Thai Girl Involved In Tragic Tollway Accident Says That She Is Sorry

[NanLaew]

I would just like to ask all the people here who think that we should wait until her trail to state this girl is guilty:

Exactly what do you think her defence is going to be? That she really was older than she said she was, and, oh, by the way, here is a license she forgot she had? Maybe you think those 9 people are still alive and being held somewhere and that this is all a government conspiracy to frame an innocent child?

Please do not insult my intelligence. The girl was driving without a license, and 9 people died because of it. If the car was defective, it doesn't matter because she should not have been driving it anyway. If the van driver swerved, it is irrelevant because she should not have been driving anyway. The girl is guilty. There is absolutely nothing that justifies what she did.

I don't need to wait for a trial, and it is insulting in the extreme to listen to her say "this was an accident." It does nothing but dishonor the memories of the people who died in this tragedy.

Something needs to be done when this girl who is already guilty beyond a reasonable doubt tries to say she is innocent. Go through the legal motions to stick her in jail, of course. There is a process that has to apply to everyone. But keep a muzzle on that girl. She can say sorry if she wants and truly means it. The "accident" part is infuriating. None of us are actually that stupid.

And yes, I would feel the same way no matter who it was on trial. The parents that MikeyIdea says bought a Scoopy for their 15 year old. How can anyone defend that? How can anyone tolerate it? These parents should simply have their children taken away from them, and then they should be locked up. The very act of that purchase demonstrates a disdain for society that I will never accept.

My children need to grow up here. I will do whatever is necessary to get people to start acting responsibly with motor vehicles. Sorry MikeyIdea. I will change this aspect of society, even if you find it pleasant. I would think you should too for your daughter's sake. I will continue to speak my mind and call for the immediate imprisonment of people who cause deaths while operating a motor vehicle without a license. There is no excuse for that. None. (OK, possibly if you were rushing someone to a hospital who was dying, and there were no other vehicles on the road. But if there was another vehicle, you should have stopped and asked them to help.)

Maybe, if big enough outcry is made over this crime, this behavior will stop. This is absolutely comparable to or possibly even worse than drunk driving. If we can condemn one, how can we allow the other?

Oh Lord just listen to you. A trial? It will never go to trial <deleted>. You watch too much television.

There's no trial by jury in LOS. There's the judge and then there's his judgement. But once again, in this case, it will never even get to that stage, money will be paid and life will go on as NORMAL.

[lannarebirth]

You lot are a sad bunch. You all cry for justice, but are ready to pass your own judgement on this girl before she has been properly convicted.

And before you all get on your high horses about me defending her, I'm not..I'm quite happy for a court to decide whether she is guilty or not after reviewing all the facts and evidence (and not from reading newspaper reports like the wannabe judges on this forum)

Listen to yourselves almost baying for blood.. "lock her up, throw away the key" you say.. thank god you are not part of the legal system in any country.

This whole thing is a tradgedy.. for all involved.

totster

dam_n skippy I am. Rich or poor doesn't matter. This isn't about "baying for blood". This is about an utterly insensitive and inappropriate statement that the deaths of 9 people was an "accident". This is about someone trying to evade responsibility.

It would have been more appropriate to say nothing. You seriously think we should sit around and say nothing when this girl tries to defend her actions in the press? If she is allowed to present her case with no evidence and before the trial, why are the rest of us not allowed to have an opinion?

You are a sad person for making an apology for her.

Her statement that it was an "accident" was quite simply wrong and inappropriate. You should be chastising her for making it, not chastising all of us for reacting to it.

I certainly hope justice is forthcoming. But when I see her evading responsibility already at this early date, I have very little hope of that happening.

Well, there was going to be at least one.

I made it quite clear I was not defending her. I was more commenting on the pathetic posts by the likes of you and others. You must be very proud of yourself attacking a 16 year old girl on the internet with no real knowledge of the facts.

Also, can you tell me how many deaths it takes for an accident to not be an accident ?

Thanks

Totster

Maybe when it's your child killed you'll be less likely to take the broad view. Then on the other hand you might just be "happy" you "got that nice wedge in the bank".

It is also good to note that if this does go the way everyone seems to think it is, then if those families of the dead victims get proper compensation they may feel that justice has been done for them. Surely a nice wedge in the bank is going to help these less than well off people in the long run, putting someone behind bars does nothing... they will still hve the same grief.

So, if the families are happy with the outcome then justice will have been served....

Totster

[Totster]

15 years old ... driving with out a permit

She is wring, her parents are wrong and owner of the car is wrong

It is about time the legal system made and example of people

and to me, this is a great place to start

Hmmm.. yes, make an example of them, thats the way.

Making examples of people is hardly a fair way to apply the law. Lets think for a minute of all the other people who have died as a result of drink drivers / careless driving in the last week.

I see no press mobs and front page write ups about their cases.. I wonder how many have paid to keep from going to prison over the last week.

totster

[MikeyIdea]

I understand the notion and approach being discussed below..the Thai way...

But unfortunately, what that approach misses and neglects is justice for society,,,, not just payment to the victims. It's through the criminal process and punishments resulting from it that the society involved obtains justice, and the result serves as a known deterrent to others from engaging in the same kind of conduct, not to mention a more direct punishment to the culpable party than just shelling out some cash.

It seems to me that Thailand could use a whole lot more deterrent and enforcement in quite a few areas....that is.. if anyone cares about trying to live in a reasonably safe and orderly society.

Yes, that is what I describe as the practical approach

Thais do not see justice in punishing the poor family who only wanted their poor daughter to get a better chance in life by sending her to a school in amphur muang instead of the village school. Incidentally the daughter was 12 and driving a motorcycle her parents had made available for her when she caused an accident hurting / killing someone. Is it justice to do that? Why is justice for society so important? That thinking is deeply rooted here, as is the concept of apology, it really means something

The above is not written in an attempt to be mean, I don't know how to describe the Thai values and how they see things, it takes years to learn to appreciate

Can you appreciate it yet?

again, not writing this with a bad intent at all, it's written jokingly and I know it's difficult to learn to appreciate and take years

[Totster]

Maybe when it's your child killed you'll be less likely to take the broad view. Then on the other hand you might just be "happy" you "got that nice wedge in the bank".

Hmm, yeah.. I see how I was misquoted slighty. I said if they are happy with the outcome (I didn't mention the wedge at that point)

totster

[jfchandler]

Actually, in the process you describe below, justice isn't served at all...

I won't repeat the reason why, because I already explained it in the post above referencing Santika...

The reason this stuff continues to occur, and the same kinds of mishaps keep occurring (like the water park rides collapsing) is there isn't a justice system that gains justice for society, punishes those guilty of criminal offense, and provides a deterrent.

In a better justice system, the guilty are punished in the criminal justice system AND THEN the victims are free to go after the guilty for compensation in the civil system... It's not either/or... It's BOTH. That surely would be a better approach for society, even here in Thailand.

Otherwise, you reap what you sow....

It is also good to note that if this does go the way everyone seems to think it is, then if those families of the dead victims get proper compensation they may feel that justice has been done for them. Surely a nice wedge in the bank is going to help these less than well off people in the long run, putting someone behind bars does nothing... they will still hve the same grief.

So, if the families are happy with the outcome then justice will have been served.. maybe not in the way that you or

I would like it.. but no one gives a shit what we think. This is the way it happens in Thailand.

Totster

[jayjay0]

would like to say nice things about her and defend her, but really cannot find anything nice to say.

"the fact the girl turned herself in was enough reason to let her go"

pile of horse s***

I agree the girl deserves punishment.

the one problem I am having with the whole thing is the way the press is reporting it.

They make it seem like she was a cold blooded killer. I understand the press it is there job to sell papers not to tell the whole story if it will hurt there bottom line.

They could just as easily spun this in a way to make the girl look very remorseful. If they had done it that way all would agree she deserves punishment but there would be a lot less inane rambling on of solitary confinement. And equally harsh punishments.

Will we ever know any more than she was 16 and caused a accident where nine died? Will we ever know how remorseful she was? Will we ever know if she was on legitimate medications that contributed too the accident? Will we ever know if it was all just really a joy ride?

The answer is no,we will be left with what the press thinks we will pay the most money for.

[lannarebirth]

Maybe when it's your child killed you'll be less likely to take the broad view. Then on the other hand you might just be "happy" you "got that nice wedge in the bank".

Hmm, yeah.. I see how I was misquoted slighty. I said if they are happy with the outcome (I didn't mention the wedge at that point)

totster

My point is that there is no good outcome for those involved in this tragedy. Not for the victims and their families nor for the girl involved (even if she evades "justice" (whatever that means)). The only possibility for anyone receiving a good outcome is if somehow this case, unlike so many other ones so similar to it, leads to reform. Reform either in education, law enforcement, social dialogue about "double standards", etc. There are not many opportunities here to effect positive change. This may be one.

[Thai at Heart]

Actually, in the process you describe below, justice isn't served at all...

I won't repeat the reason why, because I already explained it in the post above referencing Santika...

The reason this stuff continues to occur, and the same kinds of mishaps keep occurring (like the water park rides collapsing) is there isn't a justice system that gains justice for society, punishes those guilty of criminal offense, and provides a deterrent.

In a better justice system, the guilty are punished in the criminal justice system AND THEN the victims are free to go after the guilty for compensation in the civil system... It's not either/or... It's BOTH. That surely would be a better approach for society, even here in Thailand.

Otherwise, you reap what you sow....

It is also good to note that if this does go the way everyone seems to think it is, then if those families of the dead victims get proper compensation they may feel that justice has been done for them. Surely a nice wedge in the bank is going to help these less than well off people in the long run, putting someone behind bars does nothing... they will still hve the same grief.

So, if the families are happy with the outcome then justice will have been served.. maybe not in the way that you or

I would like it.. but no one gives a shit what we think. This is the way it happens in Thailand.

Totster

couldn't agree more

[jfchandler]

I have never commented here on the specific episode you're referencing below...

And, whether one understands the Thai approach or not isn't the point. The point is, is it is best approach for Thai society.

In a good justice system, there is the ability the separate out the inadvertent from the willful, the very bad from the caught in a bad situation.

And justice for society is important, because as I made clear earlier, it's really punishment under the criminal justice system (when deserved) that creates a deterrent and respect for the law and willingness by others to follow it.

When there's no fear of meaningful punishment and any wrongdoing can simply be washed away with money, then you get the kind of society Thailand has become.

Thais do not see justice in punishing the poor family who only wanted their poor daughter to get a better chance in life by sending her to a school in amphur muang instead of the village school. Incidentally the daughter was 12 and driving a motorcycle her parents had made available for her when she caused an accident hurting / killing someone. Is it justice to do that? Why is justice for society so important? That thinking is deeply rooted here, as is the concept of apology, it really means something

The above is not written in an attempt to be mean, I don't know how to describe the Thai values and how they see things, it takes years to learn to appreciate

Can you appreciate it yet?

again, not writing this with a bad intent at all, it's written jokingly and I know it's difficult to learn to appreciate and take years

[thunder30101]

A couple of weeks and it will all be forgotten. This is Thailand.

[Indo-Siam]

Having driven a lot, and having been in a few accidents, and having seen a number of other accidents as they occurred, the details of this accident suggest to me that the van driver failed to clear to his rear, before changing lanes. I haven't seen or heard any clear and reliable reports of the actual speeds of the vehicle - only that the Civic was moving a lot faster than the van. I have only driven extensively in USA, Germany, and Thailand. In the USA and Germany, if you change lanes without clearing to your rear, and a faster moving vehicle, overtaking you in that lane collides with you, you are at fault.

I can't visualize the physics of how a small Civic could impact directly from the rear, into a much larger van, moving straight forward, on a straight and dry road, and cause the van to flip out of control.

I can easily visualize a van changing lanes abruptly, and having an overtaking vehicle strike its rear corner, with the slope of the hood of the trailing vehicle causing the van to flip.

So - with nothing more than my own long experience as driver to go on - and without perfect knowledge of the actual details of the collision - I would think it more likely than not that the van driver had some shared responsibility for this incident - and, as such - I would classify it as a likely ACCIDENT - meaning it is the result of the intersection of two independent mistakes by two different parties.

Thus - I have no problem with the Civic driver posting bail, and being freed under that perfectly normal process. At every Thai Police station, there is clearly posted a chart showing offenses, and associate bail amounts. It is standard, and if someone is charged with a listed offense, and posts the stipulated bail, I think it absurd for any outside observer to take issue with this.

It appears that the driver of the Civic had some deficiency in her administrative authority to drive in Thailand - but not that she was unfamiliar with driving, or was grossly beyond the pale of routine, fairly common practice.

So - based on what my own perceptions have taken in, I think the Civic driver is very possibly guilty of driving at excessive speed, and of driving without a proper Thai license - and MAYBE even reckless driving (if she was weaving in and out of lanes - which I know nothing about). I would not tend to charge her with manslaughter or vehicular homicide, or any other more serious offense.

I also understand that there is substantial evidence that a third vehicle may have been involved, based on colored paint appearing on collision damage, that does not match the color of either the Civic or the van. If a third vehicle is factored in, the physics of the collision become much more complex - and the role of the Civic may very well diminish in its influence on the outcome.

My guess is that the highway police (and insurance company investigators) are doing their best to figure out the details of what really happened - and they have the best access to the accident scene - including CCTV, skid marks, vehicle damage, eye-witnesses, etc. I have no reason to suspect that they will not develop a fairly good model of what occurred on that highway that night. Right now, no one writing on this forum has access to sufficient information to draw a reasonably certain conclusion.

Nothing that the Civic driver, or her family have said or done, seem inappropriate to me.

IS

[jonclark]

The problem with the idea of buying your way out of trouble is that you end up with a biased legal system. As only those that can buy them selves out of trouble are able to do so. In effect this creates the 'haves' and 'have nots'.

Suppose you have two very similar crimes.

Person A is able to pay 100'00 baht to avoid jail, by payment to the victims family. The 100'000 baht is a small proportion of person A's wealth and as such the consequences of losing it are very small for both the offender and by association their family.

Person B has no money to pay to the victims family and subsequently gets a two year jail term. The two year jail term has significant consequences for the offender and the family as the main wage earner is incarcerated.

Were the consequences of the crime, i.e. the punishment equal?

[jfchandler]

IS, you've done a ton of speculating above, drawing in your own personal experiences... not as a traffic engineer or accident investigator, I assume...

You also have a tendency toward extreme understatement. The girl was underage for driving. The girl didn't have a Thai or otherwise legal driver's license. The girl herself has admitted she was speeding. The Thai police, based on whatever inquiry and knowledge they have, have said they're going to file criminal charges against her for causing or at least contributing to the crash.

On the flip side, I haven't heard a single authority say anything about charging the van driver with anything....at least as yet...

It sounds like you're heading toward nominating the girl as Thai Citizen of the Year...

[jimbeam1]

Amnuay said settlement between the girl's family and relatives of those killed and injured would likely be reached in the future.

That's what I said before ... Money will resolve everything and charges will be dropped ... Want to bet ?

Sorry if I gamble, I prefer the odds in my favor.

She said sorry it was an accident! It was not. It was mass manslaughter. She did not have a licence, she is not old enough to hold a licence. She had no right to be driving that car. So she should not have been where she was at that time, to cause that slaughter.

But as said it would seem that the families are gearing up for the big pay day. Next please?

jb1

Edited January 6, 2011 by jimbeam1

[MikeyIdea]

I have never commented here on the specific episode you're referencing below...

And, whether one understands the Thai approach or not isn't the point. The point is, is it is best approach for Thai society.

In a good justice system, there is the ability the separate out the inadvertent from the willful, the very bad from the caught in a bad situation.

And justice for society is important, because as I made clear earlier, it's really punishment under the criminal justice system (when deserved) that creates a deterrent and respect for the law and willingness by others to follow it.

When there's no fear of meaningful punishment and any wrongdoing can simply be washed away with money, then you get the kind of society Thailand has become.

Thais do not see justice in punishing the poor family who only wanted their poor daughter to get a better chance in life by sending her to a school in amphur muang instead of the village school. Incidentally the daughter was 12 and driving a motorcycle her parents had made available for her when she caused an accident hurting / killing someone. Is it justice to do that? Why is justice for society so important? That thinking is deeply rooted here, as is the concept of apology, it really means something

The above is not written in an attempt to be mean, I don't know how to describe the Thai values and how they see things, it takes years to learn to appreciate

Can you appreciate it yet?

again, not writing this with a bad intent at all, it's written jokingly and I know it's difficult to learn to appreciate and take years

I didn't mean to say that you did, I just wrote it to try to describe to you how the Thais see it. If you see it that way then you will also understand that the best implementation speed of improvements for Thai society in any area is based on how the Thais see it, not how westerners see it. I see considerable improvement in traffic safety the last 20 years, there is very much left to do of course. The Thais see considerable improvement in traffic safety too and they see considerable improvement in their living standard / purchasing power too - the two are linked by necessity. Is the improvement too slow?

The same about law really. If Thailand had been colonised, then Thailand would most likely have a much better legal system in place. Do we want Thailand to have been that? NO, I scream anyway, then the Thais would have been different from what they are now and I don't want that. There is improvement - civil law works better than it did 20 years ago, is the improvement fast enough? I see I think that you think that the improvement is way too slow, also I think it is too slow but not as too much too slow as you do.

I think that you are wrong using the phrase "Thailand has become", it's rather that Thailand has traditionally been like that but it is slowly changing. It's perhaps changing too slowly in most aspects but that is totally depending on who we ask

The point is, which point should we measure with? Difficult this

Of course the western approach is more efficient, but it is less humane today

Edited January 6, 2011 by MikeyIdea

[Totster]

It is also good to note that if this does go the way everyone seems to think it is, then if those families of the dead victims get proper compensation they may feel that justice has been done for them. Surely a nice wedge in the bank is going to help these less than well off people in the long run, putting someone behind bars does nothing... they will still hve the same grief.

So, if the families are happy with the outcome then justice will have been served.. maybe not in the way that you or

I would like it.. but no one gives a shit what we think. This is the way it happens in Thailand.

Totster

Actually, in the process you describe below, justice isn't served at all...

I won't repeat the reason why, because I already explained it in the post above referencing Santika...

The reason this stuff continues to occur, and the same kinds of mishaps keep occurring (like the water park rides collapsing) is there isn't a justice system that gains justice for society, punishes those guilty of criminal offense, and provides a deterrent.

In a better justice system, the guilty are punished in the criminal justice system AND THEN the victims are free to go after the guilty for compensation in the civil system... It's not either/or... It's BOTH. That surely would be a better approach for society, even here in Thailand.

Otherwise, you reap what you sow....

Yes, I completely understand your point. However you see justice in a different way from being brought up in a country where this is the norm.. in Thailand the way they do things is their norm.

To address you last point.. I am not sowing anything, the judcial/legal system in Thailand is completely out of my control, anything I say or do will have absolutely no effect whatsoever on changing how things are done here. So, there doesn't seem much point in discussing it over and over again.

totster

[ginjag]

Having driven a lot, and having been in a few accidents, and having seen a number of other accidents as they occurred, the details of this accident suggest to me that the van driver failed to clear to his rear, before changing lanes. I haven't seen or heard any clear and reliable reports of the actual speeds of the vehicle - only that the Civic was moving a lot faster than the van. I have only driven extensively in USA, Germany, and Thailand. In the USA and Germany, if you change lanes without clearing to your rear, and a faster moving vehicle, overtaking you in that lane collides with you, you are at fault.

I can't visualize the physics of how a small Civic could impact directly from the rear, into a much larger van, moving straight forward, on a straight and dry road, and cause the van to flip out of control.

I can easily visualize a van changing lanes abruptly, and having an overtaking vehicle strike its rear corner, with the slope of the hood of the trailing vehicle causing the van to flip.

So - with nothing more than my own long experience as driver to go on - and without perfect knowledge of the actual details of the collision - I would think it more likely than not that the van driver had some shared responsibility for this incident - and, as such - I would classify it as a likely ACCIDENT - meaning it is the result of the intersection of two independent mistakes by two different parties.

Thus - I have no problem with the Civic driver posting bail, and being freed under that perfectly normal process. At every Thai Police station, there is clearly posted a chart showing offenses, and associate bail amounts. It is standard, and if someone is charged with a listed offense, and posts the stipulated bail, I think it absurd for any outside observer to take issue with this.

It appears that the driver of the Civic had some deficiency in her administrative authority to drive in Thailand - but not that she was unfamiliar with driving, or was grossly beyond the pale of routine, fairly common practice.

So - based on what my own perceptions have taken in, I think the Civic driver is very possibly guilty of driving at excessive speed, and of driving without a proper Thai license - and MAYBE even reckless driving (if she was weaving in and out of lanes - which I know nothing about). I would not tend to charge her with manslaughter or vehicular homicide, or any other more serious offense.

I also understand that there is substantial evidence that a third vehicle may have been involved, based on colored paint appearing on collision damage, that does not match the color of either the Civic or the van. If a third vehicle is factored in, the physics of the collision become much more complex - and the role of the Civic may very well diminish in its influence on the outcome.

My guess is that the highway police (and insurance company investigators) are doing their best to figure out the details of what really happened - and they have the best access to the accident scene - including CCTV, skid marks, vehicle damage, eye-witnesses, etc. I have no reason to suspect that they will not develop a fairly good model of what occurred on that highway that night. Right now, no one writing on this forum has access to sufficient information to draw a reasonably certain conclusion.

Nothing that the Civic driver, or her family have said or done, seem inappropriate to me.

IS

You my friend are singing the same chorus as a few others, Nothing that the civic driver, or her familyhave said or ..DONE.. seem inappropriate to me..................WHAT !!!!!!!!................my god AMAZING

[jonclark]

It is also good to note that if this does go the way everyone seems to think it is, then if those families of the dead victims get proper compensation they may feel that justice has been done for them. Surely a nice wedge in the bank is going to help these less than well off people in the long run, putting someone behind bars does nothing... they will still hve the same grief.

So, if the families are happy with the outcome then justice will have been served.. maybe not in the way that you or

I would like it.. but no one gives a shit what we think. This is the way it happens in Thailand.

Totster

Actually, in the process you describe below, justice isn't served at all...

I won't repeat the reason why, because I already explained it in the post above referencing Santika...

The reason this stuff continues to occur, and the same kinds of mishaps keep occurring (like the water park rides collapsing) is there isn't a justice system that gains justice for society, punishes those guilty of criminal offense, and provides a deterrent.

In a better justice system, the guilty are punished in the criminal justice system AND THEN the victims are free to go after the guilty for compensation in the civil system... It's not either/or... It's BOTH. That surely would be a better approach for society, even here in Thailand.

Otherwise, you reap what you sow....

Yes, I completely understand your point. However you see justice in a different way from being brought up in a country where this is the norm.. in Thailand the way they do things is their norm.

To address you last point.. I am not sowing anything, the judcial/legal system in Thailand is completely out of my control, anything I say or do will have absolutely no effect whatsoever on changing how things are done here. So, there doesn't seem much point in discussing it over and over again.

totster

Totster - I think the problem with the norm now, is closely linked to the rise in wealth of middle classes and the increasing disparity between the rich and poor. More of the middle class are able to follow a norm normally the preserve of the 'elite' . Because of this more cases are being 'solved' using money' . As a consequence 'justice' is now becoming a commodity that can increasingly be bought. So we end up with a dual system of justice. The consequences of losing 100'000 baht to a rich family with a combined wealth of many millions, is far less severe that a 2 year jail sentence for a poor family.

The punishments are not equal and for societies to be just, justice and the consequences thereof must be equal.

I agree with what you have written clearly the judicial system is the preserve of the Thais, but has been very visible by the range of posts is that almost all agree that the justice system is not just in consequence.

[Indo-Siam]

The girl was underage for driving. The girl didn't have a Thai or otherwise legal driver's license. The girl herself has admitted she was speeding. The Thai police, based on whatever inquiry and knowledge they have, have said they're going to file criminal charges against her for causing or at least contributing to the crash.

In my home country, I got my driver's license at age 16 - and drove from then on - as did most young people in my country. So - Driving at age 16 - in itself - does not strike me as big problem. At what age can young people obtain a driver's license in your country? Her age is not in itself a proximate cause of any harm - so I don't see the point in hanging her because she is 16 years old (or 17, or whatever her age really is)

It is not clear to me that the girl has no license to drive - just that she is not licensed to drive in Thailand. That is certainly not good thing, given that she was driving. Again, in itself, driving without a license is not a capital offense. I would think that if she is licensed to drive in another country, and has substantial experience driving legally elsewhere, it might influence my opinion. It is not clear to me whether she has legal driving experience elsewhere. You seem to be absolutely certain that she is not legally licensed to drive elsewhere. You may be right. I have heard otherwise, but not from an unimpeachable source.

I think it is appropriate for the police to file charges against a suspect driver in a multi-homicide accident. that does not mean that the accused party is guilty. If you are so knowledgeable, please cite for me the exact citations in the charges filed against the Civic driver. I'll bet you don't know - so you are just making it up as you go. The charges may be "speeding" and "driving without a valid driver's license". So - in the big picture of crime in Thailand, just how significant are such charges?

Did either driver have alcohol in their blood? I have no idea - do you? Were all brakes, lighting systems, turn signals, etc. working properly on both vehicles?

Have you ever personally ridden in a Thai commuter van in Bangkok? I used to commute daily from Victory Monument to Chaeng Wattatna and back, in a nine-passenger van. Same commuter line, but maybe different vehicles and drivers, day to day. I'll tell you that I saw substantial bad driving, and I also rode is vans that had inoperable lights, broken windows, partially disintegrated windshield wipers, etc. I also saw good drivers, and clean, tidy vans. I suggest that you go down to Victory Monument, and just walk around and look at the vans. I'll bet you come back with a little more insight into just how likely it is that the van may have been less than pristine, and that the driver may have been less than blameless.

The Civic driver may have been the incarnation of evil, reckless, wanton behavior. But - I have seen and heard nothing to suggest that.

If I heard that a 16 year old girl was picked up for speeding, and driving without a valid license, nearby, it would not particularly even hold my attention. If I then heard that she was discovered because she was in a collision - it still would not grab my attention. I would not automatically assume that the girl CAUSED the accident. The fact that this scenario unfolded - and that people died in that accident - does not suddenly drive me to assume causality.

Co-occurrence does not necessarily mean causality - except, evidently, for you.

IS

[chuang]

You lot are a sad bunch. You all cry for justice, but are ready to pass your own judgement on this girl before she has been properly convicted.

And before you all get on your high horses about me defending her, I'm not..I'm quite happy for a court to decide whether she is guilty or not after reviewing all the facts and evidence (and not from reading newspaper reports like the wannabe judges on this forum)

Listen to yourselves almost baying for blood.. "lock her up, throw away the key" you say.. thank god you are not part of the legal system in any country.

This whole thing is a tradgedy.. for all involved.

totster

You are very right reference the above..let the court decides, she said it was an accident and she did not said it was not her fault.. stop being the judge, jury and the executioner..

[jfchandler]

I wouldn't call it particularly "humane" to see the woman on TV yesterday horribly disfigured in the Santika fire, and knowing she's been able to get almost nothing in the way of financial compensation and absolutely no (at least two year later) justice in the Thai criminal justice system...

I think it's reasonable to believe more progress would have been made for such a victim (and all the others) in either the civil and/or criminal fronts in the West, compared to what's occurred here.. How would you like to define "humane"?

Of course the western approach is more efficient, but it is less humane today

[Indo-Siam]

You my friend are singing the same chorus as a few others, Nothing that the civic driver, or her familyhave said or ..DONE.. seem inappropriate to me..................WHAT !!!!!!!!................my god AMAZING

You make a good point. My statement was not worded properly. What I should have written was:

"Nothing that the Civic driver, or her family have said or done, subsequent to the accident, seem inappropriate to me."

[shunima]

There comes a time where the "you no like here, you go back" logic should make some of the posters here think.

If it is so terrible here, why you are here then? Didn't you come here because you thought it's somehow nicer here than where you've been before? Or is this bitching and moaning just a part of your personalities you couldn't leave behind and you just too blind to see and acknowledge that.

If an executive authority would try to lock you up for something you obviously did and/but you would have the financial resources to get yourself out of it (and the system in place provides such option) then please don't tell me you wouldn't opt for that possibility. That is not Hi-So, that is called human behaviour. Once we fear that we might face harsh times we try to avoid them. There are just a few cases where the own guilt goes so deep, that one might decide to take the punishment just for the sake to be able to look into his/her own eyes.

Now that we have established that... If you don't have the financial resources and you complain about the so-called Hi-So using that option (happens by the way in the EU and the States too)then you are nothing else than a hypocrite.

I would agree with most of you if you would participate in threads to reform the jurisdiction in Thailand and to give good examples how a good judicial authority should be.

All what happens here is that you are living proof that it is good that the rule of law lies with an institution and not with the people. You act emotional, irrational and you condemn not on facts but on hearsay. (and yes, newpaper stuff is still hearsay, it doesn't come with an "approved" stamp from the investigating authority.) The judicial system here is flawed but it won't change a thing if you insist that an example is made. This is why they call it example, because it is not common practise.

The system in Thailand is far from fair and transparent but I prefer it at any time if the alternative would be to give the "prosecutors" in this forum the power to decide what's wrong and what's right.

Edited January 6, 2011 by shunima

[Tywais]

But here in Thailand, can private parties file a criminal case without the action of police or the public prosecutor???

Short answer, yes as I have personal experience with that and was surprised also.

[Losangels]

So which Honda model was she driving, City or Civic?

[Orac]

The girl was underage for driving. The girl didn't have a Thai or otherwise legal driver's license. The girl herself has admitted she was speeding. The Thai police, based on whatever inquiry and knowledge they have, have said they're going to file criminal charges against her for causing or at least contributing to the crash.

In my home country, I got my driver's license at age 16 - and drove from then on - as did most young people in my country. So - Driving at age 16 - in itself - does not strike me as big problem. At what age can young people obtain a driver's license in your country? Her age is not in itself a proximate cause of any harm - so I don't see the point in hanging her because she is 16 years old (or 17, or whatever her age really is)

It is not clear to me that the girl has no license to drive - just that she is not licensed to drive in Thailand. That is certainly not good thing, given that she was driving. Again, in itself, driving without a license is not a capital offense. I would think that if she is licensed to drive in another country, and has substantial experience driving legally elsewhere, it might influence my opinion. It is not clear to me whether she has legal driving experience elsewhere. You seem to be absolutely certain that she is not legally licensed to drive elsewhere. You may be right. I have heard otherwise, but not from an unimpeachable source.

I think it is appropriate for the police to file charges against a suspect driver in a multi-homicide accident. that does not mean that the accused party is guilty. If you are so knowledgeable, please cite for me the exact citations in the charges filed against the Civic driver. I'll bet you don't know - so you are just making it up as you go. The charges may be "speeding" and "driving without a valid driver's license". So - in the big picture of crime in Thailand, just how significant are such charges?

Did either driver have alcohol in their blood? I have no idea - do you? Were all brakes, lighting systems, turn signals, etc. working properly on both vehicles?

Have you ever personally ridden in a Thai commuter van in Bangkok? I used to commute daily from Victory Monument to Chaeng Wattatna and back, in a nine-passenger van. Same commuter line, but maybe different vehicles and drivers, day to day. I'll tell you that I saw substantial bad driving, and I also rode is vans that had inoperable lights, broken windows, partially disintegrated windshield wipers, etc. I also saw good drivers, and clean, tidy vans. I suggest that you go down to Victory Monument, and just walk around and look at the vans. I'll bet you come back with a little more insight into just how likely it is that the van may have been less than pristine, and that the driver may have been less than blameless.

The Civic driver may have been the incarnation of evil, reckless, wanton behavior. But - I have seen and heard nothing to suggest that.

If I heard that a 16 year old girl was picked up for speeding, and driving without a valid license, nearby, it would not particularly even hold my attention. If I then heard that she was discovered because she was in a collision - it still would not grab my attention. I would not automatically assume that the girl CAUSED the accident. The fact that this scenario unfolded - and that people died in that accident - does not suddenly drive me to assume causality.

Co-occurrence does not necessarily mean causality - except, evidently, for you.

IS

All very well but you are forgetting that she must be guilty with a name like that????

[jfchandler]

IS, you're not reading today's news, obviously. The newspapers quoted police saying they plan to charge the girl with driving without a license and reckless driving contributing to the death of others. I may not have the exact wording correct, but that's the general thrust...

The exact language used in The Nation report that leads this thread is:

It is not known whether the girl, whose age is now confirmed as 16 and a half, pleaded guilty or innocent to causing deaths and injuries through carelessness and driving without a licence.

The other media used somewhat different language, but had the same general notion re the charges.

Meanwhile, I've never said the driver/girl is evil or anything else... You seem to enjoy making up all kinds of things that aren't at all known as facts. I've said the girl should be prosecuted based on whatever facts are produced from the investigation and in accord with the legal standards of Thai law...

Whether you see or don't see good or bad drivers when traveling around town seems a bit irrelevant to a case in which 9 people have been killed.

Edited January 6, 2011 by jfchandler

[jfchandler]

It's not the "prosecutors" here who should decide what's right and wrong...

But, hopefully in this case, it will be a Thai criminal court judge who will decide whether the girl was wrong and if she's guilty of a legal offense.

I just hope the justice system, such as it is here, has a chance to play itself out in this case.

The system in Thailand is far from fair and transparent but I prefer it at any time if the alternative would be to give the "prosecuters" in this forum the power to decide what's wrong and what's right.

[jonclark]

There comes a time where the "you no like here, you go back" logic should make some of the posters here think.

What about the Thai posters - should they go back home??