Punish The Parents To Set An Example On Law And Order In Thailand

[wackysleet]

Unfortunately, I think there's a lot of opinions being thrown out here that have no clear basis in fact...

Opinion: the parents should be punished. Yes, but does Thailand have a law in place that provides for parental responsibility in the criminal court system? I haven't heard/seen that it does.

Opinion: the girl is a juvenile and therefore can't really be punished in the criminal system. Lots of countries have laws that allow juveniles to be tried as adults, depending on the circumstances. In a case of 9 fatalities by a 17 year old driver, I'd say there's a fair chance she'd be tried as an adult in the U.S. -- depending on the facts that emerge from the accident investigation. Does Thailand have a law that allows teenagers to be charged as adults in criminal cases?

Opinion: Punish the parents and the girl.. Yes, but what about the owner of the car she was driving? I've seen it reported to be a "friend", but I haven't seen any reference to who was the registered owner of the car. The police surely know by now...but I wonder, why no one's saying. Surely that individual had a more direct causal connection to the girl driving than her parents...unless the investigation proves some facts otherwise.

Opinion: the girl might only have to pay a 400 baht fine for driving without a license. I don't know if that penalty is accurate. But even if it is, she's also supposed to be charged with reckless driving and causing death to others. So she's not just on the hook for driving without a license.

If anyone knows Thailand's legal situation about a) parental responsibility in criminal cases, and b] charging teens as adults in serious cases, it's be good to share that factual info here.

Surely they have a law regarding Aiding and Abetting.

[slipperx]

What is the point of the law?

Surely you first have to have a society with a consensus of what is right or wrong. Elected people from the society write laws to provide a system where someone doing something wrong is held responsible. The society also employs people to enforce the law and to provide people to whom individual members can complain and have the law enforcement officers look into the matter and take action as necessary.

The degree to which the offending person does wrong or the severity of the issue if you like is supposed to be reflected by the punishment received and in some cases protect the society from further wrongs that might be committed by that person - e.g. a rapist is incarcerated to stop him raping other women. In such ways that society should be protected from harm by people doing wrong either against it's members or against the society itself. Each member of society is RESPONSIBLE for behaving in a way that the society expects or at least not breaking the laws in place. As time passes the focus of a society changes and its laws change to reflect this. What was once an offence may not always be so - that is how societies grow - sometimes into better and sometimes into worse places in my opinion.

The system of incarceration may or may not take steps to rehabilitate the offender.

In Thailand the laws are written rather loosely allowing for a wide margin of interpretation. This is so with any society but in Thailand the margins for interpretation are drawn far wider. Unfortunately the system for enforcing the law is very poor and corruption makes enforcement in many cases abrogated. This is so from the lowest level police up to the higher level judges and into the government itself which is the body making the laws. Thais in general know that they can break the law and probably get away with it - the more prominent the person the easier it is, the more money you have the easier it is. Thus the society fails to instil RESPONSIBILTY on its citizens resulting in the irresponsibility and 'don't care' attitude in relation to law enfocement and in relation to abiding by the law. Education plays it's role by leaving ithe people ambivalent and unaware of how they should really behave amongst very amny other issues that prevent a persons full development.

With the driver underage she is guilty of breaking the law and should be punished accordingly. It is not always the case, indeed rarely the case that consequential events form part of the consideration of sentencing unless those consequences were fairly likely to occur from the offence itself - the likely connectivity of the consequence.

So a judge should decide how likely the event of the girl driving without a licence would be to the actual events that occurred. If she was drunk for instance then the likliehood of accident is much higher and the sentence should be accordingly increased. However there may have been other contributory factors - I earleir read there were a couple of other cars jostling with each other that may have collided with the van casuing the accident. How to apportion responsibility is the issue affecting the sentenceing and that is what the judge is there for. You cannot prescribe law to punish someone for an accident which is just that - and I am not saying that this was just that or not. There has to be some expectation of an event occurring from an action for that to be a consideration. The law is not there for revenge.

The point here is that the whole system of law and it's enforcement here in Thailand is woefully inadequate, underfunded and abused through widespread corruption and apathy. I wish Thailand would wake up and see the damage this is causing Thai society and its individual members. Corruption in the system of protection is I think the most damaging and worst sort. I would love to see the strengthening and vigourous enforcement of laws to make the system fairer and better enforced. That would be one big factor to reduce these sort of incidents.

[Nisa]

Interesting numbers, from the thread about holiday accident deaths in Thailand over the New Years week, regarding unlicensed drivers:

At 2,533 checkpoints... about 825,000 vehicles were stopped and 100,587 traffic-law violators were charged - mostly for riding motorcycles without helmets, at 29,736 cases, followed by 28,482 cases of driving without a licence.

100.00 were charged? As in paying AND getting a receipt?

So miracles do happen?

I wondered this too in terms of how high the numbers really were. 2,500 check point and 825,000 vehicles stopped but on 100,000 cited. In one way this would sound like proper numbers BUT in Thailand they are allowed to selectively stop certain vehicles. The police have great experience in knowing if a car / driver is doing something wrong just by a visual observation (especially in the case of no helmet). So, I have to assume that near 50% of the vehicles should have been cited (4x the amount stated) and I would guess this would have to at least doubled (possibly triple) the number of those driving without a license. My guess is that at least 10% of the people on the road are unlicensed .

[shunima]

Interesting numbers, from the thread about holiday accident deaths in Thailand over the New Years week, regarding unlicensed drivers:

At 2,533 checkpoints... about 825,000 vehicles were stopped and 100,587 traffic-law violators were charged - mostly for riding motorcycles without helmets, at 29,736 cases, followed by 28,482 cases of driving without a licence.

They unlicensed drivers must be punished! Throw them in prison ! And the parents too (!!!) as they obviously failed to educate their offspring properly. Keep all of them there forever, the people of Thailand wouldn't mind because if they would get away with it (the unlicensed driving) they must be Hi-So and Hi-So people deserve this kind of treatment! See, it's so easy to make proper law work if the fine policemen do their jobs.

The law doesn't call for throwing people in jail for driving without a license and it doesn't in most places in the US either. However, driving under a suspended license that can get you some days in jail.

I really don't see throwing a 60-year old mother into jail because their 40-year old son drove unlicensed ... then again maybe you are assuming all unlicensed drivers are underage and hiso.

It has been said here that the punishment for driving w/o a license if 400 Baht. So, not sure how the policeman doing their job is going to curb hiso drivers without a license since in your mind they will use their influences and connections to call in favors to avoid paying a simple 400 baht fine.

Sorry Nisa, next time I label the post "Caution, Sarcasm!". You didn't seriously think I meant it the way it was written, didn't you?

Sorry but yes I did based on many of the posts I have read on this topic.

Oh, I apologize then, in previous threads I made it clear that I do not agree with the bashing and the witch hunt the girl and the family get. If they get all the blame then they are the scapegoats for (a) problem(s) lying long and much deeper in Thailand's society. Something has to change but punishment of single individuals won't do, it takes a lot more action on many levels. Cheers shuni

Edited January 4, 2011 by shunima

[jfchandler]

Nisa, I believe you're right in your opinion... But in the real world here, when have you ever seen that happen?

I've never seen police "impound" a vehicle here based on a traffic violation, or even demand that someone else do the driving...

I suppose it's possible, since I certainly can't claim to be everywhere.. But just knowing and seeing here how police handle (or don't handle) traffic citations, I'd say the reality is very unlikely that it happens.

Your prior post talked about 28,000 stops for unlicensed drivers... Do you really think the police seized those vehicles or demanded proof that a properly licensed driver take over instead??? Wanna make a bet?

I would think even here the law would call for the police not allowing an unlicensed driver continue on driving. In the places I am familiar, in the US, generally they will allow somebody else to come and drive the vehicle unless the driver was driving under suspension (which is a criminal offense and not traffic). I believe the police here, as in other places, do have the responsibility to stop an unlicensed driver from proceeding on after being ticketed. Just seems like common sense but then again this is Thailand.

[MaxYakov]

Clearly a fine is not going to serve any purpose as a punishment. Punishing parents is questionable as a remedy and should only be considered on a case-by-case basis. It may be more effective to make the under-aged driver spend 6 months or so attending the scene of every fatal road accident in Bangkok and make him/her clean up the mess - the parents could help too.

Agree that a fine, unless very onerous won't do it.

How about on-the-spot vehicle confiscation with retrieval after a hefty penalty if retrieval is even possible (under certain circumstances it wouldn't be).

Of course, would require new and enforced laws ... and of course the public outcry could be vociferous ...

Ahhh ... forget it!

[Nisa]

Sorry Nisa, next time I label the post "Caution, Sarcasm!". You didn't seriously think I meant it the way it was written, didn't you?

Sorry but yes I did based on many of the posts I have read on this topic.

Oh, I apologize then, in previous threads I made it clear that I do not agree with the bashing and the witch hunt the girl and the family get. If they get all the blame then they are the scapegoats for (a) problem(s) lying long and much deeper in Thailand's society. Something has to change but punishment of single individuals won't do, it takes a lot more action on many levels. Cheers shuni

No problem, I should have considered who was posting but only read and assumed it was just another bizarre ranting from one of those looking for a way to justify hanging this girl and her family high because of their perceived status in society as opposed to any any facts as we know them at this point.

[Pi Sek]

I get that the driver was underage to drive in Thailand, underage in the USA to drive on a freeway, but the age issue is of no consequence at all for me - in the UK you can go on the motorway straight after passing your test (in theory, not long after turning 17) and I know many people from rural Western backgrounds that were driving cars around their farms as young as 9 (although not on the roads of course!) and are much better drivers than a lot of folk on the roads in Thailand. Just last year New Zealand raised their minimum driving age from 15 to 16. FYI, I am older than 18.

The license issue is important, but is made less so by the facts that 90% of the driving public don't have a license in many places (not because they can't get one, but more because of the 103 Baht or whatever and the 90 minutes spent getting it) and that the Thai driving tests are not at all representative of driving ability and experience.

What about mandatory insurance? I realise that not everyone in Thailand can afford insurance, but it does mean that 3rd parties will be covered whatever happens. Anyway, if someone can't afford insurance, how are they going to pay for hospital bills and vehicle repairs if they cause an accident? It also means that more drunk accidents will not be reported otherwise by the cops in their report to save time and hassle - the insurance guy might want to see the breathalyser test result, especially if the other guy says the driver was drunk or high or whatever. The police might even make extra cash when checking for helmets, licenses and the new income stream of insurance; and they will charge more to doctor their police reports due to the added risks and higher accountability. So everyone is happy, except the guilty party of course.

Do we know yet how old the girl was anyway? I've heard 16, 17 and 18 (although the suggestion that she was 18 comes from a likely-fake driving license).

And whose fault was the accident? From all reports I've seen to date (except the OP in this thread), the minibus driver was more at fault than the underage driver. Was he on yaba? Drunk?

Anyway, back to the point - punishing the parents. Some here seem to think that it was the parents' car, but from what I understand it was a friend's car. Therefore I think it would be fairly hard to prove in court that the parents knew and approved of their daughter driving around. Even if they have said, "We know she likes to drive fast", that only proves that they have found out on a previous occasion and may well have reprimanded her as well.

And, as others have pointed out, how do you stop a 17-year-old from being naughty? It cannot be done.

[Nisa]

You are almost certainly right but I honestly have no experience with what they do here and the few times I have been involved in a stop at most it was an on the spot receipt-less small fine but always for something small like a light being out.

Maybe somebody else here has some first hand accounts but it just seems bizarre to let a person continue on their way if they don't have a license to even drive since this "should" mean there is no way to qualify they are safe to be on the road. I assume they take drunk drivers to jail here and don't just ticket them and send them on their way. Not really the same thing but similar.

Nisa, I believe you're right in your opinion... But in the real world here, when have you ever seen that happen?

I've never seen police "impound" a vehicle here based on a traffic violation, or even demand that someone else do the driving...

I suppose it's possible, since I certainly can't claim to be everywhere.. But just knowing and seeing here how police handle (or don't handle) traffic citations, I'd say the reality is very unlikely that it happens.

Your prior post talked about 28,000 stops for unlicensed drivers... Do you really think the police seized those vehicles or demanded proof that a properly licensed driver take over instead??? Wanna make a bet?

I would think even here the law would call for the police not allowing an unlicensed driver continue on driving. In the places I am familiar, in the US, generally they will allow somebody else to come and drive the vehicle unless the driver was driving under suspension (which is a criminal offense and not traffic). I believe the police here, as in other places, do have the responsibility to stop an unlicensed driver from proceeding on after being ticketed. Just seems like common sense but then again this is Thailand.

[jfchandler]

And whose fault was the accident? From all reports I've seen to date (except the OP in this thread), the minibus driver was more at fault than the underage driver. Was he on yaba? Drunk?

You might consider spending more time reading and less time opining.....

While the van driver may have played some contributory role here (the police comments on that subject have been very little).... the girl's role is pretty clear: she was unlicensed, and she was speeding and admitted speeding at the time of the accident, leaving aside the question of whether she was or wasn't using her mobile phone while driving...

And you want to make the van driver more responsible... based on what?

[jfchandler]

I agree it is "bizarre", but think about this, using a more common example.

People get ticketed/fined for riding without helmets all the time. Do those citations ever get entered into any kind of records system, so the next time that same person is stopped, the police know they're a repeat offender. Of course not. Or the second time, or 100th time and so and and so on... Does the fine get more severe once the same person has been stopped for the same thing the 10th time... Of course not... because everything except the most serious stuff is cite and go... pay and go... as you pointed out...no receipt, no record... done.

Meanwhile... and the beat goes on...

Seven people were killed, four women and three men, when a pick-up truck loaded with seafood crashed into a pedestrian bridge on Rama II road in Bang Khun Thian district on Tuesday morning.

Five of the victims died instantly and the other two passengers were thrown from the vehicle and sustained serious injuries. They were later pronounced dead

Maybe somebody else here has some first hand accounts but it just seems bizarre to let a person continue on their way if they don't have a license to even drive since this "should" mean there is no way to qualify they are safe to be on the road.

[Nisa]

I agree it is "bizarre", but think about this, using a more common example.

People get ticketed/fined for riding without helmets all the time. Do those citations ever get entered into any kind of records system, so the next time that same person is stopped, the police know they're a repeat offender. Of course not. Or the second time, or 100th time and so and and so on... Does the fine get more severe once the same person has been stopped for the same thing the 10th time... Of course not... because everything except the most serious stuff is cite and go... pay and go... as you pointed out...no receipt, no record... done.

Meanwhile... and the beat goes on...

Seven people were killed, four women and three men, when a pick-up truck loaded with seafood crashed into a pedestrian bridge on Rama II road in Bang Khun Thian district on Tuesday morning.

Five of the victims died instantly and the other two passengers were thrown from the vehicle and sustained serious injuries. They were later pronounced dead

Maybe somebody else here has some first hand accounts but it just seems bizarre to let a person continue on their way if they don't have a license to even drive since this "should" mean there is no way to qualify they are safe to be on the road.

Do the police here even check or have the ability to check a license validity when they do a stop or even check to see if the person is wanted?

[thaikahuna]

The author of this editorial most certainly, has never been involved in a like situation. Granted parents may be responsible for their children and their actions when those actions are preplanned and detrimental to society. But should accidents of this nature be approached in a manner that juvenile murder, theft rings, street children theft, etc, are? We hold the system responsible for education, or lack there of, of our students, is not education at fault in this case also?

Even the author asked if the parents were aware of her driving. There are many factors to consider prior to making judgment or where the responsibility should lie. In the case of accidents all of the factors contributing to them are seldom known to those not involved. In this case there may be only one person who knows most of the factors as she remembers them and that may be distorted due to several possibilities.

I have noticed that another accident in which 7 died, on the same day, has received little publicity on TV nor the newspapers. Is it because no so called known names were involved as well as the victims were not of the same educated social order?

Perhaps if the parents are held accountable as well as the minor child this world might not be so fuc_ked up?

[transam]

In a Thai society where it is '' OK '' for people to drive under age l don't feel that us farangs can really comment on this one tragedy. Go to any school and you will see 10 year olds driving motor bikes sometimes 4 up and a copper is controlling the traffic for them , and these bikes can kill.

IF it is allowed by the law on the street then nothing will change. Every day past my place hundreds of kids on bikes going to and from school, under age, no helmets all with the parents knowledge.

Sad for the 9 victims but what if just one died, you wouldn't have heard about it cos this type of accident happens every day.

As for her being to young to drive, well you can ride a bike that can kill at 15 so the to young theory doesn't work for me.

As for license, l have been to a Thai driving test a couple of times and it is a joke, don't even go out on the road so even if she had a license she could have been useless like most other drivers here.

[jfchandler]

I don't think anyone who's gone thru it is suggesting that the test for obtaining a Thai driver's license is particularly meaningful for driving safety...

However, having a Thai driver's license does mean one thing... It means the person has complied with the current law and is entitled to drive under the Thai legal system -- something the girl in this case wasn't entitled to do.

[canuckamuck]

The reason there is no real world road test for Thai driver license is that they haven't found anyone brave enough to be the observer.

[Pi Sek]

And whose fault was the accident? From all reports I've seen to date (except the OP in this thread), the minibus driver was more at fault than the underage driver. Was he on yaba? Drunk?

You might consider spending more time reading and less time opining.....

While the van driver may have played some contributory role here (the police comments on that subject have been very little).... the girl's role is pretty clear: she was unlicensed, and she was speeding and admitted speeding at the time of the accident, leaving aside the question of whether she was or wasn't using her mobile phone while driving...

And you want to make the van driver more responsible... based on what?

Based on the witness reports that the van driver was also speeding and cutting into other peoples' lanes!

I find it concerning that you've only commented on her speeding and having no license. As stated in my longer post above, this is uncomfortably common in this country. The aim of my post was more to highlight that this could and does happen a lot more than once a year, and yet this public lynching of the girl and her family is pretty-much unprecendented. Are her actions any more severe than those of other incidents to date? I doubt it.

What about the van driver that fell asleep at the wheel a few weeks back? He didn't have a public transport license, that made him unlicensed too - even if he did have a private license. He was speeding too. Is it only because he died that he didn't get the same treatment?

Oh and I spend plenty of time reading, thank you, possibly moreso than you given your simplified response to very little of my post. I suppose that's why I have so many questions.

[jfchandler]

In the U.S., of course, anytime the police pull over someone for a suspected offense they ask to see their driver's license and vehicle registration, and a record of that is kept as part of the citation (if one is issued). I also know in any kind of more than infraction violation, at least, the police also will use their in-car display terminals or radio to check for outstanding local and/or state warrants.

Police here clearly can and do ask to see your driver's license... But unless they're actually arresting someone for something that involves them being taken into custody and jail, I seriously doubt they do any kind of warrants check in the field. I doubt there even exists a Thailand wide (or even Bangkok wide) computer system that would easily make available records information on such things....

Do the police here even check or have the ability to check a license validity when they do a stop or even check to see if the person is wanted?

[Pi Sek]

Do the police here even check or have the ability to check a license validity when they do a stop or even check to see if the person is wanted?

No. They ask "do you have a license". If the answer is "yes", sometimes they will ask to see it - if you can't/won't show it, they just charge you 200 baht and let you go on your way. They do give receipts, although it is usually for less than they have taken. "I not include no license because then I must charge you".

The road checks don't seem like any willingness to uphold the Law, in my honest opinion - they are a vehicle for Thai policemen's self enrichment. This may sound very cynical, but years of personal experience have shown this to be the case. Unfortunately, in my judgement, the Thai police are not to be trusted under any circumstances. I am even 'friends' with a couple, and I have made this clear to them. They feel disheartened by my sentiment, adding that they're not all like that, but they understand exactly where I'm coming from.

I do have a Thai license, by the way. It was disturbingly easy to get. I needed a valid foreign (not international) license, a passport, a work permit, a nominal fee (can't remember, but peanuts) and had to wait in a line to do a virtual emergency brake test, a simple eye test to recognise colour, and a relative distance test that not everyone could do, but the officials passed everyone because they knew it was hard.

I am assuming, of course, that the whole of Thailand works in the same way as it does in the south. I am, of course, most likely wrong.

[Pi Sek]

The reason there is no real world road test for Thai driver license is that they haven't found anyone brave enough to be the observer.

Your levity is good, it relieves tension and the fear of death

- Arnie, Terminator III

[happyrobert]

While the police said they had to interrogate the surviving driver, who is 16, as well as witnesses, to find out what exactly happened, it is obvious that the young driver was involved in the accident and was probably the cause of it. She was too young and she was driving without a licence!

The "Editorial" is pathetic and premature and has found someone guilty before they have gone to trial. I expect that to happen in Mexico, where guilt is assumed under their Napoleonic Codes, but not here. For a paper to print this prior to verdict in western countries would result in a out-of-court settlement for liable.

However, it sure could confound those who say there is no "freedom of press" in Thailand.

All you posters who are screaming her guilt, don't come whining back to post when you're arrested and the same is done to you.

[jfchandler]

As the BKK Post editorial today pointed out, the police have been less than forthcoming with details or information about the details of how the accident occurred. There was some reporting of traffic expert types who apparently had seen video CCTV footage of the car and the van just prior to the accident. The interpretations of that footage, as least based on the news reports describing it, were not particularly clear or uniform.

But at best, it didn't do anything to absolve the girl of some responsibility in this...Based on the facts that have emerged thus far, I think it's pretty hard to argue the van driver bears more responsibility than the girl. But I'm not part of any lynching mob, as some have dubbed it, wrongly I think. I am, however, very interested to know and hear what the results are of the actual accident investigation, and to see if the justice system handles the case impartially and based on the facts as they are produced.

However, I do agree with the larger point that this episode is just one of hundreds or who knows how many where similar circumstances are involved, and those don't and haven't gotten the same kind of attention. That's sad, but it's a fact of life and the way the news media and Thai society operates.

The bottom line is, the girl (and any others culpable) should be held responsible under the law for what she's done, in accord with the law. But probably more importantly, the case ought to serve as a wakeup call for Thais and Thai authorities for the serious need to reform their traffic enforcement practices, so hopefully, the same thing doesn't keep happening again and again.

[ginjag]

As the BKK Post editorial today pointed out, the police have been less than forthcoming with details or information about the details of how the accident occurred. There was some reporting of traffic expert types who apparently had seen video CCTV footage of the car and the van just prior to the accident. The interpretations of that footage, as least based on the news reports describing it, were not particularly clear or uniform.

But at best, it didn't do anything to absolve the girl of some responsibility in this...Based on the facts that have emerged thus far, I think it's pretty hard to argue the van driver bears more responsibility than the girl. But I'm not part of any lynching mob, as some have dubbed it, wrongly I think. I am, however, very interested to know and hear what the results are of the actual accident investigation, and to see if the justice system handles the case impartially and based on the facts as they are produced.

However, I do agree with the larger point that this episode is just one of hundreds or who knows how many where similar circumstances are involved, and those don't and haven't gotten the same kind of attention. That's sad, but it's a fact of life and the way the news media and Thai society operates.

The bottom line is, the girl (and any others culpable) should be held responsible under the law for what she's done, in accord with the law. But probably more importantly, the case ought to serve as a wakeup call for Thais and Thai authorities for the serious need to reform their traffic enforcement practices, so hopefully, the same thing doesn't keep happening again and again.

I fully support your post here, The authorities AND police have got to get their act together, especially the corrupt police methods---quick example, my Thai friend saw on t.v. Pechaburi-police stopped a pick-up, Thai people-made the lady go to an a.t.m. demanded 30,000 bht-amount is what I was told---if not your husband will stay in jail till you cough up---can anyone pick up this story. 1 or 2 days ago.

[Prapoj]

As the BKK Post editorial today pointed out, the police have been less than forthcoming with details or information about the details of how the accident occurred. There was some reporting of traffic expert types who apparently had seen video CCTV footage of the car and the van just prior to the accident. The interpretations of that footage, as least based on the news reports describing it, were not particularly clear or uniform.

But at best, it didn't do anything to absolve the girl of some responsibility in this...Based on the facts that have emerged thus far, I think it's pretty hard to argue the van driver bears more responsibility than the girl. But I'm not part of any lynching mob, as some have dubbed it, wrongly I think. I am, however, very interested to know and hear what the results are of the actual accident investigation, and to see if the justice system handles the case impartially and based on the facts as they are produced.

However, I do agree with the larger point that this episode is just one of hundreds or who knows how many where similar circumstances are involved, and those don't and haven't gotten the same kind of attention. That's sad, but it's a fact of life and the way the news media and Thai society operates.

The bottom line is, the girl (and any others culpable) should be held responsible under the law for what she's done, in accord with the law. But probably more importantly, the case ought to serve as a wakeup call for Thais and Thai authorities for the serious need to reform their traffic enforcement practices, so hopefully, the same thing doesn't keep happening again and again.

"Based on the facts that have emerged thus far, I think it's pretty hard to argue the van driver bears more responsibility than the girl. " I respect your view. But my view is the opposite, because I also believe that there is no evident that the sedan crash into the van, a finding by a well qualified expert, and LEADER of the investigation.

[stickman]

Are you implying that the parents were unaware that their daughter was driving their car on the speedy express way? First of all, where did she get the keys from (maybe she had a spare set made up secretly)? where was she going? (her parents were in the dark about her driving their beloved car, let alone across town on this manic highway to hell that Bankok can be)??!!! and finally that she must have got into the car several times without her parents knowing (on her own) and learnt how to drive (at speed apparently)

Don't rule out that the parents may not have known. When I was still at school, one of my classmates used to take his mother's car out at night without her knowing. He and another classmate of ours would drive it around and around the block. Unfortunately he pulled out in front of a car and had a nasty accident, writing off both cars. Fortunately no-one was hurt. The mother did not know he had been taking the car without her permission.

In this situation here in Bangkok, I don't think the parents have said for the record that they had allowed her to use the car, have they? If they have, I missed that bit. Maybe they knew. Maybe they didn't. But for sure, it is possible that she had taken it without their permission.

[Nisa]

Are you implying that the parents were unaware that their daughter was driving their car on the speedy express way? First of all, where did she get the keys from (maybe she had a spare set made up secretly)? where was she going? (her parents were in the dark about her driving their beloved car, let alone across town on this manic highway to hell that Bankok can be)??!!! and finally that she must have got into the car several times without her parents knowing (on her own) and learnt how to drive (at speed apparently)

According to reports thus far ...

1) the parents didn't know she was driving and never allowed it (at least on the Hwy and at the time of the accident)

2) it was a friend's car

3) she has recently spent time in the US where it can be legal for a 16 to posses a DL and even drive without one if they are accompanied by an adult in the car..

Edited January 4, 2011 by Nisa

[scorecard]

Good editorial. The parents are guilty, they should face the music.

Really, so you don't believe that each successive government should also shoulder part if not all of the blame for this sad incident. Remember the words "prevention is better than cure" ensure for once in a Thai governments life that they actively enforce whole heartedly the laws that are already in place instead of turning a blind eye and covertly appearing to endorse the law breaking, the schools also for allowing under age kids to ride motor bikes, no helmets, 3 up and we have all seen it time after time.

The article makes a point about maturity or lack of it, what a bloody joke, the countries so called driving test is the real joke along with the so called tea money instead of the proper legal accountability to law breaking of any description, and the blatant turning of a blind eye by the police.

Parents do have moral responsibilities but children as we know often live by the fear of peer pressure and the certain lack of legal consequence, if there had been no accident, then she would have still been breaking the law and if she had been stopped fined 400 baht absolute bullshit this judiciary system here, selective in the extreme.

Quote from above:

".... Remember the words "prevention is better than cure" ensure for once in a Thai governments life that they actively enforce whole heartedly the laws that are already in place instead of turning a blind eye and covertly appearing to endorse the law breaking, the schools also for allowing under age kids to ride motor bikes, no helmets, 3 up and we have all seen it time after time. "

I can recall many years ago a Thai PM scolding the Dept., of Land Transport for it's lack of education programs regarding: the rules of the road, strategic driving techniques, more serious approaches to the issue of drivers licenses, etc etc. The PM also said that the Dept., of Land Transport held the primary responsibility for such education and should have a large unit devoted only to such activity, and the police had a secondary role for such education and were also expected to be continuously active in such education.

I can also recall that there was some small activity, then nothing., and from memory I can't today recall even one major education campaign for say the last 10 years.

Why not? Well there's probably many reasons why but one factor is the low level of capability and sincerity found in many (99%) of the politicians who end up leading the various ministries.

The bottom line, It's my belief that Thailand will continue to make little progress towards first world status until the population at large gets wise, gets angry, gets vocal, gets active, and rejects the current 'quality' of politicians. In other words a well educated, and well organized middle class (not a mob) who stand up and demand something better, propose well strucured and logical changes and ultimately they become the better 'quality' politicians, the leaders of ministries, the thought leaders, etc!

[tallthai]

dominique355 has made the point that seems to have been missed by most. Initial accident reports stated that the girl had just returned from America. It is quite possible therefore that she already has a drivers license albeit for another country. Of course this would not be valid in Thailand because of her age. I do not offer this as an excuse for her actions, just something else to consider amongs all the other factors surrounding this very sad incident.

If I'm not mistaken, in the US if you're below 18 you get a drivers permit that requires an adult to be in the car at all times when you drive. Even then you're not allowed on the Freeway.

In this case she did not have an adult in the car, plus she was on the tollway. I think this is a moot point.

However I do agree with the article from the Nation.

As an American I had a learners permit at 14 (had to be accompanied by a licensed driver when driving). After passing the written and driving test at 16 years of age was issued a drivers license which had NO restrictions. Could drive anywhere as an adult.

Bob

[Prapoj]

dominique355 has made the point that seems to have been missed by most. Initial accident reports stated that the girl had just returned from America. It is quite possible therefore that she already has a drivers license albeit for another country. Of course this would not be valid in Thailand because of her age. I do not offer this as an excuse for her actions, just something else to consider amongs all the other factors surrounding this very sad incident.

If I'm not mistaken, in the US if you're below 18 you get a drivers permit that requires an adult to be in the car at all times when you drive. Even then you're not allowed on the Freeway.

In this case she did not have an adult in the car, plus she was on the tollway. I think this is a moot point.

However I do agree with the article from the Nation.

As an American I had a learners permit at 14 (had to be accompanied by a licensed driver when driving). After passing the written and driving test at 16 years of age was issued a drivers license which had NO restrictions. Could drive anywhere as an adult.

Bob

Agree. However US road is different from Thai road, hence it requires a little more responsibility and maturity.

[transam]

dominique355 has made the point that seems to have been missed by most. Initial accident reports stated that the girl had just returned from America. It is quite possible therefore that she already has a drivers license albeit for another country. Of course this would not be valid in Thailand because of her age. I do not offer this as an excuse for her actions, just something else to consider amongs all the other factors surrounding this very sad incident.

If I'm not mistaken, in the US if you're below 18 you get a drivers permit that requires an adult to be in the car at all times when you drive. Even then you're not allowed on the Freeway.

In this case she did not have an adult in the car, plus she was on the tollway. I think this is a moot point.

However I do agree with the article from the Nation.

As an American I had a learners permit at 14 (had to be accompanied by a licensed driver when driving). After passing the written and driving test at 16 years of age was issued a drivers license which had NO restrictions. Could drive anywhere as an adult.

Bob

Yeh, imagine back in the 60's with those street 300/400 hp rides at 16. .