Restaurant Raid By Copyright 'Mafia'

[DavidOxon]

Hi there

a funny thing happened while I was out last night.

I was in a local farang owned restaurant out in the boonies of Hang Dong

The owner was singing a few songs on his guitar when a geeky looking guy with glasses came in and started taking photos. The owner's gf started taking pictures back! He then produced an id card and demanded to see what CDs they had in the place. These were handed over to (snatched by) the guy. The guy then demanded 20.0000 baht for illegal copies. The owner started to get involved then and a few other customers were showing interest.... then the other 6 guys that were waiting in the van outside made an appearance! The dispute spilled into the street where all the locals wanted to get involved, and then the police were called (by the bar owner's gf) I'm not 100% of the process, but after a visit to a police station, the owner was advised to pay the guy 10.000 baht to avoid the guy losing face....No idea if they were official or mafia, but be warned, they're around now and targetting farang establishments too

Amazing Thailand!

David

[Thailand]

On the spot fines basically?

Sounds like the BIB involved?

[annabel]

Pffffff...!! what the h_ell ...?? Looks like the Phuket / Pattaya Jet Ski Mafias have hit Chiang Mai but with a different theme.... Oye does it ever end

[ovenman]

Everybody has New Year's parties that need to be paid for somehow...

[gotlost]

This is not a new development. If you do a search this has been going on for some time in Thailand. As I say this most all the bars and restaurants in Chiang Mai have the proper music license and are posted along with their other licenses. You do not hear of this happening in town any more for this reason. So it sounds as if the establishments outside of town have made them self easy pickens.

[Johpa]

T'is the season for Farang owned establishments to be pressured by the BIB. They know that it is preferable to pay off the police rather than be closed on New Years eve. This has been going on for the entire 30 years of my observations of the local scene.

[rodcourt49]

This is not a new development. If you do a search this has been going on for some time in Thailand. As I say this most all the bars and restaurants in Chiang Mai have the proper music license and are posted along with their other licenses. You do not hear of this happening in town any more for this reason. So it sounds as if the establishments outside of town have made them self easy pickens.

..WRONG!..just last week two establishments in Loi Kroh Road were fined 60,000 and 30,000 respectively for this. Computers seized etc. (I heard this direct from one of the chaps). 3 years ago here a small FM Radio Station was fined in the order of 120,000.

[gotlost]

This is not a new development. If you do a search this has been going on for some time in Thailand. As I say this most all the bars and restaurants in Chiang Mai have the proper music license and are posted along with their other licenses. You do not hear of this happening in town any more for this reason. So it sounds as if the establishments outside of town have made them self easy pickens.

..WRONG!..just last week two establishments in Loi Kroh Road were fined 60,000 and 30,000 respectively for this. Computers seized etc. (I heard this direct from one of the chaps). 3 years ago here a small FM Radio Station was fined in the order of 120,000.

Correct!!! Reread my statement I said MOST.. You all ways have some dumb arsh new owner that thinks he is above the law and knows it all. That 10,000 baht tea money would of paid his license for two years. All bars and restaurants that are involved with owners of long time standing. have these license and are not bothered.

[pjclark1]

Reread my statement I said MOST.. You all ways have some dumb arsh new owner that thinks he is above the law and knows it all. That 10,000 baht tea money would of paid his license for two years. All bars and restaurants that are involved with owners of long time standing. have these license and are not bothered.

Tell that to the lady at the nearby noodle stall playing her radio ....... 50kbht fine.

(she was crying)

PS

The guy at HangDong didn't have anything irregular in the place ...... his waitress had a USB stick with Thai music on, in her handbag ........ that was why he was fined.

Edited January 1, 2011 by pjclark1

[gotlost]

Reread my statement I said MOST.. You all ways have some dumb arsh new owner that thinks he is above the law and knows it all. That 10,000 baht tea money would of paid his license for two years. All bars and restaurants that are involved with owners of long time standing. have these license and are not bothered.

Tell that to the lady at the nearby noodle stall playing her radio ....... 50kbht fine.

(she was crying)

PS

The guy at HangDong didn't have anything irregular in the place ...... his waitress had a USB stick with Thai music on, in her handbag ........ that was why he was fined.

[beano2274]

Happened in Bangkok to at a Restaurant I frequent, the owner was ordered to pay 20,000 or go to Jail, he told the Police he would prefer the Jail time as he did not have 20,000 at that time, they struck a deal for 6,000, and left with cash in hand.

[Bizz]

some one needs to get there head around this.in farang

land if you play music you pay about €250 per yearn.

there is a reason to standardize this with government approval and legitimisation before everything gets out of hand ,

basically a none on any future licence fee till final none is legislated.

[bangkokcitylimits]

This raids happen for years, used to be police from Bangkok, nothing new here I guess ? Seen many bars around mine paying 20.000b fines or hiding boxes with CD's in the foodcarts behind the bars.

Don't use illegal copies of whatever, simple.

The answer: use webradio or a remote controlled iPod.

All bar owners know about this happen from time to time and not only foreign owned places.

Edited January 1, 2011 by bangkokcitylimits

[Paagai]

This is not a new development. If you do a search this has been going on for some time in Thailand. As I say this most all the bars and restaurants in Chiang Mai have the proper music license and are posted along with their other licenses. You do not hear of this happening in town any more for this reason. So it sounds as if the establishments outside of town have made them self easy pickens.

..WRONG!..just last week two establishments in Loi Kroh Road were fined 60,000 and 30,000 respectively for this. Computers seized etc. (I heard this direct from one of the chaps). 3 years ago here a small FM Radio Station was fined in the order of 120,000.

Correct!!! Reread my statement I said MOST.. You all ways have some dumb arsh new owner that thinks he is above the law and knows it all. That 10,000 baht tea money would of paid his license for two years. All bars and restaurants that are involved with owners of long time standing. have these license and are not bothered.

Actually, not correct at all! I know several established businesses who's owners are not "dumb arsh" and who have proper licences that have still been hit very recently.

Having proper licences does not mean you can illegally copy music onto CDs or Memory sticks. That's their way around it. And if you don't have any such illicit items in the venue yourself they'll soon find one on your customers, or simply produce some "incriminating evidence" from thin air.

Nastiest bunch of the lot own a few obscure old Thai songs that aren't covered by any of the general licences, and which will magically appear on your computer when they visit.....

The scam then works by intimidation, taking you to the police station and threatening you with a night in Jail if you don't cede to their outrageous demands. CCTV to catch them planting evidence and ID them (they always come mob handed), plus insisting on taking it to court may win through IF you have all the licences - but TIT and they are mafia....

[pjclark1]

The scam then works by intimidation, taking you to the police station and threatening you with a night in Jail if you don't cede to their outrageous demands. CCTV to catch them planting evidence and ID them (they always come mob handed), plus insisting on taking it to court may win through IF you have all the licences - but TIT and they are mafia....

Not to mention the risk of them coming back another night to torch the place or fire a few shots into the premises if you didn't pay up.

[gotlost]

The scam then works by intimidation, taking you to the police station and threatening you with a night in Jail if you don't cede to their outrageous demands. CCTV to catch them planting evidence and ID them (they always come mob handed), plus insisting on taking it to court may win through IF you have all the licences - but TIT and they are mafia....

Not to mention the risk of them coming back another night to torch the place or fire a few shots into the premises if you didn't pay up.

A seriously positive comment by some one in the know.

[jaideeguy]

"Having proper licences does not mean you can illegally copy music onto CDs or Memory sticks. That's their way around it.'

So if you do have the 'proper license', can you play 'legit' music DVDs?? in a public establishment without being hara$$ed??

Seems that all 'legit' [and some non legit] movies have that FBI statement in the beginning saying that 'it is not for public distribution/viewing and you will be fined 5 million thb yada yada, but have never seen anything to that effect on 'legit' music discs.

And How many coppies are around with that FBI warning?? How can you tell if it is a real version or just a good copy??

[blabla1]

Funny thing is,they took the stick from the girl who works for me,from her private bag, i do not play Thai music and have all licenses, they had nothing on us and wanted 30000 because of the stick,anyway at the police station, there were no police just these guys, i asked to see police,they said no police here tonight, so i grabbed my gf and said bye bye, 7 of them then came out side two of them took of their shirts and wanted to fight, so i obliged, only then did police make an appearance and tried to cool the sittuation down,after that, i wanted to charge them for entering my property without a warrant,detaining my gf and wanting to beat me up, after all this,the police man freaked out at them and appologised to us and asked if we could pay 10000Baht to clear the matter up, 3am , what the hell, i slapped the money down and went home., oh the policeman asked if he could come and get a pizza some time...Amazing Thailand.

[Beetlejuice]

Funny thing is,they took the stick from the girl who works for me,from her private bag, i do not play Thai music and have all licenses, they had nothing on us and wanted 30000 because of the stick,anyway at the police station, there were no police just these guys, i asked to see police,they said no police here tonight, so i grabbed my gf and said bye bye, 7 of them then came out side two of them took of their shirts and wanted to fight, so i obliged, only then did police make an appearance and tried to cool the sittuation down,after that, i wanted to charge them for entering my property without a warrant,detaining my gf and wanting to beat me up, after all this,the police man freaked out at them and appologised to us and asked if we could pay 10000Baht to clear the matter up, 3am , what the hell, i slapped the money down and went home., oh the policeman asked if he could come and get a pizza some time...Amazing Thailand.

The whole setup it one big scam, involving unscrupulous police in collusion with thug gangs. Some thugs are sent round to find a reason to extort money from the farang business owner or customer as similar in the case of the Pattaya jetski scams.

Then the thugs use threats and intimidation to demand money trying to give the semblance that they are some sort of law enforcers.

The thugs first begin with demanding a ridiculous amount of money, then the nice policeman becomes involved and gets the sum of money demanded reduced, but in the end they all get something.

This is becoming one of the most common scams in Thailand regarding farang business owners, especially within the entertainment sectors, bars, restaurants, clubs and so on, and in some cases farang customers that use services of Thai owned businesses.

It appears the word has got round that the jetski scams in Pattaya based on fear used to bully farangs into paying up thousands of bahts really works, extorting money by intimidation and fear under the guise of the law can be a lucrative business and has spread to other parts of the country.

My advice to business owners is to ensure they are strictly 100% pukka and leave no reasons for them to fall foul of these criminal gangs, if not sure of the law, them check it out. You know the score, don’t leave yourselves vulnerable.

I believe these practices should be completely exposed and made public, those involved named and shamed. The same as has happened with the King Power duty free shop scams in Bangkok.

Personally, I wouldn’t want to be a business owner in Thailand even if given to me for free. No thank you, you`re welcome and the best of luck.

[millwall_fan]

No much to add to the above. Most of these guys know what they are talking about! This is a scam. It is an illegal extortion of money, by unscrupulous, mafia style gangs. The scam only works because as said above 'certain unscrupulous Police are involved in the scam.

There are certain steps you can take.

1. Get an official music licence from the Thai equivelent of the Performing Rights Society in the Uk. The website (mostly in Thai) is callled www. 1stopmusic.com anf the licence is in the name of MCT Phonoright. The licence costs 6,000 baht a year and entitles you to play CD's and music recorded on a computer. Unless you have at least 100 covers in your restaurant, they dont really want to sign you up, but will do so if you press them. We did

2. Play music through the radio stations on your TrueVisions TV. This is the cheapest way, but make sure you have a licence to play True in your restaurant/Bar That costs about 500 baht per month more than the domestic True Visions fee

3. Make sure you dont; have any Farangs on the ownership papers of the restauarant/Bar!!!!

If you are stung by these disreputable people. These steps may help

4. Have a lawyer that you can call immediately they arrive. A good Thai Lawyer should be able to see them off. If they insist on going to the police station, take the lawyer with you. The threat to lock up your wife (or the legal owner of the business) will melt away with a legal presence.

5. Even before the lawyer arrives, start taking photos of them full face and especially, if possible, the car they arrive in (number plates are useful)

6. They are not allowed to confiscate your equipment, so in the absence of you being able to utilise any of steps 1 to 5 above, a few beefy customers or mates may deter them

Many, many restaurant/bar owners in Chiang Mai whom I know and like have been turned over by these bastards. The saddest being a very nice Burmese lad who has an Italian style restaurant with the same name as my son, on Kampangdin Rd, who got the lowest fine of anyone i've ever known, but the 8,000 baht these F****ers made him pay wiped out all the contributions his Farang, Thai and Burmese friends had made to celebrate the birth of his daughter,

These pigs must be stopped and only by sharing information on forums like this will they be stopped.

[surayu]

Some of the previous reports about these copyrights muffins were talking about the need to have a license for EVERY "music producing company" used by the specific thai singer/s and another one that includes all foreigners tunes, also one report was talking about a guy who wanted to photocopy the ID's of these people and got beaten up by them because of this....

[caf]

No much to add to the above. Most of these guys know what they are talking about! This is a scam. It is an illegal extortion of money, by unscrupulous, mafia style gangs. The scam only works because as said above 'certain unscrupulous Police are involved in the scam.

There are certain steps you can take.

1. Get an official music licence from the Thai equivelent of the Performing Rights Society in the Uk. The website (mostly in Thai) is callled www. 1stopmusic.com anf the licence is in the name of MCT Phonoright. The licence costs 6,000 baht a year and entitles you to play CD's and music recorded on a computer. Unless you have at least 100 covers in your restaurant, they dont really want to sign you up, but will do so if you press them. We did

2. Play music through the radio stations on your TrueVisions TV. This is the cheapest way, but make sure you have a licence to play True in your restaurant/Bar That costs about 500 baht per month more than the domestic True Visions fee

3. Make sure you dont; have any Farangs on the ownership papers of the restauarant/Bar!!!!

If you are stung by these disreputable people. These steps may help

4. Have a lawyer that you can call immediately they arrive. A good Thai Lawyer should be able to see them off. If they insist on going to the police station, take the lawyer with you. The threat to lock up your wife (or the legal owner of the business) will melt away with a legal presence.

5. Even before the lawyer arrives, start taking photos of them full face and especially, if possible, the car they arrive in (number plates are useful)

6. They are not allowed to confiscate your equipment, so in the absence of you being able to utilise any of steps 1 to 5 above, a few beefy customers or mates may deter them

Many, many restaurant/bar owners in Chiang Mai whom I know and like have been turned over by these bastards. The saddest being a very nice Burmese lad who has an Italian style restaurant with the same name as my son, on Kampangdin Rd, who got the lowest fine of anyone i've ever known, but the 8,000 baht these F****ers made him pay wiped out all the contributions his Farang, Thai and Burmese friends had made to celebrate the birth of his daughter,

These pigs must be stopped and only by sharing information on forums like this will they be stopped.

True and candid post, MF.

I have a thai friend who experienced this scam and it bankrupted her newly started business. she had done nothing illegal

it is a pity our english language media don't have more courage to publicise what is going on. i certainly agree with your last paragraph. these corruption scams are the unacceptable face of what is basically a beautiful country and people.

but mafias the world over exist because so many people pretend they don't exist or turn a blind eye ( omerta)

caf

[blabla1]

Bottom line, legal laws and licenses don't mean shit in this country,they are just a magnet to attract false and corrupt opportunists, i called 1stop in BKK on the night, they said the real police would not do this, if you don't have a cop that you take care off evrey month and can call at anytime,be prepared to get more visits. Yes they will use force!!! .I think i'm for sale again,anyone want a great little business with small hicups?

No much to add to the above. Most of these guys know what they are talking about! This is a scam. It is an illegal extortion of money, by unscrupulous, mafia style gangs. The scam only works because as said above 'certain unscrupulous Police are involved in the scam.

There are certain steps you can take.

1. Get an official music licence from the Thai equivelent of the Performing Rights Society in the Uk. The website (mostly in Thai) is callled www. 1stopmusic.com anf the licence is in the name of MCT Phonoright. The licence costs 6,000 baht a year and entitles you to play CD's and music recorded on a computer. Unless you have at least 100 covers in your restaurant, they dont really want to sign you up, but will do so if you press them. We did

2. Play music through the radio stations on your TrueVisions TV. This is the cheapest way, but make sure you have a licence to play True in your restaurant/Bar That costs about 500 baht per month more than the domestic True Visions fee

3. Make sure you dont; have any Farangs on the ownership papers of the restauarant/Bar!!!!

If you are stung by these disreputable people. These steps may help

4. Have a lawyer that you can call immediately they arrive. A good Thai Lawyer should be able to see them off. If they insist on going to the police station, take the lawyer with you. The threat to lock up your wife (or the legal owner of the business) will melt away with a legal presence.

5. Even before the lawyer arrives, start taking photos of them full face and especially, if possible, the car they arrive in (number plates are useful)

6. They are not allowed to confiscate your equipment, so in the absence of you being able to utilise any of steps 1 to 5 above, a few beefy customers or mates may deter them

Many, many restaurant/bar owners in Chiang Mai whom I know and like have been turned over by these bastards. The saddest being a very nice Burmese lad who has an Italian style restaurant with the same name as my son, on Kampangdin Rd, who got the lowest fine of anyone i've ever known, but the 8,000 baht these F****ers made him pay wiped out all the contributions his Farang, Thai and Burmese friends had made to celebrate the birth of his daughter,

These pigs must be stopped and only by sharing information on forums like this will they be stopped.

[pjclark1]

Foreigners are not treated differently to locals, in fact they prefer to hold a local (female) in the jail as a hostage.

I have to disagree with Millwall, there are only 2 ways to avoid this type of extortion.

1) Don't have a business in Thailand

2) Get yourself a GF/wife with a policeman in the family who works locally

I've opted for 2)

Edited January 2, 2011 by pjclark1

[blabla1]

Foreigners are not treated differently to locals, in fact they prefer to hold a local (female) in the jail as a hostage.

I have to disagree with Millwall, there are only 2 ways to avoid this type of extortion.

1) Don't have a business in Thailand

2) Get yourself a GF/wife with a policeman in the family who works locally

I've opted for 2)

That's hit the nail on the head.

[blabla1]

Actually, mosquitos act the same,they come and suck your blood,you can repel them,slap them, spray them,lock your doors and windows,turn your aircon on, but in the end, you end up with Dengue.....no escape....:Dlol

[johnsjourney]

Influence seems to be key to business in the East, like bailouts in the West but on smaller scales. The good news is businesses do thrive so there must be ways to navigate it.

[millwall_fan]

Foreigners are not treated differently to locals, in fact they prefer to hold a local (female) in the jail as a hostage.

I have to disagree with Millwall, there are only 2 ways to avoid this type of extortion.

1) Don't have a business in Thailand

2) Get yourself a GF/wife with a policeman in the family who works locally

I've opted for 2)

Actually if you look at my point #3 it concurs with your point #1

Point #2 is very true. My wife's brother went to school with someone fairly senior. It sure helps!

So really we agree 100%!!!

[orang37]

Actually, mosquitos act the same,they come and suck your blood,you can repel them,slap them, spray them,lock your doors and windows,turn your aircon on, but in the end, you end up with Dengue.....no escape....:Dlol

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun BlaBla1,

Actually it is only the female mosquitoes who suck blood, and Aedes Aegyptus (primary carrier of Dengue) has evolved to have a quieter "buzz" so as to give less warning to prey.

Only a fully mature female Aedes can give you Dengue, so we think an analogy with the Thugs/BIB involved in the raids here breaks down.

But, we agree with the "no escape" clause ... unless ... as noted here by others: you got "connections," stalwart companions ready with cameras, CCTV's, etc. Even then, chances are it's going to cost the Farang.

Slapping the ersatz-police copyright raiders would probably be a big mistake. Unfortunately the only spray we can think of to use here is Mace, and that would also probably backfire.

best, ~o:37;

[Derifo]

Foreigners are not treated differently to locals, in fact they prefer to hold a local (female) in the jail as a hostage.

I have to disagree with Millwall, there are only 2 ways to avoid this type of extortion.

1) Don't have a business in Thailand

2) Get yourself a GF/wife with a policeman in the family who works locally

I've opted for 2)

And what if the policeman brother in-law happens to be a part of the scam?

I'm talking from experience.