Eight People Killed In Grisly Bangkok Tollway Accident

[coma]

That puts it in a nutshell. The word "accident" does not absolve people from all responsibility for their actions.

EXACTLY.

I hate these sort of references when talking about stuff here in Thailand, however heres a bit of trivia for you.

In a number of countries &/or states of various countries a number of years ago Police Departments in those states set about changing the names of their 'specialist units' that investigated motor vehicle collisions. In alot of these places their investigation units were called things like, "Accident Investigation Unit, Accident Investigation Squad" & stuff like that. The trend became to rename to things such as, "Collision investigation, Crash Investigation Squad" etc.

Apparently one of the motivating reasons for doing so had something to do with what people perceived with the word, 'Accident'. The term, Accident seems to imply that the incident was nobodies fault. That can sometimes be the case BUT ITS VERY VERY RARE.

Correct me if I am wrong. I percieve the word 'Accident ' as being an incident that occured unitentionally. Therefore if a driver/operator of a plane, train or automobile does not delibrately crashed their vehicle, it would therefore be defined as an accident.

Collisions involving cars, don't just happen, theres normally a reason for it.

[neverdie]

I do agree with her simple statement that it was an accident, and the girl deserves some sympathy...

What would happen to a 16 year old in Australia??? Tried as an adult, probably not without intent... owner of the car held responsible, probably not... Juvenile Detention, maybe, but probably not without previous convictions... What if she was middle class? what if she was from a wealthy family? What if she was aboriginal... I can see this exact same situation being played out on the front page of The Daily Telegraph... Hang-Em-High camp Vs Bleeding Hearts, and no justice for anyone...

Cheers,

Daewoo

We will have to agree to disagree because claiming something is purely an 'Accident' is flawed in my opinion based on the very definition of the word. I am sorry I have seen too many lives shattered over the years to have much sympathy for people that kill others on the road through either stupidity or varying levels of neglect & or complete disregard for other human life.

Again, what would happen in anywhere but Thailand has nothing to do with this but I can tell you, ANYONE who is under the age of 18 in Australian and commits any Serious Indictable offence is put through the system as a child, not a Adult. That takes the argument absolutely no where. An adult can be charged and later convicted of Dangerous Driving at court and so can a child, with the only difference being the way in which a hearing takes place & few minor technicalities that go along with that. This same thing goes around daily in just about every country on the face of the earth.

Please understand that also in most places in the world there is a age limit for Criminal Liablility. In Australia that is 10 years of age. Here I believe its 7 years of age. That doesnt mean a person charged with an offence at such a tender age is 'Tried as an Adult' as you put it, but hell yes they can be tried, depending on the evidence against them. One of the primary things needed in cases like these is an understanding by the child that what he or she did was WRONG. Once that is established and a Prima Facie case is established in relation to certain offences then charges will follow & so will an appearance in a CHILDREN court.

I havent read anything on these pages that suggest anyone thinks that she should be tried as an Adult, she shouldnt, but just because someone is under the age of 18 doesnt mean they don't have a case to answer.

[Wiggy]

Rest in peace. Horrific accident also in Korat Saturday. Sympathy to the families. In God we trust.

?

Then why did god let it happen? I wouldn't trust someone who does this to innocent people. That's why atheism rules.

[eateer]

Rest in peace. Horrific accident also in Korat Saturday. Sympathy to the families. In God we trust.

?

Then why did god let it happen? I wouldn't trust someone who does this to innocent people. That's why atheism rules.

I am still amazed how people can still say nonsense like that. "Horrific accident, 8 innocent lives lost, in god we trust" What crack are you smoking?? "God" just snuffed out 8 lives to amuse himself, if your looking for help i would start looking elsewhere.

[BanTamo]

i very much appreciate the careful moderation of this particular thread.

[Chunky1]

How many hundreds of people do you guys predict will die over the Jan 1st holiday?

[rixalex]

I havent read anything on these pages that suggest anyone thinks that she should be tried as an Adult, she shouldnt, but just because someone is under the age of 18 doesnt mean they don't have a case to answer.

EXACTLY.

[Chunky1]

If this incident serves one purpose, it should be to remind all of us how dangerous it is to travel in steel boxes at 120 km/h. If safety and survival is important to you, avoid travel during nighttime hours, purchase as safe a vehicle as possible, etc. Never ride on a motorcycle or any other form public transportation in Thailand.

[hyperdimension]

If safety and survival is important to you, avoid travel during nighttime hours, purchase as safe a vehicle as possible, etc. Never ride on a motorcycle or any other form public transportation in Thailand.

... and drive under the speed limit. How fast were the van and car driving? It seems like the car was in an unnecessarily big rush enough to put the van into a spin.

Though I don't agree with your blanket statement about "any other form public transportation in Thailand". I feel the safest mode of transport within the city are the large public buses, as long as they don't leave the doors open whilst moving and give enough time for passengers to get on and off, and you remember to look left before getting off (in case there are motorcycles or other cars - often the ticket collector reminds people to look left.

Edited December 30, 2010 by hyperdimension

[ricklev]

I've taken that van route many times to and from Rangsit campus. The vans are fairly new. I imagine they are licensed and insured. Thammasat provides a staging area for them on campus. There is a route to Victory Monument and to Morchit.

I guess about 20 percent of the drivers are lunatics that take completely unreasonable high speed risks. This is the transportation system sanctioned by a major government universtiy for their best and brightest.

I don't know whose fault this particular accident was. I;m sure though that there will eventually be another horrific accident and more Thammasat students and faculty will die.

Anybody with any sense or reason can see the need for speed governors on the vans. I guess nobody at Thammasat in a position of power cares enough to make an issue of it.

[Heng]

Driving yourself is a safety plus. At least you control part of the outcome in that situation (you know how rested you are, whether your mind is on something else, whether you're drunk, have had too much coffee, etc.).

[Prapoj]

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=25674&id=139511502773384#!/album.php?aid=25247&id=139511502773384 very disturbing picture of the accident. Please do not click if you are under 18.

[steffi]

Evident show driving without a license.

quote name='SamritT' timestamp='1293683878' post='4117957']

We all have to see the evident. Don't speculate. Evident show NO impact between civic & van. Evident show red paint of civic. Evident show van was modified with NGV tank. Evident show seat beast bundle up. Evident show that van door did not slide open. Who want to dispute the evident with me. I am happy to point you to published evident, reported by media, police, expert, etc.

[tombkk]

If this incident serves one purpose, it should be to remind all of us how dangerous it is to travel in steel boxes at 120 km/h. If safety and survival is important to you, avoid travel during nighttime hours, purchase as safe a vehicle as possible, etc. Never ride on a motorcycle or any other form public transportation in Thailand.

Of course that's nonsense. Germany's autobahn is famous for having no speed limit for large stretches, and yet it is one of the safest road systems in the world.

How come? - Because of driver education and responsible driving. Education is the issue (and this was mentioned earlier in this thread), and a speed of 120 km/h is not very high on the Tollway: It's a good road! You could easily drive 150 km/h if the law allowed it and if you could be confident that the other drivers behaved responsibly.

Well, neither of these two "if's" apply: The speed limit exists in Thailand because drivers are not well-educated and not well-trained.

Thailand has a high number of accidents per 1,000 drivers, I forgot the number but can find out if necessary. Most accidents in Thailand are caused by 'human error', which is preventable if drivers are trained properly and follow what they've learned.

Side remark: Of course, this requires drivers to be old enough to take the test and get a driver's licence. Anybody involved as a driver in an accident that caused deaths is guilty by default. This is very clear in German law. However, the lawyers will discuss how many percent of guilt that driver has. I am not a lawyer and will therefore not go further into details, but it gives you an idea how this accident would be handled in other countries.

[tombkk]

From what I was told based on this mornings TV Talk Show, she admitted that she was speeding because she was in a rush to return the car to her friend. She sped up on the right most lane and as she approched the van she indicated her high beams. The van moved to the middle lane, she then sped up again, but the van returned back to the right lane, it was too late for her to brake in time. -- all this based on the TV Talk Show this morning, based on her parents conversation with the teen. The parents also indicated that they will face responsiblity, but currently because of the "mob mentality" they have had to move to 3 different hospitals. The parents indicated that they have received "bad" calls from people, threatening, etc.... They are very saddened by this incident and haven't had the chance to properly "speak in public" because people are just "out" for them. All this was translated to me in a short period of time... there are some discrepencies. There is a "mob rule" going... online and offline... I think people should just take a deep breath and take a look around before jumping to conclusions. There are lots of under-aged drivers driving around here.. in cars and motorcycles... all ready to be the next headline.

. . . . I told you before. It was an ACCIDENT. She did not want to be involved in the accident, just like you or me. If she knew that the van is to drive recklessly (quote... but the van returned back to the right lane...), she (or you or I) would not try to drive pass the van. Please remember, this could also happen to you or I. Please have mercy on the poor child.

I haven't yet heard of anybody who wanted to be involved in an accident, so you may be trying to be funny. I find this rather sad, though.

But then, if all really happened as you say, she had no driver's licence and caused an accident which killed nine (update from TV3) people.

Kindly explain why anybody should have mercy, I'm willing to listen. My question is: Why did a 16yo drive a car? 9 people got killed!

And if we can believe the latest rumour: Why is she abroad? Who would allow her to leave the country while this accident is still under investigation? (But then again, always thinking positive, maybe the rumour is untrue and she hasn't left the country but is under police supervision, which is what the circumstances demand.)

[tombkk]

Almost as time consuming as getting your opinion on these two HYPOTHETICAL questions! No offense intended either.

I am not baiting or trolling and my questions are not related directly to this accident. I was just wondering how the charges would be placed in our home countries in the event of a similar accident where the driver has been found guilty of causing death by reckless driving. I accept that intent cannot be a factor but how hard can a prosecutor go after a drivers other actions as 'aggravating' the offence and thus changing things from manslaughter to homicide?

I'm have no idea what went on up on that road. Ive seen a dodgy few seonds of video clip & then read newspaper reports (CAN BE HIGHLY UNRELAIBLE FOR FACTS) and whats being said on Television, the forum etc etc. I am definately not offering comment on this particular collision but trying to answer your question.

Now, that I understand what you are trying to ask regarding laws in 'other' countries, again, I find it hard to comment WITHOUT specifically referring to one individual law or the other. Im NOT familiar with the exact offences relating to these sort of charges in the USA. Again, in the states of Australia varying laws exist.

As I am aware of a few different laws in various states, perhaps the best example I could give you might go like this:-

In the situation there has been an Collision where someone was killed as a result of that collision. The Police investigation determins that the driver of the offending vehicle was driving at 5km/h & failed to stop and bumped into a motorcyclist at an intersection, the motorcyclist fell over breaks his neck and dies. Police would most likely then charge that driver, if no other circumstances existed with an offence under the Traffic Act, lets use NSW Australia as an example. The charge might be, "Negligent Driving Occassioning Death".

THEN, if circumstances were different and the driver responsible had been driving down the road, swerving accross to the incorrect side of the road, speeding, running red lights, disobeying road rules and then crashes into another motorist and they die as a result, then Police (Again using NSW) may then charge with Offences under the Crimes Act, Offences such as Dangerous Driving Occassioning Death. Normally these charges would also be backed up with Traffic Act charges, but thats just a technical backup charge and it would be filed at court if the first offence was proven.

To THEN GET MORE EXTREME, if the offending driver was say, driving with a blood alcohol content of more than 0.150 grammes of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood AND/OR travelling in excess of 45km/h over the speed limit AND/OR at the time of the collision was in the process of trying to avoid being apprehended by the Police, then the charged would go up to an even higher criminal charge of 'Aggravated Dangerous Driving Occassioning Death".

From there, depending on how 'extreme' the drivers behaviour actually was, the primary offences might become a straight up, 'Manslaughter' charge under the Crimes Act. Of course, as stated before, if there was 'INTENT to kill someone, then everything charge wise changes again.

NOW, in the USA, they have various 'other' names for charges that relate to vehicular homicide & without studying each of them carefully, I really couldnt comment.

Here in Thailand, I have only read the Land Traffic Act of 1979 & I'm really not sure what other offences or charges that could be preferred in situations such as what I have described above.

I understand from Channel 3 that:

1. Driving without a licence carries a fine of THB 1,000.

2. Unvoluntary vehicular manslaughter (my translation) carries a minimum sentence of four years in prison and/or a fine of THB 20,000.

I think we can safely assume that she is guilty of point 1, but the court will have to decide on point 2.

[roamer]

Almost as time consuming as getting your opinion on these two HYPOTHETICAL questions! No offense intended either.

I am not baiting or trolling and my questions are not related directly to this accident. I was just wondering how the charges would be placed in our home countries in the event of a similar accident where the driver has been found guilty of causing death by reckless driving. I accept that intent cannot be a factor but how hard can a prosecutor go after a drivers other actions as 'aggravating' the offence and thus changing things from manslaughter to homicide?

I'm have no idea what went on up on that road. Ive seen a dodgy few seonds of video clip & then read newspaper reports (CAN BE HIGHLY UNRELAIBLE FOR FACTS) and whats being said on Television, the forum etc etc. I am definately not offering comment on this particular collision but trying to answer your question.

Now, that I understand what you are trying to ask regarding laws in 'other' countries, again, I find it hard to comment WITHOUT specifically referring to one individual law or the other. Im NOT familiar with the exact offences relating to these sort of charges in the USA. Again, in the states of Australia varying laws exist.

As I am aware of a few different laws in various states, perhaps the best example I could give you might go like this:-

In the situation there has been an Collision where someone was killed as a result of that collision. The Police investigation determins that the driver of the offending vehicle was driving at 5km/h & failed to stop and bumped into a motorcyclist at an intersection, the motorcyclist fell over breaks his neck and dies. Police would most likely then charge that driver, if no other circumstances existed with an offence under the Traffic Act, lets use NSW Australia as an example. The charge might be, "Negligent Driving Occassioning Death".

THEN, if circumstances were different and the driver responsible had been driving down the road, swerving accross to the incorrect side of the road, speeding, running red lights, disobeying road rules and then crashes into another motorist and they die as a result, then Police (Again using NSW) may then charge with Offences under the Crimes Act, Offences such as Dangerous Driving Occassioning Death. Normally these charges would also be backed up with Traffic Act charges, but thats just a technical backup charge and it would be filed at court if the first offence was proven.

To THEN GET MORE EXTREME, if the offending driver was say, driving with a blood alcohol content of more than 0.150 grammes of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood AND/OR travelling in excess of 45km/h over the speed limit AND/OR at the time of the collision was in the process of trying to avoid being apprehended by the Police, then the charged would go up to an even higher criminal charge of 'Aggravated Dangerous Driving Occassioning Death".

From there, depending on how 'extreme' the drivers behaviour actually was, the primary offences might become a straight up, 'Manslaughter' charge under the Crimes Act. Of course, as stated before, if there was 'INTENT to kill someone, then everything charge wise changes again.

NOW, in the USA, they have various 'other' names for charges that relate to vehicular homicide & without studying each of them carefully, I really couldnt comment.

Here in Thailand, I have only read the Land Traffic Act of 1979 & I'm really not sure what other offences or charges that could be preferred in situations such as what I have described above.

I understand from Channel 3 that:

1. Driving without a licence carries a fine of THB 1,000.

2. Unvoluntary vehicular manslaughter (my translation) carries a minimum sentence of four years in prison and/or a fine of THB 20,000.

I think we can safely assume that she is guilty of point 1, but the court will have to decide on point 2.

I think we can safely assume that your translation in point 2 is as shaky as the rest of your post. Pile of crap.

[brahmburgers]

She was reckless, she was driving illegally, she was driving too fast, her actions after the accident have been reprehensible, she did tweet laughing.....

Reckless, driving too fast - that's more common in Thailand than taking a pee. Just in my one mid-sized town of Chiang Rai, at least 10,000 people drive through red lights EVERY HOUR between 8 am and 10 pm. The number for Bangkok is many times higher. And I've never heard of anyone ever being pulled over and arrested for dangerous driving in Chiang Rai - probably a similar statistic for the entire country.

The accident deaths were tragic, yes, but is it more tragic than the other 30+ deaths per day on Thai highways?

We don't really know for sure what the girl was doing before of after the accident. If she was seen laughing (which I very much doubt) ...it could have been the Thai propensity for smiling or even chuckling in the face of calamity. Don't be too quick to judge.

[Just1Voice]

Three Things.

First, while I claim no "expertise" on the laws of other countries, or even other states in the U.S., I a very well versed in the laws of my home state (Indiana), and know exactly how things would go, and without going into details, I'll just say that her and her family would be facing a ton of legal charges and problems.

Second, while it's obvious she's guilty of driving without a license, and I think that while most of us also feel she is guilty of causing the accident and the resulting deaths, we have no choice but to let the authorities handle that one. I think that due to the public's sense of "outrage" over this incident, things might not go well for the girl and her family.

Third, last night I had to attend a party with my wife and New York Life Insurance in Chiang Mai. On the way, while taking the highway into town the traffic began to slow down and there was a police truck with red lights and siren going, trying to get out of a side soi, but no one even bothered to stop and let them. About 300 meters up we saw why the slow down. A fairly new Prerunner was sitting sideways in the road, as if it had been exiting the soi to the right. There was one body beneath the truck and another laying beside it, along with a smashed up motorbike. Neither victim was wearing a helmet, and both appeared to have serious head injuries. Just a typical day in the LOS.

[Chunky1]

If this incident serves one purpose, it should be to remind all of us how dangerous it is to travel in steel boxes at 120 km/h. If safety and survival is important to you, avoid travel during nighttime hours, purchase as safe a vehicle as possible, etc. Never ride on a motorcycle or any other form public transportation in Thailand.

Of course that's nonsense. Germany's autobahn is famous for having no speed limit for large stretches, and yet it is one of the safest road systems in the world.

How come? - Because of driver education and responsible driving. Education is the issue (and this was mentioned earlier in this thread), and a speed of 120 km/h is not very high on the Tollway: It's a good road! You could easily drive 150 km/h if the law allowed it and if you could be confident that the other drivers behaved responsibly.

Well, neither of these two "if's" apply: The speed limit exists in Thailand because drivers are not well-educated and not well-trained.

Thailand has a high number of accidents per 1,000 drivers, I forgot the number but can find out if necessary. Most accidents in Thailand are caused by 'human error', which is preventable if drivers are trained properly and follow what they've learned.

So what you are saying is that driving in steel boxes at 120+km/h isn't safe?

[tropo]

If this incident serves one purpose, it should be to remind all of us how dangerous it is to travel in steel boxes at 120 km/h. If safety and survival is important to you, avoid travel during nighttime hours, purchase as safe a vehicle as possible, etc. Never ride on a motorcycle or any other form public transportation in Thailand.

Of course that's nonsense. Germany's autobahn is famous for having no speed limit for large stretches, and yet it is one of the safest road systems in the world.

How come? - Because of driver education and responsible driving. Education is the issue (and this was mentioned earlier in this thread), and a speed of 120 km/h is not very high on the Tollway: It's a good road! You could easily drive 150 km/h if the law allowed it and if you could be confident that the other drivers behaved responsibly.

Well, neither of these two "if's" apply: The speed limit exists in Thailand because drivers are not well-educated and not well-trained.

Thailand has a high number of accidents per 1,000 drivers, I forgot the number but can find out if necessary. Most accidents in Thailand are caused by 'human error', which is preventable if drivers are trained properly and follow what they've learned.

So what you are saying is that driving in steel boxes at 120+km/h isn't safe?

I think he was saying that only uneducated countries have speed limits.

[OldeBellPedr]

Eight Killed in Van Tragedy

Eight people were killed and seven were left seriously injured in a car accident on an elevated highway in Bangkok yesterday.

On Monday night, a white Honda Civic slammed into the back of a passenger van on the Don Muang Tollway, killing eight people and injuring six.

An initial investigation suggests that after the collision, the van's doors popped open, and the passengers were flung from the five meter high tollway on to a pedestrian bridge and canal below.

Police said the driver of the car, an 18 year old woman, was among those injured.

They added that they are working to identify the bodies of the victims who perished in the crash.

The site of the crash was between Kasetsart University and the Office of Atoms for Peace.

-- Tan Network 2010-12-28

OK - So Here's the story from the Thai language websites

Rather than ranting about what Thais are, what Thai minibus drivers are and the usual garbage that comes from assumptions I thought I'd check out the news on the Thai language news websites - The most popular web forum in Thailand (again a Thai language website) covers the story very well.

The first reports that came from the accident reported that the Honda Civic caused the accident and that there were two people in the Honda - Miss A and Miss B.

The first reports where that Miss A was driving the Honda at the time of the accident.

The later reports stated that no - Miss B was driving the Honda and also included suggestions that the driver of the Minivan was at fault.

When we here that Miss A is 16 years old (not legally allowed to drive a vehicle) and that both Miss A and Miss B are sisters with a very well connected family name we begin to see that it just would not do for these young ladies to be accused, let alone found guilty of road killing.

Meanwhile those accusing the passengers of the Minivan of the heinous crime of being ill educated might like to retract their statement on learning the were for the most part highly educated (a number graduates of overseas universities).

Look for the driver of the minivan being blamed and Miss A/B Na-an old capital of Thailand being let off the hook and easing their consciences with a few days at the local temple..... though they may not stay over night... the poor dears.

Actually the girl who was driving was 16 years old!!!!!!!

Her name is a very well to do name (old capital of Thailand, begins with A)(put the word Na before it)

That's the story doing the rounds in Chiang Mai tonight: the driver was a SIXTEEN year old girl and as stated above, the family name is very well connected with a 'na' in front of the surname and the name of an old Thai capital following it. I wonder if the family name will have any influence on the course of the police investigation. I'm sure it won't! Not in Mr Abhisit's egalitarian Thailand.

[rixalex]

That's the story doing the rounds in Chiang Mai tonight: the driver was a SIXTEEN year old girl and as stated above, the family name is very well connected with a 'na' in front of the surname and the name of an old Thai capital following it. I wonder if the family name will have any influence on the course of the police investigation. I'm sure it won't! Not in Mr Abhisit's egalitarian Thailand.

Did you just come to after a very long sleep? This is the story that has been doing the rounds in Thailand for the last three days, right since the incident occurred.

[canuckamuck]

"Eight People Killed In Grisly Bangkok Tollway Accident"

In other news: Eight grizzlys were killed in a people forest meadow accident

[random]

She was reckless, she was driving illegally, she was driving too fast, her actions after the accident have been reprehensible, she did tweet laughing.....

Reckless, driving too fast - that's more common in Thailand than taking a pee. Just in my one mid-sized town of Chiang Rai, at least 10,000 people drive through red lights EVERY HOUR between 8 am and 10 pm. The number for Bangkok is many times higher. And I've never heard of anyone ever being pulled over and arrested for dangerous driving in Chiang Rai - probably a similar statistic for the entire country.

The accident deaths were tragic, yes, but is it more tragic than the other 30+ deaths per day on Thai highways?

We don't really know for sure what the girl was doing before of after the accident. If she was seen laughing (which I very much doubt) ...it could have been the Thai propensity for smiling or even chuckling in the face of calamity. Don't be too quick to judge.

and don't be too quick to edit my post, if you read it in full I clearly satyshe tweeted laughing, as in her tweet included '555', at no point did I say she was physically laughing.

[tombkk]

Of course that's nonsense. Germany's autobahn is famous for having no speed limit for large stretches, and yet it is one of the safest road systems in the world.

How come? - Because of driver education and responsible driving. Education is the issue (and this was mentioned earlier in this thread), and a speed of 120 km/h is not very high on the Tollway: It's a good road! You could easily drive 150 km/h if the law allowed it and if you could be confident that the other drivers behaved responsibly.

Well, neither of these two "if's" apply: The speed limit exists in Thailand because drivers are not well-educated and not well-trained.

Thailand has a high number of accidents per 1,000 drivers, I forgot the number but can find out if necessary. Most accidents in Thailand are caused by 'human error', which is preventable if drivers are trained properly and follow what they've learned.

So what you are saying is that driving in steel boxes at 120+km/h isn't safe?

I think he was saying that only uneducated countries have speed limits.

Au contraire. I am saying that higher speeds require better driver education.

Just recently I came back from Hanoi. I don't know about driver education over there, but they certainly consider 30 km/h fast, so they don't exceed that speed limit (didn't see any signs though) even though the road was free. Also people in Cambodia tend to drive slower than in Thailand. It would be worth an academic study whether road speed increases with development, but I do wager that increased road speed requires increased driver education in order to keep the number of fatal accidents low.

I hope my message above is clearer now.

[tombkk]

I understand from Channel 3 that:

1. Driving without a licence carries a fine of THB 1,000.

2. Unvoluntary vehicular manslaughter (my translation) carries a minimum sentence of four years in prison and/or a fine of THB 20,000.

I think we can safely assume that she is guilty of point 1, but the court will have to decide on point 2.

I think we can safely assume that your translation in point 2 is as shaky as the rest of your post. Pile of crap.

Thank you for your valuable contribution to this thread. In fact, what I read in the press is about the maximum penalty but what I heard on TV3 was about the minimum penalty - all applies only if found guilty. I am certainly looking forward to your correction on this, as you seem to have better insight into Thai law than me. Sure enough, I am only saying what I understand from the press.

I for one, am not a lawyer and will not decide whether she or the minivan driver caused the accident. In fact, that was not even part of my posting.

[LivinLOS]

Thank you for your valuable contribution to this thread. In fact, what I read in the press is about the maximum penalty but what I heard on TV3 was about the minimum penalty - all applies only if found guilty. I am certainly looking forward to your correction on this, as you seem to have better insight into Thai law than me. Sure enough, I am only saying what I understand from the press.

Drunk Thai guy killed my friends 15 year old daughter..

He didnt get 4 years. So suspect your wrong on mimimum.

[millwall_fan]

That's the story doing the rounds in Chiang Mai tonight: the driver was a SIXTEEN year old girl and as stated above, the family name is very well connected with a 'na' in front of the surname and the name of an old Thai capital following it. I wonder if the family name will have any influence on the course of the police investigation. I'm sure it won't! Not in Mr Abhisit's egalitarian Thailand.

Did you just come to after a very long sleep? This is the story that has been doing the rounds in Thailand for the last three days, right since the incident occurred.

No, I have just been very busy. some of us work hard over the New Year period, and don't have the time to spend all day cradling our fingers around a keyboard as you evidently have the time to do.

Sorry if you feel that unless ones views are stated within 20 minutes of an incident happening they are invalid!

[rixalex]

That's the story doing the rounds in Chiang Mai tonight: the driver was a SIXTEEN year old girl and as stated above, the family name is very well connected with a 'na' in front of the surname and the name of an old Thai capital following it. I wonder if the family name will have any influence on the course of the police investigation. I'm sure it won't! Not in Mr Abhisit's egalitarian Thailand.

Did you just come to after a very long sleep? This is the story that has been doing the rounds in Thailand for the last three days, right since the incident occurred.

No, I have just been very busy. some of us work hard over the New Year period, and don't have the time to spend all day cradling our fingers around a keyboard as you evidently have the time to do.

Sorry if you feel that unless ones views are stated within 20 minutes of an incident happening they are invalid!

Why millwall fan are you speaking on behalf of oldebellpedr?

As to your points, whoever you are, i too have been working a lot and by no means have spent "all day cradling my fingers around a keyboard ". What is your evidence for that accusation? That i am aware of just about the biggest story in the last week in Thailand, and didn't come onto a three day old thread presenting three day old nationwide news as having just broken in my town?