortly for me as soon as I cancel the one I have now. I don't see a problem with getting the letter of resignation dated accordingly. No, I don't need a lawyer to check my contract, I had read and understood it the day I signed it - there is no penalty to be paid for working elsewhere, and I was actually encouraged to seek other work anyway.

In my experience of working in Thailand compared to Western countries, I would have to say there are many differences in how things are done in the workplace. One of those differences being that in the Western countries I have worked, there is always some kind of formal agreement (verbal or written) when a worker either resigns, is laid off, fired, relocated or whatever. I just find it odd that I was suddenly dropped without any kind of notification whatsoever, and actually didn't realise this until I asked, and was then told there were no further classes for me there. I did not terminate the contract by 'not turning up for work 3 days in a row' or whatever it is. I had told them I was working at that time, they wanted me to teach, I referred them to my schedule I had given them which showed I was otherwise employed.

I think perhaps you misunderstand the situation in it's entirety. Thanks a lot for your time and advice and I'll let you know how I go.

[lopburi3]

I had told them I was working at that time

You can not be working without a work permit specific to the job (which you seem to admit you did not have) so what you were doing appears to have been illegal and have nothing to do with your legal contract/work permit. Working on the side is not legal regardless of how many people may be doing so.