Abhisit Says Varsities Fail Reform Test

[Rhys]

In the Tuesday Edition of the BKK post, PM Abhisit explains the reform situation with universities in Thailand with regard to outside assessment (ONESQA) thus quality of education issues. As expected many of the universities on the S list refute the critical assessment as a marker to make adjustments. One interesting quote comming from the Western Educated PM:

"Our problem lies not in budgeting or human resources, and educational effectiveness does not depend on quality or availabilty of materials but rather on the quality of teachers."

Well yipee ka yea... Hey Educational Dude, besides the BKK universities and other major provinces, look what they have to work with--the student learning behaviors had not changed. This sad and although well meaning statement lacks the insights of a teacher, not a politician. In addition to this the Dude has mentioned the one province one university proposal, yeah right bud...

While educational standards are important, the educational reforms have come slowly, but have these changes, suggestions, actions come as a direct result from the GHOST minister of education... Educational Dude put someone in who knows what they are doing.. enough with the political appointments, oye vay..

Educational Dude, ONESQA and western models don't work here... need the alternative modes...Yes, invest in teacher education, revamp the MOE, those PH.D Pretty high but deeper need to earn their keep.

Educational Dude, education must be particular, must be possible, must be practical (Kumaravadivelu, 2001).

[PlanetX]

blame foreigners - where is my new colored shirt

[Scott]

I doubt that foreigners can be held responsible for low standards at the University level. But without a good pool of high school applicants, it's hard to have a decent standard of university education.

[trogers]

But without a good pool of high school applicants, it's hard to have a decent standard of university education.

And how can a good pool of high school applicants be formed when the education policy is geared not to fail anyone even if he or she does not deserve a pass? Might as well use the mathematical formula - square root x 10 to grade the students... , making 25 out of 100 the passing grade.

[Scott]

The system of failing students who perform poorly has always been controversial. This is especially true of young learners, who may very well get a negative feel for education that taints their later experiences and hinders their learning even further. For some young ones, they are simply too immature to learn well and need to be held back. Western countries have gone through the 'social' promotion, so they stay with their class.

The idea of definitive passing or failing should increase with age and by the time students are in high school, life's little realities should start to apply. Much of the way the system in Thailand is designed, however, doesn't permit this. If you are in G. 10 you cannot repeat Math, for example, from G. 9. You must stay with your class. In most Western countries, if you fail a subject you repeat the subject--not the entire grade.

But we cannot lay the blame entirely on students. Students everywhere are roughly the same. They go to school because their parents send them to school. Teachers need to be qualified and have mastered the subjects they teach. Students need to be encouraged to think and to learn. Class size has to be manageable and the amount of time for breaks and activities managed so that children don't end up sitting for hours and hours of classroom lecture. Noise levels need to be kept reasonable as well.

Once the playing field is leveled, I think the country would find that they have plenty of students who could compete in a University setting that adheres to high academic standards.

[Rhys]

Scott,

Then in your opinion, the educational "authorities" need to establish what the criteria for class size...just one area for discussion.

In college, I recall Zoology class lecture with 500 student, and the appropriate lab classes. This in this format the large class size is acceptable.

Yet it appears with some General English Classes, due to economic factors, a class of 250-300, to a max of 400 students is a sad trend. Should I add their is only 1 teacher, and a westerner...Imagine the challenge.. however, in trying to meet the challege, POPBL project oriented problem base learning is the teaching method.. mixed results in adminstration,survival mode, unknown results in English learning.

It appears, at some universities, the reward for teaching an ultra large class it to be rewarded with more students...hmm.. certainly cost effective.. Sad trend.

[Scott]

There is a difference between high school and university in what is acceptable, just as there is a difference between Kindergarten, Grade School and High School.

It's not just the class size, although if you are talking about a language, it's very important, but also the student-teacher ratio.

I also had classes in university with hundreds of students for the main lecture. Twice a week we met with the Teaching Assistants in much smaller groups to go over the material.

Labs are a good point. Pretty hard to get 500 kids in a lab--unless it's a butchering plant!

[Rhys]

YES SCOTT...

The class in question was a general English class in a university..

[Scott]

There's English Conversation and then there's English grammar, literature etc. I certainly hope they weren't learning English Conversation.

I took some languages in University. Our classes had maybe 30 students--I don't recall, but they were not very large. We also were mandated to spend a certain amount of time in the language lab listening to tapes of the conversations from the book.

Of course, comparisons between then and now aren't really fair and none of us necessarily planned on using the language. We did have to speak to our professor in the language and we were graded a little harshly. I still can't really speak much from those classes, but I did reach a level of reading which was acceptable.

[Rhys]

There's English Conversation and then there's English grammar, literature etc. I certainly hope they weren't learning English Conversation.

I took some languages in University. Our classes had maybe 30 students--I don't recall, but they were not very large. We also were mandated to spend a certain amount of time in the language lab listening to tapes of the conversations from the book.

Of course, comparisons between then and now aren't really fair and none of us necessarily planned on using the language. We did have to speak to our professor in the language and we were graded a little harshly. I still can't really speak much from those classes, but I did reach a level of reading which was acceptable.

Well, let's just say.. A class of 400 or so, was.. reduced to Project Oriented Problem Based learning, that would be about 4-5 projects in a 13 week session, students at the en of the 4th project were required to give a Learning fair on their projects, thus students were required to provided in English, a poster, brochure, learing quiz, CD learning activity, and all required to use English.

In addition to combat the group dyamics work sharing, peer assessmentin cooperative learning was used, not so much as to assess peer work contribution but as an activator to contribute to the group task. While this can be effective, what English learning can really be assessed, the challenge of course, something is being learned from the Multi-disciplinary approach but what can be said about the effective and delivery of EFT.. A Large class of this size certainly has an effeot of learning outcomes.. yet the single teaching practioner has done what he can to create a learning experience.

Trade off in LOS.. but does it work? or is that even the approach..Does this become baby sitting in a unversity setting.