Frenchman Held For Raping 8-year-old Girl

[silk123]

What about the places that have the curtains that can be drawn around the cars and have special beautiful blind whores or massage girls for faces.

We all know why they are not shut down.

[Cpt_M0ney_Sh0t]

Why is it that when someone gets busted in the west, for raping kids that inevitably there is always a couple of people who jump up and say "Oh that guy is sick...He needs treatment, he needs help and rehabilitation..." No, you rehab crack heads and junkies, you kill people who rape children. I mean really, I would like to hear just one parent tell me that they would feel vindicated, that they would feel justice had been served, if the man that raped their 8 yr old son or daughter was seeking treatment so that he could suppress his urge to sodomize their children again. I gotta hand it to the Thai criminal justice system on this one, life imprisonment at a bare minimum. Anything less is an insult to the victims and those that love them.

[RamTodatry]

It is sad (the young girls) and disgusting(the bast***) at the same time.

[chgomike]

All parties envolved except for the eight year old female child are guilty of committing a wrongful act and should be punished, especially the man. But what if medical treatment was available for the treatment of aids for the mother,if this is in fact the truth as to why she rented her daughter to this man. I wonder if the treatment necessary was available for free as it is in many countries for people with hiv would this have happened?

[StateSix]

Why is it that when someone gets busted in the west, for raping kids that inevitably there is always a couple of people who jump up and say "Oh that guy is sick...He needs treatment, he needs help and rehabilitation..." No, you rehab crack heads and junkies, you kill people who rape children. I mean really, I would like to hear just one parent tell me that they would feel vindicated, that they would feel justice had been served, if the man that raped their 8 yr old son or daughter was seeking treatment so that he could suppress his urge to sodomize their children again. I gotta hand it to the Thai criminal justice system on this one, life imprisonment at a bare minimum. Anything less is an insult to the victims and those that love them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because we live in a civilised society that's why. What do you believe an effective Criminal Justice System should do. Lock up people for 23 hours a day until the end of their sentence, then release them with the same, if not worse, problems than they had before. Do you realise how much it costs to incarcerate a person? Would that money not be spent better rehabilitating that person so that they can become someone who can go and make a contribution to society? I am not saying that they shouldn't be punished, of course they should. However simply locking people up does not work. Look at the re-offending rates.

As for state sponsored murder, that is wrong. Have you never heard of miscarriages of justice? Would having an offender murdered make everything ok? Would you not rather have the reasons why that person committed such an offence understood, so that it could be controlled in the future. Understanding and recognising symptoms and triggers could allow you to treat people in the future, who maybe have not yet committed any crime, and prevent anyone else being subjected to such horrific experiences.

BTW if you want a reasoned deabte on this subject then lets do so, but do not call me one of those "rehab crack heads and junkies". It undermines your argument and your credibility when you have to resort to childish name calling.

[Cpt_M0ney_Sh0t]

All parties envolved except for the eight year old female child are guilty of committing a wrongful act and should be punished, especially the man. But what if medical treatment was available for the treatment of aids for the mother,if this is in fact the truth as to why she rented her daughter to this man. I wonder if the treatment necessary was available for free as it is in many countries for people with hiv would this have happened?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have got to be kidding me. You can't be serious...

Ok lets put ourselves in her place for just a moment….

Ok so you has AIDS, the big one, the beast, it whose name shall not be mentioned. And you will die. To complicate matters you’re broke and you can't afford the medication that will keep you alive on a slow burn until the beast finally claims your mortal shell. You sit down in your little room across the floor, over a bowl of sum tom, from your beautiful young daughter, just a child now, innocent and pure and you think to yourself, as AIDS eats away at you more and more each day, “Hmm if I let some old Frenchmen rape her a few times a week I might live long enough for her to grow up and earn even more money for me.”

&lt;deleted&gt;?!?!?

Who’s the bigger monster? AIDS, The child bearer (at this point she lost the right to call her self a mother in my opinion), or the Frenchmen?

I have 2 children, young 6 & 3, beautiful sweet, innocent kids…. A horrific slow dwindling death from AIDS horrifies me, however if the dark day where ever to come where the monster latches on to my mortal shell, I swear by everything sacred I would never endanger the best things I have ever accomplished in my life…never.

I’m a pretty Liberal, easy going, minimally judgmental kinda guy. But there are places were we, as a society, have to draw the line and say look….no excuse, period.

[taxexile]

However simply locking people up does not work. Look at the re-offending rates.

nonsense !!

if society was so civilised , then scum criminals would not be taking advantage of a weak system that favours criminality.

a burglar , thief or mugger , or someone who uses violence who is locked up for say, a year will in all probability re-offend.

a short sentence in a heated or air con cell with a tv , and the availability of regular decent meals , association with other prisoners and weekend release , as is the norm in most european gaols is hardly a punishment. and it costs so much.

lock the same person up for 10 , 15 or 20 years in a prison with harsh conditions and i doubt if they will ever re-offend. the length of the sentence is all the rehabilitation needed.

cut down on the heating and the menus and save a bit of money that can be better used improving the hospitals or the schools of the country.

make the prisons as harsh as possible , nobody forces people into prison , its a choice you make to commit crime and go to prison or to stay within the law and enjoy your freedom.

nobody will risk another 10 year sentence in a freezing prison, but they will risk a 6 month easy stretch.

if they are off the streets then they are not re-offending , in other words prison works , and more importantly , the victims are placated and can sleep easily.

Edited August 26, 2005 by taxexile

[kat]

until the thai police force is completely reformed , re trained and professionalised from the top to the bottom ,then cases like this will continue to occur.

until thais are educated to have some sense of public responsibility as opposed to just closing their eyes to what goes on around them , then cases like this will continue to occur.

so long as the police , high ranking officials , the judiciary and the lawbreakers are joined at the hip in true siamese fashion then this country will always be a sleazy corrupt third world backwater where cases like this will continue to occur.

corruption is the root of the problem , and anyone who has paid off an official , at any level , be it to avoid a speeding ticket , to smooth over a transaction at a government dept , or a barowner who has greased a brownshirts palm and given him a free drink is as much to blame as anybody else for the perpetration of the disgusting moral decay of the police force and offialdom here.

when people stop paying , then corruption can no longer exist.

when the police do their job properly then cases such as the above will become rarer and rarer.

its ridiculous to imagine that this woman has been pimping out her daughter without the knowledge of many people around her.

this is thailand , the best place on earth according to so many posters in this and other forums.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I couldn't of stated it any better myself; well done.

WhiteShiva

What if the law is not doing enough to protect children?  Should we  just ignore, turn a blind eye?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nicker - I don't have all the answers. But if we don't believe the law is right, we should try to change the law. In Thailand, as in most other countries, the law is clear - pedophilia is a serious offence. The problem here (as I see it) is lax and selective enforcement of the law, corruption (you can often buy your way out of trouble), and a "mai pen rai" attitude of many people. As I mentioned in another thread on the subject, I also believe one trouble here is that it is still not "kosher" to talk about issues like child abuse and incest. There does not seem to be any public debate on the subject, no investigative journalism, etc. Hence many people are probably of the impressison that it is not a very common occurance. In addition, the victims will often feel guilt over what has happened, and be afraid or shy to ask for help. However, as I said, in Thailand it sadly appears to be a "non-issue".

I think what we can do immidiately is to tell our kids about "bad people", not to go with strangers, etc. And also to tell them that if somebody does something to them they don't like, they should inform you as a parent.

What else can we do? Anyone?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The problem is not just lax enforcement and regulations, but at the very root of Thai society itself - culture. This is a cyclical issue that also the same root of every other problem. Before I get slammed for stating the inevitable truth, I hope you have read and thought extensively about Thai history, culture, the sex trade in Asia, and beyond - you know - the Thai smile.

Basically, the idea of families and especially girl children as property goes way back and has not really changed, only adapted for some (mainly the wealthy) in different ways. And as much as the more charitable would like to believe that this is primarily a poverty issue, well, I'll leave you to dream on in la la land.

people (thais ) are reluctant to get involved here because the law is not on their side. the law is not on their side because the law can be bought.

a young girl being delivered to a farangs apartment in pattaya should have rung warning bells to the local people who were around .... the drivers , the duty guard , the cleaner , the som tam woman etc.

but to those people , it might have been a policeman who was doing the delivering , the young girl might have been "the property" of  people with influence and no thai would want to be the one to interfere if that was the case. the recriminations would be a beating or worse.

here , you just dont get involved because you dont know what you might be getting involved in.

you might very well be reporting a crime , but you might be reporting a crime that is being carried out with the full knowledge of the police , in which case the law is definately not on your side and you are in for trouble.

i feel that corruption is at the root of it all , but  now that the crime has been uncovered by the small task force dedicated to such offences , will there be any kind of investigation into police procedures to try and figure out why it had gone undetected previously , will the run of the mill sleazoid cops in their raybans be moved from useless roadblocks taking 100 baht from motorcyclists and cars and be employed in a more watchful and useful role in the community. ???

dream on.

they will continue to shakedown the long suffering public for chump change , because the evil is so ingrained and long standing and goes right to the top and nobody has come along yet who can change it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, there is an entrenched belief in Asian culture about "non-intervention" at every facet of society. Furthermore, it is a strong taboo to intervene in a family matter, especially if it involves fathers and brothers. In this case it was a mother, but she is also seen as owning her daughter and recouping a "debt".

Farang's duty??? Franags should?? what's all about this farnags farangs? why can't we be normal human beings? why do we always have to divide ourselves?

this division is one of the reasons us humans so pathetic things. The whole of the european community enslaved the asians and africans and treated thwm with the worst possible ways just because of this difference where they thought that they were superior than others.

pity after all this you still can't figure out why all this happenes in this world. Its not a case where a farang molested a thai girl child. Its a case of a man molesting a girl child.

taxexile as a farang you have a duty to the children.

Farangs have a duty to recognise the downfalls of the country.

Farangs could and should be protecting the children.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, but it's also a pity that you haven't figured out that Asians and Africans have also commited grievous harm to each other as well. Your argument is rather simplistic, half-baked, and an unnecessary tangent from this important topic.

Bella

Red modelling agency in Thailand

Not Elitle supermodel agency of Thailand ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you are trying to get a date with a supermodel, why don't you ######ing subscribe to dream-on anonymous and find a thread over there?

Edited August 26, 2005 by kat

[dr_Pat_Pong]

First try him in a court of law not a court of internet chat rooms.  Establish if he really did it first.  I had to laugh at some of my friends who were saying that Whacko Jacko would have a 1 day trial and then be incarcerated FOREVER.  He beat all the charges so he is Not Guilty by law.   JD

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey, stuttering john, they found photos of frenchie enjoying himself. Did you read?

Death, painful and slow.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not tough enough I reckon. A slow barbeque of his frog self is my suggestion. Yes ... I'd light the fire.

[Cpt_M0ney_Sh0t]

Why is it that when someone gets busted in the west, for raping kids that inevitably there is always a couple of people who jump up and say "Oh that guy is sick...He needs treatment, he needs help and rehabilitation..." No, you rehab crack heads and junkies, you kill people who rape children. I mean really, I would like to hear just one parent tell me that they would feel vindicated, that they would feel justice had been served, if the man that raped their 8 yr old son or daughter was seeking treatment so that he could suppress his urge to sodomize their children again. I gotta hand it to the Thai criminal justice system on this one, life imprisonment at a bare minimum. Anything less is an insult to the victims and those that love them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because we live in a civilised society that's why. What do you believe an effective Criminal Justice System should do. Lock up people for 23 hours a day until the end of their sentence, then release them with the same, if not worse, problems than they had before. Do you realise how much it costs to incarcerate a person? Would that money not be spent better rehabilitating that person so that they can become someone who can go and make a contribution to society? I am not saying that they shouldn't be punished, of course they should. However simply locking people up does not work. Look at the re-offending rates.

As for state sponsored murder, that is wrong. Have you never heard of miscarriages of justice? Would having an offender murdered make everything ok? Would you not rather have the reasons why that person committed such an offence understood, so that it could be controlled in the future. Understanding and recognising symptoms and triggers could allow you to treat people in the future, who maybe have not yet committed any crime, and prevent anyone else being subjected to such horrific experiences.

BTW if you want a reasoned deabte on this subject then lets do so, but do not call me one of those "rehab crack heads and junkies". It undermines your argument and your credibility when you have to resort to childish name calling.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok, first of all I did not call you a crack head or a junkie. I simply stated that those are some of the people who need and would benefit from rehab.

Secondly, I’m a Black American, with a strong sense of culture and knowledge of our history. So YES trust me I am fully aware of how painful miscarried justice can be. However this is really a different matter and it can easily get away from the topic at hand witch is the atrocity of child rape and suitable punishment.

In these days and times we no longer have lions. In a heard of zebra the slow, old, and injured that lag behind get snapped up by the lions before they can bread their weakness into the heard. Natural Selection, man has evolved beyond this, yet the function is still a valid and needed one.

Rapists, child molesters, serial murders, and terrorists all gotta go. Bottom line. Will there be miscarried justice, will innocent people be killed in an effort to restructure society. Sadly yes, however their deaths will not be in vain if instead of focusing on rehab for scum, we focus on curing the problems that cause miscarried justice. The countries may be different, but the underling reasons are usually the same, usually simple things like differences in race, class, or religion. Address these with the same vigor that these bleeding hearts use to “cure” scum and the society will prosper as a whole.

[petra_bkk]

undefined Sorry to hear that but as the little girl has got a bad mother...but I think as we still have bad people everywhere in Thailand...we can do not much ..poor the girl and hope that she won't get any illness...petra_bkk.

[StateSix]

However simply locking people up does not work. Look at the re-offending rates.

nonsense !!

if society was so civilised , then scum criminals would not be taking advantage of a weak system that favours criminality.

a burglar , thief or mugger , or someone who uses violence who is locked up for say, a year will in all probability re-offend.

a short sentence in a heated or air con cell with a tv , and the availability of regular decent meals , association with other prisoners and weekend release , as is the norm in most european gaols is hardly a punishment. and it costs so much.

lock the same person up for 10 , 15 or 20 years in a prison with harsh conditions and i doubt if they will ever re-offend. the length of the sentence is all the rehabilitation needed.

cut down on the heating and the menus and save a bit of money that can be better used improving the hospitals or the schools of the country.

make the prisons as harsh as possible , nobody forces people into prison , its a choice you make to commit crime and go to prison or to stay within the law and enjoy your freedom.

nobody will risk another 10 year sentence in a freezing prison, but they will risk a 6 month easy stretch.

if they are off the streets then they are not re-offending , in other words prison works , and more importantly , the victims are placated and can sleep easily.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know where you are coming from, but if this is the case why are there still crimes committed in Thailand, where punishments are much more severe than many Western countries. Why do people still continue to steal in certain Middle Eastern countries where they know they stand a good chance of getting their hands cut off?

BTW weekend release is NOT the norm in UK prisons, unless you are being prepared for release from a substantial sentence. The rest of the time you are locked up in overcrowded cells, the vast majority of which do not have tvs in them. Association with other prisoners can be very dangerous for your health. Bullying is rife in UK prisons. Try 6 months in Strangeways or Wandsworth and tell me it is an easy stretch.

You claim it is your choice to commit a crime and go to prison. So you have never broken the law? That is a very simplistic view. A high percentage of crime is caused by poverty or drugs. Should we not be looking at the root causes of crime? Surely preventing crime is better than only punishing the offenders?

Do you honestly believe that someone who has been a heroin addict since the age of 16, who has no formal qualifications or training, and so little chance of a job, who breaks into an unoccupied house and steals some items, deserves to be locked up for the next 10, 15 or 20 years in harsh conditions. Despite it breaching the Human Rights Act, it does not solve the root causes of the problem and does nothing to address what will happen when he leaves prison. Are we going to put him on a drug dependence program whilst inside, help him get educated or learn a skill? Or are we going to write him off?

I do agree with parts of what you say. The Criminal Justice System is skewed a little too much in favour of the criminal at the moment. It is extremely hard to get anyone into court, unless they are virtually caught red handed, and when you do they get probation or a suspended sentence. Conditions need to be attached, such as drug referral orders, community sentences or educational/vocational skills courses.

[Bryan in Isaan]

edit - Oh yeah, almost forgot this - Somchai? Another Somchai arrested for very serious crimes? What is it about people with that name? Seems like every second, murderer, rapist, procurer, pimp, thug, trafficker, and corrupt cop or politician's son is called Somchai ......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Apologies if this comment has already been made in this and the other similar threads.

I agree with the posts talking about the creative punishments, etc.. for these sick farangs and the Thai families pimping out their kids. There is no punishment too painful for people like them, but one thing still makes me angry.

I know of a "somchai" up here in a village in NE Thailand who has been doing the same kind of things to little girls around the same age. He has been round and round with the police and the families of the victims already. Yet I have still not seen the news report in BKK post, TheNation, Thaivisa.com or anywhere else and last I heard he is still free after almost a year. Neither do I see many other such "somchais" in the news, yet out here in the villages they are very common. I hope the Thai government, families, police begin to flush these creeps out and put them to shame, just as they do with the foreigners.

There. Said my piece.

Bryan

[Cpt_M0ney_Sh0t]

"I know where you are coming from, but if this is the case why are there still crimes committed in Thailand, where punishments are much more severe than many Western countries. Why do people still continue to steal in certain Middle Eastern countries where they know they stand a good chance of getting their hands cut off?"

You make a good point State, however you fail to adress it in it's entirety. Yes pepole still steal and commit crimes in counties with stern laws. However the number of such crimes per captia is dramticaly decreaced. I rember living in Kuwait a few years back and there was a similar incident, where a young girl was raped and killed by some Saudis. Old men and women couldn't even rember when the last time something like that happened. And ofcourse all 6 men and 1 woman who had a hand in it where all killed.

So yeah pepole still steal in Saudi but not enough to make shop owners lock their doors when they go to pray.

It's all about the numbers and the greater good.

[sriracha john]

Mr. Jean Claude Chamoux

[bggg]

Rehabilitation works for some crimes, for others it does not. There are volumes of evidence to show that there is no rehabilitating sex criminals, particularly child sex criminals. Poverty has absolutely nothing to do with the perpetrators side of this so PLEASE get off that soap box.

Kat I agree whole-heartedly with your comments about the culture not changing and children being property as well as not intervening in family issues. I too am sure many people were aware of what was going on. I had a friend who was in Pattaya and saw an older man take a young girl who looked about 10 into his room, he heard her scream, he went to the hotel desk and told them to call the police, their reaction was her mother arranged it so it was okay with her, and his wife was sitting outside the room aware so it was no problem for anyone, never mind!

I am a mother of 3 daughters 1 grown and 2 still fairly young. If you have photographic evidence…..cut his ###### off shove it down his throat and shoot the b…..d! End of story. He can not be rehabilitated! Don’t let him hurt another little child.

[taxexile]

I know where you are coming from, but if this is the case why are there still crimes committed in Thailand, where punishments are much more severe than many Western countries. Why do people still continue to steal in certain Middle Eastern countries where they know they stand a good chance of getting their hands cut off?

i dont know the answer to that.

there will always be those who commit crimes , irrespective of the sentences that they can expect , but for the majority , i believe that lax sentencing and the onus put on the police to gather masses of irrefutable evidence ( especially in europe and the usa) before taking the case to court just makes it easier for criminals to have a go and expect to get away with it.

Do you honestly believe that someone who has been a heroin addict since the age of 16, who has no formal qualifications or training, and so little chance of a job, who breaks into an unoccupied house and steals some items, deserves to be locked up for the next 10, 15 or 20 years in harsh conditions. Despite it breaching the Human Rights Act, it does not solve the root causes of the problem and does nothing to address what will happen when he leaves prison. Are we going to put him on a drug dependence program whilst inside, help him get educated or learn a skill? Or are we going to write him off?

personally i think that someone who breaks into an unoccupied house and steals items that are of value to the owner , items that the owner has had to work honestly to obtain , should be locked up in harsh conditions , and when the thief has suffered punishment and had time to dwell on the errors of his ways then he may think twice before risking it again.

and i maintain that for as long as he is locked up , he is not stealing.

upon incarceration ( a lovely word) clean them of their drug habits and

prior to release , it goes without saying that skills training should be mandatory , but the interim period should be a severe punishment , work them until they drop.

please dont quote that bucket of babble , the human rights act , to me.

what about the human rights of the majority of the population , those who work honestly for a living and contribute to society , to be protected from thieves , burglars and muggers , protected from those who come into our homes at night with knives and baseball bats , knowing full well that if the houseowner harms that burglar , it will be the houseowner up in court , and dont tell me it doesnt happen.

the honest amongst us have human rights too.

and so long as thieves are behind bars , then the majority are safe.

every heroin user knows full well what may lie down the road for them before they take that first hit. again , its a question of actions and their consequences.

an awful lot of western poverty is caused by nothing more than laziness and a reliance on the state to provide , and should the state not provide , then they will just take it for themselves.

laziness at school and laziness in the workplace , should they ever actually get as far as finding a workplace.

i'm sorry , but i have no pity on most of them. yes there may be a few who as a result of an unfortunate upbringing find themselves unable to exist in society , and for those few ,help and re hab. should be given.

but for most , they are just "badduns" , too lazy to integrate into society and "do the right things"

society must be protected from them and the only way is to keep them out of society, probation and community work is a joke to most offenders , and they are committing crime during those periods.

hit them and hit them harder is the only way.

criminals are bullies and cowards by nature and a taste of their own medicine can do nothing but good.

but if i ever do commit a heinous crime , i hope i come up against you as the judge , i'll get a cushy stretch for sure.

[Ijustwannateach]

There are some pedophiles out there who are compulsive (one must assume there are many more who are able to control themselves). A number of these know they have a problem but (being compulsive) cannot do anything about it. A fair and rich society would find some place and occupation for the ones who admitted their problem to live and work without stigma (remember, they're sick, and this group would have admitted their problem and asked for help). Unfortunately, very few societies are fair and rich.

"Steven"

[StateSix]

Ok, first of all I did not call you a crack head or a junkie. I simply stated that those are some of the people who need and would benefit from rehab.

Secondly, I’m a Black American, with a strong sense of culture and knowledge of our history. So YES trust me I am fully aware of how painful miscarried justice can be. However this is really a different matter and it can easily get away from the topic at hand witch is the atrocity of child rape and suitable punishment.

In these days and times we no longer have lions. In a heard of zebra the slow, old, and injured that lag behind get snapped up by the lions before they can bread their weakness into the heard. Natural Selection, man has evolved beyond this, yet the function is still a valid and needed one.

Rapists, child molesters, serial murders, and terrorists all gotta go. Bottom line. Will there be miscarried justice, will innocent people be killed in an effort to restructure society. Sadly yes, however their deaths will not be in vain if instead of focusing on rehab for scum, we focus on curing the problems that cause miscarried justice. The countries may be different, but the underling reasons are usually the same, usually simple things like differences in race, class, or religion. Address these with the same vigor that these bleeding hearts use to “cure” scum and the society will prosper as a whole.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Apologies about the crackhead/junkie line. I completely misread it and didnt see the comma after no. Ooops.

However the analogy about the Zebras is not appropriate. How do old or injured zebras breed this 'weakness' into their children? Old or injured zebras have probably already bred. How do you breed a broken leg into your children???

Secondly, where do you draw the line on this 'natural selection', which by the way is hardly 'natural' as it is a decision made by man? Who is next to be executed? It is the thin end of the wedge. The next call will be for death sentences for muggers, burglars and thieves. However these can only apply once the crime has been committed so how will it be bred out of the human race. They may already have children. Sure they may not be able to breed anymore, but that is equally the cae when they are imprisoned. Studies may find symptoms or triggers which help you identify possible offenders and prevent them offending.

As an American do you not already have the death sentence available for the crimes you listed, certainly, murder and terrorism. I am unsure about rape or child abuse.

When they strap your son (if you have one) into the electric chair and they murder him, then later find out he was innocent, you will say, mai pen rai, it was for the good of society, his death was not in vain.

I do agree with you that the underlying problems of miscarriages of justice, along with crime and poverty need to be addressed. Then we can help form a better society.

[Jai Dee]

so long as the police , high ranking officials , the judiciary and the lawbreakers are joined at the hip in true siamese fashion then this country will always be a sleazy corrupt third world backwater where cases like this will continue to occur.

corruption is the root of the problem , and anyone who has paid off an official , at any level , be it to avoid a speeding ticket , to smooth over a transaction at a government dept , or a barowner who has greased a brownshirts palm and given him a free drink is as much to blame as anybody else for the perpetration of the disgusting moral decay of the police force and offialdom here.

I actually had a long chat with my missus last night on this very subject.

You are absolutely correct.

And sadly, it is not likely to change.

[Zoltan]

Where is the good news?

[StateSix]

tax exile

I certainly agree with you that the amount of paperwork a police officer has to collate when taking an offender to court is huge. Once arrested all relevant evidence has to be disclosed to the solicitor. If not the inetrview consists of 'no comment' all the way through. If you do disclose the evidence the suspect can cook up a story to explain why , for example, his fingerprints were in the stolen vehicle. It is ridiculous. Then the Crown Prosecution Service wont take the case to court unless there is a good chance of success.

I also agree with your views on incarceration. Locking someone up in a cell for 23 hours a day is a waste. Get them working and try to rehabilitate. It will certainly not work for everyone, but we have to try.

I also agree with you about the Human Rights Act. It is a good idea in principle but is too easily abused and twisted for reasons it was never intended. However it is an integral part of British law now and whether you agree with it or not, it is here to stay for the forseeable future. BTW you are allowed to use reasonable force to defend your property/self. That does not mean you can take a baseball bat to his head when he is on the floor. I have dealt with cases where someone has defended their property, and many times they do get locked up. That is because an allegation is made and there's some sort of evidence to back it up. Most times, after a quick interview with the homeowner, and a medical report on the burglar, its written off as No Further Action. However if a complaint is made the police are duty bound to investigate.

A lot of problems with crime do come down to a selfish, look after number 1 attitude. Look at the current Chav phenomenon in the UK. Lazy, selfish, scum that is all. I cant pretend that I know the answer to it all, but it is certainly something that needs addressing.

Sitting around in a prison cell is not really a deterrent to many criminals. However if they knew that they would be forced to attend classes and do a hard days work, then they might think twice. Sentences should be conditional on completing things to a satisfactory level. ie 3 years if you succesfully complete certain conditions, 5 years if you dont.

You are right about the bullying coward remark though. When the police are finally allowed to take off the kid gloves and actively target career criminals they all start whinging about how unfair it is. Never mind the harrassment they cause their neighbours

Believe me, despite my lefty postings on here, you would not get a cushy sentence from me. I would ensure that any time inside is productive and, hopefully, beneficial to you and society as a whole. If only.......

[wolf5370]

Kat, couldn't agree more with your comments - paraphrased my thoughts exactly!

Some threads stated that the mother was an ex-BG. I never read this, I read "Assistant Cook" - unless they meant "Baking Girl"

It is not surprising perhaps, though frustrating, that we only seem to see this when a foreigner is involved. Sometimes just on speculation or accusation from a disgruntled ex etc (remember the one-legged-German accused of paying for sex with 'under age'

University girls, some 200 plus, whilst infected with Aids - no test (he refused) and no students coming forward, but press go to town because his ex-wife makes an accusation).

Where my in-laws used to live (on a Navy base in BKK), a neighbour was arrested by the police when it was discovered he had given his 12 y/o daughter AIDS. He used to get drunk and sleep with prostitutes almost nightly. When he ran out of money for prostitutes, he would use his wife or daughter as the 'desire' took him.

He was only found out when the daughter was diagnosed with AIDS and asked if she was sexually active. The Navy base is a small community, and everyone knew the guy liked booze and babes. However, everyone was surprised of the revelation of his 'family activities'. The Navy allowed the mother and girl to keep the flat - which I thought was great given the husband was no longer serving and thus lost entitlement to it - neighbours helped support the mother and girl too. They came to my wedding.

All this, yet nothing in the papers.

People get confused between crimes like car theft and rape/murder. I think there is an obvious divide. It blurs near violent crimes like mugging perhaps, but its still an intent thing to me. I think they should be treated differently in law too.

I think arrested parties should be protected from publicity until the case against them is proved for a start. The case can be reported, pseudonyms can be given for names as they are for child defendant and rape case victims in the UK.

I think minor crimes should have an iteration multiplier and the Judge should set the minimum and maximum time for a custodial sentence. For re-offences the iteration goes up, so the minimum/maximum sentence is doubled etc.

I think alcohol and drug related crimes while the user is under the influence because of addiction (not because they got p*ssed on Saturday afternoon) is a case of mental incapacity and sentence should still be set, but served at a secure clinic or psychiatric hospital. If they are 'cured' before the sentence is complete, they return to court before the same judge to decide whether they should be freed or continue their sentence in prison - based on medical reports, previous offences and good old common sense.

Serious violent crime where the intent is to kill, maim, to serious injury - including rape - should always be a custodial sentence with min/max terms in the first (and hopefully only) instance and life (true life) on the second instance. Special secure clinics are required for peodos and rapists and some killers. Others go straight to maximum security prison.

I don't think the sentences should be served in the same prisons for the two classes of prisoners above. I think all prisoners should work a five/six day week for minimum wages and should be allowed to buy legal and safe goodies from inside via a purser. Work should be physical were possible and light manual where not. It should provide a service which can help pay for their incarceration.

There should be no conjugal (spelling?) visits and day release only towards the end of a long term sentence (and for funerals of close family members where valid and under guard).

Just my few satangs

[kat]

Kat, couldn't agree more with your comments - paraphrased my thoughts exactly!

Some threads stated that the mother was an ex-BG. I never read this, I read "Assistant Cook" - unless they meant "Baking Girl" 

It is not surprising perhaps, though frustrating, that we only seem to see this when a foreigner is involved. Sometimes just on speculation or accusation from a disgruntled ex etc (remember the one-legged-German accused of paying for sex with 'under age'

University girls, some 200 plus, whilst infected with Aids - no test (he refused) and no students coming forward, but press go to town because his ex-wife makes an accusation).

Where my in-laws used to live (on a Navy base in BKK), a neighbour was arrested by the police when it was discovered he had given his 12 y/o daughter AIDS. He used to get drunk and sleep with prostitutes almost nightly. When he ran out of money for prostitutes, he would use his wife or daughter as the 'desire' took him.

He was only found out when the daughter was diagnosed with AIDS and asked if she was sexually active. The Navy base is a small community, and everyone knew the guy liked booze and babes. However, everyone was surprised of the revelation of his 'family activities'. The Navy allowed the mother and girl to keep the flat - which I thought was great given the husband was no longer serving and thus lost entitlement to it - neighbours helped support the mother and girl too. They came to my wedding.

All this, yet nothing in the papers.

...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, and the above comments in bold are so common, I don't think they report it as a crime because the extent would be overwhelming. I also agree with your comments Wolf - no big surpirse.

"I know where you are coming from, but if this is the case why are there still crimes committed in Thailand, where punishments are much more severe than many Western countries. Why do people still continue to steal in certain Middle Eastern countries where they know they stand a good chance of getting their hands cut off?"

You make a good point State, however you fail to adress it in it's entirety. Yes pepole still steal and commit crimes in counties with stern laws. However the number of such crimes per captia is dramticaly decreaced. I rember living in Kuwait a few years back and there was a similar incident, where a young girl was raped and killed by some Saudis. Old men and women couldn't even rember when the last time something like that happened. And ofcourse all 6 men and 1 woman who had a hand in it where all killed.

So yeah pepole still steal in Saudi but not enough to make shop owners lock their doors when they go to pray.

It's all about the numbers and the greater good.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Money, IMHO, I think your logic is flawed here. The number of "such crimes is dramtically decreased" because the rate of reporting such crimes is extremely low. We are talking about societies in which women are imprisioned if not tortued or murdered for being raped; yes, I said women are imprisioned, tortured, or MURDERED for the actions of their rapist. Even at the least extreme, women are blamed for the actions of men. In the case of the Saudis, there could have been other variables, such as the fact that they were Saudis, or the daughter in question was from an influential family. Either way, using the examples of Saudi ARabia and Kuwait in cases of crimes against women is erroneous.

And in terms of the utilitarian argument of the "greater good": The problem with cost/benefit analyses when it comes to the greater societal good is that the person "pulling the trigger" or making the decision never seems to be impacted directly. Cost/benefit analyses are always about someone else's cost to the benefit and privilege of someone else. Tell me something: Who should make that decision?

And in terms of natural selection: How do you explain the history of the United States and Europe according to this theory?

Edited August 26, 2005 by kat

[JanWerner]

Hope they gonna lock up that sick ###### for live!!!!!!!!

[JanWerner]

Sick bastard, they should put the mother######er on the chair!!!!

Mr. Jean Claude Chamoux

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Cpt_M0ney_Sh0t]

Money, IMHO, I think your logic is flawed here. The number of "such crimes is dramtically decreased" because the rate of reporting such crimes is extremely low. We are talking about societies in which women are imprisioned if not tortued or murdered for being raped; yes, I said women are imprisioned, tortured, or MURDERED for the actions of their rapist. Even at the least extreme, women are blamed for the actions of men. In the case of the Saudis, there could have been other variables, such as the fact that they were Saudis, or the daughter in question was from an influential family. Either way, using the examples of Saudi ARabia and Kuwait in cases of crimes against women is erroneous.

And in terms of the utilitarian argument of the "greater good": The problem with cost/benefit analyses when it comes to the greater societal good is that the person "pulling the trigger" or making the decision never seems to be impacted directly. Cost/benefit analyses are always about someone else's cost to the benefit and privilege of someone else. Tell me something: Who should make that decision?

And in terms of natural selection: How do you explain the history of the United States and Europe according to this theory?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok, Lets keep it simple without getting into details of life in the Middle East for men and women. I will speak on what I have experienced first hand in Kuwait and having befriended and worked with many Arabs from varying countries. Women in Kuwait and other upscale Arab countries (not Yemen or Iraq) do not have it NEARLY as bad as what western zionist media would portray it. I was married to a Kuwaiti woman and I saw first hand how her family lived. You think the men there control everything. That’s bullcrap they are some of the softest men I have ever seen when it comes to their women especially their mothers. Women run things there from behind the veil. Don't think that just because their not on that ballot that they don't control what goes on in their homes and in their lives. And the Laws in many countries there are actually slanted in their favor. Young Kuwaiti men of means and wealth often live in horror of some of these women as the law there states that if a man has sex with a woman out of wedlock and she goes to the police he either has to marry her or go to jail for 7 years!

But anyway that’s a whole nother topic, as well as with natural selection. Point with that is we no longer have it. And thus we should handle the function that the lion used to do for us. Let’s purge society of child rapists and serial murders by imposing the death penalty for them. It's not about playing god; it's about making the world safer for our generations to come. For who will if not us?

And as for pulling the trigger... chances are I would be on the crap end of that stick because I am black, and statistically we are 6 times more likely to receive the death penalty than whites for the same crime. But at the end of the day that’s racism, a mental/social stigma that is behind the times and needs to be corrected. The Law should be visionary and hold man to a greater good that we should strive to achieve. Not lag behind to cater to our weakness.

Hence our great constitution, visionary, but had they created a document to cater to their current level of social development we would have never come this far.

[Artisan]

First try him in a court of law not a court of internet chat rooms.  Establish if he really did it first.  I had to laugh at some of my friends who were saying that Whacko Jacko would have a 1 day trial and then be incarcerated FOREVER.  He beat all the charges so he is Not Guilty by law.  JD

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey, stuttering john, they found photos of frenchie enjoying himself. Did you read?

Death, painful and slow.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not tough enough I reckon. A slow barbeque of his frog self is my suggestion. Yes ... I'd light the fire.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK Dr.Pat, but pleeeeease can I douse the frog with petrol first before you light his genitals?

[Scott]

Everyone (except the victim--the 8 yr old girl) needs to be both incarcerated and treated. One is not effective without the other.

For the man, he probably needs a nice long stretch in the BKK Hilton, long enough for his sexual urges to diminish and that won't happen until sometime in the 70-80's at which time they aren't gone, but his ability to act on them will be diminished. Treatment can be chemical castration (some sex-offenders have opted for medical castration), as well as determining the motive--pedophilia, rape as is defined by power and control or a combination. He will always need to be kept away from children.

The mother needs to be locked away too. She, however, is probably also a victim. When was she first "sold"--my guess is that somewhere around the age of her daughter, she was abused and since she lived through it, somehow seems that is the age for her daughter to begin "earning her keep."

For the victim, I hate to pessimistic, but this little girl has now made the dangerous association between sex and money. She doesn't seem to have experienced much concern, love or parenting. That, unfortunately, is very difficult to ever give back to a child.

[bob/nyc]

First try him in a court of law not a court of internet chat rooms.  Establish if he really did it first.  I had to laugh at some of my friends who were saying that Whacko Jacko would have a 1 day trial and then be incarcerated FOREVER.  He beat all the charges so he is Not Guilty by law.  JD

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

JD................wake up, a court of law.............OJ Simpson is Not Guilty, Robert Bake is Not Guilty, P. Ditty is Not Guilty (shooting in NYC), plus a host of Wall Street CEO's, you want the rest of this girls life to rest on corrupt jurors. Jurors have said they were getting tired so they just all agreed to end the deliberations. You want that in this case.