Thai Girl Involved In Tragic Tollway Accident Says That She Is Sorry

[jonclark]

You lot are a sad bunch. You all cry for justice, but are ready to pass your own judgement on this girl before she has been properly convicted.

And before you all get on your high horses about me defending her, I'm not..I'm quite happy for a court to decide whether she is guilty or not after reviewing all the facts and evidence (and not from reading newspaper reports like the wannabe judges on this forum)

Listen to yourselves almost baying for blood.. "lock her up, throw away the key" you say.. thank god you are not part of the legal system in any country.

This whole thing is a tradgedy.. for all involved.

totster

Thank you for making a stand here. May I join you?

People pass their own judgment, because experience has taught most of use that legal judgment is passed as easily as money is passed under the table and justice is never seen to be done.

Remember the Benz driver who killed half a dozen people (or so) at the bus stop? The comments here are not people passing judgement, but sheer frustration at the squirming of rich pricks who break the law,, spin the story and play the legal system to suit them, (an under aged, unlicensed driver should not be driving - fairly sure the invalidates the insurance as well, if it doesn't can someone tell me the insurer so i can take out a policy and let my 12 year old drive me to work in the morning), and receive a slap on the wrist while grieving mother and fathers bury their sons and daughters.

It is easy to take the moral high ground and wait for the legal system to pass judgment. Indeed that is how the powerful want people to think, let the legal system slowly grind on, delay the court hearing, wait for the story to disappear from the headlines, wait for a new tragedy to happen, let the grief pass, offer some money to the parent of the victims, extend and delay again, increase the costs, offer money again, money accepted. Case closed. Little miss 16 year old, now 18 goes and starts a new life in a western university. That is how this will play out. Is that justice for the dead?

Justice will never been seen to be done as money talks and she will walk. But the truth is she should never have been behind the wheel of that car.

Edited January 6, 2011 by jonclark

[MikeyIdea]

Your post above makes no sense...

If Thailand had a parental responsibility law, it wouldn't be a juvenile law... Parents aren't juveniles and aren't covered by the juvenile justice system.

If Thailand had a parental responsibility law, it would be part of the regular criminal code with criminal enforcement.

In the civil justice system, the parents as legally responsible for their underage daughter would automatically already bear the responsibility for any civil liability against her in the case.

I never talked about "limitations" of Thai juvenile law. I simply said, apparently, Thailand doesn't have a parental responsibility law to hold parents criminally responsible when they contribute to criminal wrongdoing by their children.

Nope, if juvenile law didn't specify any responsibility for parents in regards to their children, then civil law would have no mandate to do anything, it starts with juvenile law stating that parents are responsible for their childrens actions while they still are minors

Parental responsibility can be either civil or criminal depending on each law, not only criminal

[beechguy]

You lot are a sad bunch. You all cry for justice, but are ready to pass your own judgement on this girl before she has been properly convicted.

And before you all get on your high horses about me defending her, I'm not..I'm quite happy for a court to decide whether she is guilty or not after reviewing all the facts and evidence (and not from reading newspaper reports like the wannabe judges on this forum)

Listen to yourselves almost baying for blood.. "lock her up, throw away the key" you say.. thank god you are not part of the legal system in any country.

This whole thing is a tradgedy.. for all involved.

totster

Thanks for one of the the few intelligent posts I've read about the this accident. Almost anywhere else, this girl would pay a bond and be out until she had to appear in court, she hasn't been convicted of anything yet.

[jfchandler]

By the way, the other question I posed the other day, which also went unanswered, is whether Thailand has a law that allows juveniles to be criminally charged as adults, depending on their age and the circumstances of the case. Many other places do have such laws.

Absolutely no discussion in the Thai media reports that I have read about whether the girl could or should have been charged as an adult, given her age and the circumstances of the case. So is that differential justice at work again, or perhaps Thailand once again simply doesn't have that kind of law?

[gregb]

You lot are a sad bunch. You all cry for justice, but are ready to pass your own judgement on this girl before she has been properly convicted.

And before you all get on your high horses about me defending her, I'm not..I'm quite happy for a court to decide whether she is guilty or not after reviewing all the facts and evidence (and not from reading newspaper reports like the wannabe judges on this forum)

Listen to yourselves almost baying for blood.. "lock her up, throw away the key" you say.. thank god you are not part of the legal system in any country.

This whole thing is a tradgedy.. for all involved.

totster

dam_n skippy I am. Rich or poor doesn't matter. This isn't about "baying for blood". This is about an utterly insensitive and inappropriate statement that the deaths of 9 people was an "accident". This is about someone trying to evade responsibility.

It would have been more appropriate to say nothing. You seriously think we should sit around and say nothing when this girl tries to defend her actions in the press? If she is allowed to present her case with no evidence and before the trial, why are the rest of us not allowed to have an opinion?

You are a sad person for making an apology for her.

Her statement that it was an "accident" was quite simply wrong and inappropriate. You should be chastising her for making it, not chastising all of us for reacting to it.

I certainly hope justice is forthcoming. But when I see her evading responsibility already at this early date, I have very little hope of that happening.

[jfchandler]

MI, I think we all already understand that in Thailand, the parents have civil liability for the conduct of their children.

The point, however, is that they apparently don't have criminal liability, even when the circumstances might suggest it.

I don't know from the sparse facts whether the parents here deserved any criminal liability in this case. But it's disappointing to learn that Thailand apparently doesn't even have the legal framework in place to allow it, in any case where it might be deserved.

[MikeyIdea]

By the way, the other question I posed the other day, which also went unanswered, is whether Thailand has a law that allows juveniles to be criminally charged as adults, depending on their age and the circumstances of the case. Many other places do have such laws.

Absolutely no discussion in the Thai media reports that I have read about whether the girl could or should have been charged as an adult, given her age and the circumstances of the case. So is that differential justice at work again, or perhaps Thailand once again simply doesn't have that kind of law?

Hi again

Yes, I think you are correct, I don't think that Thailand has laws that can make the parents criminally responsible for wrongdoing by their children

Mario2008 posted information about criminal law in respect to juveniles somewhere 1 or 2 days ago. Juveniles cannot be charged as adults, there are special provisions because they are minors that must be considered

Edit: Comment on the above post that came while I posted this

Yes, I agree that it would have been better if Thailand could make parents criminally responsible for their childrens actions but I would like to see caution in its usage

Edited January 6, 2011 by MikeyIdea

[Orac]

Police Maj-General Amnuay Nimmano, who is supervising the case, in response to questions about the girl's plea, said: "I ask for your permission to not go into details about that. She has acknowledged two offences and given information useful to the investigation."<BR sab="376"><BR sab="377">

Says it all doesn't it.

Certainly does. Which century does this guy think he is in not releasing details to the media. How on earth are we suppose to pass judgement on this case and pontificate wisely if we aren't given the facts.

[random]

well said jonclark, it sickens me how many people are ready to make excuses for this reprobate, people showing her sympathy, people thinking the witch hunt is cruelty, well in my opinion if there was no witch hunt this would have already been dealt with and swept under the carpet.

How about some of you start thinking about the 9 victims of this reprobate and their families, this scum deserves all she gets, yes 'scum', that is all she is, if this was poor boy driving his friends car, recklessly and committed the same acts I have no doubt those championing the cause of the scum in this matter they would be quick to call for the boys head, after all he is just some Somchai who deliberately did wrong and should hang, but add a vagina to the offender and some of you become dribbling fools.

Do we need to wait for the court case, as already admitted she drove without a licence, drove underage and was speeding, lets see the court try and find her not guilty on these matter when they are already admitted or fact, no doubt they have to find her guilty, then appease the wealthy by passing down a laughable sentence.

[Daewoo]

You lot are a sad bunch. You all cry for justice, but are ready to pass your own judgement on this girl before she has been properly convicted.

And before you all get on your high horses about me defending her, I'm not..I'm quite happy for a court to decide whether she is guilty or not after reviewing all the facts and evidence (and not from reading newspaper reports like the wannabe judges on this forum)

Listen to yourselves almost baying for blood.. "lock her up, throw away the key" you say.. thank god you are not part of the legal system in any country.

This whole thing is a tradgedy.. for all involved.

totster

Totster for PM...

Sad bunch indeed...

Edited January 6, 2011 by Daewoo

[KKvampire]

Offspring and all number of relatives of those with close connections to officials in Police and Government know they dont have to behave within the Law,

Thailand maybe of a certain relegion but when it comes to justice there is no equality.

[jfchandler]

MI, thanks for confirming that... I hadn't seen the Mario post you mentioned...

Thailand has many great things, and I choose to live here. But episodes like this remind one that it's still a third world country in many respects...

Apart from the issues of corruption and money buying relief from justice, there simply aren't the kind of legal provisions and protections in place that you might expect in more developed countries....

So a 17 year, 11 month old kid shoots and kills someone in a robbery, they go thru the far more lenient juvenile justice system. Then a kid who's just turned 18 does the exact same thing with the same circumstances, and they go thru the adult justice system... It's just not right...nor just. The law ought to be flexible enough to account for such things.

Hi again

Yes, I think you are correct, I don't think that Thailand has laws that can make the parents criminally responsible for wrongdoing by their children

Mario2008 posted information about criminal law in respect to juveniles somewhere 1 or 2 days ago. Juveniles cannot be charged as adults, there are special provisions because they are minors that should be considered

Edited January 6, 2011 by jfchandler

[ginjag]

You lot are a sad bunch. You all cry for justice, but are ready to pass your own judgement on this girl before she has been properly convicted.

And before you all get on your high horses about me defending her, I'm not..I'm quite happy for a court to decide whether she is guilty or not after reviewing all the facts and evidence (and not from reading newspaper reports like the wannabe judges on this forum)

Listen to yourselves almost baying for blood.. "lock her up, throw away the key" you say.. thank god you are not part of the legal system in any country.

This whole thing is a tradgedy.. for all involved.

totster

dam_n skippy I am. Rich or poor doesn't matter. This isn't about "baying for blood". This is about an utterly insensitive and inappropriate statement that the deaths of 9 people was an "accident". This is about someone trying to evade responsibility.

It would have been more appropriate to say nothing. You seriously think we should sit around and say nothing when this girl tries to defend her actions in the press? If she is allowed to present her case with no evidence and before the trial, why are the rest of us not allowed to have an opinion?

You are a sad person for making an apology for her.

Her statement that it was an "accident" was quite simply wrong and inappropriate. You should be chastising her for making it, not chastising all of us for reacting to it.

I certainly hope justice is forthcoming. But when I see her evading responsibility already at this early date, I have very little hope of that happening.

The tollway crash-INCIDENT == I shouldn't have been in that position at that time in the first place--THE MINOR SHOULD HAVE SAID.

[apollo13]

You lot are a sad bunch. You all cry for justice, but are ready to pass your own judgement on this girl before she has been properly convicted.

And before you all get on your high horses about me defending her, I'm not..I'm quite happy for a court to decide whether she is guilty or not after reviewing all the facts and evidence (and not from reading newspaper reports like the wannabe judges on this forum)

Listen to yourselves almost baying for blood.. "lock her up, throw away the key" you say.. thank god you are not part of the legal system in any country.

This whole thing is a tradgedy.. for all involved.

totster

........couldn't agree more, getting tired of inane 'solitary confinement is a good place to study dhamma' and 'throw away the key' statements that would be more at home in the English tabloid 'gutter press' than blighting this forum nowadays.

[jfchandler]

Yes, I agree that it would have been better if Thailand could make parents criminally responsible for their childrens actions but I would like to see caution in its usage

There is such a law in California... And it's rarely used, probably because prosecutors will file under it only in cases where there was clear, contributory conduct on the part of the parents that led to the crime by the juvenile...

Not just in cases where everyone's home some night and the teenager decides to take the parents' car out joyriding without their knowledge.

I think its use is reserved for the most clear-cut cases of parental involvement. So society there seems to be accepting and fine with the way it's typically been handled.

We may never know the role or non-role of the parents in this case. But from a legal perspective, apparently, it doesn't much matter here.

PS - By the way, the same other media report also cited police as saying the individual who gave the car to the girl faces a 2000 baht fine for giving his/her car to an unlicensed driver....

Edited January 6, 2011 by jfchandler

[thaimate]

Lets put this in perspective ,i am not defending the girl ,but all you who moan about a 16 year old driving ,go and stand outside any school at home time with a placard in Thai for the police on duty saying "why dont you stop these 12 and 13 year olds 3 on a bike without helmets from driving" see how far you will get ,everyone here drives under age, our sons bus drivers son is 15 and been in a coma for 2 years after the m/bike he was pillion on crashed ,the driver was 14 ,dont see angry scenes outside his door or shouts of outrage.

[jayboy]

You lot are a sad bunch. You all cry for justice, but are ready to pass your own judgement on this girl before she has been properly convicted.

And before you all get on your high horses about me defending her, I'm not..I'm quite happy for a court to decide whether she is guilty or not after reviewing all the facts and evidence (and not from reading newspaper reports like the wannabe judges on this forum)

Listen to yourselves almost baying for blood.. "lock her up, throw away the key" you say.. thank god you are not part of the legal system in any country.

This whole thing is a tradgedy.. for all involved.

totster

Totster for PM...

Sad bunch indeed...

Actually it's a reasonable sentiment, but neither original nor very interesting.

Apart from a few blood baying crazies everybody accepts the people in this incident should not be judged before a full investigation, nor should people be be prejudged because of their posh background.OK, everybody on board now?

Now we can consider the broader context namely the culture of impunity for the rich and privileged, and in my mind more interestingly why this incident has aroused so much passion at this particular time.

[jfchandler]

Thaimate, maybe if ordinary Thais did have some outrage about that happened with that kid, and all the others like him, then maybe there wouldn't be so many of these kinds of things...

As long as Thais accept it, then there will be consequences for that attitude.

One could hope that the van case will spur both changes in Thai law and the enforcement of it by the police. But that, I'm afraid, is probably too much to hope for or expect here. And that's the really sad part.

Here's an analogy.. in the U.S. years ago, drunk driving used to be not that big of a deal. You could get arrested, but generally get let off or with a minor penalty like fine and such. And even injury accidents didn't draw that severe a penalty...after all the driver was drunk....

But eventually, enough parents lost their kids and family members to drunken drivers, often LONG repeat drunken drivers, that they formed groups and began to lobby and campaign and eventually changed not only the laws but people's views about them.

Now, if you get popped for drunk driving, even for the first time, you're gonna get a steep fine, spend some time in jail, likely loose your driver's license, pay much higher insurance premiums, and more... It's definitely night and day compared to some years ago.

Edited January 6, 2011 by jfchandler

[Orac]

... Snip

Now we can consider the broader context namely the culture of impunity for the rich and privileged, and in my mind more interestingly why this incident has aroused so much passion at this particular time.

....Snip

The cultural issues are that road laws are ignored by the vast majority, not just the rich and priveledged. I am sure that because of her name/position in society this has got far more column inches than if it had been an 'unknown' poor person but the looming tragedy here is no lessons are going to be learnt and this is going to be viewed as a class issue.

[Thai at Heart]

By the way, the other question I posed the other day, which also went unanswered, is whether Thailand has a law that allows juveniles to be criminally charged as adults, depending on their age and the circumstances of the case. Many other places do have such laws.

Absolutely no discussion in the Thai media reports that I have read about whether the girl could or should have been charged as an adult, given her age and the circumstances of the case. So is that differential justice at work again, or perhaps Thailand once again simply doesn't have that kind of law?

Hi again

Yes, I think you are correct, I don't think that Thailand has laws that can make the parents criminally responsible for wrongdoing by their children

Mario2008 posted information about criminal law in respect to juveniles somewhere 1 or 2 days ago. Juveniles cannot be charged as adults, there are special provisions because they are minors that must be considered

Edit: Comment on the above post that came while I posted this

Yes, I agree that it would have been better if Thailand could make parents criminally responsible for their childrens actions but I would like to see caution in its usage

Making parents criminally responsible for minors sounds like a wonderful idea, but it has to be handled very carefully. I think the issue lies with whether or not parents know or aid what their kids are up to. Parents should have a responsibility to make try to stop their kids breaking the law, however, simply because little Somchai does something stupid, the parents can't be held responsible if they didn't know what he was up to. If the parents knew that she was driving without a license, and if they had for example bought her a car, they should be held responsible in some way. If she had simply taken a friends car and the parents were completely oblivious of the fact, holding them responsible is legally very dangerous.

I would wonder in these situations, if by being a youth she can avoid the full weight of the law, why can't someone be sentenced as a minor pending some kind of reassessment of the crime once they become an adult. I heard a very strange situation in Mexico where drug gangs are using teenagers to carry out killings because they are handled as minors. That surely should be something that the legal system can and has to avoid. Allowing minors to commit grave crimes and allowing them to avoid serious legal punishment is not a desirable outcome at all is it?

[gregb]

I would just like to ask all the people here who think that we should wait until her trail to state this girl is guilty:

Exactly what do you think her defence is going to be? That she really was older than she said she was, and, oh, by the way, here is a license she forgot she had? Maybe you think those 9 people are still alive and being held somewhere and that this is all a government conspiracy to frame an innocent child?

Please do not insult my intelligence. The girl was driving without a license, and 9 people died because of it. If the car was defective, it doesn't matter because she should not have been driving it anyway. If the van driver swerved, it is irrelevant because she should not have been driving anyway. The girl is guilty. There is absolutely nothing that justifies what she did.

I don't need to wait for a trial, and it is insulting in the extreme to listen to her say "this was an accident." It does nothing but dishonor the memories of the people who died in this tragedy.

Something needs to be done when this girl who is already guilty beyond a reasonable doubt tries to say she is innocent. Go through the legal motions to stick her in jail, of course. There is a process that has to apply to everyone. But keep a muzzle on that girl. She can say sorry if she wants and truly means it. The "accident" part is infuriating. None of us are actually that stupid.

And yes, I would feel the same way no matter who it was on trial. The parents that MikeyIdea says bought a Scoopy for their 15 year old. How can anyone defend that? How can anyone tolerate it? These parents should simply have their children taken away from them, and then they should be locked up. The very act of that purchase demonstrates a disdain for society that I will never accept.

My children need to grow up here. I will do whatever is necessary to get people to start acting responsibly with motor vehicles. Sorry MikeyIdea. I will change this aspect of society, even if you find it pleasant. I would think you should too for your daughter's sake. I will continue to speak my mind and call for the immediate imprisonment of people who cause deaths while operating a motor vehicle without a license. There is no excuse for that. None. (OK, possibly if you were rushing someone to a hospital who was dying, and there were no other vehicles on the road. But if there was another vehicle, you should have stopped and asked them to help.)

Maybe, if big enough outcry is made over this crime, this behavior will stop. This is absolutely comparable to or possibly even worse than drunk driving. If we can condemn one, how can we allow the other?

[LuckyLew]

You lot are a sad bunch. You all cry for justice, but are ready to pass your own judgement on this girl before she has been properly convicted.

And before you all get on your high horses about me defending her, I'm not..I'm quite happy for a court to decide whether she is guilty or not after reviewing all the facts and evidence (and not from reading newspaper reports like the wannabe judges on this forum)

Listen to yourselves almost baying for blood.. "lock her up, throw away the key" you say.. thank god you are not part of the legal system in any country.

This whole thing is a tradgedy.. for all involved.

totster

15 years old ... driving with out a permit

She is wring, her parents are wrong and owner of the car is wrong

It is about time the legal system made and example of people

and to me, this is a great place to start

[lannarebirth]

I would just like to ask all the people here who think that we should wait until her trail to state this girl is guilty:

Exactly what do you think her defence is going to be? That she really was older than she said she was, and, oh, by the way, here is a license she forgot she had? Maybe you think those 9 people are still alive and being held somewhere and that this is all a government conspiracy to frame an innocent child?

Please do not insult my intelligence. The girl was driving without a license, and 9 people died because of it. If the car was defective, it doesn't matter because she should not have been driving it anyway. If the van driver swerved, it is irrelevant because she should not have been driving anyway. The girl is guilty. There is absolutely nothing that justifies what she did.

I don't need to wait for a trial, and it is insulting in the extreme to listen to her say "this was an accident." It does nothing but dishonor the memories of the people who died in this tragedy.

Something needs to be done when this girl who is already guilty beyond a reasonable doubt tries to say she is innocent. Go through the legal motions to stick her in jail, of course. There is a process that has to apply to everyone. But keep a muzzle on that girl. She can say sorry if she wants and truly means it. The "accident" part is infuriating. None of us are actually that stupid.

And yes, I would feel the same way no matter who it was on trial. The parents that MikeyIdea says bought a Scoopy for their 15 year old. How can anyone defend that? How can anyone tolerate it? These parents should simply have their children taken away from them, and then they should be locked up. The very act of that purchase demonstrates a disdain for society that I will never accept.

My children need to grow up here. I will do whatever is necessary to get people to start acting responsibly with motor vehicles. Sorry MikeyIdea. I will change this aspect of society, even if you find it pleasant. I would think you should too for your daughter's sake. I will continue to speak my mind and call for the immediate imprisonment of people who cause deaths while operating a motor vehicle without a license. There is no excuse for that. None. (OK, possibly if you were rushing someone to a hospital who was dying, and there were no other vehicles on the road. But if there was another vehicle, you should have stopped and asked them to help.)

Maybe, if big enough outcry is made over this crime, this behavior will stop. This is absolutely comparable to or possibly even worse than drunk driving. If we can condemn one, how can we allow the other?

Outcry and frustration will not change laws, but it might change form of government, and perhaps not for the better... The only thing that has been shown to effect change is massive punitive damages. That is a concept foreign to this nation where "compensation" for victims and their families is whatever the compensator says it is. Punitive damages gets in the pocket of insurers, who in their own interests will push for change in driver education and law enforcement. It's a joke to think anything will change for the good of the populace, but get into some corporations pocket and then maybe there's a chance.

Edited January 6, 2011 by lannarebirth

[Thai at Heart]

I would just like to ask all the people here who think that we should wait until her trail to state this girl is guilty:

Exactly what do you think her defence is going to be? That she really was older than she said she was, and, oh, by the way, here is a license she forgot she had? Maybe you think those 9 people are still alive and being held somewhere and that this is all a government conspiracy to frame an innocent child?

Please do not insult my intelligence. The girl was driving without a license, and 9 people died because of it. If the car was defective, it doesn't matter because she should not have been driving it anyway. If the van driver swerved, it is irrelevant because she should not have been driving anyway. The girl is guilty. There is absolutely nothing that justifies what she did.

I don't need to wait for a trial, and it is insulting in the extreme to listen to her say "this was an accident." It does nothing but dishonor the memories of the people who died in this tragedy.

Something needs to be done when this girl who is already guilty beyond a reasonable doubt tries to say she is innocent. Go through the legal motions to stick her in jail, of course. There is a process that has to apply to everyone. But keep a muzzle on that girl. She can say sorry if she wants and truly means it. The "accident" part is infuriating. None of us are actually that stupid.

And yes, I would feel the same way no matter who it was on trial. The parents that MikeyIdea says bought a Scoopy for their 15 year old. How can anyone defend that? How can anyone tolerate it? These parents should simply have their children taken away from them, and then they should be locked up. The very act of that purchase demonstrates a disdain for society that I will never accept.

My children need to grow up here. I will do whatever is necessary to get people to start acting responsibly with motor vehicles. Sorry MikeyIdea. I will change this aspect of society, even if you find it pleasant. I would think you should too for your daughter's sake. I will continue to speak my mind and call for the immediate imprisonment of people who cause deaths while operating a motor vehicle without a license. There is no excuse for that. None. (OK, possibly if you were rushing someone to a hospital who was dying, and there were no other vehicles on the road. But if there was another vehicle, you should have stopped and asked them to help.)

Maybe, if big enough outcry is made over this crime, this behavior will stop. This is absolutely comparable to or possibly even worse than drunk driving. If we can condemn one, how can we allow the other?

Outcry and frustration will not change laws, buty it might change form of government, and perhaps not for the better... The only thing that has been shown to affect change is massive punitive damges. That is a concept foreign to this nation where "compensation" for victims and their families is whatever the compensator says it is. Punitive damages gets in the pocket of insurers, who in their own interests will push for change in driver education and law enforcement. It's a joke to think anything will change for the good of the populace, but get into some corporations pocket and then maybe there's a chance.

Yes punitive damages cause problems of their own. However, I don't see any other way to solve this issue. A pittance of cash, paying for hospital fees and a sorry doesn't match the crime. Anyone to re-open the Santika story??????????

Edited January 6, 2011 by Thai at Heart

[lannarebirth]

I would just like to ask all the people here who think that we should wait until her trail to state this girl is guilty:

Exactly what do you think her defence is going to be? That she really was older than she said she was, and, oh, by the way, here is a license she forgot she had? Maybe you think those 9 people are still alive and being held somewhere and that this is all a government conspiracy to frame an innocent child?

Please do not insult my intelligence. The girl was driving without a license, and 9 people died because of it. If the car was defective, it doesn't matter because she should not have been driving it anyway. If the van driver swerved, it is irrelevant because she should not have been driving anyway. The girl is guilty. There is absolutely nothing that justifies what she did.

I don't need to wait for a trial, and it is insulting in the extreme to listen to her say "this was an accident." It does nothing but dishonor the memories of the people who died in this tragedy.

Something needs to be done when this girl who is already guilty beyond a reasonable doubt tries to say she is innocent. Go through the legal motions to stick her in jail, of course. There is a process that has to apply to everyone. But keep a muzzle on that girl. She can say sorry if she wants and truly means it. The "accident" part is infuriating. None of us are actually that stupid.

And yes, I would feel the same way no matter who it was on trial. The parents that MikeyIdea says bought a Scoopy for their 15 year old. How can anyone defend that? How can anyone tolerate it? These parents should simply have their children taken away from them, and then they should be locked up. The very act of that purchase demonstrates a disdain for society that I will never accept.

My children need to grow up here. I will do whatever is necessary to get people to start acting responsibly with motor vehicles. Sorry MikeyIdea. I will change this aspect of society, even if you find it pleasant. I would think you should too for your daughter's sake. I will continue to speak my mind and call for the immediate imprisonment of people who cause deaths while operating a motor vehicle without a license. There is no excuse for that. None. (OK, possibly if you were rushing someone to a hospital who was dying, and there were no other vehicles on the road. But if there was another vehicle, you should have stopped and asked them to help.)

Maybe, if big enough outcry is made over this crime, this behavior will stop. This is absolutely comparable to or possibly even worse than drunk driving. If we can condemn one, how can we allow the other?

Outcry and frustration will not change laws, buty it might change form of government, and perhaps not for the better... The only thing that has been shown to affect change is massive punitive damges. That is a concept foreign to this nation where "compensation" for victims and their families is whatever the compensator says it is. Punitive damages gets in the pocket of insurers, who in their own interests will push for change in driver education and law enforcement. It's a joke to think anything will change for the good of the populace, but get into some corporations pocket and then maybe there's a chance.

Yes punitive damages cause problems of their own. However, I don't see any other way to solve this issue. A pittance of cash, paying for hospital fees and a sorry doesn't match the crime. Anyone to re-open the Santika story??????????

No question, but it is only in that adversarial crucible that I have ever seen the status quo challanged.

[jfchandler]

Thai at Heart, I agree and I already addressed those concerns about the parental responsibility law, at least in terms of how it's been implemented in California... It can be done, and handled in a sensible way by prosecutors.... who want and need jury convictions...not acquittals... So they're not going to bring a case unless they think they can convince a unanimous panel of 12 jurors (the requirement for a criminal conviction in California) that the parents really had a direct, KNOWING role in whatever occurred, not just parental bystanders.

As for the youths issue you mention, the same thing used to happen with gangs in the U.S. They'd always get young teens to handle the drugs or do the actual shooting, because they knew they'd get off lightly under the juvenile justice system. I'm thinking that's part of what led to the notion of laws allowing teens to be charged as adults under certain circumstances in the U.S.

If this same van episode had happened in the U.S., I'm guessing (as a longtime news reporter) there's a good chance this girl would have been charged as an adult, based on her upper age, the severity of the accident, and the known circumstances (no license, not legal to drive, speeding, etc).

On the other hand, if a 12 year old got into their parents car and went joyriding on a lark and ended up hitting and killing someone... they probably, almost certainly, wouldn't be charged as an adult. Hopefully, the justice system in a country is equipped to make those kinds of distinctions... Here, apparently, not so.

[MikeyIdea]

Yes, I agree that it would have been better if Thailand could make parents criminally responsible for their childrens actions but I would like to see caution in its usage

There is such a law in California... And it's rarely used, probably because prosecutors will file under it only in cases where there was clear, contributory conduct on the part of the parents that led to the crime by the juvenile...

Not just in cases where everyone's home some night and the teenager decides to take the parents' car out joyriding without their knowledge.

I think its use is reserved for the most clear-cut cases of parental involvement. So society there seems to be accepting and fine with the way it's typically been handled.

We may never know the role or non-role of the parents in this case. But from a legal perspective, apparently, it doesn't much matter here.

PS - By the way, the same other media report also cited police as saying the individual who gave the car to the girl faces a 2000 baht fine for giving his/her car to an unlicensed driver....

2000 baht fine - That is what the police decided to do, the victims can still sue the owner of the car according to civil law if they want

"We may never know the role or non-role of the parents in this case"

She was driving someone elses car, not her car when the accident happened. I may get flamed for writing it but before you do, read the Honda City club thread (in Thai). It seems to me that the partents were very lucky indeed

The girls internet alias is so ununual that any discussion if we talk about the same person is a waste of time... And account was created several months before the tragic accident.. And she opened up a new thread only a couple of days from her 16th birthday. What was the topic she choose?

ไปรับรถมาเมื่อวานค่ะเห่อมาก - Bai rap rot ma mowan ka, hoe maak - Went to fetch (the - my) car yesterday ka, very happy (proud)

You don't specify whose car it is when you write like this in Thai so she doesn't write if it is her car or someone elses car but I would not have opened up a thread on the Honda City club website because I had fetched someone elses car if I had been 16 years old...

[Thai at Heart]

Thai at Heart, I agree and I already addressed those concerns about the parental responsibility law, at least in terms of how it's been implemented in California... It can be done, and handled in a sensible way by prosecutors.... who want and need jury convictions...not acquittals... So they're not going to bring a case unless they think they can convince a unanimous panel of 12 jurors (the requirement for a criminal conviction in California) that the parents really had a direct, KNOWING role in whatever occurred, not just parental bystanders.

As for the youths issue you mention, the same thing used to happen with gangs in the U.S. They'd always get young teens to handle the drugs or do the actual shooting, because they knew they'd get off lightly under the juvenile justice system. I'm thinking that's part of what led to the notion of laws allowing teens to be charged as adults under certain circumstances in the U.S.

If this same van episode had happened in the U.S., I'm guessing (as a longtime news reporter) there's a good chance this girl would have been charged as an adult, based on her upper age, the severity of the accident, and the known circumstances (no license, not legal to drive, speeding, etc).

On the other hand, if a 12 year old got into their parents car and went joyriding on a lark and ended up hitting and killing someone... they probably, almost certainly, wouldn't be charged as an adult. Hopefully, the justice system in a country is equipped to make those kinds of distinctions... Here, apparently, not so.

I saw your answer after I had written my post. Indeed, their level of sophistication needed to implement this type of parental responsibility can be achieved. The UK has something similar for anti-social behaviour or truancy. The accountability of those involved in this case will be decided by the court, but to most of us it is pretty apparent what has happened, and saying sorry, a slap on the wrist, and the parents paying out some form of compensation isn't going to swing with many in the country.

It will be extremely interesting to see the legal judgement. It isn't as though Thailand hasn't had its fair share of accusations that the courts apparently have a two stream service depending on who you are. Let's see if this case marks just a small step in removing this accusation.

[jfchandler]

Yes punitive damages cause problems of their own. However, I don't see any other way to solve this issue. A pittance of cash, paying for hospital fees and a sorry doesn't match the crime. Anyone to re-open the Santika story??????????

I posted on it (Santika) earlier in this same thread... see that post here...

[whybother]

@GregB

9 people didn't die because someone was driving without a license. If that was the case, there would be thousands dead every day for all the unlicensed drivers out there. She was probably more experienced than a lot of licensed drivers out there. She was speeding, like a lot of other licensed drivers out there.

If a car had hit her and killed her, would she be at fault because she was unlicensed? Would the other driver not be guilty of killing her, just because she was unlicensed?

9 people died because she was driving recklessly and hit a car from behind. The girl has been charged with causing death through reckless driving. They are going through the legal motions, and she is currently out on bail, as any licensed driver would be in this case.

Don't you need a trial to hear all the facts, rather than base your final verdict on some of the lies that have been posted about her? Doesn't she have a right to talk, the same way that everyone else is talking about her? What if it comes out that the van did change lanes suddenly and also braked? Should she not be allowed to defend herself?

If she is found guilty of causing the deaths (which is most likely), she should be punished. She shouldn't get off lightly because of her family background. But that is up to the courts to decide, and let the outrage come out then if she doesn't get punished appropriately.

I agree 100% that something needs to be done about unlicensed driving. The idea that people get away with a small fine when they get caught is laughable. More needs to be done to deter unlicensed driving and also to ensure licensed drivers also get enough experience before they allowed on the roads by themselves.