Banking service???????

[themuse1969]

Topit title and description say it all about my first question. Second one is, Can I do free health consultations with individuals on a donation basis? I know chiropractors and other natural health professionals

in the U.S. that manage their practices successfully this way. But, here, it is a question about what Immigration would allow, regardless of anything else.

[Jingthing]

First question -- technically illegal without a work permit. In reality, if you keep a low profile, don't have any Thai customers or suppliers, and the money flows are all non-Thai, nobody cares! The laws as in many countries have not kept up with the realities of globalization.

Second question -- someone else will answer, but I think quite obviously, you can't do that here without a work permit. But stay tuned for other opinions.

So what visa do you intend to use to reside in Thailand, assuming you won't be going the business route?

Edited December 12, 2010 by Jingthing

[mamypoko]

I'd love to know the answer to this...I work online and have for the last 10 years. Have resided in Bkk for 3 + years and have alway wondered. My company is located smack dab in the middle of nowhere....must be a few (million) of us out there.

[jimky]

US citizen as well, all income internet based with no Thai clients.

2 legal firms here have told me that working from place of residence with no assistance from Thai's and no Thai clients no work permit is needed. Immigration officer said different, though seemed unsure.

Edited December 12, 2010 by jimky

[Jingthing]

If doing so, informing immigration you are doing so, is simply not done ...

[jazzbo]

A quick perusal of Chiropractic and Wellness consultants in the USA offering 'free' consultations with a donation shows that those consultations follow proof of a donation made to third parties such as Children's Miracle Network or the local food bank ... the donation is not to the consultant him / herself ...

[olsen]

You are not allowed to work in Thailand without a work permit in both cases!

In the first case don't worry, coz thousands are doing the same as you...but if caught (somehow - maybe you have a friend or girlfriend who gets angry at you and report you)...then you will be jailed, fined and deported!

In the second case you're not allowed, even if you don't earn any money on the job. Even charity workers need a work permit!

[Jingthing]

You are not allowed to work in Thailand without a work permit in both cases!

In the first case don't worry, coz thousands are doing the same as you...but if caught (somehow - maybe you have a friend or girlfriend who gets angry at you and report you)...then you will be jailed, fined and deported!

In the second case you're not allowed, even if you don't earn any money on the job. Even charity workers need a work permit!

I agree with most of what you say. However, on the first case, the discreet online worker with no interaction with the Thai economy, I don't actually believe most people would be prosecuted for that here even if reported by a local enemy. I don't think immigration takes that very seriously and for the most part if they even think about it they see it as a grey area of the law, but that is only my subjective opinion based on watching the news here for many years. Think of the reality of this. A foreigner is cooking in a restaurant without a work permit. Clear and obvious. A foreigner is banging on his computer in his condo. Not much different than posting on Thaivisa, is it?

Edited December 13, 2010 by Jingthing

[manarak]

Put your online activity in an offshore shell company.

That way, the revenue is made abroad.

[Jingthing]

The financial aspects should of course be exterior to Thailand. Of course, importing any profits later for living purposes is a private matter.

This may come down to risk tolerance. In my view the chances of running into legal trouble in Thailand caused by private business activity in your home with no interaction with the Thai economy (no customers, no business structure, no bank accounts, no service or goods providers) is less than one percent. Technically if you are using a Thai phone line/internet provider, etc. for your access to your global business, well that muddies this a bit. Some people may perceive the risk as very high. It would be impossible to determine the objective truth of the actual risk.

I think there is consensus that it is technically illegal. However, as I said before, this is probably more of a matter of the laws being out of date to modern technological realities.

Edited December 13, 2010 by Jingthing

[jazzbo]

OOPs JT mentions IP service provider above ... I do think the use of the word 'donation' implying some sort of charity is misleading and in and of itself could lead to further scrutiny

Edited December 13, 2010 by jazzbo

[Moonrakers]

I'm not American, but I work online also.

Once I am making an income that makes it feasible, I would like to get fully legal. Not because I am afraid of being caught and prosecuted because I think that is extremely unlikely. I want to do so because the government occasionally likes to change visa requirements and I wouldn't like to find myself unable to explain myself being here without an income I can claim.

Fortunately for me though Mrs. 'Rakers is quite capable if doing most of that for me which will save me a considerable amount in lawyer's fees.

Edited December 14, 2010 by Moonrakers

[IMA_FARANG]

To be honest...No you can't legally work without a work permit...even if you derive no income from that "work". And "work" is defined as any activity other than "play", I guess. Even signing your name is "work". Even on the internet it's "work".

But frankly, Thai laws really haven't caught up with the reality of the situation. The laws available are just not dealing properly with the reality of online employment in today's world. Until they do, it will continue to be "illegal".

Frankly, that makes no sense, as niether the foriegner or the Thai government gets any benefit from the laws as they are now.

I've tried to propose that certain foriegners, such as software developers, artists, photographers, and others who earn their livleyhood online and derive all of their income from sources OUTSIDE of Thailand, should be allowed to purchase a Self Employed Work Permit and Visa annually. This would allow them to reside in Thailand for a year (with annual renewals)and work online during the time period of the visa. There would be a yearly fee to obtain this visa, but it should not be so high that such people could not afford that fee. The income earned by these foriegners, at least the part they brought into Thailand to live on, would be subject to Thai taxes at the same rate as a Thai living in Thailand would pay.

The advantages would be:

1. For the foriegner...a legal way to reside in Thailand and make a living while here.

2. For the Thai government...a method of earning some annual revenue from those foriegners who apply for this Self Employment Work Permit and Visa.

3. For the foriegner...a benefit as the living costs in Thailand are generally lower than living in a Euopean country or in the U.S.

4. And finally, for the Thai governemnt...a source of revenue on the taxes paid by the foriegner on the funds brought into Thailand that he/she uses to live in Thailand.

Of course that's just a quick overview, but I think the idea is valid. It would be of benefit to both Thailand and to those foriegners who honestly want to live here and earn their living while here.

So the Self Employed Work Permit and Visa I propose would be a "win-win" proposition for both sides.

But, to be honest, I don't ever expect to see it happen.

[Jingthing]

If there was a self employment visa and the you could get an annual stay just based on a fee and a statement and/or businesess structure saying you are in business, it would be abused by many people posing as being self employed. You might say a profit would need to be proven but in reality many small businesses go many years without showing a profit.

[Moonrakers]

It's one of those things that needs a common sense approach. So let's not hold our breath!

[Moonrakers]

You might say a profit would need to be proven but in reality many small businesses go many years without showing a profit.

Doesn't have to be a profit. Just revenue should do.

If somebody can't prove their revenue stream then that could be an issue, but I suspect that the vast majority can.

[jazzbo]

from #13 I've tried to propose that certain foriegners ...should be allowed to purchase a Self Employed Work Permit and Visa annually. Hired a lobbyist?