Getting Married - Parents Expecting A Car?

[Khun Larry]

900,000 is just not a round number

Shoot for an even lan in your negotiations.

[Tokker]

Zint, i am just curious but can you elaborate a little bit on "investing the money in your career"? Are planning to start up a business or something or does this simply mean that you just want to buy the D-Max for yourself because it looks good while applying for a job somewhere...

[Thetyim]

Why are you paying for the wedding party ?

Sorry, mate you are being strung along here .

[mrbojangles]

her parents are expecting a 900,000 baht car as the "wedding gift" to them.

OMG, Zint, what sort of a pickle have you got yourself into.

Firstly, the subject of "sin sod" has come up many times and you will get various views, of "stuff em" right the way through to "pay em, you cheap charlie". Although i can't see many people saying the cheap charlie one on this topic. Whatever peoples views are, about sin sod (wether it should be paid or not) and as to how much, it's quite irrelevant here. You find yourself in a "face saving" predicament, as opposed to "how much for the sin sod" predicament.

If you truly love this girl and want to marry her and don't want her to lose face with her parents and her parents not lose face to the village etc. You need to find a solution that best fits for all. For instance, they don't lose face and you don't lose 900k baht.

My view of sin sod is about "showing off" wealth etc. Now this doesn't necessarily mean the parents keeping that wealth, as in many cases, once it has been "shown" it's given back to the "happy couple". Therefore, is there any way you could reason with them, that you will show a cheque, or cash to that value on the day of the wedding but they would then have to give it back to you. However, you will try to help them purchase a car in the future. They could then gloat to all the villagers about the money and save face. A little later before people start to ask "where is the car" her parents could make up a story about how they decided to help you and your wife buy your first house instead of wasting the money on a car, gaining even more face for doing such a kind thing etc. etc.

Just a suggestion, you don't have to agree with this Zint, i'm just trying to offer some alternative thinking to your issue.

All the best anyway.

MrBoJ

[INTJ]

Zint, i am just curious but can you elaborate a little bit on "investing the money in your career"? Are planning to start up a business or something or does this simply mean that you just want to buy the D-Max for yourself because it looks good while applying for a job somewhere...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

INTJ

.

[zint]

i greatly appreciate everyone's input and advice, thank you so much for that. i know some about thai customs, etc. but certainly not everything. i know that 900k is too much and 5k may not be enough, but thats about as much as i know on that. for the wedding party, i thought that its up to the couple to pay for it and then get (at least part of) the money back through gifts from the invited guests. i may be wrong here, i dont know. i have my own business that i'm currently expanding so i'd rather invest the money there than in the car, obviously.

[britmaveric]

Missing the major point - sinsod is supposed to be returned to you. So why the &lt;deleted&gt; should you buy the parents a truck? Perhaps a gentle reminder on what sinsod is about - however that being said I tell them to stuff it. If you cant afford it why put yourself in the hole? (sometimes certain mentalities drive me nuts) Face or no face - her parents have the problem not you.

Edited August 24, 2005 by britmaveric

[MikeRay]

not right now, we can talk about it in the future".

I suppose from this sentence that you never meant to buy a car for them .

You have to learn to say clearly "NO", everything like talking about something in future won´t get you out of a situation.

She surely promised her dad the car now and now will try to get it from you.

She knows that you have the money and now she´ll try to persuade you to spend on a car.Might be college educated but doesn´t seem to think about future, Thai-style,there will be some money again in future that you can spend for your plans

[Curt]

i actually have the money to buy them the pickup truck for 900k baht if i wanted to, but the issues is i'd rather invest it in my career at this point

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i've heard from others in the village that he's (her dad) already talked about getting a car - so i'm worried about them losing face as well, though i also understand its his problem for telling everybody.

If you and your wife are truly willing to write off her family, cut your best deal and get out of town.

Otherwise, what's more important, your career or your marriage?

This question usually comes up later in the marraige.

Dodged that bullet!!!!

Edited August 24, 2005 by Curt

[Jockstar]

Politely tell them to... Fukc right off.

[cloudtiger]

Well, Zint, sounds like you're in trouble now. You lose if you do, and you lose if you don't.

There's another option, but you'll have to play it very carefully.

Say, you throw a fit about the car, let her know how it's impossible for you to buy it now as your second cousin back at home had just gotten trampled by a farrang buffalo and needed hospital money asap. So naturally, the 900k bhat had just go bye-bye back to farrangland since you couldn't possibly let him die, besides it would be very bad karma for the marriage as well as for daddy's pickup.

Now, let her take the story to daddy and let them mull over that for awhile.

If that doesn't fix your problem, then you tell her that your cousin woke up from his comma and you were able to tell him your situation. Out of pure selfless compassion, he volunteered to go without the kidney transplant and won't buy the fake leg to replace his amputated leg, just so that you can have 100k bhat for a present for her daddy.

Now, tell her that you will go with daddy to the pickup dealership and he can buy any pickup with your 100kbhat gift (curtesy of your crippled cousin) providing he pays for the monthly payments. The pickup will be in his name so if he doesn't pay, the repo man will take it away from him--in other words, not your problem.

This way you save 800K for your career or whatever and he saves his face

But too bad about the cousin ...

Cheers, mate.

[Davey]

There seems to be more than this than meets the eye. So fire at her one big simple question

"How much money, IN TOTAL, does the family owe?"

Yes you will not get the true answer, an approximation maybe,  but ask mummy and daddy as well, I'll bet you will be suprised. Me thinks they are dire straits, and the 900,000 baht is to pay off debts.

Remember, this will not be the last request for money, it is the first, stand up to them, or you will be just seem as a lovely ATM. AFTER ALL, SHE STUDIED BASICALLY FOR FREE DIDN'T SHE?

Think about it.

Sorry it wasn't supposed to be cynical.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mowlem may have a point here ...You said her parents initially paid for her to attend university although they are "average/poor". Perhaps they took a loan to pay for the cost of her education (sending your daughter to university is not cheap). I think Britmaveric said that sin sod is supposed to be returned, however returning a car would seem a little absurd (even by Thai standards), maybe that is why they insist on something like that.

On a slightly more logical note... I would agree with everyone else on here, 900,000 baht is far to much, that's like 12 grand?

I think this won't be the only request or demand either, providing you do pay for their car. Perhaps something can be negotiated, good luck

Edited August 24, 2005 by Davey

[womble]

her parents are expecting a 900,000 baht car as the "wedding gift" to them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OMG, Zint, what sort of a pickle have you got yourself into.

Firstly, the subject of "sin sod" has come up many times and you will get various views, of "stuff em" right the way through to "pay em, you cheap charlie". Although i can't see many people saying the cheap charlie one on this topic. Whatever peoples views are, about sin sod (wether it should be paid or not) and as to how much, it's quite irrelevant here. You find yourself in a "face saving" predicament, as opposed to "how much for the sin sod" predicament.

If you truly love this girl and want to marry her and don't want her to lose face with her parents and her parents not lose face to the village etc. You need to find a solution that best fits for all. For instance, they don't lose face and you don't lose 900k baht.

My view of sin sod is about "showing off" wealth etc. Now this doesn't necessarily mean the parents keeping that wealth, as in many cases, once it has been "shown" it's given back to the "happy couple". Therefore, is there any way you could reason with them, that you will show a cheque, or cash to that value on the day of the wedding but they would then have to give it back to you. However, you will try to help them purchase a car in the future. They could then gloat to all the villagers about the money and save face. A little later before people start to ask "where is the car" her parents could make up a story about how they decided to help you and your wife buy your first house instead of wasting the money on a car, gaining even more face for doing such a kind thing etc. etc.

Just a suggestion, you don't have to agree with this Zint, i'm just trying to offer some alternative thinking to your issue.

All the best anyway.

MrBoJ

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think this is excellant advice. I would say the correct dowry for your girl would be around the 200-300k mark. 900k is too much.

You do have a face saving issue though, and if you really love each other you can settle this. You should offer 999,999 baht at the wedding, Cash.

Before had though you should make it clear that you would like 700-800k returned, the rest can go as a contribution to the car.

The excuse above about the family saving the money instead of buying the car, is a good one. The money has been shown, you have proved yourself, if the family don't agree to this, they are greedy. Showing a cool 1m will gain everyone a lot of face, and that is a great excuse for them, there are many others.

[zint]

her parents are expecting a 900,000 baht car as the "wedding gift" to them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OMG, Zint, what sort of a pickle have you got yourself into.

Firstly, the subject of "sin sod" has come up many times and you will get various views, of "stuff em" right the way through to "pay em, you cheap charlie". Although i can't see many people saying the cheap charlie one on this topic. Whatever peoples views are, about sin sod (wether it should be paid or not) and as to how much, it's quite irrelevant here. You find yourself in a "face saving" predicament, as opposed to "how much for the sin sod" predicament.

If you truly love this girl and want to marry her and don't want her to lose face with her parents and her parents not lose face to the village etc. You need to find a solution that best fits for all. For instance, they don't lose face and you don't lose 900k baht.

My view of sin sod is about "showing off" wealth etc. Now this doesn't necessarily mean the parents keeping that wealth, as in many cases, once it has been "shown" it's given back to the "happy couple". Therefore, is there any way you could reason with them, that you will show a cheque, or cash to that value on the day of the wedding but they would then have to give it back to you. However, you will try to help them purchase a car in the future. They could then gloat to all the villagers about the money and save face. A little later before people start to ask "where is the car" her parents could make up a story about how they decided to help you and your wife buy your first house instead of wasting the money on a car, gaining even more face for doing such a kind thing etc. etc.

Just a suggestion, you don't have to agree with this Zint, i'm just trying to offer some alternative thinking to your issue.

All the best anyway.

MrBoJ

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think this is excellant advice. I would say the correct dowry for your girl would be around the 200-300k mark. 900k is too much.

You do have a face saving issue though, and if you really love each other you can settle this. You should offer 999,999 baht at the wedding, Cash.

Before had though you should make it clear that you would like 700-800k returned, the rest can go as a contribution to the car.

The excuse above about the family saving the money instead of buying the car, is a good one. The money has been shown, you have proved yourself, if the family don't agree to this, they are greedy. Showing a cool 1m will gain everyone a lot of face, and that is a great excuse for them, there are many others.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

that sounds good. what about the party? are the parents responsible or..?

[uncle paul]

id tell her you were thinking of getting a girl with a good and honest family that understood the real traditions of thailand

[Nam Kao]

OP YOur getting robbed, fleeced, taken to the cleaners

And this will only be the beginning

It'll never stop

So many calves on the way to the slaughterhouse, I cringe coming to TV

Edited August 24, 2005 by Nam Kao

[britmaveric]

that sounds good. what about the party? are the parents responsible or..?

Nope you will be paying for the party too!!!

[Nam Kao]

Unbelievable gullible people

[womble]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

that sounds good. what about the party? are the parents responsible or..?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Top end Dowry for an educated girl from a not so well off family would be 300k Probobally more like 150k for a Thai.

Pay 100k for the party, then expect all but 200k back. That way you have spent 300k, which is more than generous, and any decent Thai family of their means they would thrilled with a 300k Dowry.

The only problem is the face issue which must be solved, a simple no about the car and dowry will wreck you marriage, her parents and her will never get over the loss of face. You will also loose massive face and respect from her, her family and the village.

Agree with the family to show the 999,999, you pay for the wedding, they give you back 700k. They get to keep 200k to put towards a car. To be honest most decent familys would eigher give the money back, or hold onto it for when you have a child or for when someone in the family is ill.

When you chat with them say to them that you cannot pay 900k, but will pay 300k in total.

Also say that you would prefer the money was saved in their bank account for something more sensible than a car. Say if you pay 900k you won't be able to provide for your future family as well as you would like to. Explain that they will be their furture grandchildren, and surely they are more important than a shiny new car.

Obviously don't lecture them, just make it clear how you feel, what you can afford and make sure you have a good plan for them to save face. Don't tell them how to do it, sow seeds in their head, present it in a way that they suggest it, or at least agree to it without being forced to.

Good Luck.

[Nam Kao]

I asked my Thai brother inlaw if he would buy a 900K car for sin sod...

He is still laughing...

[jrincon17]

I have to pass on some advice offered to me not so long ago, it goes something like this.......

tell them to get &lt;deleted&gt;*^%)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If she loves you she will talk with her parents . The parents will just trash the car or it will stolen and they will suddenly have money .

[OxfordWill]

Just asked my Thai friend if he had heard of a 900k car for parents being used as sinsod...asked me how that is supposed to help the wife, and then asked me why I have such stupid friends.

No offence.

[womble]

I have heard of cars being apart of dowry's, but only in very hi so, often Thai Chineese weddings.

I may be wrong, but the well publicised case a couple of years back with the 25m dowry may have included a car.

[maikee]

zint,

You say you have the money, but then you say you would have to put your building your career for the future on hold. That tells me that you do not have the money to buy a truck for her family. I understand why you say that though.

You screwed up by not giving a definitive NO (accompanied by a rational reason why). You left somewhat of an open door and really... there is no telling how what you said was really interpreted by your fiance. Other thing... You and her talk together, but then you never know what she is really going back to say to her father about the issue (maybe you do). Or, you don't know what her father is saying to her to possibly be bullying her.

My opinion is forget about entertaining any ideas of having the money used for a down payment on a new truck (although you can't really stop them doing that with the money). My experience is that that is not going to work (although it might). What are you going to do when they can't make the payment for the month? You might decide to make it a couple times and then it will be expected. Or, you may say "no way", in which case your wife will be stuck in the middle and problems may begin. My opinion is providing money for a down payment on a truck is a non-starter.

You are going to have to first come up with a number that is comfortable for you.. If this truck issue never came up, what would you have been comfortable with providing for the sin sod? From there, you need to sit down with your wife and her family and discuss the future. Your intent is to be with your wife until you are old and dies I assume :-). You will always be there to help out in case the family needs it, but you have to think about you and your wifes' future. What is good for you and your wife ultimately will end up being good for her family. They need to understand that. Actually, you need to sit down and discuss this all with your fiance first and get her to totally understand things and be on your side, then bring this up with her family. To save face in this instance maybe you'll have to have a big display of money at the marriage with it given back to you ( minus the agreed upon number ).

The save face story? The father is jai dee and is helping you out by becoming successful. I'm assuming you have some good plans in the works. Parents being able to brag about their rich successful farang son in law... every day... far outshines the bragging they get to do for one month about his new truck. Maybe in this way, he can then go get a nice second-hand truck and still maintain face about the whole truck thing.

Having a family that respects you and is on your side is far better than one that is alienated from you and your wife, or worse, is constantly hassling your for money. Now is your chance to try.

or... you could just tell them to &lt;deleted&gt; off :-)

Mike

Edited August 24, 2005 by maikee

[britmaveric]

Just asked my Thai friend if he had heard of a 900k car for parents being used as sinsod...asked me how that is supposed to help the wife, and then asked me why I have such stupid friends.

No offence.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly!!!!

[zint]

Just asked my Thai friend if he had heard of a 900k car for parents being used as sinsod...asked me how that is supposed to help the wife, and then asked me why I have such stupid friends.

No offence.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

no problem, i find it ridiculous too, thats why i obviously haven't done it yet. i'm okay with paying for the wedding and something for the parents, too..but nothing extreme. we're both still young and i have to secure our future as well, which i've told them a few months ago after which the issue got dropped and didnt hear about it again until now. i'm a little worried they will drop the wedding if they dont get the car or whatever, but i also doubt it after us living together already for over a year.

[zint]

and i doubt she would leave me if they didn't get the car, as last time we discussed it i said i couldn't do it right now (thats how i said it and that was probably the mistake) and she broke down crying and saying if i'm angry at her she would move out, etc. and that she was sorry for making me sad and she understood. but if i wanted her to stay she would stay. so she ended up staying (obviously i didnt want her to leave) and the issue got dropped...now its being brought up again. sigh.

[haha]

reminds me of a beautiful taiwanese girl I met in college back in the 70's. she was so beautiful, words couldn't describe how she looked.

oh. her shape was incredible. she had this shiny black hair that flowed all the way down her back to the tip of her perfect butt. her big eyes had this vibrate look to them. and to top it off, her skin was blemish free. ahhhhh. ooohhhhh.

my teeth chattered whenever I saw her. ..like in that movie with jodie foster and anthony hopkins - silence of the lambs. ...fe fe fe fe.

for some reason, one day I went up to her and asked her if she would marry me. she looked at me right in the eye, and said quote, "if you buy me a house in ######, I will marry you." ..back then, the houses in that area cost around 300k dollars. it would probably be worth easily over a mil now. (this is in the san francisco area.)

....I wonder what ever happened to her?

[ghengis]

zint

If I were you I would cancel the wedding and send the girlfriend back to live with her parents. Tell her, if she wants to get married then there will be no or very little sinsot.

She then has the choice to get married or lose face. Alternatively, don't get married if it is going to cause too many financial problems.

The problem is that the more generous you are with some Thai women, the more demanding they become.

[ronigere]

here's the deal. i've known my thai girlfriend for almost two years and we've been living together since about 6 months into our relationship. she goes to quite a good university here, previously paid for by her family, now paid by me for almost a year. we're planning on getting married sometime by the end of this year but the deal is ..her parents are expecting a 900,000 baht car as the "wedding gift" to them. i told both the parents and my girlfriend a few months ago that we'd talk about it when the time comes but currently i dont have the money (or better, i need it for my career) to buy that type of car, neither paid in cash or paid in monthly rates. now as the wedding date is getting nearer, she says that her dad is still expecting the car, etc. etc. and that she wants to get this over with so that we don't owe anything anymore for the family and so on.

the problem is, i dont see myself buying this car for them anytime in the near future, but i still want to marry her, because i love her. we dont have a huge load of money and she knows it and doesnt care, but the car issue won't go away.

now, i explained to her that i pay for our apartment (where she lives in for over a year now), university (which her family doesnt need to pay for since over a year), food, clothing, etc. for her. on top of that, i really can't afford a car right now.

what is my best "excuse" to get out of the whole car buying deal but still going ahead with the wedding? we already discussed the showing of the money (99,999 baht) at the wedding and that goes back to us after the wedding, so the only thing the parents expect is the 900,000 baht car...but that seems a little extreme to me.

oh yeah, she's a "country girl" but has been to university in Bangkok for a year before i met her. (no, not a bargirl - if you're wondering). her parents own quite a large farm up country but they're still average/poor people.

any advice would be greatly appreciated.   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not a bar girl,wonderfull are you a bigot,find a bar girl you will only need to buy a motor bike.And whaty if she was