Sin Sot Psychology And Consequent Burnout

[Scully]

I just thought I would add my two bahts worth, I have been with my girlfriend over two years and she has visited the UK with me. She is well educated and understands how people do it in the west ie dating, long engagment then marriage.

She saw my dad give my mum money for shopping again seeing different sides to our culture's. This was then explained to her parents on our return, the situation is now they don't want sin sot they just want us married with a small family party.

The reason for this is when people ask if we are married the family have to say no which they do not like one bit. My girlfriend however understands and in her words she does not care what people think. She does want us to get married though as it's a women thing however there is plenty of time for that .

There is no age difference between us and are still youngish 30's and as long as I take care of her (not money wise) and she is happy then her parents are happy. Thats what every parent wants for their children not just 40k to buy a little face.

I understand every family is different though a little education into the western way could bring a little compromise.

[Loz]

I'm curious: for the camp that flatly refuses to pay SinSot as it's not their way. What do you do with your partner for other customs, and where do you draw the line?

The agreement should be that neither party has to do anything they are uncomfortable with.

This is why its worth reading these threads. Someone out of nowhere will post a nugget of PURE GOLD!

[Latindancer]

I agree ! It is a basic human right that neither party has to do anything they are uncomfortable with.

Edited December 16, 2010 by Latindancer

[nocturn]

What ever you agree to or compromise on now, you are laying the foundation for your future.

Many posters will disagree with what I am about to say, however it has worked out for me. I don't think money comes into this (for the Op), its more to do with control or lack thereof.

You are stepping into a union where traditionally you have been brought up where you would one day be in control or at least have a 50% share of the control with your wife.

You are perhaps now recognising that decisions are being made without you and your opinion is not worth to others in your union what it is worth to you.

You may need to place your wife on side. She is marrying a westerner and she has chosen to do so in the same manner you have chosen to marry a Thai. There is no compromise there, this is what you both want. The compromise must exist on the parents side where they expect to maintain decision making power. Its hard work but you need to crack this or you will face headaches with interfering parents for the rest of your days - It is also the one sure fire way to either gain the true respect of your In Laws or destroy your relationship, a lot of it depends on the strength of your wife and the strength of her feelings towards you compared to her family.

Your wife needs to understand that a compromise exists on both sides but must also be prepared to choose you over her parents should it come to that. The parents will pick up on this and things may likely become easier between all of you once they have accepted this reality that you are the one in charge.

I was extremely stubborn with many aspects of my wedding, I often provided my wife with the explanation that I am saying no in some cases to plant the seed in her parents eyes that what ever decisions are made in the future, its down to us. After periods of tension there is now a very harmonious family relationship where my views are respected equally (and often more so)... Oh, and I gave sin-sod and it was all returned.

excellent post. that is how i approached it as well.

[LarrySilverstein]

When it feels wrong, it probably is wrong..

[Chunky1]

Sin Sot is important because it sets the precedent that you are a buffalo and will work hard to provide whiskey and cigs and gambling money for the in-laws. A very long time ago, they sent their daughter to the big city in search of this buffalo. Thus, it is important to have a ceremony to honor that she has obtained said buffalo. This is going to be one of the happiest days in your wife's life and in the life of her family. Finally, the buffalo is here and hard times are gone!

[richard_smith237]

Sin Sot is important because it sets the precedent that you are a buffalo and will work hard to provide whiskey and cigs and gambling money for the in-laws. A very long time ago, they sent their daughter to the big city in search of this buffalo. Thus, it is important to have a ceremony to honor that she has obtained said buffalo. This is going to be one of the happiest days in your wife's life and in the life of her family. Finally, the buffalo is here and hard times are gone!

When I read your posts Chunky1 I do wonder where in Thailand you have spent your time, who you have spent it with and how you have developed such a strong and negative opinion.

It leads me to believe there are area's of Thailand where people simply have not one dash of respect for anyone else, while I can't say have have travelled Thailand extensively (i.e. I've not been to the North east in my 13 years here) I have never found reason to feel such negativity..... Like anywhere else there are good and bad people and good and bad aspects of life...

[Chunky1]

What are you on about? Sin Sot is supposed to be returned to the bride and groom. If you are giving your wife's family sin sot that they keep you are not following Thai culture. You are following Thai-Farang Kwai culture. I make many jokes on Thai Visa because I can't believe how many farangs cut their own balls off and hand it to their wife's family on a silver platter. Let's stop deluding ourselves here.

[cdnvic]

Before we start beating each other up here, there is no one set "Thai" way of dealing with this issue. It varies by village, region, family, generation, and social class, among many other variables. No single explanation covers it.Two people may have vastly different experiences and both be giving an accurate description of their experiences.

[richard_smith237]

What are you on about? Sin Sot is supposed to be returned to the bride and groom. If you are giving your wife's family sin sot that they keep you are not following Thai culture. You are following Thai-Farang Kwai culture. I make many jokes on Thai Visa because I can't believe how many farangs cut their own balls off and hand it to their wife's family on a silver platter. Let's stop deluding ourselves here.

Ah well... Why didn't you say so... I agree with you totally then - Apologies for not quite catching the satire in your comments.....

[473geo]

It is indeed an unfortunate and individual experience of Thailand, if a poster reveals that his experience allows him to label all who insist on sin sot as smoking,drinking, gambling, money grabbers........perhaps a slight broadening of his individual experiences is in order.

Edited December 17, 2010 by 473geo

[richard_smith237]

Before we start beating each other up here, there is no one set "Thai" way of dealing with this issue. It varies by village, region, family, generation, and social class, among many other variables. No single explanation covers it.Two people may have vastly different experiences and both be giving an accurate description of their experiences.

Agreed...

The ones who paid sin-sod and get the money returned are liked and respected by their In Laws

The ones who paid sin-sod and didn't get the money returned are likely not to be respected by their In Laws.

The ones who refused to pay sin-sod are likely not to be respected by their In Laws, but maybe tolerated.

Different experiences, all with highly probable results.

[473geo]

Before we start beating each other up here, there is no one set "Thai" way of dealing with this issue. It varies by village, region, family, generation, and social class, among many other variables. No single explanation covers it.Two people may have vastly different experiences and both be giving an accurate description of their experiences.

Agreed...

The ones who paid sin-sod and get the money returned are liked and respected by their In Laws

The ones who paid sin-sod and didn't get the money returned are likely not to be respected by their In Laws.

The ones who refused to pay sin-sod are likely not to be respected by their In Laws, but maybe tolerated.

Different experiences, all with highly probable results.

The ones that have not even been approached for sin sot may also experience any of the above reactions......

[GreenSnapper]

In Thailand, you pay Sin Sod before the marriage.

In the West, you pay after marriage. They don't call it "Sin Sod", but "alimony", must often be paid for a lifetime and the total costs are rarely below 3 Million Baht.

Go figure...

[fletchsmile]

I'm curious: for the camp that flatly refuses to pay SinSot as it's not their way. What do you do with your partner for other customs, and where do you draw the line?

The agreement should be that neither party has to do anything they are uncomfortable with.

An honest agreement indeed... yet should we always measure relationships in terms of agreements and what we are comfortable with?... isn't there also sometimes an even greater comfort to be had by doing something uncomfortable for someone you care about?... and if that person where to reciprocate sometimes wouldn't life be a little richer?

[fletchsmile]

Don't know why I can never automatically quote OP anymore, but quoting:

Replying to the original post was disabled some time ago because certian respnders couldn't help themselves and copied the whole OP with a single word response, pretty stupid really, kinda reminds me of 95% of posts on this thread.

Ah.. Thanks Mossfinn.

Just read your signature. Thanks for the reminder about Seonai. Thoughtful

Hi Fletch, I generally keep out of the scrum in General, but sometimes decide to get involved in the ruck and maul, occasionally catch the ball in the 22 and try and make some hard yards.

Second thread I notice that I have stumbled across you trying to make sense to the disorder, deliberate misinformation and crass nonsense, but good to see.

I would like to see some fireworks like the dragon at Bilbos birthday, can you oblige?

Seonai, 18 months, hard to believe really.

Good Luck

Moss

MossFin

Fireworks and dragons are of ease compare to the complexities of Thailand. Unfortunately few people of today make it to their eleventy first birthday, and perhaps there is good reason for that when we read these threads.

Yet for others we wish they could have

Good luck to you also my friend...

[philw]

It is indeed an unfortunate and individual experience of Thailand, if a poster reveals that his experience allows him to label all who insist on sin sot as smoking,drinking, gambling, money grabbers........perhaps a slight broadening of his individual experiences is in order.

Yes.

My( Thai ) brother in law paid "sin sot " of something like 243,579 baht to his wifes, very traditional Chinese family.

It was a very specific amount, paid and displayed with deference and almost immediately returned to him.

A token gesture and calculated on some, unknown to me, astrological principle.

Both are well educated and high earners.

She works in a bank and he is in advertising television production.

No big deal.

In this case the amount had a significance ( who knows how calculated ) but I think that was about it.

They had been living together for the previous 8 years about.

[random]

Every time a thai woman goes down the avenue of trying to tell you she is a good girl because she is Thai, point out her nationality has nothing whatsoever to do with it, then point out all the girls on cowboy and nana are thai so her good standing is because she is thai then surely all these should have good standing also. Point out she is a good women because she is a good woman and not because she is thai, when they say you know nothing about thai culture simply say that in your opinion based on observations thai culture is corruption, selfishness,lack of common sense and logic etc etc etc. if she insists that Thai culture should be respected then also insist that your culture be respected and you also want to marry in your home country where the brides father pays for the wedding, then step back and watch him shit himself.

[Heng]

then point out all the girls on cowboy and nana are thai so her good standing is because she is thai then surely all these should have good standing also.

That no doubt goes over well.

[TAWP]

Yes.

My( Thai ) brother in law paid "sin sot " of something like 243,579 baht to his wifes, very traditional Chinese family.

It was a very specific amount, paid and displayed with deference and almost immediately returned to him.

A token gesture and calculated on some, unknown to me, astrological principle.

Both are well educated and high earners.

She works in a bank and he is in advertising television production.

No big deal.

In this case the amount had a significance ( who knows how calculated ) but I think that was about it.

They had been living together for the previous 8 years about.

Sin sod for show is a no-brainier.

However, in most cases when guys ask about it here or complain...it isn't. It is money that are or is going to be kept.

[Bagwan]

My attitude towards father in law (her mother died some 20 years ago) is one of obdurate refusal  towards his pleas of financial assistance after he tried to inveigle 200K baht out of her (well me really) with a demonstrable lie. The argument that he should be repaid for the hassle and expense of her upbringing does not hold any water. 

My argument is why should she (read we) assist him when he took her out of school at the tender age of 9 years and set her to working the fields and around the home? And what did he do with the money she earned planting and reaping rice in somebody else's fields? Drank it of course. What did he do with the money when he sold her to in marriage to a local ne'er do well calling it sin sot? Drank it. What will he do if I relent and offer assistance. Hardly the 64 thousand dollar question is it? Reap what you have sown old man. 

There is nothing but harmony with the rest of the family, who we have and do provide for, none of whom assist him either.

[glomp]

For me, im in the first thai lady category, the mom and pops are nice, brothers meh.

The father in law wants a fairly large sum of cash to pay for elephants, dancing monkeys and what the heck not on the supposed wedding day. When we got engaged i paid for 2 baths of gold for the lady and the FiL paid 20k more to buy a good party.

I won't pay the sum they asked first but i have no doubth they money is for "our best interest". For 40k i would have paid him 2x just to shut him up.

Elephants and nubile young ladies dancing on a stage however is more expensive

Might have to be a sneak wedding in farang land as i don't wish to fall of an elephant and break my neck.

[Chang_paarp]

Every discussion I have about sin-sot with a Thai girl starts with comment, that in my culture the girl's parents pay the groom's family to take the girl from them and what dowry will they be paying me?

It causes some interesting double takes.

[Derifo]

None. You were right the first time. It sounds exactly like she is selling herself.

My wife told me I have to buy her from her family.

[Bagwan]

Just a thought. Why don't the marketing departments of banks get their act together and design a monster sized cheque with lots of suitable decoration that could, after an appropriate amount had been entered thereon, be set in a thin show case that could be displayed instead of the folding stuff? Who is to know that the groom isn't good for 10 million? Honour satisfied ( if a little sullied ) and finances safe guarded.

[craigt3365]

Just a thought. Why don't the marketing departments of banks get their act together and design a monster sized cheque with lots of suitable decoration that could, after an appropriate amount had been entered thereon, be set in a thin show case that could be displayed instead of the folding stuff? Who is to know that the groom isn't good for 10 million? Honour satisfied ( if a little sullied ) and finances safe guarded.

Great idea! I just used a bank book which showed a significant amount being transferred into it a few days before...which was (mostly) transferred back out a few days later!

I did a google search on this and a bunch of hits showed up for companies that make these. I think this is a great idea!!! And what's perfect is that you can't actually cash it!

[XXpate48USA]

What are you on about? Sin Sot is supposed to be returned to the bride and groom. If you are giving your wife's family sin sot that they keep you are not following Thai culture. You are following Thai-Farang Kwai culture. I make many jokes on Thai Visa because I can't believe how many farangs cut their own balls off and hand it to their wife's family on a silver platter. Let's stop deluding ourselves here.

absolutely! Just checked and I got back safe, but still had to check and make sure I didn't lose one!....sure felt like I did though....ughh...My philosophy is, don't give anything there that you wouldn't in your own country. You sure won't gain and respect for smarts if you do, on top of that, it will be expected again....untill YOU say nooooo.....Even if you get to keep your balls it will feel like you lost em.....

Ah well... Why didn't you say so... I agree with you totally then - Apologies for not quite catching the satire in your comments.....

[XXpate48USA]

You are one lucky guy to have a woman that is smart enough to realize it is not the right thing to do (anymore) her parents already got one sin sof the first time around(as it sounds she was married before). What is wrong with just being happy and don't worry about MONEY.Thsi has gotten to be a quite abused thing when it comers to the new FALANG , whi it a milllionaire and they want some.

That's it. Use your head and let her say no. Let her parents do what they have been doing but maybe help out with a couple or 5 k per month IF and only if you can afford it.

My wife lied to me and tried to use "never married" and "no children to try and get as much from me as possible. If you have a wife that is Thai and she is not being greedy about this , then count your blessing, my friend!....That money normal Used to be held for the wife if things did not work out. It is not payment for fattening the cow up for sale and now is time to sell it because it was raised proper. Do not let the parents blind side you with that culture thing. It about the money!!!!!...not anything more. It's time they didn't have the need to strut and say see look what we have like a 6 year old....keep the wife and keep your money to help your new life together , then when you are all done with what you need and have extra, then maybe you can help out a little from time to time. You are not into paying her parents for lifetime....It'sstupid and your wife knows it!!!.......sounds like you are one of the lucky guys and now you are the one trying to pay to please her parents?...let them have you, isn't that enough that your wife is happy?

None. You were right the first time. It sounds exactly like she is selling herself.

[XXpate48USA]

Before we start beating each other up here, there is no one set "Thai" way of dealing with this issue. It varies by village, region, family, generation, and social class, among many other variables. No single explanation covers it.Two people may have vastly different experiences and both be giving an accurate description of their experiences.

Agreed...

The ones who paid sin-sod and get the money returned are liked and respected by their In Laws

The ones who paid sin-sod and didn't get the money returned are likely not to be respected by their In Laws.

The ones who refused to pay sin-sod are likely not to be respected by their In Laws, but maybe tolerated.

Different experiences, all with highly probable results.

Yes, but should you really care whether respect for you comes by how much money you give to a (already been married before) woman? Personally If someone can't respect you for just being a good guy and taking good care of your wife and she is happy, then why care what they think?.....do you respect that sense of respect?....keep the wife and keep the money for you and her together, take a trip and only visit the parents. and Don't and I repeat don't live with the parents!!...you will regret it as you are last in line in that home , even with your wife!!....

[XXpate48USA]

I wouldnt pay a bean as it's a Thai and not farang tradition.

Asking Sin Sod from farangs has to be a piss take.

Quote: If your Thai woman is reasonable and understanding (which is usually never) she will neither expect nor will demand sin sod-- and neither will her parents. But unfortunately, there are some Thai women, mostly whores and gold diggers, who will take advantage of a farang's ignorance in order to con them out of some money.

A fool and his money are soon parted in Thailand.

AMEN!!!!!