Thais And The Environment

[Nawtier]

When it effects trees that are part of the valley, trees that were here before them and that will take another 100 years to replace....if at all...i get annoyed.

I can see several trees like this now that will be dead in a year or 2.

Anybody got any thoughts on what to do...who to contact ??

Look at the size of this tree in comparison to the cars.....it died because the knobs built up the soil around the base of the tree maybe 1m and the bark rotted, disease and fungus' settle in and it dies a slow death.

I am going to take some pics of the other trees of this significant size and post them.

I am wondering if anyone here has contacts with Thai people in environmental awareness campaigns that do in fact care and may be able to help in one way or another.

It needs to be put in front of the people in charge of the area. It has been done before and can be done again. But I do not know who to contact, I tried a couple of local foundations and such, but they were either totally uncontactable, or did not care.

__________________

[Nawtier]

Thing is, these giant trees do not belong to one, the land owner or the government if on government land, they belong to the community and are a national treasure.....they should not be treated as they are and need to be respected and protected for all.

This valley will be ruined if these large trees are all allowed to die simply from neglect, or lack of knowldege.

[thaibeachlovers]

Sad to say, but in my experience, Thais think the environment is something to exploit, not treasure.

Even sadder, I do not see any evidence that that attitude will change.

[jsflynn603]

It looks to me as though the tree is being killed by a blight of some sort.

In America there have been many blights, often fungal infections carried by beetles of some sort. Virtually all giant elm trees (this sort of looks like an elm) have been destroyed by "Dutch Elm Disease," which is a fungal disease carried by tiny boring beetles. The mighty and useful American Chestnut tree is virtually non-existent (as with elms, trees will grow but die within 20 years) and the delightful Butternut (delightful for making chocolate chip cookies) is currently being destroyed by a fungal blight.

If you are truly concerned, learn about the tree, and see if others of its kind are being affected, then search for those trees who don't seem to be affected, gather seeds, cross-breed and continue to look for resistance. A single man in my state of New Hampshire has done this with the Elm and eventually found resistant trees, and by cross-breeding developed a tree that "encapsulates the fungus" creating total resistance. He now sells and in some cases gives saplings (young trees) away to repopulate areas. The same has been done with the Butternut, and in the American state of Vermont thousands of hectares have been replanted with fungus resistant Butternuts.

[stander]

Quote

".....it died because the knobs built up the soil around the base of the tree maybe 1m and the bark rotted, disease and fungus' settle in and it dies a slow death."

You don't know what caused this tree to die.

I imagine you approached the various local organisations with your condescending attitude, so you are unlikely ever to be in a position to improve the situation.

Edited January 3, 2011 by stander

[katabeachbum]

OPs post has been edited, as parts of it was naming and shaming Thais

Please keep it sivilized and within Forum rules

Did you know thailand has had the strictest motorbike emission requirements in the wolrd for a while, just recently matched by those introduced in EU?

and all new diesel vehicles will within this year have emission on par with Europe, Euro IV.

Thai government is focused on environment

[kartman]

But you will not be able to see the new diesels as they will be shrouded in a thick black acrid fog from all the unregulated 'old' diesels.

[transam]

OPs post has been edited, as parts of it was naming and shaming Thais

Please keep it sivilized and within Forum rules

Did you know thailand has had the strictest motorbike emission requirements in the wolrd for a while, just recently matched by those introduced in EU?

and all new diesel vehicles will within this year have emission on par with Europe, Euro IV.

Thai government is focused on environment

Unfortunately ' locally ', in the sticks the local gov do not give a shit about anything except sitting in a bar in the afternoons. I had a few problems in the area, they said we will write letters, they sent the letters, they were ignored, so end of story. I complained, they shrugged their shoulders.

[katabeachbum]

But you will not be able to see the new diesels as they will be shrouded in a thick black acrid fog from all the unregulated 'old' diesels.

Europe wasnt developed over night either.

and I belive USA is still the worst energy consumer per citizen, even if there are presently more sold new cars in China

[slapout]

But you will not be able to see the new diesels as they will be shrouded in a thick black acrid fog from all the unregulated 'old' diesels.

Europe wasnt developed over night either.

and I belive USA is still the worst energy consumer per citizen, even if there are presently more sold new cars in China

Not sure what the "worst energy consumer" term has to do with the op's topic. If you want to say the USA consumers more energy per individual, that is one thing but your belief may be somewhat distorted about the efforts toward cleaning up the environment overall.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I think the OP used a bad example.. What you see in the picture is a gardening issue, even if the OP was right saying that there was too much soil put around the tree. That would be a mistake, it's not an example of actively or passively destroying the environment; whoever owns that plot wanted that tree there. So.. mistake, or disease.

[IanForbes]

Sad to say, but in my experience, Thais think the environment is something to exploit, not treasure.

Even sadder, I do not see any evidence that that attitude will change.

It is the same the world over. I come from Vancouver Island in British Columbia where we've had close to a century of exploitation during a time we should have known better.

My island used to be covered in trees like this....

Now it all looks like this...

Now we have no more trees, the once prosperous logging camps are all gone along with the jobs. And, the tax free public land was turned over to the logging companies who are now real estate developers selling off public land for private profits. It was all done in a sneeky, under that table deal.

[DougLee]

Are you serious?

Teach them to use the garbage 1 millimeter away from their hands before teaching them to keep trees alive

[Chunky1]

That first pic is truly amazing Ian. Beautiful.

[canopy]

Sad to say, but in my experience, Thais think the environment is something to exploit, not treasure.

Even sadder, I do not see any evidence that that attitude will change.

Sad, but true and well said. Thailand may have the tightest laws on the books and can boast its standards are in line with the best countries of the world. But what does that mean when the reality is rampant environmental exploitation is an accepted norm and environmental awareness is so painfully non-existent.

[Nawtier]

I think the OP used a bad example.. What you see in the picture is a gardening issue, even if the OP was right saying that there was too much soil put around the tree. That would be a mistake, it's not an example of actively or passively destroying the environment; whoever owns that plot wanted that tree there. So.. mistake, or disease.

Really....that tree was there long before any of the currnet landowners were most likely born......

I used this tree as an example because it is what I said it was....the development of this plot built a garden around this tree and up against it, at least 1 metre of raised soil around the trunk of the tree.....if you think this is natural and healthy for the tree.....up to you.

[Nawtier]

Quote

".....it died because the knobs built up the soil around the base of the tree maybe 1m and the bark rotted, disease and fungus' settle in and it dies a slow death."

You don't know what caused this tree to die.

I imagine you approached the various local organisations with your condescending attitude, so you are unlikely ever to be in a position to improve the situation.

Thankyou for your input.....please ignore this thread from now on if you do not mind.....i am looking for people to assist with the request in the OP......you are obviously not one of them.

[bkkjames]

Sad to say, but in my experience, Thais think the environment is something to exploit, not treasure.

Even sadder, I do not see any evidence that that attitude will change.

It is the same the world over. I come from Vancouver Island in British Columbia where we've had close to a century of exploitation during a time we should have known better.

My island used to be covered in trees like this....

Now it all looks like this...

Now we have no more trees, the once prosperous logging camps are all gone along with the jobs. And, the tax free public land was turned over to the logging companies who are now real estate developers selling off public land for private profits. It was all done in a sneeky, under that table deal.

and here's the Provincial Government's side of the story:

FACTS ABOUT REFORESTATION IN B.C.

Oct. 1, 2009 Ministry of Forests and Range British Columbia is known around the world for its forests and forest products. Reforestation is a key element of B.C.’s sustainable forestry regime. Here are the facts about reforestation in B.C.:

• About two-thirds of British Columbia’s total 95 million hectares are forested.
• British Columbia has about as much forest as it did 150 years ago. About three per cent of areas that were formerly forests have been permanently converted to other land uses, such as towns, cities or for agricultural use.
• In British Columbia, reforestation is strictly regulated so that new forests mirror the diversity of natural forests, and support the sustainable harvest of commercially valuable timber.
• By law, all harvested areas must be reforested. The timber licensee pays the cost of reforestation.
• After fire or harvest, reforestation occurs by planting or by natural regeneration (trees sprouting from naturally occurring seed or from roots).
• About 20 per cent of harvested areas are reforested naturally; the balance by planting.
• Seeds used in reforestation programs come from two sources: seed orchards, which produce “select” seed from trees with proven growth, timber and pest resistance qualities; and wild stands.
• By law, reforestation decisions (such as what species to plant) must be made by registered forest professionals. These decisions are driven based on the natural ecological conditions of the harvested area.
• Virtually all logged areas are reforested within legally set, allowable timeframes.
• British Columbia uses a mix of over 20 different native tree species in its reforestation programs.
• Data shows that reforestation is maintaining a mix of tree species in B.C., which helps maintain ecosystem processes and diverse habitats.
• No genetically-modified seedlings may be planted on public land in B.C.
• On average, more than 200 million tree seedlings are planted each year on public forest land in B.C.
• Since reforestation programs began in the 1930s, more than 6 billion trees have been planted in B.C.
• The province established Forests for Tomorrow to reforest the areas hardest hit by catastrophic wildfires and mountain pine beetle epidemic. The program reforests areas that are not being commercially harvested and is projected to plant 60 million trees by 2012/13.
• Research has contributed to evolution in silviculture practices over the past 30 years, leading to improved conservation of biological diversity, reforestation, and the volume and value of future timber supplies.
• The province’s Chief Forester has established standards to regulate the registration, storage, selection and transfer of tree seed. These standards are aimed at maintaining and enhancing the health and productivity of B.C.’s future forests.
• The province has programs in place to conserve the genetic resources of B.C.’s native tree species. These include conserving natural tree populations in parks, protected areas and provincial forests, and gene archives. The goal of these programs and the reforestation requirements is to ensure that B.C.’s forests contain genetic diversity, an important element in maintaining ecosystem resilience.

[Nawtier]

OPs post has been edited, as parts of it was naming and shaming Thais

Would not want that to happen would we ......

[IanForbes]

and here's the Provincial Government's side of the story:

FACTS ABOUT REFORESTATION IN B.C.

Oct. 1, 2009 Ministry of Forests and Range British Columbia is known around the world for its forests and forest products. Reforestation is a key element of B.C.'s sustainable forestry regime. Here are the facts about reforestation in B.C.:

• About two-thirds of British Columbia's total 95 million hectares are forested.
• British Columbia has about as much forest as it did 150 years ago. About three per cent of areas that were formerly forests have been permanently converted to other land uses, such as towns, cities or for agricultural use.
• In British Columbia, reforestation is strictly regulated so that new forests mirror the diversity of natural forests, and support the sustainable harvest of commercially valuable timber.
• By law, all harvested areas must be reforested. The timber licensee pays the cost of reforestation.
• After fire or harvest, reforestation occurs by planting or by natural regeneration (trees sprouting from naturally occurring seed or from roots).
• About 20 per cent of harvested areas are reforested naturally; the balance by planting.
• Seeds used in reforestation programs come from two sources: seed orchards, which produce "select" seed from trees with proven growth, timber and pest resistance qualities; and wild stands.
• By law, reforestation decisions (such as what species to plant) must be made by registered forest professionals. These decisions are driven based on the natural ecological conditions of the harvested area.
• Virtually all logged areas are reforested within legally set, allowable timeframes.
• British Columbia uses a mix of over 20 different native tree species in its reforestation programs.
• Data shows that reforestation is maintaining a mix of tree species in B.C., which helps maintain ecosystem processes and diverse habitats.
• No genetically-modified seedlings may be planted on public land in B.C.
• On average, more than 200 million tree seedlings are planted each year on public forest land in B.C.
• Since reforestation programs began in the 1930s, more than 6 billion trees have been planted in B.C.
• The province established Forests for Tomorrow to reforest the areas hardest hit by catastrophic wildfires and mountain pine beetle epidemic. The program reforests areas that are not being commercially harvested and is projected to plant 60 million trees by 2012/13.
• Research has contributed to evolution in silviculture practices over the past 30 years, leading to improved conservation of biological diversity, reforestation, and the volume and value of future timber supplies.
• The province's Chief Forester has established standards to regulate the registration, storage, selection and transfer of tree seed. These standards are aimed at maintaining and enhancing the health and productivity of B.C.'s future forests.
• The province has programs in place to conserve the genetic resources of B.C.'s native tree species. These include conserving natural tree populations in parks, protected areas and provincial forests, and gene archives. The goal of these programs and the reforestation requirements is to ensure that B.C.'s forests contain genetic diversity, an important element in maintaining ecosystem resilience.

That is ALWAYS a government's point of view when they've screwed the public. I WORKED for the Ministry of Forests for close to 40 years. I know how things work and what was done. There is hardly an meter of Vancouver Island that I'm not familiar with. When the Ministry of Forests handed over huge TREE FARM LICENSES (TFLs) of public lands to large, private forest companies the companies were SUPPOSED to manage the forests so there was a never ending industry on the island. They were give huge tax concessions to maintain a viable industry.

That is NOT what happened. Somewhere in the 1990s a clause was taken out of the contract which tied the land of the inperpetuity business to the owner of the TFL. That clause meant that after the companies finished raping the land they could still maintain ownership of the land... which they subsequently turned into a real estate venture, but at drastically reduced tax rates.

Sorry to change the topic of the OP.

I understand what the OP is saying, but it goes on everywhere. I see it in the city constantly. The average Thai person tosses their plastic garbage anywhere and everywhere. Every klong is full of it. I see children of what appear to be upper middle income Thais just toss their candy wrappers and fast food wrappers on the street or on the floor of a restaurant. That happens even where there are garbage pails nearby

In the case of many trees in Thailand, they are held in some degree of reverence, and are drapped in ribbons. Roadways are often diverted around trees in the city. I have hundreds of photos to prove my point.

[Nawtier]

IF...this area is a little different by way that if someone makes the right noise to the right people, something might be done....I still say might and that is better than nothing.

I would hate to see every tree of this size in this valley gone because nobody did anything until it was to late.

A road widening was stopped here recently because some people did something about it and made the right noise.

These trees are massive and need some help, so I am trying to help.

I need someone on here that may know somebody in any of these organisations that are interested enough to do something, or a foreigner that speaks good Thai to make a few calls to a number I can supply for one particular organisation.

[xen]

Just to add my 1 bahts worth but the damage and the possible demise of this tree could well be due to changed soil levels as the OP has stated but from the photos there appears to be a lot of mechanical damage to the tree, possibly from the back hoe or other earth moving implements. Together this will cause the slow demise of the tree and as the tree weakens then insect attack and/or fungal attack can occur. However you can see the hollows in the trunk and they appear to have been there for some time. There is not one cause but a combination of causes.

I have found many Thais do appreciate Nature and beauty and gardens etc but do not connect this with a stewardship of the environment . It all seems to hard . Someone else will do it . Someone else will fix the problem . Someone else will pick up the rubbish etc. And their understanding of amenity horticulture is years behind a lot of the Western world ,or even Singapore or Hong Kong. A visit to Nong Nooch in Pattaya will show that and that they need trained horticultural technicians on the ground doing the work not untrained "garden labourers". But they will catch up ,i hope.

[IanForbes]

It is already too late for the tree in question, but maybe something can be done for the others in the area. i've seen some huge trees still growing in the heart of Chiang Mai.

[MSingh]

Sad to say, but in my experience, Thais think the environment is something to exploit, not treasure.

Even sadder, I do not see any evidence that that attitude will change.

Why would it change ??

Thai's overall are simply not educated enough for it to change.

Thailand is a " developing Country " with a " developing Country mentality " in a while host of things including & especially, the environment..

Why it is called " developing " & not Third World anymore, i don't know but it basically is the new PC wording for it .

[surayu]

Is this thread about an oxymoron?

[travelmann]

OPs post has been edited, as parts of it was naming and shaming Thais

Please keep it sivilized and within Forum rules

Did you know thailand has had the strictest motorbike emission requirements in the wolrd for a while, just recently matched by those introduced in EU?

and all new diesel vehicles will within this year have emission on par with Europe, Euro IV.

Thai government is focused on environment

Wondr what theyll be like in 2-3 years when they have been modified by the owners, laws are one thing enforcement an entirely different kettle of fish.

[katabeachbum]

OPs post has been edited, as parts of it was naming and shaming Thais

Please keep it sivilized and within Forum rules

Did you know thailand has had the strictest motorbike emission requirements in the wolrd for a while, just recently matched by those introduced in EU?

and all new diesel vehicles will within this year have emission on par with Europe, Euro IV.

Thai government is focused on environment

Wondr what theyll be like in 2-3 years when they have been modified by the owners, laws are one thing enforcement an entirely different kettle of fish.

Driving Highways around Thailand, there are frequent roadblocks checking emission.

5 years old, they must be inspected every year

Not as efficient as EU, but on the other hand cars have been here only for a handful of decades

[jubby]

OPs post has been edited, as parts of it was naming and shaming Thais

Please keep it sivilized and within Forum rules

Did you know thailand has had the strictest motorbike emission requirements in the wolrd for a while, just recently matched by those introduced in EU?

and all new diesel vehicles will within this year have emission on par with Europe, Euro IV.

Thai government is focused on environment

Wondr what theyll be like in 2-3 years when they have been modified by the owners, laws are one thing enforcement an entirely different kettle of fish.

Driving Highways around Thailand, there are frequent roadblocks checking emission.

5 years old, they must be inspected every year

Not as efficient as EU, but on the other hand cars have been here only for a handful of decades

So the Buses (whats plural for Bus) and lorries probably pass these road blocks using cloaking technology like a stealth bomber or do they get a small fine !?

[Nawtier]

Why would it change ??

Thai's overall are simply not educated enough for it to change.

it is education that brings the change....continue with that attitude and nothing will change....simple.

[Nawtier]

I remember as a youngster in the car with my family back home in Oz, i was probably 5yo or so and it was considered quite ok to throw your rubbish out of the window of your car as you drove along.

Then campaigns such as 'do not litter' and 'cleanup australia' and so on came along and from the education, the entire country changed.

I also remember years ago the attitude to chopping trees down was vastly different to know.