Charles Schwab Debit Card/Checking/Brokerage Acct

[powderpuff]

To Whom It May Concern:

There is a new AEON ATM machine on the ground floor of Carrefour Onnut - outside the sliding glass doors in the car park area.

Cheers.

[jfchandler]

JGM, sorry, maybe I've misunderstood you... Are you saying you've ALREADY tried the CitiBank ATMs at Asoke using your Cap One ATM (non VISA or MC) card, and it didn't work in them? If that was the case, sorry, I missed it...

I knew you'd been trying AEON ATMs with the Cap One card and having no success. But that unfortunately was to be expected.

As I said, mine worked just fine at CitiBank BKK, both in the past when the card was on the PLUS network, and now more recently that Cap One switched to Cirrus.

PS - The other thing to mention about the CitiBank ATMs there, just in case, is they operate a bit differently... The machine doesn't swallow your card like the typical ones. The CitiBank ATMs are the kind where you slide the card in and then quickly slide it out again... Just a quick in and out... The first time I tried the ATMs there, I left my card in the slot, and the machine didn't like that and won't work that way. You gotta slide in and remove quick quick.

Edited February 17, 2011 by jfchandler

[jfchandler]

PP, do you mean they've replaced the existing machine there with a new one?

AEON has had an ATM in the Carrefour Onnut parking garage area, right next to the entry doors to the complex there, for as long as I can remember. It's part of a bank of 4 or so ATMs there next to ones for BKK Bank, TMB and one or two others.

The nice part of that location is, as you know, it's close to the BTS On Nut station and convenient for shopping, eating, etc in the Carrefour center there.

To Whom It May Concern:

There is a new AEON ATM machine on the ground floor of Carrefour Onnut - outside the sliding glass doors in the car park area.

Cheers.

[powderpuff]

The very same one. I thought it was new.

btw - How do AEON compare to others concerning exchange rates? Second grader explanation please.

[jgm005]

Pib, You may be right on the magnetic strip being done in. Never thought of that angle. I'll order up another one when I get back to the States next weekend. Though I shall still pursue State Farm or Schwab so I can be fee free with another ATM card.

JFC,

When I 1st used the Citibank ATM I stuck my card in and waited and waited until I 'read' the darn instructions to slide it in and quickly pull the card out.

[jfchandler]

I don't know if this subject lends itself to a 2nd grade explanation...but I'll try...

AEON ATMs will provide as good an exchange rate as any other Thai bank ATM when using a foreign card.... apart from the issue that they're the only ones (apart from CitiBank) that don't charge the 150 baht withdrawal fee.

What will make a difference for the exchange rate you receive is whether it's a VISA or MC logo card (VISA generally providing a better exchange rate) and whether your home bank that issued the card is charging a foreign currency fee or otherwise taking a cut of the transaction, as many of the larger U.S. banks do.

Cap One and Charles Schwab are among the notable exceptions where they absorb the 1% fee charged by the VISA and MC networks for foreign exchange, and don't charge any foreign currency fees of their own.

For some reason, the CitiBank ATMs in BKK at Asoke seem to provide a slightly but consistently lower exchange rate than AEONs ATMs do...even though both have no 150 baht withdrawal fee.

So, at present, the best result is going to be using an AEON ATM (with no 150 baht fee) with a home country card like Schwab or Capital One that don't charge any foreign currency fees. And Schwab and others similar that use VISA logo cards are going to be a bit better now than Cap One now that Cap One has switched its ATM card to the Cirrus (MasterCard) network.

But as to your exact question.... if you could use the exact same U.S. bank card at exactly the same time at ATMs of BKK Bank, TMB, Kasikorn and AEON, for example, you should get exactly the same exchange rate. With some rare exceptions, the Thai banks' ATMs use the exchange rates set by the VISA/MC card network of the card being used.

It's after that that all the other variables come into play, such as the Thai banks charging the 150 baht withdrawal fee and the U.S. banks often charging from 1 to 4% of their own foreign currency fees... all of which reduce the net amount of funds you'll end up with.

Edited February 17, 2011 by jfchandler

[jfchandler]

JFC,

When I 1st used the Citibank ATM I stuck my card in and waited and waited until I 'read' the darn instructions to slide it in and quickly pull the card out.

And then it still didn't work???

[Pib]

Pib, You may be right on the magnetic strip being done in. Never thought of that angle. I'll order up another one when I get back to the States next weekend. Though I shall still pursue State Farm or Schwab so I can be fee free with another ATM card.

JFC,

When I 1st used the Citibank ATM I stuck my card in and waited and waited until I 'read' the darn instructions to slide it in and quickly pull the card out.

When I had that BofA card that was intermittent/had a magnetic strip problem, how fast I swiped the card made a difference into whether it would work or not...but when I got the new card I could swipe slow or fast and it didn't make a difference. A new card may solve some or all of your "working intermittently" Cap One ATM card problem....except on AEON machines.

[Pib]

Regarding the exchange rate a person really gets after considering the Visa/Mastercard 1% fee which your bank may or may not eat for you and any other fees your bank may charge, if using the below Visa currency exchange site to enter the total bank foreign transaction fee percentage-wise being applied you can see what your effective exchange rate will be. If your bank says they charge a 1% foreign transaction fee that probably means they are not absorbing the Visa/Mastercard 1% fee for you. When I say effective exchange rate, I mean after you have considered any associated fees that hit your bank account due to the baht transaction. When entering the percentage be sure to enter it as a -1, -2, etc., as that will give you an effective exchange rate.

For example, a few minutes ago I used the Visa site below and entered 0, -1, -2, -3, and -4 which should cover the bank/foreign transaction percentage fees most banks would charge. This snapshot in time check came out as shown below.

Percent Fee.......USD Exchange Rate

0%.....................30.655

1%.....................30.348

2%.....................30.042

3%.....................29.735

4%.....................29.429

Wow, see how just a few percent in fee cost can make a big difference.

Visa Currency Exchange Web Page

http://usa.visa.com/...ex_rates_us.jsp

[jgm005]

I am sorry. I should of been more clear.

The 1st time I tried to use a ATM card, which was NOT a Capital One ATM, I did not read the instructions before hand until the screen and I had a stare down. Then I handled it correctly.

The three times I tried Capital One ATM over a period of a few days (both mine and my wife's) at Citibank Asoke we got the 'Invalid transaction ...' message. Which maybe, as Pib pointed out to me, the magnetic strip. No luck, to date, with Capital One. Will give it one more go Saturday before I am off to the States and will report on same. Sorry for the confusion

JFC,

When I 1st used the Citibank ATM I stuck my card in and waited and waited until I 'read' the darn instructions to slide it in and quickly pull the card out.

And then it still didn't work???

Edited February 17, 2011 by jgm005

[jfchandler]

JGM, thanks for clarifying that... Let us know what happens if you try again with Cap One and CitiBank on Saturday..

If you tried CitiBank with two different Cap One cards, yours and your wife's, then you might assume it's not a magnetic strip problem with both cards...

There are times when a particular ATM may be offline or have some network problem... even though it appears to be functioning...

All I can say is, it clearly worked for me the other day (Cap One Cirrus ATM only card at CitiBank Asoke). So that would pretty clearly suggest there isn't an ongoing systemic problem with using the two together...

I'm assuming you've made sure that Cap One hasn't suddenly decided to place one of their famous security/fraud holds on your card because it's being used outside the U.S.???

[jfchandler]

After the CitiBank deal-discussion, I was doing some accounting at home today, and found something that makes me feel better.

I have a small bank VISA debit card that pays a good interest rate and I like to use... All ATM withdrawals and POS with the card always show up as a single debit to my account. And this past Monday, 2/14, I happened to use the card for a bunch of POS... So today I decided to look and see how the exchange rates went...

I used the card four different times Monday afternoon and evening. In each case, the resulting exchange rate once the final debits posted to my account was 30.72. By comparison, the BOT IER for the day was 30.75 and the XRates rate for the day was 30.78. That's pretty darned good...

So then I went back and looked at the last time I'd used the same VISA debit card to make an ATM withdrawal, which happened to be Tues., Jan. 25. Exchange rate for the AEON ATM withdrawal was 30.61, and on that day, IER was 30.99 and XRates was 30.96... Not quite as good as POS, but still respectable...and I'm assuming that rate reflects a 1% card network fee being taken.

I found it interesting that this particular card appears to not have a card network fee for POS, but does appear to have one for ATM withdrawals.

[Pib]

The three times I tried Capital One ATM over a period of a few days (both mine and my wife's) at Citibank Asoke we got the 'Invalid transaction ...' message. Which maybe, as Pib pointed out to me, the magnetic strip. No luck, to date, with Capital One. Will give it one more go Saturday before I am off to the States and will report on same. Sorry for the confusion

With both cards doing it, I seriously doubt it's a magnetic strip problem. Probably the CIRRUS network thing unless Cap One has placed some type of hold on your account...but since you have already bent Cap One's ear several times it's probably the CIRRUS network thing.

[jgm005]

I have bent Cap One's ear, politely, more times then I wish to remember. Latest was yesterday. They say I am not blocked. I'll let the thread know in a few days after another go at Citibank Asoke.

With both cards doing it, I seriously doubt it's a magnetic strip problem. Probably the CIRRUS network thing unless Cap One has placed some type of hold on your account...but since you have already bent Cap One's ear several times it's probably the CIRRUS network thing.

[Pib]

I have bent Cap One's ear, politely, more times then I wish to remember. Latest was yesterday. They say I am not blocked. I'll let the thread know in a few days after another go at Citibank Asoke.

With both cards doing it, I seriously doubt it's a magnetic strip problem. Probably the CIRRUS network thing unless Cap One has placed some type of hold on your account...but since you have already bent Cap One's ear several times it's probably the CIRRUS network thing.

Other than the current Cap One ATM card problem, do you have any other issues with Cap One Banking....excluding the current ATM card issue, would you recommend Cap One Banking? The reason I ask is because I'm seriously thinking about attempting to open savings and checking accounts with Cap One since they offer very good savings account interest rates and one of their checking accounts provides a debt card with no foreign transaction fee and possibly a descent ATM fee reimbursement policy. I've also been very impressed with their Cap One Cash Rewards credit card (which I'm currently using), their clear and open disclosures/fee structure, and banking/credit card websites. Big Thanks for any feedback.

[jfchandler]

Pib, re your question, I've had decent experience with them for a long time, on multiple of their products...

There have been times when their CSRs are boobs....but then again, they're a large bank, and the same probably can be said about the others as well... For some reason, when I've had phone contact with them, if it's not U.S. based staff, it seems often to have been Canadian...where I hear phrases like "aboot". But at least I can understand them.

They also get a lot of consumer complaints for what others describe as arbitrary, capricious kinds of account decisions -- though I've never encountered that myself.

And as you know, they have a fairly aggressive security setup re foreign use of their debit and credit cards, meaning account holders will periodically find themselves denied and/or have to call the bank to give them periodic travel notifications, particularly with credit card accounts.

They also have a longer than normal hold time on incoming ACH and other bank deposits of 5 business days, though that doesn't seem to apply to things like pension check direct deposits.

All in all, their avoidance of any foreign currency fees on any of their products, a pretty good and comprehensive online banking setup, and competitive rates and features both on their deposit accounts and credit cards (including rewards) make them hard not to consider. For instance, for credit card users, they can receive an automated email every time a transaction is made and/or a transaction is made outside the U.S.

Ohh...and...they are finicky about accounts needing to have a U.S. address of record, though lately they've expanded their roster of account types that will allow electronic monthly statements to include pretty much everything, which hadn't been the case in the past.

[jgm005]

Pib,

JFC said it all. I have been with them for about four years now. To recap from my dealings:

1)

CSR's are just that cookie cutter boobs. Though, now and then, I will get one that knows more than I do. And the last one was of that quality.

2)

If you do not tell them before hand you are going overseas you will find your ATM blocked. Learned that the hard way. Getting it unblocked was easy enough.

3)

Every trip (3 months at a crack) I will call ahead to tell then exact dates and countries I will be in so as my card will not be blocked. The trip I am on they only would accept 60 days so I Googled reminded myself to notify them, again, on the 59th day to cover my whole 90 days. Always before they would note it for the full time.

4)

The credit card is great but calling their CSR's you will get a Filipino and their scripts on a computer screen. Calling the banking side I always seem to get someone stateside.

5)

The long hold on a ACH transfer into the savings account is a bummer. I have to plan out ahead in moving money to cover the 9 days. Example: Day 1 I request the money to be moved; Day 2 it settles into the account but not accessible (unless you do this on a holiday or weekend than add more time). Once I see the money posted into the account I mentally add 7 days to the post date to know when I can pull it out. I maybe off by a day on this but this how I work it.

6)

Love the alerts you can set up on the credit card side

7)

I'd recommend them even with all my 'complaining' on the ATM 'invalid transction' stuff I have been getting since mid-December.

At this time I only have two ATMs! Capital One non-branded ATM. And a local USA credit union Visa branded Debit card but they charge 1%. My wife gets tired of me moaning on fees. So thus I am looking for a 3rd source!

Other than the current Cap One ATM card problem, do you have any other issues with Cap One Banking....excluding the current ATM card issue, would you recommend Cap One Banking? The reason I ask is because I'm seriously thinking about attempting to open savings and checking accounts with Cap One since they offer very good savings account interest rates and one of their checking accounts provides a debt card with no foreign transaction fee and possibly a descent ATM fee reimbursement policy. I've also been very impressed with their Cap One Cash Rewards credit card (which I'm currently using), their clear and open disclosures/fee structure, and banking/credit card websites. Big Thanks for any feedback.

[powderpuff]

JFC. I get that AEON give a RELATIVELY close to same exchange rate as other ATM's.

Pib. I have Schwab One VISA debit card & I am very happy with their service.

I am gonna begin using a BAC VISA ATM card & I'll use AEON to do my cash advance. Then I'll see what fees if any BAC charge.

I am also gonna need to swipe a US Bank VISA debit card. I'll use AEON for that too.

Anyone have feedback on those 2 big US banks? Fees?

[jgm005]

I need to be enlighten.

At 15:21 at the AEON ATM in Paragon I used a VISA Debit Card to pull 15,000bt

Exchange rate computed to be 30.5107. Account was debited $491.63

At 16:25 at the Citibank ATM at Asoke I used a Capital One Non branded ATM card (YES, it actually worked)to pull 15,000bt

Exchange rate computed to be 30.3207. Account was debited $494.71

IER was 30.618 when I checked at 17:05

The one thing I can not figure out is the following and maybe I am overlooking something. I always do an inquiry first and the Capital One account showed 37,747.08. After I did the ATM pull for 15,000bt the account now shows 22,716.97bt. A difference of 30.11bt.

Any ideas? Thanks!

[jfchandler]

Not quite PP.. I guess you didn't get my 2nd grader explanation above...

Assuming you use the same card for the withdrawal, AEON ATMs, just on exchange rate alone, will provide exactly the same exchange rate as most Thai banks ATMs, with a few rare exceptions (like Bank of Ayudhya and SCB) where the Thai bank rate could be lower, not higher. Assuming you use the same card, no Thai bank ATM will give you any higher an exchange rate than AEON. And then, of course, all the Thai bank ATMs will charge you 150 baht per withdrawal for the privilege of using a non-Thai bank card.

Regarding using any Bank of America card in Thailand, I'd say that's a big mistake unless you enjoy throwing your money down a BAC hole. Last time I checked, BofA charges $5 per foreign ATM withdrawal plus an additional 1% fee on whatever amount withdrawn as a foreign currency charge. That's for ATMs... I'm not sure how BofA would handle the fees for a bank counter withdrawal here... but I'm not optimistic about that...

I'm not sure what you mean about using debit cards to do a "cash advance." With AEON, you can use their ATMs to withdraw money from your checking account using a VISA logo debit card. I don't know for sure, but I've never heard that AEON offices will do counter withdrawals on foreign ATM cards...

JFC. I get that AEON give a RELATIVELY close to same exchange rate as other ATM's.

Pib. I have Schwab One VISA debit card & I am very happy with their service.

I am gonna begin using a BAC VISA ATM card & I'll use AEON to do my cash advance. Then I'll see what fees if any BAC charge.

I am also gonna need to swipe a US Bank VISA debit card. I'll use AEON for that too.

Anyone have feedback on those 2 big US banks? Fees?

Edited February 18, 2011 by jfchandler

[Pib]

JGM,

Thanks for the great info/reply in your post #137 above. Sounds like the "being overseas" thing causes a pain on keeping the ATM card unblocked. JFC said the same thing regarding the blocking. I need to think more on whether I want to sign up as I want to get their good interest rates, free ACH transfer capability, and no foreign transaction fee/ATM reimbursement fee Debit Card...primarily as backup to a couple other accounts/cards I have, but I would definitely deposit some funds to get their interest rates. Thanks again.

Pib

[jfchandler]

JGM, first, glad to hear and see that your Cap One Cirrus ATM card worked fine at CitiBank Asoke, without any 150 baht or almost $5 fee, as I had expected it should...

As for the discrepancy in the CitiBank amounts, I can comment on a couple things...

1. Sometimes I get a resulting balance printout on my CitiBank ATM receipt after having made a withdrawal, and that invariably doesn't match up with the actual balance in my U.S. account.

2. The reason for that, and perhaps your situation, seems to be that CitiBank initially reports an amount and you'll see perhaps a "pending" charge against your U.S. account. But then within a day or two, that charge becomes final and the actual debited amount usually changes a slight bit.. I suppose I could see a $1 change on a $500 withdrawal.

I noticed that the other day when I did a 1,000 baht test pull from CitiBank with Cap One Cirrus... It started out as $32.50 or something and ended up at $32.60 or some such thing a day later...

I've seen the same thing happen with POS purchases involving other banks and cards... The initial "pending" amount in U.S. $ usually shift a tiny bit when the transaction posts as final. I'm assuming that's due to day to day fluctuations in exchange rates and the timing of when something here gets processed over the international card network back to the U.S.

I need to be enlighten.

At 15:21 at the AEON ATM in Paragon I used a VISA Debit Card to pull 15,000bt

Exchange rate computed to be 30.5107. Account was debited $491.63

At 16:25 at the Citibank ATM at Asoke I used a Capital One Non branded ATM card (YES, it actually worked)to pull 15,000bt

Exchange rate computed to be 30.3207. Account was debited $494.71

IER was 30.618 when I checked at 17:05

The one thing I can not figure out is the following and maybe I am overlooking something. I always do an inquiry first and the Capital One account showed 37,747.08. After I did the ATM pull for 15,000bt the account now shows 22,716.97bt. A difference of 30.11bt.

Any ideas? Thanks!

[jfchandler]

Pib, I would say the foreign blocking problem with Cap One is more of an issue with their credit cards, and less of an issue with their straight ATM card. I can't speak to their VISA or MC logo debit cards, having never had one.

Of course with their straight ATM card, you can't use it for POS purchases, only ATM withdrawals. So I don't recall ever having to hassle with them about unblocking a straight ATM card.

Now their credit cards, that's an entirely different story.

JGM,

Thanks for the great info/reply in your post #137 above. Sounds like the "being overseas" thing causes a pain on keeping the ATM card unblocked. JFC said the same thing regarding the blocking. I need to think more on whether I want to sign up as I want to get their good interest rates, free ACH transfer capability, and no foreign transaction fee/ATM reimbursement fee Debit Card...primarily as backup to a couple other accounts/cards I have, but I would definitely deposit some funds to get their interest rates. Thanks again.

Pib

[Pib]

I need to be enlighten.

At 15:21 at the AEON ATM in Paragon I used a VISA Debit Card to pull 15,000bt

Exchange rate computed to be 30.5107. Account was debited $491.63

At 16:25 at the Citibank ATM at Asoke I used a Capital One Non branded ATM card (YES, it actually worked)to pull 15,000bt

Exchange rate computed to be 30.3207. Account was debited $494.71

IER was 30.618 when I checked at 17:05

The one thing I can not figure out is the following and maybe I am overlooking something. I always do an inquiry first and the Capital One account showed 37,747.08. After I did the ATM pull for 15,000bt the account now shows 22,716.97bt. A difference of 30.11bt.

Any ideas? Thanks!

Maybe a fee was charged for the inquiry (by the ATM, home country bank, or network) and/or the exchange rate changed just a little between the time you did the inquiry transaction and the actual funds withdrawal transaction.

[grin]

Cap One in my opinion has a problem with their ACH transfers. I like the fact that you can set up periodic transfers online unlike Schwab where periodic transfers have to be submitted manually. The problem is that to set up any ACH transfer, one-time or periodic, you must have the cash cleared in your account at the time you set it up even though the transfer may occur in the future when you know the funds will be in your account.

Quicken direct connect (Mac and PC) works fine for both checking and savings accounts but you have to manually download transactions for the credit card accounts.

[Pib]

Pib, I would say the foreign blocking problem with Cap One is more of an issue with their credit cards, and less of an issue with their straight ATM card. I can't speak to their VISA or MC logo debit cards, having never had one.

Of course with their straight ATM card, you can't use it for POS purchases, only ATM withdrawals. So I don't recall ever having to hassle with them about unblocking a straight ATM card.

Now their credit cards, that's an entirely different story.

JGM,

Thanks for the great info/reply in your post #137 above. Sounds like the "being overseas" thing causes a pain on keeping the ATM card unblocked. JFC said the same thing regarding the blocking. I need to think more on whether I want to sign up as I want to get their good interest rates, free ACH transfer capability, and no foreign transaction fee/ATM reimbursement fee Debit Card...primarily as backup to a couple other accounts/cards I have, but I would definitely deposit some funds to get their interest rates. Thanks again.

Pib

I've been using the Cap One Credit Card like mad for about 45 days now and no transaction has been blocked so far....but maybe come that 60 day point it may change.

Today I did my first charge at HomePro and they attempted the DCC thing on me...the DCC would have only given me a 29.4905 exchange rate...approx 3.7% lower than the TT rate..I had them cancel the transcation/charge and redo the charge in Baht. The charge was for 8,890 baht; with the DCC rate my account got hit for a minute or so with a $301.37 charge; but after canceling the charge and redoing it in baht, my account was hit with a $290.11 charge...saved myself over $11 by just saying "No to DCC!" And today, the Mastercard exchange rate I got was a few hundreths higher than the TT rate, but that was the preliminary rate...when the transaction clears/posts it will probably drop a little since that has been the routine so far. And what was neat, when I got home there were the Cap One alert emails I had setup to notify me of any foriegn transaction with the dollar amouts mentioned above and the time of the emails matched the time on the charge receipts to the minute...Cap One generated the emails within just a few seconds of the actual transaction...that's about as real time you can get considering I'm in Thailand and the email was generated by Cap One in the States.

So far, only Sizzler and HomePro have attempted the DCC ripoff; but at least Sizzler asked me before they did the charge if I wanted to charge in baht or dollars; HomePro didn't ask. The HomePro cashier sure was frustrated for a few minutes in trying to figure out how to cancel/reverse the charge but she got it done. So now I know when ever charging at Sizzler and HomePro (or at least those two particular store locations) to be sure to tell the clerk before doing the transaction to charge in baht and not dollars, as that will save time and clerk frustration in redoing the charge. It sure don't furstrate me in telling them to cancel/reverse a DCC charge as I'm saving myself around 4% on the charge.

Edited February 18, 2011 by Pib

[jfchandler]

Pib, sounds like someone's been going on a shopping spree... 9000 baht at HomePro????

As for the other things...

Yep, I get (and want) the Cap One emails as well... As far as I recall, they're always waiting for me in my email inbox by the time I travel home from shopping...very quick to arrive.

I've bought various, mostly small things at my local Home Pro, and don't recall them ever trying to pull the old DCC swindle on me at the Chidlom branch... I've only done one bigger ticket purchase from them, and that was a LONG time ago... Can't recall whether they stuck me for $ or not back then... That was before I became "wise."

Same story with the local Sizzlers around these parts... Can't recall them ever trying to hit me for DCC... Maybe you LOOK like a tourist... Pibbie???

[Pib]

I knew that "looks like a tourist" comment I made in another topic/post would come back and bite me!

[JimGant]

Related to several of the posts above.....

You get a crummier exchange rate using the MC/Cirrus system vs. the Visa/Plus system. Both with ATM withdrawals and with debit/credit transactions. We've a lot of data on this thread to support this fact, albeit most with ATM transactions. But, here are some data points to support the credit card side of this assertion. (That this carries over to the ATM side should be of no surprise, as jgm's facts above point out.)

I've got two credit cards with USAA. One is a MC, with a Cirrus brand on the back. The other is a Visa, with a Cirrus brand on the back. Nothing too surprising here -- Bank of America also has their Visa cards on the Cirrus network.

Just recently I started using the USAA Visa credit card, when I discovered their 1% cashback went to the same account as with their MC (which I'd been using as primary, but with the Visa in the drawer for contingency.) Anyway, the wife still uses the MC -- which does help breakout who's spending what, and where (I'm an accounting freak, and thus DO tabulate all the mundane -- even 'tho' we know our health will long go before our wealth....)

So recently I discovered we'd been shopping at different locations at the same (approximate) time - she with her USAA MC, me with my USAA Visa. (She actually gets a larger spending allowance, when she agrees that we don't have to shop together -- which drives me crazy )

January 19th, MasterCard: Her actual FX rate (i.e., baht divided by dollars charged -- before adding on the 1% FT charge) was 30.24. The MC website gave 30.31 as the rate applicable for the day charged (one day after shopping day). The Bangkok Bank TT rate for that same day was: 30.40.

January 19th, Visa: My actual rate was 30.38. The Visa website ALSO gave 30.38 as the FX rate I should receive (almost the same as the BB TT rate of 30.40).

Interestingly, the Visa website's numbers have been exactly what I've experienced in the last 6 transactions with my Visa credit card. I mean, the exact number to two decimal points.** MC, on the other hand, has published a lower FX rate vs. Visa; and since Visa's rate is almost the same as the TT rate, MC's rate is, of course, lower than the TT rate. And what's even more maddening -- the actual rate we've been getting is even less than the published MC rate (while, again, with Visa, the rates have coincided).

Summary: I've been averaging just about .1% *better* than the TT rate with my USAA Visa credit card -- and .22% *worse* than the TT rate with the same company's MC. [Note: this is before the 1% FT fee is applied; howver, the 1% USAA cashback feature neutralizes, one for one, this charge. So, effectively, I'm realizing slightly better with my Visa credit card than the TT rate -- and somwhat worse with the MC.]

What's going on? First and foremost, both MC and Visa are such powerhouses that they're both realizing at least the IER when they do their zillion FX transactions per day. That MC/Cirrus is charging you a worse FX rate than Visa/Plus -- means they're creating a larger spread to pocket, and maybe/probably share with their issuing banks.

Now, the other interesting thing is, apparently the Visa or MC logo takes precedence over the PLUS or Cirrus branding: Remember, I've both a USAA Visa, and a USAA MC, both with the Cirrus label on the back. But, I'm getting 100% Visa results with their logo card -- and samo samo when the MC logoed card is used. It's irrelevant which wire these transactions are riding -- it's probably the same. Just the network protocols -- and greed factor -- as defined by Visa and MC, are applicable. And it's possible that, at the end of the day, Visa pays the Cirrus network a share -- since both Visa and Cirrus reside on my card. But, just as a matter of curiosity, since that doesn't affect my bottom line.

Anyway, the same as above is in play with ATM transactions. If your ATM/Debit card has a Visa logo, you'll realize a better exchange rate than with a MC logoed ATM/Debit card. [Remember, your FX is based on near-real time, not the once a day figure you can get at the Visa and MC FX websites. So don't expect a match there for ATM transactions.]

If it's a straight ATM card, i.e., without an MC or Visa logo, it defaults to the network listed on the back (which might be only indicated as the end of an 800 number). And you pay a little more dearly if it's Cirrus.

** The Visa FX website for 'card is dominated in dollars, transaction is in baht' gives dollars per 1 baht. Thus, you need to divide the fraction you get into "one" for the correct 'baht for dollar' exchange rate. Plugging in the other way will give you an interesting spread....

[jgm005]

Thanks for the feedback on my queries.

I'd like to chime in on Home Pro. This is the one in Khon Kaen. The 1st time we where there and I charged a whole bunch of stuff for a remodeling job, it was not until I got home and noticed they did that DCC thing on me. Now, before I even hand the card to the cashier I spell it out, slowly, "IN THAI BAHT".

Back to Capital One. In my personal experiences I have had the ATM blocked when I did not inform them before hand. It only took one time and now as a habit I call them to inform them.

Also on Capital One POS the alert really comes quick and the amount in the email consistently changes slightly once it posts from the amount on the email. On the Capital One ATM initial post (pending as they call it) it has never changed once it clears.