Best Combo Of Safety And Value Cars

[amykat]

Okay, I am quite paranoid about car safety, road accidents, etc. Previous to my life in Thailand, I chose my cars, basically on safety reports that various consumer/insurance protection agencies put out. I study those, decide, go and buy. So, for most of my adult life I have been lucky enough to be able to drive various larger sized, Volvos, Mercedes, or Saabs. Lucky for me, I am from a country that doesn't tax the hell out of cars, or imports, gas. And I spent several hours a day, up to 5, in a car, so this was important to me.

The first and only car I have bought in Thailand, was a new, top of the line (whatever that is) Vios, because it came with one airbag (back in 2004/2005) and wasn't taxed like crazy. I don't drive much here. However, since then, I have had a child, and will most likely, in 2012, start driving maybe 60 klm a day, to take my daughter to school and back. I haven't adapted well in Thailand to the driving on the opposite side of everything ...to me, wrong side of the car, wrong side of the road, windshield wipers/turn signals reversed, stick shift, which I can do easily in my country, is a burden to me here, etc. In fact it has made driving in my home country a nightmare too, because I always think I am on the wrong side of the road, no matter where I am! I STILL go to the wrong side of the car to get in, either as passenger or driver! And I seem to have a problem judging distance on the passenger side of the car in Thailand ...so I freak out a bit on small roads, and worry the larger the car, the worse it will be. I can't explain this problem, I don't have it in my own country and feel I can trust my feeling down to the last inch or so, but here I need an extra 1-2 feet??

So, to those of you who love cars, and know about this stuff, what would be a good car to change to, in maybe a year or so? For example, used vs. new, maybe in the case of a more luxury brand ...maybe there are a fair number of second hand, 2-3 year old luxury models available that are reasonably priced ...since we seem to have a lot of people here who can afford a car for a year, and then cannot? On the other hand, there seems to be more and more safety things added to cars, so if you get too old of a car, they probably won't have the maximum amount of airbags. But what is better, for example, and older Mercedes, Volvo, with 2 airbags, or a Japanese car, with 6 airbags? Seems to me, the best choice, is the best, most safe car, made somewhat in Thailand, in order to avoid the taxes, but what is that?

Also, overalll, you hear that SIZE matters, but size means a lot larger gas bills, every month. Is it better to be in a larger, huge car/truck/SUV, with less airbags, or better to be in a smaller thing, with more airbags? Then you have to balance this with the tax problems here, right? This tax things really bothers me, because it is NO value for money. Thai people may not realize, that in other countries, a Honda/Toyota/Maxda, whatever, are all the same class, but only due to taxes in Thailand, they seem to have more status? So they happily hand over large amounts of money for a Honda Civic, which is really a low class car? But I don't care, if it is really a lot more safe, but is it? Is it 200% more safe than a Vios? I noticed this 16 year old girl in BKK, who maybe caused the crash/death of 9 people, that she was in a Honda Civic ...the airbags went off, and she was basically perfectly fine, as compared to the others, who all may have gone out the windows. Is that seat belts, or airbags, or both?

Cost matters to me, especially with the huge taxes here, and the status of the car, doesn't matter to me at all, in fact I think it is a negative for me, to look like I am rich/richer. However, would I rather save $20K USD, and be dead ...NO ...be disabled, NO. But do I want to spent as much as I did on my home, (3 million baht) to have a decent car? Not really. I think it sucks here, that Thailand in some very direct ways, is taxing safey! And how will this affect a child? I mean, now she is in the back seat, with a child seat, and too young for airbags to protect her ..maybe not side airbags? So between the ages of 6 years, until what ...usually I like to think I keep a car for near to 10 years ...so is she safer with whatever I buy from 6 until 16?

So, if you balance all of these concerns, what is the best car to buy in Thailand? Thanks for your help!

[MikeyIdea]

Hi amycat,

Good opening post. May I say that I think you are on the wrong track...

It is not the car that will provide the best possible safety for your child, it is the driver! It is YOU? The child should be restrained, preferrably in the back seat too as it is safer but I accept restrained in the front seat too. I am not as hard as you are on safety but I love my daughter as much as you do - I assume that we both love our kid so much that there are no words to describe the feeling

I am 99.99% of the safety provided when I take my girl to school, I am the driver, it is my responsibility and I think that I can do a lot, really a lot! to make the drive safe. I drive passively, concentrated, have background concentration on all the time (can't relax behind the wheel like in Europe here), drive with safety as priority number one at all times (westerners tend to think that the law is more important than the actual safety of the situation, Thais dont), use your common sense and safety as priority number one always AND drive like the Thais do if / when that is safer to do so regardless of the law.

Thais really try to avoid accidents, if you do the same then you will be fine - But it sounds like you need more training

amycat, it's not the car. Your Vios is fine, I have taken my 6 year old daughter by car to over 50 provinces in Thailand and it's a Toyota Avanza, no airbag on the passenger seat

Good Luck

[Velocette]

Hi Amycat,

You say that using the stickshift is a burden for you, I would suggest that getting an automatic would remove a great deal of that stress, and leave you more relaxed to focus on observation and driving. If you have any doubts about the benefits of an auto, you could always hire one.

[MoonRiverOasis]

First, you don't have the top of the range VIOS as it has always come with both Auto transmission and dual front airbags (both S and G grades), so what you have is a lower 'E' badged model. Based on that, you're currently driving a 3-star safety rated car, which is the lowest allowable passenger car safety rating in most Western countries.

Safety technology improves leaps and bounds with each new car generation, so pretty much any current model car will be safer, even a Nissan March with dual front airbags rates a full star higher for occupant safety.

However, crash test ratings like these only tell the story for single vehicle accidents - as soon as one or more other vehicles are involved, it really just boils down to not much more than a boxing match - where a heavyweight will always win over a flyweight. If a 4-star 1600KG pickup (or 2000KG SUV) crashes with a 4-star B segment weighing 1000KG, you can almost guarantee the occupants of the smaller car will come of worse, much worse, every time.

Thailand's roads have an unusual mix of vehicles - nationally, the roads are shared almost equally between heavier and higher pickups/SUV's and lighter/lower passenger cars. In some provinces the ratio of pickups to passenger cars is 80:20 and more. Assuming all drivers are of equal skill, that means you have anywhere from 50% to 80% chance of coming to grief with a vehicle weighing in at 1600KG or more.

Then there's impact zones to consider. over the past few years, high-riding pickups and SUV's have exploded in popularity, and this trend will only continue in the next generation of vehicles. When these high-riding vehicles meet lower B and C segment cars, they do so well above the height of most of the engineered crumple and intrusion protected zones, reducing, and in some cases (particularly side impacts) totally compromising their protective features.

The bottom line is that a bigger car with a the same crash rating as a smaller car, is a safer car.

Then there's active safety features to consider - in Thailand the most available of these is active stability control. Features such as these improve emergency maneuverability substantially, giving you more control to avoid some selected types of accidents (many are simply not avoidable though).

With all this in mind, here's a short list of the current safest cars on the Thai market (<2M Baht):

B Segment:

• Ford Fiesta 'Trend" - available with dual front airbags and active stability control, from 644,000 Baht
• Mazda 3 'Maxx' - available with 6 airbags from 966,000 Baht

PPV/SUV:

• Honda CR-V - available with front and side airbags, from 1.13M Baht
• Toyota Fortuner - available with dual front airbags and active stability control, from 1.18M Baht
• Chevrolet Captiva - available with dual front airbags and active stability control, from 1.58M Baht

[amykat]

Hi Moon River,

Thanks for your answer. I do think I have the top of the line VIOS, that was available at the time. It is automatic, and called a VIOS 1.5S WTI, although it won't shock me if they lied, the dealer spent weeks trying to get me to buy a model I didn't want at all, that they had in stock, while they held my money and pretended they ordered the model I asked for

About 6 months after I bought this car, it was in a large flood in my city, sitting totally under water, for 3 days. The insurance company, I believe, did nothing, other than try to scam me out of some cash to pay for wheel bearing something, which they claimed would need doing anyway, but since I had only 1500 klm on the car, I disagreed. Well my lack of paying up some cash, might have caused problems, (sure seemed to piss off my "Thai friends" who were "helping me") and they kept my car for 3 months, and not sure they did anything at all.

So I have been extra worried all this time, that my car might turn into a pile of rust/dust, if I have an accident, although it runs fine.

Edited January 6, 2011 by amykat

[MoonRiverOasis]

I do think I have the top of the line VIOS, that was available at the time. It is automatic, and called a VIOS 1.5S WTI,

Apologies, along with Velocette I was thrown off by this:

stick shift, which I can do easily in my country, is a burden to me here

In any case, the original Soluna VIOS is a 3-star car in S,G and E forms, only the "J" Badge fares worse due to no airbags or ABS, so the comparisons made still stand.

One other note - due to the disparity between gasoline and diesel prices, a typical 1.5 or 1.6L compact actually costs around the same Baht per KM to run as a 2.5L turbo diesel, so while they might (quite literally) be twice the car, they're no more expensive to run.

[katabeachbum]

I do think I have the top of the line VIOS, that was available at the time. It is automatic, and called a VIOS 1.5S WTI,

Apologies, along with Velocette I was thrown off by this:

stick shift, which I can do easily in my country, is a burden to me here

In any case, the original Soluna VIOS is a 3-star car in S,G and E forms, only the "J" Badge fares worse due to no airbags or ABS, so the comparisons made still stand.

One other note - due to the disparity between gasoline and diesel prices, a typical 1.5 or 1.6L compact actually costs around the same Baht per KM to run as a 2.5L turbo diesel, so while they might (quite literally) be twice the car, they're no more expensive to run.

having owned Yaris, which is basicly same car as todays Vios, and Vigo 3,0D 4x4 auto 4 door at the same time, I d say

Fuel costs same, Vigo needs 10% more fuel, but at lower cost(diesel)

Maintance less for Yaris/Vios, at least initial 100k km

Insurance slightly less for Yaris/Vios

Price of purchase, 250k more for Vigo(950k baht)

Safety,

active, nothing beats electronics to keep a vehicle on the road, and this Vigo comes with VSC as the only pickup in LOS

passive, Yaris is basicly nothing left after a crash in 80 kmh, so airbags is a waste at this speed.

Vigo has rather high HIC, but passenger cage is mostly intact in a 80 kmh crash and chance of survical is fairly good

Mitsus 2wd pickup, 4 door offers similar crash safety as Vigo at a lower price, but lacks the active safety Vehicle stability control

These 2 pickups SUV cousins, Fortuner and Pajero Sport, are couple of hundred k baht more expensive in LOS, due to higher excice taxes. They are slightly shorter, so more easy to park, and they seat 7 people

[amykat]

Sorry I confused anyone with the stick shift thing ...I rented some cars here before I was living here full time, and got the experience, of adding the shifting into the cluster fruck, of everything being backwards, reversed for me, along with all the other problems that make driving more difficult here. I just mentioned that because saving fuel by buying a manual transmission, isn't a good option me.

Thanks very much for listing all this info for me, and telling me about the diesel deal, I didn't know that.

So, overall, it looks like I should go with an SUV sort of thing and skip the sedan style cars.

I read somewhere yesterday that Mercedes was making an E class, car in Thailand, called a "CKD"? I looked on the Mercedes website and didn't find that model. Does anyone know what that is or the approximate price? Then I read the list of safety features on an E class wagon style, forget the name, but that sure made me jealous!

Thanks Mikey also, for trying to make me feel better about my current car, but I do disagree that being a good/safe driver is enough protection. Many accidents surely have nothing to do with the driver, you can just be sitting a light, and some other vehicle can plow into you, a drunk driver might suddenly weave over to the wrong side of the road, and cause a head-on collision, a truck can jack-knife right in front of you, next to you, and slide across the whole highway (which has happened to me in my home country.) Once a wheel/tire came off of a car on the other side of a highway, bounced over the wall, and plus/minus one second, would have bounced again onto my car ...I just happend to drive under it ...we just can't control all of these things.

Anyway, thanks a lot everyone for your answers!

[katabeachbum]

Sorry I confused anyone with the stick shift thing ...I rented some cars here before I was living here full time, and got the experience, of adding the shifting into the cluster fruck, of everything being backwards, reversed for me, along with all the other problems that make driving more difficult here. I just mentioned that because saving fuel by buying a manual transmission, isn't a good option me.

Thanks very much for listing all this info for me, and telling me about the diesel deal, I didn't know that.

So, overall, it looks like I should go with an SUV sort of thing and skip the sedan style cars.

I read somewhere yesterday that Mercedes was making an E class, car in Thailand, called a "CKD"? I looked on the Mercedes website and didn't find that model. Does anyone know what that is or the approximate price? Then I read the list of safety features on an E class wagon style, forget the name, but that sure made me jealous!

Thanks Mikey also, for trying to make me feel better about my current car, but I do disagree that being a good/safe driver is enough protection. Many accidents surely have nothing to do with the driver, you can just be sitting a light, and some other vehicle can plow into you, a drunk driver might suddenly weave over to the wrong side of the road, and cause a head-on collision, a truck can jack-knife right in front of you, next to you, and slide across the whole highway (which has happened to me in my home country.) Once a wheel/tire came off of a car on the other side of a highway, bounced over the wall, and plus/minus one second, would have bounced again onto my car ...I just happend to drive under it ...we just can't control all of these things.

Anyway, thanks a lot everyone for your answers!

CKD in Thai, means a car is Completely Knocked Down (imported as parts) arriving Thailand, and then assembled here. BMW, Benz, Volvo

as opposite to the japs, like Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Isuzu, buit in Thailand from mostly Thai made parts, making them less expensive

[FarangBuddha]

Safety and "value" in cars don't really go together in Thailand from decade of living here...unless you value your life very very highly. The safest cars are the Euro-imports (especially larger Volvos) and they cost a mint compared to "back home." Maybe best to go with a large top-line Fortuner or Pajero, with the extra safety and road-handling features they offer, and hope that they, and the vehicles mass, put you out on top in any confrontation with another driver's vehicle (of course, nothing's gonna help you if that confrontation is with a bus or large truck).

[katabeachbum]

Safety and "value" in cars don't really go together in Thailand from decade of living here...unless you value your life very very highly. The safest cars are the Euro-imports (especially larger Volvos) and they cost a mint compared to "back home." Maybe best to go with a large top-line Fortuner or Pajero, with the extra safety and road-handling features they offer, and hope that they, and the vehicles mass, put you out on top in any confrontation with another driver's vehicle (of course, nothing's gonna help you if that confrontation is with a bus or large truck).

you mean the Thai made Euro cars like Volvo, Benz and BMW. Yes they are among the safest in the world, but at 3 times or more a japs Thai SUV like Fortuner or Pajero Sport, or even less expensive and equally safe Vigo and Triton

[transam]

Buy a late or new Fortuner then quit worrying eh.

[Who, me ?]

Buy a late or new Fortuner then quit worrying eh.

.............And become the king of the road in front of whom everyone has to bow and give way..................

As for safety, I am not really sure that Fortuner is THE solution. It is after all a wannabe SUV built on a pick up truck platform, with a bit of make up. Brakes are far from reliable, given the weight of the "monster".

[transam]

Buy a late or new Fortuner then quit worrying eh.

.............And become the king of the road in front of whom everyone has to bow and give way..................

As for safety, I am not really sure that Fortuner is THE solution. It is after all a wannabe SUV built on a pick up truck platform, with a bit of make up. Brakes are far from reliable, given the weight of the "monster".

Bit of a daft post. King of the road, hmmmm, you are saying Fortuner drivers are all of the same mindset, bit like those who drive big powerful cars have small dicks, in YOUR eyes that is.

Fortuner has a different designed platform to a Vigo, it's also shorter which makes it safer and has stabilising soft/hardware. Think you are confusing it with an MU7.

2009 up Fortuner/Vigo have better brakes but even before had better brakes than other SUV's have now.

.Reliable brakes, eeer, they either work or they do not, never heard of Fortuner/Vigo brake failure.

My 2007 Vigo. Yesterday, up country a dog run across the road in front of me into the path of an oncoming car which braked, the bastard dog stopped turned and run back in front if me, me doing around 70kmh. I slammed on the anchors, it stopped in no time, no skidding and stayed in a straight line to a stop. .

[katabeachbum]

Buy a late or new Fortuner then quit worrying eh.

.............And become the king of the road in front of whom everyone has to bow and give way..................

As for safety, I am not really sure that Fortuner is THE solution. It is after all a wannabe SUV built on a pick up truck platform, with a bit of make up. Brakes are far from reliable, given the weight of the "monster".

Fortuner/Vigo Nov 2008 and later, brakes on par with Benz S classe, thats 44 meters from 100-0 kmh. Porsche Cayenne slightly better tho

[transam]

Buy a late or new Fortuner then quit worrying eh.

.............And become the king of the road in front of whom everyone has to bow and give way..................

As for safety, I am not really sure that Fortuner is THE solution. It is after all a wannabe SUV built on a pick up truck platform, with a bit of make up. Brakes are far from reliable, given the weight of the "monster".

Fortuner/Vigo Nov 2008 and later, brakes on par with Benz S classe, thats 44 meters from 100-0 kmh. Porsche Cayenne slightly better tho

That will please MRO, though l am sure he knows it.

[MoonRiverOasis]

Fortuner/Vigo Nov 2008 and later, brakes on par with Benz S classe, thats 44 meters from 100-0 kmh. Porsche Cayenne slightly better tho

That will please MRO, though l am sure he knows it.

Hehehe 33 meters actually

[transam]

Fortuner/Vigo Nov 2008 and later, brakes on par with Benz S classe, thats 44 meters from 100-0 kmh. Porsche Cayenne slightly better tho

That will please MRO, though l am sure he knows it.

Hehehe 33 meters actually

Show off.

[katabeachbum]

Fortuner/Vigo Nov 2008 and later, brakes on par with Benz S classe, thats 44 meters from 100-0 kmh. Porsche Cayenne slightly better tho

That will please MRO, though l am sure he knows it.

Hehehe 33 meters actually

3-500k baht spendt on brakes, tyres and rims does make a difference

oh forgot, last gen Bosch ABS helps too

[Histavia]

BTW - size doesn't actually matter.<br>It is a factor but it it the DESIGN of the vehicle - the way it behaves in a collision or other situations that is important.<br>Sedans like Mercs and Volvos are intrinsically safe as are many of the smaller sedans but don't be conned by the "pickups-are-safe-because-they're-big" brigade - that is a fallacy<br>

[H2oDunc]

active, nothing beats electronics to keep a vehicle on the road, and this Vigo comes with VSC as the only pickup in LOS

Sorry but the biggest safety factor there is in any vehicle is the flesh and blood person behind the wheel. Give a safety concious person a vehicle with no electronic safety features and as long as it is driven slowly and with care you will be fine.

Jump in a car which is laden with them and some people feel immune from any danger and so drive as such.

A car is only as safe as how it is driven and it is as simple as that!

The same goes for motorcycles !

[Kwasaki]

active, nothing beats electronics to keep a vehicle on the road, and this Vigo comes with VSC as the only pickup in LOS

Sorry but the biggest safety factor there is in any vehicle is the flesh and blood person behind the wheel. Give a safety concious person a vehicle with no electronic safety features and as long as it is driven slowly and with care you will be fine.

Jump in a car which is laden with them and some people feel immune from any danger and so drive as such.

A car is only as safe as how it is driven and it is as simple as that!

The same goes for motorcycles !

Well said, I think the OP will die from worry rather from any car accident, him saying he is paranoid is right but I say unjustifled.

And, Oh well to hell with it, with respect, going from Mercs, Volvos and Saabs and then you buy a Vios don't wash with me sorry to be a bit hard line but If you have no confidents in your driving abillities on the roads in Thailand you should not be on them.

What you want is this :- :lol:

Lighten up man drive safely like the Thai people do and like them may your God go with you if you believe in one.

[Frozen]

drive safely like the Thai people do

[Kwasaki]

drive safely like the Thai people do

Your welcome.

[babykyo]

Buy a late or new Fortuner then quit worrying eh.

.............And become the king of the road in front of whom everyone has to bow and give way..................

As for safety, I am not really sure that Fortuner is THE solution. It is after all a wannabe SUV built on a pick up truck platform, with a bit of make up. Brakes are far from reliable, given the weight of the "monster".

Fortuner/Vigo Nov 2008 and later, brakes on par with Benz S classe, thats 44 meters from 100-0 kmh. Porsche Cayenne slightly better tho

That will please MRO, though l am sure he knows it.

When I sit on a J model 2 seater basic pickup truck, I think I am a driving a fortuner. And when i seated on a fortuner, oh my god, I think I am driving a basic J model pickup truck, they are the same in the console. I totally agreed with you. A fortuner is a WANNEBE SUV built on a pickup truck platform. Not is big deal.

Edited April 24, 2011 by babykyo

[Histavia]

Apart from the driver - and let's face none of us are impervious to human error, the vehicle is the next factor in safety that you have any real control over.

Essentially there are 2 kinds of safety features on vehicles - active and passive - and these have little to do with the vehicle’s mass, but rely on its behavior before during and after any mishap on the road. Minor accidents have a tendency to mask the REAL problems involved in collisions or loosing control of your vehicle - its when they get serious that the vehicle shows it's real colors.

comparing cars and pickups to tanks is schoolboy physics and demonstrates little or no understanding of the issues surrounding road safety.

What is important is how the car protects its passengers and does least damage to other road users - you can see a tank would fall very short on the latter issue and in fact has huge shortcomings on the former, quite apart from being a totally impractical vehicle.

Road safety is a compromise. If your car never moves or goes onto a road it is very unlikely to be in an accident, but like the tank this is a puerile example and has nothing to do with the practicalities of motoring.

most "accidents" occur with 10 kilometres of home. no-one is ever 100% to blame, a combination of mistakes/failings by all drivers involved (even passengers!) leads to disaster. when this happens control of the vehicle is usually no longer in the hands of the driver, so what happens next is down to the construction and design of your vehicle. Regulations in US. Japan and Europe have dictated how "family" sedans are built, but commercial vehicles and their derivatives were allowed to slip through the net. This includes the ubiquitous SUV and pickup truck which now seriously lag behind in safety features and most worryingly the basic design concept. Their simplistic construction makes them ideal from a point of view of manufacturing and costs (especially with regards to countries with an abundance of cheap labor), but it does mean they will inevitably fall short in the safety stakes. How much this should affect your decision-making when buying a vehicle is really up to you....as balance of usage, performance, convenience, safety and cost.

[Kwasaki]

'Histavia' disagree trucks are safer than many cars and there are guys on here who have survived to prove it.

There other threads on this kind safety thing and the main point is still being missed.

[wandrinstar]

All my Friends who went for Safe Cars drowned whilst swimming.

[katabeachbum]

'Histavia' disagree trucks are safer than many cars and there are guys on here who have survived to prove it.

There other threads on this kind safety thing and the main point is still being missed.

Histavia disagrees with himself

"What is important is how the car protects its passenegers....."

Any Thai sold pickup/suv with 2 airbags has better passenger protection, due to large deformation sones and strong passenger case, than any car less than 3 million baht sold in Thailand. In addition any highrised/4x4 pickup/suv has the advantage of carrying passengers higher over road surface, reducing impact on passengers in side crash.

In barrier crashes at 55 kmh most cars do well, and 4-5 stars is almost the norm. In Thailand more than 70% of the vehicles on highways are 2-3 tons pickups or larger, and most cars are crushed to nothing in an impact with vehicle weighing more than double cars weight.

[culicine]

'Histavia' disagree trucks are safer than many cars and there are guys on here who have survived to prove it.

There other threads on this kind safety thing and the main point is still being missed.

Histavia disagrees with himself

"What is important is how the car protects its passenegers....."

Any Thai sold pickup/suv with 2 airbags has better passenger protection, due to large deformation sones and strong passenger case, than any car less than 3 million baht sold in Thailand. In addition any highrised/4x4 pickup/suv has the advantage of carrying passengers higher over road surface, reducing impact on passengers in side crash.

In barrier crashes at 55 kmh most cars do well, and 4-5 stars is almost the norm. In Thailand more than 70% of the vehicles on highways are 2-3 tons pickups or larger, and most cars are crushed to nothing in an impact with vehicle weighing more than double cars weight.

While I don't disagree with what you say, what is the reality regarding the percentage of accidents involving pickups vs cars? It could well be that cars and their drivers are more likely to avoid accidents than those driving pickups. I really did feel less safe driving a triton than my own car. It had awful brakes, had a high centre of gravity and was much less maneuverable than my own car - I couldn't just flick it around on twisty roads. Many of the accidents I see on the roads here involve pickups, but that could involve both drivers (their education) and their vehicle. Perhaps pickup drivers feel more invincible than those in cars. I certainly take it a lot more easy than those driving pickups at 150km/h going by me! But really I would love to see some official stats of accidents involving pickups vs passenger cars.