World Court Invited By Red Shirts To Observe At Leaders' Trials

[webfact]

World Court invited by red shirts to observe trial

The World Court has been requested to send its officials to observe the Thai court trial of the red shirts facing charges of terrorism in connection with the recent political upheaval.

Thida Thawornseth, chairwoman of the red shirt movement, said Wednesdays that she had sent a letter to the International Court of Justice in The Hague of the Netherlands asking for observation of the court trial in Thailand.

"This is aimed at preventing the possibility of unfairness during the judicial proceeding and to helping spread facts and progress of the cases to the world in a straightforward way. This is to assure the Thais that the cases are tried fairly and democratically," Thida said.

-- The Nation 2011-01-06

[webfact]

Red shirts want foreign observers at leaders' trials

By THE NATION

The World Court has been asked to send officials to Thailand to observe the trial of the red shirts facing charges of terrorism in connection with last year's political upheaval.

Thida Thawornseth, chairwoman of the red-shirt movement, said yesterday that she had sent a letter to the International Court of Justice at The Hague in the Netherlands requesting observation of the trial.

"This is aimed at preventing the possibility of unfairness during the judicial proceeding and to help spread facts on its progress to the world in a straightforward way. This is to assure Thais that the cases are tried fairly and democratically," Thida said.

She said that although the Criminal Court had silenced red-shirt leader Jatuporn Promphan by ordering him not to comment publicly about the unrest in exchange for his temporary release, "there are more than 10 million other red shirts who can speak the truth about the killing of people by the Abhisit Vejjajiva government".

She was referring to the crackdown by government security forces on red-shirt protesters last April and May that led to 91 deaths and about 2,000 injuries. In addition to many protesters, the victims included soldiers, police, rescue workers, journalists, and passers-by.

Thida yesterday visited the seven red-shirt leaders being held at the Bangkok Remand Prison, including her husband weng Tojirakarn.

On Tuesday, the Criminal Court denied for the third time bail for the red-shirt leaders held for alleged terrorism and inciting unrest in connection with the bloody riots last April and May.

When Thida mentioned the court rejection of bail during her news conference yesterday, many red shirts present shouted angrily that there was no justice for them. The news conference was held at the red-shirt movement's office at the Imperial World department store's Lat Phrao branch.

Thida said she would consult with the red shirts' lawyers about an appeal against the court's decision. However, she added that she did not have much confidence they would get temporary release. She said Nattawut Saikua, one of the red-shirt leaders in remand, told her that fellow inmates were betting on which group would be released first - the seven red-shirt leaders or the seven Thais being held at a prison in the Cambodian capital Phnom Penh for illegal entry.

"I don't have much expectation. In the end, it depends on sincerity," she said.

"The red shirts' fight will not stop but we will use the right methods so that people in the country and the world will support us. We will not create bad things for the country."

Thida told the news conference that the red shirts would continue with their plan to hold a major rally on Sunday. She said there would be demonstrations every month "until the red shirts get justice and democracy is restored".

She said the red-shirt movement was undergoing restructuring of its organisation for "systematic advancement". Committees would be set up at the levels of region, province, zone, district, and tambon this month to allow a "big restructuring" next month.

-- The Nation 2011-01-06

[whybother]

She said that although the Criminal Court had silenced red-shirt leader Jatuporn Promphan by ordering him not to comment publicly about the unrest in exchange for his temporary release, "there are more than 10 million other red shirts who can speak the truth about the killing of people by the Abhisit Vejjajiva government".

I thought a majority of Thais supported the red shirts. Are they losing support or never had the support in the first place? Or is it 10 million can speak the truth and the rest can only speak lies?

Thida said she would consult with the red shirts' lawyers about an appeal against the court's decision. However, she added that she did not have much confidence they would get temporary release. She said Nattawut Saikua, one of the red-shirt leaders in remand, told her that fellow inmates were betting on which group would be released first - the seven red-shirt leaders or the seven Thais being held at a prison in the Cambodian capital Phnom Penh for illegal entry.

New double standards? Comparing cases in different countries for different crimes? Next they will be mentioning a case in Australia where a jaywalker was let off with a warning, and red shirts charged with terrorism in Thailand are still stuck in jail. Oh, the double standards.

"The red shirts' fight will not stop but we will use the right methods so that people in the country and the world will support us. We will not create bad things for the country."

As opposed to most of their other protests over the last few years where they have used the wrong methods and created bad things for the country. I still don't like their chances of the world supporting them though.

[siampolee]

In light of the blatant contempt and scorn that Thaksin had and no doubt still has for both the United Nations (They are not my father) and democracy it is indeed interesting to see how the sheeple in the puppet leadership of the Red Shirts bleat about justice.

Perhaps they need to be reminded of their acts of arson, looting and general vandalism, the invasion of a hospital the murder of elderly men in Chang Mai who opposed their views, the general chaos and interruption to daily life last year.

Justice is not in the vocabulary of the Red Shirt brothers.

[Xangsamhua]

I wonder if she could be more specific as to what they are fighting for and what their priorities are.

What is the order of priority:

To reinstate Thaksin Shinawatra, dropping all charges?

To reduce the influence of the amartya (who, specifically, and how?)?

To reduce the influence of local power brokers in the rural areas?

To set up people-power in the villages, with people's courts, etc?

To reform the taxation system so that the wealthy actually do pay taxes?

To reform the civil service, replacing the seniority principle by merit-based appointment and promotion?

To enable a free and genuine trade union movement to develop?

Etc, etc..

Is there a platform and set of policies one can peruse? Is there a foundational philosophy one can examine? Or is the UDD and its offshoots simply an inchoate expression of frustration with no positive proposals to offer and no agreed methodology?

I would genuinely like answers to these questions and other relevant ones.

[Xangsamhua]

While I'm at it, I've just noticed in an op ed site elsewhere reference to the circulation of elite theory of "political change described by Italian social scientist, Vilfredo Pareto (1848–1923).

Changes of regime, revolutions, and so on occur not when rulers are overthrown from below, but when one elite replaces another. The role of ordinary people in such transformation is not that of initiators or principal actors, but as followers and supporters of one elite or another."

(See Wikipedia: Circulation of elite)

Is what we're witnessing in Thailand a manifestation of this?

[whybother]

While I'm at it, I've just noticed in an op ed site elsewhere reference to the circulation of elite theory of "political change described by Italian social scientist, Vilfredo Pareto (1848–1923).

Changes of regime, revolutions, and so on occur not when rulers are overthrown from below, but when one elite replaces another. The role of ordinary people in such transformation is not that of initiators or principal actors, but as followers and supporters of one elite or another."

(See Wikipedia: Circulation of elite)

Is what we're witnessing in Thailand a manifestation of this?

No. What we are seeing in Thailand is a "Cultural Shift". Just ask CMF.

[hyperdimension]

"The red shirts' fight will not stop but we will use the right methods so that people in the country and the world will support us. We will not create bad things for the country."

The world court should watch the video above as preparation before witnessing the trials.

They should also probably watch the entire Thai Government media conference that was broadcast on 2010-05-23 (from which the video above was taken):

Part 1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogA_OctR2MM

[hyperdimension]

Part 2 & 3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmNNqCLfZ04

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5egGiwATA3M

[Buchholz]

Thida Thawornseth, chairwoman of the red shirt movement, said Wednesdays that she had sent a letter to the International Court of Justice in The Hague of the Netherlands asking for observation of the court trial in Thailand.

Apparently Thida is unaware that what she wants is not a function of the ICJ in The Hague, but, still, it might be good for a chuckle for whoever reviews their incoming correspondence. I'm sure they receive all sorts of lunatic letters.

Perhaps one of the younger Red Shirts could show the retired academician how to use the Internet in order to review their website and learn just what they do:

http://www.icj-cij.org/homepage/index.php?p1=0〈=en

It might save her and her organization from yet another embarrassment in a long line of embarrassments.

.

[richard10365]

I don't know why foreigners spend a lot of time debating online the finer nuances of Thai democracy. It's not like they can do anything about it. And if they do get involved and do something wrong in the process, they are held accountable and end up complaining they don't know they are being punished.

[hyperdimension]

I don't know why foreigners spend a lot of time debating online the finer nuances of Thai democracy. It's not like they can do anything about it.

The Thai friends and family around us learn from what we tell them. They then can make better informed decisions when they vote in elections, the results of which can affect both Thais and foreigners who either stay in or visit Thailand.

When you have bombs exploding in prominent locations in the city centre, it can affect anyone, whether it be Thais or foreigners.

[Xangsamhua]

I wonder if she could be more specific as to what they are fighting for and what their priorities are.

What is the order of priority:

To reinstate Thaksin Shinawatra, dropping all charges?

To reduce the influence of the amartya (who, specifically, and how?)?

To reduce the influence of local power brokers in the rural areas?

To set up people-power in the villages, with people's courts, etc?

To reform the taxation system so that the wealthy actually do pay taxes?

To reform the civil service, replacing the seniority principle by merit-based appointment and promotion?

To enable a free and genuine trade union movement to develop?

Etc, etc..

Is there a platform and set of policies one can peruse? Is there a foundational philosophy one can examine? Or is the UDD and its offshoots simply an inchoate expression of frustration with no positive proposals to offer and no agreed methodology?

I would genuinely like answers to these questions and other relevant ones.

560 people have viewed this thread, presumably including people who have some familiarity with the Red movement. No one has attempted a response to any part of my questions.

Are we to conclude, therefore, that the UDD and its offshoots have no platform, no policies and no implementation strategy, or that it's a secret?

I think it's reasonable to assume, despite Khun Thida's attempts to separate the Thaksin issues from the UDD's broader goals (whatever they are), that Red factions agree on the need to return Thailand to a pre-19 September 2006 status quo, i.e. 1997 Constitution in place and with Thaksin as caretaker PM, but I could be wrong, as there seem to be different understandings of what was actually in place just before the coup. Their strategy to achieve even these common goals is unclear, however. Thida acknowledges that they haven't worked and that new ones will be tried, and that they will be good for the country, but what are they and in what way will they be better for the country?

[hyperdimension]

All I hear are the chirping of crickets.

I think the truth is that they are not working for the people of Thailand or improving the country. Everyone in Thailand, including all UDD supporters, needs to realize this.

[Buchholz]

Jailed Red-shirt Member Cites Ailment to Seek Bail

The court office says the International Court of Justice has the right to observe the trial on terrorism charges against red-shirt elements at the request of their leader as the law requires any criminal case to be tried in a transparent manner.

Meanwhile, a detained red-shirt figure cites poor health to back his bail appeal.

Red-shirt element Phumkiti or Pichet Sujindathong, a co-defendant in terrorism case, testified before the Criminal Court that he has been found to be infected with Hepatitis C and has symptoms of high blood pressure and occasional arrhythmia, or irregular heartbeat, before being held at the Bangkok Remand Prison since May last year.

Phumkiti claimed he recently suffered recurring symptoms of chest pain and difficult breathing while the prison hospital has no specialist or cardiologist to meet his medical needs.

Therefore, he is requesting release on bail to seek treatment for his health condition.

Red-shirt core leader Nutthawut Saikua, who is also being held on remand, took the stand as a witness for Phumkiti.

Meanwhile, Deputy secretary general of the Office of the Court of Justice, Sarawut Benjathikul, said international agencies are permitted to send their representatives to monitor the trials of the red-shirt figures.

He cited Article 172 of the Criminal Procedure Code as requiring trials for criminal cases to be conducted in a transparent manner.

Sarawut's comment came in response to red-shirt acting chief Thida Thavornset's letter to the International Court of Justice, asking it to send a representative to observe the Thai court's handling of the terrorism case against the group's elements.

As for the bail requests for the detained red-shirt elements, Sarawut said the court will consider the petitions on a case by case basis.

He said the court's decision will rely on the severity of the charges, related evidence, circumstances of the case, credibility of the bail seekers, the possibility of the suspects fleeing and drawbacks after they are released.

Sarawut said although the Appeals Court's rejection of the bail request cannot be reversed, the defendants are eligible to keep petitioning.

-- Tan Network 2011-01-07

[Buchholz]

Red-shirt core leader Nutthawut Saikua, who is also being held on remand, took the stand as a witness for Phumkiti.

In light of below, I wonder how Nutthawut's testimony as a witness for his cellmate went?

18th May

The CRES also arrested a Black Shirt guard, Pichet Sukjiddathong (aka Phumkitti), who was General Seh Daeng’s closest aide and right-hand man. He was accused of terrorism;

during interrogation, he stated that Nutthawut was the primary person responsible for ordering violence.

[dominique355]

Here is the jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice:

The International Court of Justice acts as a world court. The Court has a dual jurisdiction : it decides, in accordance with international law, disputes of a legal nature that are submitted to it by States (jurisdiction in contentious cases); and it gives advisory opinions on legal questions at the request of the organs of the United Nations or specialized agencies authorized to make such a request (advisory jurisdiction).

Perhaps someone can bring this to Khun Thida's attention.

Unless of course she knows that and the whole thing is just a publicity gag.

After all, she has asked that the cases are being treated fairly and "democratically". "Democratically"? What has this to do with democracy? But then again, the Red Shirts have a somewhat queer understanding of democracy.

[SomTumTiger]

I am sure the World Court will "Call her back" soon.

[rubl]

From the OP:

Meanwhile, Deputy secretary general of the Office of the Court of Justice, Sarawut Benjathikul, said international agencies are permitted to send their representatives to monitor the trials of the red-shirt figures.

He cited Article 172 of the Criminal Procedure Code as requiring trials for criminal cases to be conducted in a transparent manner.

Can someone tell me if this means that I being a 'legal alien' in Thailand, am allowed to be present during the trials ? I guess I only need to bring my personal translator to make sure I get the finer nuances in the Thai legal language