Busted Copying A Web Design

[Hikage]

Ok, so it was my fault... I admit it. I'm a pretty good developer, but when it comes to graphic design I'm not blessed with much natural skill.

So I copied the html source of a site with the view to changing the graphics and text, but before I could do it (stupidly made the site live before I changed it) I get a cease and disist notice from the designer. So I need some good templates (I can't afford to hire a designer). The ones I've seen around are pretty disapointing. I need something sharp from a business perspective. Does anyone know a good site?

Secondly, if I changed ALL the text and ALL the graphics of another site but the site was still the similar in terms of layout and flow would that still constitute plagiarism?

Edited August 18, 2005 by Hikage

[mike_l]

Lots of good ones at http://www.templatemonster.com/

[OxfordWill]

If you changed all the graphics and all the text but kept all the code, then yes, you are still breaking laws.

Why not learn how do make it yourself? If you're a 'pretty good developer' then adding graphics is hardly a big step on top of whatever you code in.

[nullx8]

(I can't afford to hire a designer

cannot loose 20-50 US for a professional design ??

its thailand here ;-)

designers are not that expensive ..

[britmaveric]

Ok, so it was my fault... I admit it. I'm a pretty good developer, but when it comes to graphic design I'm not blessed with much natural skill.

So I copied the html source of a site with the view to changing the graphics and text, but before I could do it (stupidly made the site live before I changed it) I get a cease and disist notice from the designer. So I need some good templates (I can't afford to hire a designer). The ones I've seen around are pretty disapointing. I need something sharp from a business perspective. Does anyone know a good site?

Secondly, if I changed ALL the text and ALL the graphics of another site but the site was still the similar in terms of layout and flow would that still constitute plagiarism?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd say its a grey area and be very hard to prove - more ethics issue in my eyes. However I'm curious how did the original designer find your website?

[Insight]

The last graphic designer I hired in Thailand set me back about 6,000 baht. This was for two concepts and a bit of consulation at the end.

Getting him to put the final concept into Dreamweaver is going to cost me a bit more, but I'm not expecting it to cost me more than 12,000 baht (for the whole 7 page site). These are apparently the industry rates.

All with help from the g/f, of course!

[nullx8]

The last graphic designer I hired in Thailand set me back about 6,000 baht. This was for two concepts and a bit of consulation at the end.

1100 THB | 600 THB | 400 THB | 1400 THB | 800 THB

and so on (net prices ;-) )

[Insight]

The last graphic designer I hired in Thailand set me back about 6,000 baht. This was for two concepts and a bit of consulation at the end.

1100 THB | 600 THB | 400 THB | 1400 THB | 800 THB

and so on (net prices ;-) )

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Glad I paid the 6,000!

Just joking - they're very good quality for the money. Will use these as a guideline for next time. Thanks!

[Hikage]

If you changed all the graphics and all the text but kept all the code, then yes, you are still breaking laws.

Why not learn how do make it yourself? If you're a 'pretty good developer' then adding graphics is hardly a big step on top of whatever you code in.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Developing code is a very different animal to graphic design.

[Hikage]

The last graphic designer I hired in Thailand set me back about 6,000 baht. This was for two concepts and a bit of consulation at the end.

1100 THB | 600 THB | 400 THB | 1400 THB | 800 THB

and so on (net prices ;-) )

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Glad I paid the 6,000!

Just joking - they're very good quality for the money. Will use these as a guideline for next time. Thanks!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

See... a good original design costs good MONEY.

[nullx8]

See... a good original design costs good MONEY.

absolutly ...

but this thread is about "low cost" ;-)

everywhere in this world the same ....

good work cost good money .. ;-)

[Hikage]

Ok, so it was my fault... I admit it. I'm a pretty good developer, but when it comes to graphic design I'm not blessed with much natural skill.

So I copied the html source of a site with the view to changing the graphics and text, but before I could do it (stupidly made the site live before I changed it) I get a cease and disist notice from the designer. So I need some good templates (I can't afford to hire a designer). The ones I've seen around are pretty disapointing. I need something sharp from a business perspective. Does anyone know a good site?

Secondly, if I changed ALL the text and ALL the graphics of another site but the site was still the similar in terms of layout and flow would that still constitute plagiarism?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd say its a grey area and be very hard to prove - more ethics issue in my eyes. However I'm curious how did the original designer find your website?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess he googled his name or a key word/phrase appearing in the text on the site and my site came up. If I'd taken all that out I'd probably be ok. ######

[Crushdepth]

I recommend hiring a professional graphic designer to do the face. As others have said, its pretty cheap and you are more likely to get a professional result. Design is a serious skill, just like coding.

That's why there's so many UGLY websites out there.

[girlx]

FYI- the average cost for a decent design in thailand is 2000 baht per page, unless you go to a high end agency, which is of course more expensive.

[Hikage]

I've seen those 2000B designs.... just not what I'm after. I'd prefer to do it myself.

[~G~]

I've seen those 2000B designs.... just not what I'm after. I'd prefer to do it myself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know what you mean Hikage, I spent many years programming in several (web and other) enviornments, with each new project learning whatever technologies required, so for a long time I was reluctant to pay someone "just" for the graphics.

But as other have put it here, graphic design and coding are very different. I can use photoshop but a good designer will do a much better job than me in the graphic side, in about 10% of the time it'll take me.

And than, another mistake is to try to teach graphic designers to do coding... Usually doesn't work as well.

[meelousee]

Funny how some prefer to steal rather than ask for help.

Then complain when they get caught stealing.

The term for those who are computer liberate is called hot link when you do it and don’t have authorization they nail you. That is of course if they know what the flack they are doing.

I would suggest this thread be deleted as it will only foster more idiots that prefer to hack, steal and confuse the issue of web design.

Like this PHP web you can buy it, get a free one or steal the content but not the functionality.

You need help there are some real good HTML experts that will hand it to you on a silver platter, and those who will cheat you for 10 stang of work for 100 baht. OK?

Pretty stupid I am a pro and don’t charge anything for those who ask but those who profess I can do on my own and then stoop to stealing well ....

Bugger off!

[Hikage]

I've seen those 2000B designs.... just not what I'm after. I'd prefer to do it myself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know what you mean Hikage, I spent many years programming in several (web and other) enviornments, with each new project learning whatever technologies required, so for a long time I was reluctant to pay someone "just" for the graphics.

But as other have put it here, graphic design and coding are very different. I can use photoshop but a good designer will do a much better job than me in the graphic side, in about 10% of the time it'll take me.

And than, another mistake is to try to teach graphic designers to do coding... Usually doesn't work as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed, but I can come up with a good design drawing creatively from the other good sites I see around the web, and therefore bypass the hassle in dealing with graphic designers.

I don't think I'd be the first person to have done this

We all borrow (consciously or otherwise)

Anyway, new site is done and looks great IMO

[OxfordWill]

Yea, close the thread. You're a thief and you only seem to be sorry about not having got away with it.

People feed their children producing what you try/tried to steal.

Edited August 19, 2005 by OxfordWill

[nullx8]

Anyway, new site is done and looks great IMO

url ?

or just "hot air" ;-)))

[meelousee]

Anyway, new site is done and looks great IMO

url ?

or just "hot air" ;-)))

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep hot air, never posted a URL to begin with. Let's see if he has a copyright notice on it if he does...

Sorta been there done that slinging statment does not carry much weight.

I still think this whole thread sould be deleted. even if I am drunk

[Hikage]

Yea, close the thread. You're a thief and you only seem to be sorry about not having got away with it.

People feed their children producing what you try/tried to steal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OxfordWill, I stole nothing except a BASIC initial html flow (which has been changed radically also). All the artwork graphics and text including css + font is mine. I also wrote my own jscript.

I also told the original designer to take a look and he said it was no problem, even thought some parts were an improvement.

[cdnvic]

I've seen those 2000B designs.... just not what I'm after. I'd prefer to do it myself.

Isn't the whole problem here that you didn't do it yourself, and stole someone else's? Sure you changed the content, but stealing a copy of a game and then saving your own games on it doesn't make it yours.

If you can't afford to do your business properly and invest what it requires, them you should find something to do that you have either the required skills for, or have the capital to properly fund.

Better yet, why not trade some of your coding skill for the work of a designer without it that could use your assistance? (Ask first this time.)

cv

[Hikage]

Is a cook who takes someone else's recipe changes a few ingredience and adds some of his/her own to produce a unique dish also a thief? Like I said the original designer is happy that I have created a unique item. Aside from my already aknowledged mistake of putting his unmodified site online, I believe I have done no wrong.

[cdnvic]

Is a cook who takes someone else's recipe changes a few ingredience and adds some of his/her own to produce a unique dish also a thief?

If you steal a can of beef stock, and add meat, veggies, and make a unique stew, then yes.

I believe I have done no wrong.

You have a convenient set of morals. You started out saying you got busted copying a web design. You say things like "I stole only the...". And yet you magicly have done nothing wrong.

You certainly did start backpeddaling when a few people stood up and said your actions were unacceptable. Good on 'em

cv

[Hikage]

Is a cook who takes someone else's recipe changes a few ingredience and adds some of his/her own to produce a unique dish also a thief?

If you steal a can of beef stock, and add meat, veggies, and make a unique stew, then yes.

I believe I have done no wrong.

You have a convenient set of morals. You started out saying you got busted copying a web design. You say things like "I stole only the...". And yet you magicly have done nothing wrong.

You certainly did start backpeddaling when a few people stood up and said your actions were unacceptable. Good on 'em

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, I WAS busted, Like I've said for the umpteenth time shouldn't have done that...putting someone elses work on my domain was wrong for sure. I'm quite upfront about it I think... I'm not backbeddling, just defending my point of view.

Oh yeah, and I bought the can of beef stock

Edited August 20, 2005 by Hikage

[Thomas_Merton]

I think this discussion on original design, copyright and freedom of information is bit of a red herring when talking about "web design".

The whole nature of www has been "free" coding (the languages) where the "cut and paste" of routines has been commonplace.

Occasionally coders have placed copyright on routines and they, but mostly middle men, have received some royalties.

But taking all this up as an issue, disguises the legitimate ways an average coder can produce a well designed website.

Most web bureaus, despite their protestations, do not employ a graphic designer to find an original design that passes in concept to an individual firms needs. Yes, if the firm is a prestigious firm with an equally prestigious budget, will the web bureaus hire a graphic designer to use his unique skills on their coding.

But the vast majority of web bureaus, take their designs from huge template collections they have bought from professional design firms such as Boxedart.. These are then adapted to the needs of the customer - usually disguised in a charge for a graphic artist.

The professional production of websites has a standard of practice that is no more, and no less, in both quality and honesty, than the average car repair workshop.

Therefore holier than thou attitudes concerning the stealing of bread from others tables is, in my experience, a little misplaced.

[Tornado]

edit!

Edited August 20, 2005 by Tornado

[OxfordWill]

Thomas, no offence, you seem such a lovely fella sometimes but your entire post is a load of pigswill. Some companies do use templates but the vast vast majority do not.

More importantly, the 'www' is not 'free' and just because you once read about GNU doesn't mean you should hold such an opinion.

[Hikage]

Thomas, no offence, you seem such a lovely fella sometimes but your entire post is a load of pigswill. Some companies do use templates but the vast vast majority do not.

More importantly, the 'www' is not 'free' and just because you once read about GNU doesn't mean you should hold such an opinion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OxfordWill, you seem to have taken the moral highground against copying others' intelectual property, and let me state once more that I don't believe I did. But I'm sure you have never taped a TV show or purchased a DVD from Panthip or used p2p file sharing such as ummmm Shareaza... and even if you DID, I'm sure it was to obtain only freely distributable material.

Therefore holier than thou attitudes concerning the stealing of bread from others tables is, in my experience, a little misplaced.

So true.