What Will Be Yamaha'S Next Move In Thailand?

[GarryP]

Yeah, but the Fiore is more like Fino or a Scoopy or Jelato. I meant something more suited to the taller rider, like Hayate, Elegance or PCX. Even if Fiore had been avaialble when I made my purchase, I would not even have entertained one. I look bad enough on the Hayate but would have looked an even bigger prat on a smaller sized Fiore.

[jackcorbett]

Well, Yamaha's entered the lists with the Fiori, single eyeball and Fi. And the Hayate F1, which for all I know is available now up here in CM (at 52K for spokes, last I checked).

Not incidentally, the second-hand NE I bought recently is getting 42km/l on 91 gasahol, but it does not drink E20, which is cheaper yet. Still, 42 for mostly city driving with an automatic and a "powerful" engine is surprising to me.

Although I've even put my fuel mileage stats on a spreadsheet for my Nouvo Elegance, most of the time I've been driving city here in Pattaya with my girlfriend sitting behind me. But I've not gotten close to 42. But that's with an extra 43 kilos weight too so it's difficult to say what my bike would get. Playing with numbers again but Honda claims 15 % better fuel economy for such models as the Click over their predecessors with carbs so even if fuel injection provided a 10 % increase this would increase your mileage by 4 kilometers to the liter putting it at 47. That's getting very close to what people are reporting for their PCX's and your mileage is all city. plus you have 135 cc's to feed whereas the PCX only has 125.

Although I'll admit that fuel injection would be nice to have on a Nouvo Elegance apparently Yamaha has a pretty efficient setup already with the carbed version. What I really wouldn't mind seeing is an Elegance that is left pretty much the same so far as dimensions, weight, etc but with a redesign of the fuel tank layout. As it is the Elegance has only 4,8 liters on board whereas the PCX has 6.2 liters. I'd love to have say a 7 liter or even larger fuel tank on the Elegance because this would add considerably to its range. For me that would be more important than fuel injection, but.....fuel injection would be the icing on the cake. A little redesign work and better paint schemes might well put Yamaha on top without having to go larger than that 135 c.c. engine it already has.

In other markets Yamaha offers the X Max in 125 c.c. and 250 c.c. versions. I think the 125 version is putting out around 14 horsepower. Perhaps a smart move for Yamaha would be to offer a 135 c.c. version of the Elegance and a 250. The T Max is one helluva machine but it's expensive and rather large for around here. As good as the new Honda 250 CBR apparently is, it seems the really high tech is with the top of the line automatic scooters. Think about it....1. Full auto, 2. Practically no maintenance long life drive belt, 3. in the case of the PCX an engine on/off start feature, and as for the expensive 500 c.c. T Max from what I've read it will give real motorcycles a run for the money when it comes to handling in everyday driving.

[Gippy]

I saw a Fiore the other day, navy blue and fluorescent orange.

Hideous

I have to agree with you there. I saw one a couple of weeks ago while looking for a new bike for the wife to replace her Fino. Everything about it was wrong to my eyes. I bought a nice classy looking red and gold Scoopy which rides much nicer than the Fino ever did.

Edited January 7, 2011 by Gippy

[jackcorbett]

I saw a Fiore the other day, navy blue and fluorescent orange.

Hideous

I have to agree with you there. I saw one a couple of weeks ago while looking for a new bike for the wife to replace her Fino. Everything about it was wrong to my eyes. I bought a nice classy looking red and gold Scoopy which rides much nicer than the Fino ever did.

I think the Fiore is garbage. Its worse offense is adopting small gimpy wheels and tires a la Vespa. I remember my Dad telling me when I was a little boy in the 1950's how motor scooters weren't worth a dam_n because their very small wheels and tires made them very unsafe. I see that Vespa is still living in the past and that these antiques are now called classics but what the hell, they are getting sales due to the fact that some people care more about cuteness than good engineering. Like the Vespa the Fiore is really mickey mouse and this is reflected even in its instrumentation. As far as the Fino, I still think it's got the best styling of all the "retro Vespas" including the original but the paint schemes have been pretty god awful lately. The Scoopy does not have the Finos nice lines but its paint schemes have started to eclipse the Fino by a long shot and if you take a look at the factory tires they are larger than the Finos standard tires and this will make it a more stable bike.

[LivinLOS]

I saw a Fiore the other day, navy blue and fluorescent orange.

Hideous

I have to agree with you there. I saw one a couple of weeks ago while looking for a new bike for the wife to replace her Fino. Everything about it was wrong to my eyes. I bought a nice classy looking red and gold Scoopy which rides much nicer than the Fino ever did.

I think the Fiore is garbage. Its worse offense is adopting small gimpy wheels and tires a la Vespa. I remember my Dad telling me when I was a little boy in the 1950's how motor scooters weren't worth a dam_n because their very small wheels and tires made them very unsafe. I see that Vespa is still living in the past and that these antiques are now called classics but what the hell, they are getting sales due to the fact that some people care more about cuteness than good engineering. Like the Vespa the Fiore is really mickey mouse and this is reflected even in its instrumentation. As far as the Fino, I still think it's got the best styling of all the "retro Vespas" including the original but the paint schemes have been pretty god awful lately. The Scoopy does not have the Finos nice lines but its paint schemes have started to eclipse the Fino by a long shot and if you take a look at the factory tires they are larger than the Finos standard tires and this will make it a more stable bike.

If you think the 50 - 70k thai scooters are better engineered than modern vespas, and doubly so for the non vietnam one cheaper model. You clearly havent ridden one.

Go ride a 250 or 300 vespa.. You can ride at 70 - 80 mph is perfect stability, they have superb modern engineering and make a mockery of your comments. They are in pretty much every way (except price) superior machines.

Edited January 7, 2011 by LivinLOS

[CMX]

I have not driven a Fiore, so can only remark upon its engine (improved) and design. I was given the brochure and it only shows female (awed and in love with the bike) models. Decorations come in Cool, Cute, and Chic. What the brochure reveals is Yamaha's marketing goal - young Thai women. Head to head with the Scoopy, looking for the female customers who may have been big purchasers of Fino. For all I know, the bike is good, as a bike and for some a statement.

However, I have to differ about Vespas specifically and wheels in general. I rode a Vespa all around Europe one year around the birth of the 20th century or so, and the tires (broader, maybe tougher) delivered no flats. Crossed famous mountains. What then was E. Germany to get to Berlin, when you did NOT want to have a problem. Didn't even have to fill them with air often. Far more recently I drove wide but small dimensions on scooters from Peugeot and Honda. Owned three. Same result. Designers make suspensions and tires/wheels that cooperate and I was driving on well maintained roads, mostly.

Now, I don't advance these as good solutions at high speeds where a big pothole or bad road here might make a difference - maxiscooters have bigger dimensions, after all. But I see a lot of 12" fat tires around town on bikes that blatt, and they look safe to me. (Not the drivers, usually.) In fact, a 16" tire that's skinny makes me nervous.

2 setang's worth

Edited January 7, 2011 by CMX

[LivinLOS]

However, I have to differ about Vespas specifically and wheels in general. I rode a Vespa all around Europe one year around the birth of the 20th century

WOW.. Your older than I thought

[dave_boo]

However, I have to differ about Vespas specifically and wheels in general. I rode a Vespa all around Europe one year around the birth of the 20th century

WOW.. Your older than I thought

Not only that but he must have a Tardis because he was apparently riding the Vespa at least 47 years before it was created....

[sendbaht]

Not sure but they make a great guitar.

[CMX]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A slight xaggeration. '63 (think of "E. Germany, and the Wall") and then a little later, '03 & '04. Think much of France, Northern Spain (some poor roads), Alps, Denmark, Benelux.

Three years in sum on small diameter tires but chubby tires. They too are popular, but in different places. As I say, a 16" wheel with skinny tires look risky to me, and I've had more flats here on them in six months than those 3 years together.

RichBKK says the Fiori is little, however. Given certain other prices, I don't wanna get into it about Vespa 150's at 100K baht. Meanwhile, I'm riding a Yammie NE, and it feels like old home. On topic at last.

Edited January 8, 2011 by CMX

[jackcorbett]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

My link

A slight xaggeration. '63 (think of "E. Germany, and the Wall") and then a little later, '03 & '04. Think much of France, Northern Spain (some poor roads), Alps, Denmark, Benelux.

Three years in sum on small diameter tires but chubby tires. They too are popular, but in different places. As I say, a 16" wheel with skinny tires look risky to me, and I've had more flats here on them in six months than those 3 years together.

RichBKK says the Fiori is little, however. Given certain other prices, I don't wanna get into it about Vespa 150's at 100K baht. Meanwhile, I'm riding a Yammie NE, and it feels like old home. On topic at last.

I have to agree with you about skinny 16 or 17 inch tires and wheels. From what I've seen most Honda Waves come with such skinny tires. This gives them less rolling resistance and therefore better gas mileage at the expense of less road worthiness at higher speeds. Just got back from the boonies in Korat and there must have been three Honda Waves owned by my gf's family members. All were 100 c.c. models, not 125's. So I believe that fuel economy is king with many Thais who don't have the spending power most of us do. However, even though a chubbier tire gives a better ride, better road grip, etc than a skinnier tire all other things being equal larger wheel diameter offers more stability for scooters and motorcyles center of gravity and wheel diameter & stability And here's a bit on the relative straight line stability of a Vespa versus a Triumph motorcycle with much larger diameter wheels and tires. stability provided by larger and heavier front tire size So I'll take my NE any day over any standard tire and wheel equipped Wave

[katabeachbum]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

My link

A slight xaggeration. '63 (think of "E. Germany, and the Wall") and then a little later, '03 & '04. Think much of France, Northern Spain (some poor roads), Alps, Denmark, Benelux.

Three years in sum on small diameter tires but chubby tires. They too are popular, but in different places. As I say, a 16" wheel with skinny tires look risky to me, and I've had more flats here on them in six months than those 3 years together.

RichBKK says the Fiori is little, however. Given certain other prices, I don't wanna get into it about Vespa 150's at 100K baht. Meanwhile, I'm riding a Yammie NE, and it feels like old home. On topic at last.

I have to agree with you about skinny 16 or 17 inch tires and wheels. From what I've seen most Honda Waves come with such skinny tires. This gives them less rolling resistance and therefore better gas mileage at the expense of less road worthiness at higher speeds. Just got back from the boonies in Korat and there must have been three Honda Waves owned by my gf's family members. All were 100 c.c. models, not 125's. So I believe that fuel economy is king with many Thais who don't have the spending power most of us do. However, even though a chubbier tire gives a better ride, better road grip, etc than a skinnier tire all other things being equal larger wheel diameter offers more stability for scooters and motorcyles center of gravity and wheel diameter & stability And here's a bit on the relative straight line stability of a Vespa versus a Triumph motorcycle with much larger diameter wheels and tires. stability provided by larger and heavier front tire size So I'll take my NE any day over any standard tire and wheel equipped Wave

wheels

no doubt Nuovo Elegance has better traction on skinny 16" than airblades and pcx on 14" fatter tyres

no doubt Ninja 650R has better traction on "skinny" 17" over yammy Tmax500 fatter 15 inches

more rim, less height of rubber increases traction

just my humble experience

[LivinLOS]

no doubt Nuovo Elegance has better traction on skinny 16" than airblades and pcx on 14" fatter tyres

more rim, less height of rubber increases traction

Surely thats backwards ?? That the fatter tyre of the pcx has 'more rim and less % profile' (which is what I read the above as saying) plus a fatter width so more contact patch ?? Or is the comment above about fat tyres suffering profile distortion ??

I never tried to corner especially hard on a PCX, but the ride comfort was WAY up on a NE and high speed stability also, tho I put that down to a slightly longer rake (it felt that way) and superior suspension.

[badlee]

I have been riding an X1 for the past 7 years,so I want to know when Yamaha will get their bloody fingers out and bring out something to compete with the CBR .

I hate ALL automatics,they are like sitting on a hairdryer.So,unless you are a girl OR of questionable orientation,you should get a clutch .

[dave_boo]

I have been riding an X1 for the past 7 years,so I want to know when Yamaha will get their bloody fingers out and bring out something to compete with the CBR .

I hate ALL automatics,they are like sitting on a hairdryer.So,unless you are a girl OR of questionable orientation,you should get a clutch .

You just don't understand...those with hairy legs can sit side saddle and air dry them after a day at the beach sipping cosmos...its not as if you need your feet for shifting or braking....

[badlee]

Sorry,I,being a hair monster should of thought of that!:jap:

[Skwint]

That's a very unfair statement.

I ride a Yamaha Nouvo Elegance full Automatic and I'm very happy with it. However, If I hadn't had to have ankle fusion on my left ankle that prevents me from being able to change gear, thanks to a drunk driver in a pick up truck I would be driving a larger motorcycle with a clutch and manual gear box as I always have in the past.

What a small minded person you must be to think that the type of motorcycle somone rides has anything to do with sexual orientation!

I have been riding an X1 for the past 7 years,so I want to know when Yamaha will get their bloody fingers out and bring out something to compete with the CBR .

I hate ALL automatics,they are like sitting on a hairdryer.So,unless you are a girl OR of questionable orientation,you should get a clutch .

Edited February 10, 2011 by Skwint

[katabeachbum]

That's a very unfair statement.

I ride a Yamaha Nouvo Elegance full Automatic and I'm very happy with it. However, If I hadn't had to have ankle fusion on my left ankle that prevents me from being able to change gear, thanks to a drunk driver in a pick up truck I would be driving a larger motorcycle with a clutch and manual gear box as I always have in the past.

What a small minded person you must be to think that the type of motorcycle somone rides has anything to do with sexual orientation!

I have been riding an X1 for the past 7 years,so I want to know when Yamaha will get their bloody fingers out and bring out something to compete with the CBR .

I hate ALL automatics,they are like sitting on a hairdryer.So,unless you are a girl OR of questionable orientation,you should get a clutch .

love my auto scoots, loved my auto yammy 500TMax, love my very manual gear Ninja 650R

loved my VTX 1800 to, even if it cloncked like a Harley on every shift

but scoots are just better with auto

no matter sexual orientation, oh BTW I am absolutely hetro

[MaiChai]

I have been riding an X1 for the past 7 years,so I want to know when Yamaha will get their bloody fingers out and bring out something to compete with the CBR .

I hate ALL automatics,they are like sitting on a hairdryer.So,unless you are a girl OR of questionable orientation,you should get a clutch .

If you move to Indonesia, you can have one of these: http://www.yamaha-motor.co.id/vixion/ Much nicer than the old cdbr150 IMHO. They look better in the skin than the photo.

Mind you the new cdb150 looks much more of a big bike than the old one; saw one yesterday. Guess it had a bit of an image problem being only 25cc bigger than a Wave

This forum is a bit biased: I mean for bigger bodied farangs! Not really representative of the small Asianed Thai market?

Personally I think the Fiore is horrible but its targeted as a 'run to the shops' type bike. You have to remember Thais don't generally go far on their bikes; if they do its by another means. Because its so hot here no one walks (or even cycles) anywhere; hence the small bike to run around and do your errands. Thais are very price sensitive, hence make a smaller bike, make it 'cool', and they will sell zillions of them. However, you can go too far sizing down, so its a bit of a risk for Yamaha.

[nikster]

I have been riding an X1 for the past 7 years,so I want to know when Yamaha will get their bloody fingers out and bring out something to compete with the CBR .

I hate ALL automatics,they are like sitting on a hairdryer.So,unless you are a girl OR of questionable orientation,you should get a clutch .

Real men are not afraid to ride a pink scooter. All a matter of confidence. Anyway, autos are not only for girls, I like them but then I like my Versys more

Rumor has it Yamaha will come out with a ~150cc bike soon, either similar to the KSR or similar to the smallest KLX. The guy said KSR but I can't really imagine Yamaha getting into mini bikes. Then again - who knows.

I don't know why but sales people just have loose lips...

I was pestering a Yamaha sales guy about the XT660 and the Super Tenere but he didn't know anything about that. He was hoping that they'd be coming, but that was the extent of it. He said Yamaha wanted to position itself as a sports bike brand in Thailand. Silly, but then again it's right up the alley of Yamaha Thailand really, uglifying the Fino as much as they can, not introducing a Fino FI... meh. Feel a bit sorry for the sales guys.

Edit: Oh, just read MaiChai's post - clearly that new 150 will be the Vixion then. Not totally unlike the KSR (looks bigger tho...) So, it's coming to Thailand very soon. You heard it here first.

PS: What Yamaha needs is a FI Fino. Fiore won't catch on because it's ugly. They'll sell them, but not more than Suzuki sells Steps, or Yamaha sells Mios. It's not hit material.

Edited February 10, 2011 by nikster

[MaiChai]

Wow, I want a Vixion. When is its coming? Real Thai men what a real bike; well thats why they buy cbrs. Wonder if they will restyle/update it? The Indonesian Vixon is FI. Hence why Honda had to FI the cbr. You have to remember these companies group countries together (honda AP means Asia Pacific). So Thailand, Vietnam, Phillipines, Indonesian; these are VERY similar countries in terms of selling bikes and big companies like Honda/Yamaha/Suzuki consider them as a whole.

There is a horrible 2 stroke mini Yamaha scooter that you see around; I wonder if the Thais think the Fiore is too much like this; I mean too value engineered and will look horrible like this little 2stroke bike after some use? Thais want cheap but they want something that will last. Thats why I say the Fiore is a big risk for Yamaha.

Edited February 10, 2011 by MaiChai