Over 50 killed in latest U.S. drone strikes in Pakistan

[beechguy]

If you got some of your knowledge from first hand experience instead of reading websites and newspapers you would probably think differently.

Sure pal....There is a stool for you somewhere in Pataya Im sure.

I hear all the "In The Know" guys formerly of a 3 letter govt group sit & compare fictional glory days.

Get over yourself & realize your just another keyboard in cyberspace. Your glory days exist in your mind only & don't impress here.

Have something with actual content to add? Other than claims of superior knowledge?

No claims just facts, and to set the record straight, I'm not a soldier, not a Rambo type, and not CIA or any other type. Just a guy that recognizes Bulls--t when I read it.

[flying]

No claims just facts,

Sure pal....um hmmm....ah haa.. yup :lol:

Edited December 21, 2010 by flying

[SweeneyAgonistes]

What do you call suicide bomb attacks that kill and maim, what do you call IED that kill and maim, what do you call ragheads who plan and carry out these attacks in the name of god ? freinds ,

Well, until recently, the americans called them exactly that (well, not exactly that - I think it was 'freedom fighters'). And gave them lots of money and guns. In fact, the Karzai government is so corrupt that they're probably still doing it.

[beechguy]

No claims just facts,

Sure pal....um hmmm....ah haa.. yup :lol:

I guess if you keep writing you'll eventually convince someone you know what your writing about, I just haven't seen any evidence yet, or facts for that matter.

[flying]

No claims just facts,

I guess if you keep writing you'll eventually convince someone you know what your writing about, I just haven't seen any evidence yet, or facts for that matter.

Your the only one posting a lot & saying nothing ...yet stating...No Claims...Just Facts....<sic>

Give it a rest or add something to the actual topic if you have anything.

[flying]

Well, until recently, the americans called them exactly that (well, not exactly that - I think it was 'freedom fighters'). And gave them lots of money and guns. In fact, the Karzai government is so corrupt that they're probably still doing it.

Good factual wit but I fear it will fly over a few heads

[beechguy]

No claims just facts,

I guess if you keep writing you'll eventually convince someone you know what your writing about, I just haven't seen any evidence yet, or facts for that matter.

Your the only one posting a lot & saying nothing ...yet stating...No Claims...Just Facts....<sic>

Give it a rest or add something to the actual topic if you have anything.

I did present some facts, and unfortunately had to respond to some ignorant comments along the way. The topic is drone attacks, so where's your facts?

I would post some personal examples, but then that would probably put me in a cell similar to Manning's, thanks but I'll pass.

Earlier I posted a link to this U.N. Report in a response to a post, but that series was deleted. I'll submit again. In the report, all though not perfect, it shows a substantial improvement in reducing civilian casualties caused by the U.S. and other forces, the same cannot be said for the Taliban and the other insurgent forces.

http://unama.unmissions.org/Default.aspx?tabid=1741&ctl=Details&mid=1882&ItemID=9955

Edited December 21, 2010 by beechguy

[SweeneyAgonistes]

Well, because it's been deleted, it's only fair to say: you presented one fact which was that in the first 6 months of this year, the Taliban killed about 900 civilians and the 'good guys' killed about 300.

[flying]

I did present some facts

Yes you did...

It's not murder, and I guess you don't watch the news much do you.

Accidental would keep it from being murder wouldn't it.

And then...Not so much

I'm there for some of it first hand

[beechguy]

Well, because it's been deleted, it's only fair to say: you presented one fact which was that in the first 6 months of this year, the Taliban killed about 900 civilians and the 'good guys' killed about 300.

And the point was, the U.S. tried to reduce casualties, the Taliban and their fellow insurgent brothers did not, if anything they escalated their attacks on civilians. What would be your solution?

[beechguy]

Flying, for your post #69, I guess I'm missing it, but where's your facts and comments on the drone attacks?

[flying]

Flying, for your post #69, I guess I'm missing it, but where's your facts and comments on the drone attacks?

That would be post #2 Beech.....The first comment on the thread.

That is what we do here as it is a forum

But of course at times we get drivel like this....On which we all have a good laugh & call BS

Look up the definition of murder, it is not murder. And I don't have to watch the news, I'm there for some of it first hand, not sitting on my ass behind a computer monitor talking or running my fingers on a keyboard as it were, about stuff I know nothing about.

Get over yourself ....Beech

Edited December 21, 2010 by flying

[beechguy]

Flying, for your post #69, I guess I'm missing it, but where's your facts and comments on the drone attacks?

That would be post #2 Beech.....The first comment on the thread.

That is what we do here as it is a forum

But of course at times we get drivel like this....On which we all have a good laugh & call BS

Look up the definition of murder, it is not murder. And I don't have to watch the news, I'm there for some of it first hand, not sitting on my ass behind a computer monitor talking or running my fingers on a keyboard as it were, about stuff I know nothing about.

Get over yourself ....Beech

I din't see any real facts, just an opinion based on ignorance of the situation, hence the other comments. I'll check back later to see if you have managed to come up with anything.

[Wallaby]

Kind of humorous to see some posters trying to dignify the US drones by saying they aren't as bad as the taliban. Wow, nice comparison.

[Ulysses G.]

Why, wasn't that who they are being used against?

[beechguy]

Kind of humorous to see some posters trying to dignify the US drones by saying they aren't as bad as the taliban. Wow, nice comparison.

I suppose that says something about the people who don't see the difference between making mistakes and hitting civilians, versus those that intentionally target the civilians.

Edited December 21, 2010 by beechguy

[koheesti]

The Taliban offered to hand Bin Landen over to a neutral country if the americans gave them proof of Bin Laden's guilt and stopped bombing their country. However unpleasant the Taliban are/were, those are not unreasonable demands and I would certainly hope that Britain would ask for proof before handing over a suspect to the americans (although they probably wouldn't because British governments are astonishingly spineless when it comes to dealing with the americans).

I remember the Taliban's offer.

Serious question - Which countries were neutral immediately after 9/11? Switzerland?

I didn't realise what a tough question that was. I guess that shows the Taliban offer to be BS.

[geriatrickid]

Kind of humorous to see some posters trying to dignify the US drones by saying they aren't as bad as the taliban. Wow, nice comparison.

It's not humorous in the least. The alternative to drones is to use the Russian Chechnya strategy of massive carpet artillery barrages. ISAF could easily bomb the Taliban havens into dirt, but has instead opted for strategic directed strikes that serve two purposes;

1. To take out the combatants with as little collateral damage as possible and,

2. To send a message, that no matter how much they try, the Taliban killers can not hide from the long arm of justice.

Don't blame the ISAF because the Taliban hide behind willing human shields. The Taliban havens are usually family compounds. Everyone who is old enough to carry a weapon is a hostile combatant. There are no civilians in a Taliban compound. Only a naive fool ignores that fact. The Taliban women serve one purpose and that's to spit out as many fighters as possible. Sorry, but that's what it's like in the stone age Taliban areas.

Edited December 22, 2010 by geriatrickid

[slapout]

A post that is pretty hard to argue against. Call it like you see it and let the chips fall where they may.

[mark45y]

No I mean, that if many of you saw things first hand, you would understand what is going on. Some of you seem to be under the impression they are launching these drone attacks and shooting up the place at will, that's not the case.

No, I'd have a very partial view of what happened in a few instances but because I would be involved in it, I'd be in worse position to make a judgment, That's why, for example, the practice of embedding journalists is so terrible (and why governments are so keen on it). As for shooting up the place, thousands of innocents have been killed by drone attacks. That sounds like shooting up the place to me.

Serious question - Which countries were neutral immediately after 9/11? Switzerland?

I don't' know but the offer was instantly refused by Bush so the question never arose. The refusal was not based on a rejection of the neutrality of any particular country which had been proposed; it was based on america's 'right' to kick in any doors which it chose to kick in.

War is a bad thing. People who know about history or have been in a war realize this fact. Debate the reasons or rightness of a war all day long and something may come of it but to debate the rules of engagement are a bit silly unless both sides have the same rules. If both sides agree to the rules than one can debate if one side or the other is following those rules or not.

WW II was an all out war. The Japanese raped Nanking and the Americans dropped two atomic bombs. No quarter was asked nor given after the rules of engagement became obvious. The winning side gets to call the losing side war criminals and hang them.

In the last year of WW II the American Navy unable to determine which Japanese ships were carrying POW's attacked them all and Killed 10,000 Allied prisoners of war, including more than twice as many Americans as have died in Iraq. The Japanese freighter Shinhyo Maru was attacked by an American submarine and the Japanese guards machine-gunned the Allied prisoners trying to abandon ship. 20 men escaped and were rescued by another Japanese ship and when it was discovered they were Americans they were executed.

A captured Japanese soldier's diary contained words to express his love for his family, the beauty of a sunset — then described how he participated in a massacre of Filipinos during which he clubbed a baby against a tree. Americans were shocked by the Japanese massacre of civilians in Manila but the Americans left Manila in rubble after their bombardment of that city.

With the assets deployed at U Tapao the Vietnam war could have been won in a couple of weeks. Might have started WWIII but Vietnam would have been over.

Currently everyone seems to know the real enemy is Pakistan but no one does anything about it. Rules of engagement again. Everyone seems to know who is financing the Taliban but no one does anything about it. Again rules of engagement. The Russians had their shot at Afghanistan as did the Brits neither without any success and they used far more draconian measures than drones.