Difference In Riding A Cruiser And A Sport Bike

[katabeachbum]

Now Now floridaguy

Whats this about you jumping ship? or should I say jumping bikes? And here I was looking up to you for riding choppers.

I did get that Honda Fury and love it. Trouble is I have spent half again as much on chrome parts pipes grill accent LEDs lowering kit new forwards and the list goes on.

Anyway it looks like you have a lot of very good advise I hope you find something that fits you as far as comfort goes.

No, not jumping, more like straddling. Haha. I realized that there is no reason I shouldn't try a sport bike. I am the kind of guy that likes all things, and I like to keep my options open. In the US I have a big obnoxious SUV, and a fast and sexy sports car. I love having the option of either one on any given day. I have always had some kind of SUV and some kind of smaller faster car since I was 16. So I thought, I already have a couple of loud obnoxious choppers, why not try a sexy and fast sports bike? I guess that is probably the reason that I can't decide on any one particular woman.......

Glad you like the Fury. I still love my choppers, but I just gotta scratch the itch and try a fast bike.

Thats an open mind biker

1800cc cruiser, TMax 500 auto and sportsbikes, all great fun

[Kwasaki]

Any advice on type of bike to look for? I am looking for at least a 600 to test, but would really like to own a liter bike when I buy.

Always nice to have a variety in the stable but I would caution you about going straight to a 160-200Hp 1000cc sport bike if most of your riding experience has been on low powered cruisers...

The bikes you ride now are very tame- if you twist your wrist nothing much will happen.

A liter bike requires a lot more skill and finesse and will spit you off in a split second if you screw up.

My personal recomendation- start off renting an ER6n / Ninja 650R as they are sporty, but not supersport and are very forgiving and easy to ride. If you enjoy the EX650 try a "real" sport bike, like an R6 or CBR600 and see how that goes.

Remember that riding a sport or supersport is totally different from riding a cruiser. Hold the tank with your knees and use your core muscles to support your weight. Do NOT put weight on your arms and wrists- a common mistake that will make riding a sport bike very uncomfortable. If ridden correctly a sport bike can be very comfortable and you will enjoy far superior acceleration, braking and handling compared to the cruisers you are riding now.

Ride On!

Tony

+1 good advice take it. There's a great differents in what you have now to what you are going for.

Ride to live. K

[Garry]

Well guys, after all the great advice, I was unfortunately called back to BKK without having a chance to test out a bike. On the ride back, I realized that I know of 2 or 3 rental places in Pattaya, but not one in BKK. Any decent places around the Sukhumvit area that rents some bikes less than 2 years old? Now that my business is done today, I would like to rent one or two this weekend.

Let us know how you go buddy....seat of the pants feel wise. Take your time though, as the beasties can bight you on the arse real quick.

had a friend of my wife ask me the other day why my bike only has one seat, you cannot have a passenger. I said 'exactly.......' positive she walked wondering what made me buy a single seater

[mca]

Always nice to have a variety in the stable but I would caution you about going straight to a 160-200Hp 1000cc sport bike if most of your riding experience has been on low powered cruisers...

The bikes you ride now are very tame- if you twist your wrist nothing much will happen.

A liter bike requires a lot more skill and finesse and will spit you off in a split second if you screw up.

My personal recomendation- start off renting an ER6n / Ninja 650R as they are sporty, but not supersport and are very forgiving and easy to ride. If you enjoy the EX650 try a "real" sport bike, like an R6 or CBR600 and see how that goes.

I agree. Last year I went home and my pal let me take a spin ( or scared crawl in my case) on his ZZR1400. Now considering the last bike I owned was a mid-90s CBR900 before moving to LOS I nearly shit myself even without winding it open all the way. Bloody monster. I reckon if I went back to biking in Thailand an ER6n would fit the bill as a stepping stone to serious metal and then see how it went.

[BangkokBikeRental]

Well guys, after all the great advice, I was unfortunately called back to BKK without having a chance to test out a bike. On the ride back, I realized that I know of 2 or 3 rental places in Pattaya, but not one in BKK. Any decent places around the Sukhumvit area that rents some bikes less than 2 years old? Now that my business is done today, I would like to rent one or two this weekend.

not sure if they still there

http://www.bangkokbikesrental.com

Just seen this old post,

Thanks to link BBR Hili,we are still there ,since 2009 and will stay in Bangkok for a while with good and well maintained insured motorcycles for rent and sale.

Thanks again

Kif

[RusticCharm]

My GF is 155

Bloody old for a GF, especially in Thailand!

[katabeachbum]

My GF is 155

Bloody old for a GF, especially in Thailand!

She ages well

Looks like you need to read up on Forum rules on how to quote

[CMX]

My GF is 155

Bloody old for a GF, especially in Thailand!

She ages well

Looks like you need to read up on Forum rules on how to quote

I do not know if this applies, but in the United States we maintain a quaint, if ancient, set of measurements. For height, for example, we use a system in which a one unit, called an inch, can be divided by halves, quarters, eighths, sixteenths and so forth, while the inch must be multiplied by a 12 to for some reason. get to the next largest unit and that unit (called a 'foot' - and there are stories about this name) three times again to arrive at a 'yard' - which is less than a meter. Believe it or not, there are 5,280 of these 'feet' to make a 'mile.' Liquid and weights are just as idiotic.

Thus, to assist these limited and unworldly types, it's really only fair to list the sensible unit (cm in this case) so that they cannot pretend to misunderstand it.

Curiously, measurements of length have something to do with the Cruiser vs Sport Bike selection. Only the United States and Oz have lands so vast that with modern roads and temperatures suitable for long distance cruisin'. So I, for example, have always been happy with cruisers.

[RusticCharm]

My GF is 155

Bloody old for a GF, especially in Thailand!

She ages well

Looks like you need to read up on Forum rules on how to quote

Chill Winston! Just having a laugh.

Sigh!

[Tibo27]

It's really cool you got the chance to try a sportbike. Basically a bike is a bike in a sense that no matter what you ride, if you love it, you'll enjoy it. Size doesn't matter....

However and especially here inThailand since they are very affordable, Kawasaki ER6's range were categorized in sportbike but are definitively not sportbike. They are what we call midsize naked bike. Kawasaki had the smart idea to put a twin in it o with only 76hp, you already have a very reactive engine. Those ER6/NInja are awesome bike and not only for beginners.

They are often categorized as beginners bike because of their "low" power, cheap equipment and riding position. However in good hands, this can be a very sharp tool.

But riding a ER6 will NOT give you a taste of a sportbike. Position is as I said, a naked bike position. Of course, jump off the chopper and the little kawa will feel like Rossi's bike. Here in Thailand they have market this bike as an "affordable sportbike" which is simply ridiculous. And I respect that bike a lot, again impressed me a lot, but it is only a marketing tool to say it has a "sport" hidden side in it. It just ain't.

Getting used to sportbike and riding them every day is, however, very doable. I will not advise a 600RR or gex600 for a start but the wonderful VFR400 (NC30) or RVF400 (NC35) is still THE best accessible sportbike you can find. It gives you everything you want to make your own opinion : the real sportbike position, a high revs engine, precise braking and very few assistance which is, IMHO the best way to learn (and it does NOT mean dangerous). Those brakes are still way better than what you might have on your chopper (no offense) so the trick will be to get used to it.

A sportbike isn't only about position, it is multiple caracteristics that makes it sporty. Brakes are usually very sensitive and progressive which is often surprising after a mid range bike like the ER6. Again, ER6 has good brakes, but you don't brake the sam eon a sportbike. Your body will be pushed forward much harder while braking on a sportbike and sterring will be affected. Get into a corner while braking and the bike will stand up (more or less depending on the bike). This is way less obvious on nakedbike. Again, doesn't mean sportbike are bad, just that you have to be aware that you don't ride them the same way. A sportbike needs you to balance your body more than other bikes. Beginners usually get affraid of that because they feel the bike isn't docile. It is true in a way, sportbike requires more "body balance" then basic bikes.

But again it is the image we have of them, because especially today, sportbikes are very easy to ride. I am not saying hitting the track and bringing doing fast laps, I am saying going for a sunday ride with friend is finally very easy. The only problem, it is the bike will always tempted you to open the throttle. Because let's face it, at one point you will realize you are on a rocket ship, and well... you want to know what it is like.

So no particular advices here, seemed to are a intelligent rider and know what you want. All bikes can be ride but not all in a different way

Ride safe and enjoy ANY BIKE !

Tibo

Edited July 1, 2011 by Tibo27

[BigBikeBKK]

It's really cool you got the chance to try a sportbike. Basically a bike is a bike in a sense that no matter what you ride, if you love it, you'll enjoy it. Size doesn't matter....

However and especially here inThailand since they are very affordable, Kawasaki ER6's range were categorized in sportbike but are definitively not sportbike. They are what we call midsize naked bike. Kawasaki had the smart idea to put a twin in it o with only 76hp, you already have a very reactive engine. Those ER6/NInja are awesome bike and not only for beginners.

They are often categorized as beginners bike because of their "low" power, cheap equipment and riding position. However in good hands, this can be a very sharp tool.

But riding a ER6 will NOT give you a taste of a sportbike. Position is as I said, a naked bike position. Of course, jump off the chopper and the little kawa will feel like Rossi's bike. Here in Thailand they have market this bike as an "affordable sportbike" which is simply ridiculous. And I respect that bike a lot, again impressed me a lot, but it is only a marketing tool to say it has a "sport" hidden side in it. It just ain't.

Getting used to sportbike and riding them every day is, however, very doable. I will not advise a 600RR or gex600 for a start but the wonderful VFR400 (NC30) or RVF400 (NC35) is still THE best accessible sportbike you can find. It gives you everything you want to make your own opinion : the real sportbike position, a high revs engine, precise braking and very few assistance which is, IMHO the best way to learn (and it does NOT mean dangerous). Those brakes are still way better than what you might have on your chopper (no offense) so the trick will be to get used to it.

A sportbike isn't only about position, it is multiple caracteristics that makes it sporty. Brakes are usually very sensitive and progressive which is often surprising after a mid range bike like the ER6. Again, ER6 has good brakes, but you don't brake the sam eon a sportbike. Your body will be pushed forward much harder while braking on a sportbike and sterring will be affected. Get into a corner while braking and the bike will stand up (more or less depending on the bike). This is way less obvious on nakedbike. Again, doesn't mean sportbike are bad, just that you have to be aware that you don't ride them the same way. A sportbike needs you to balance your body more than other bikes. Beginners usually get affraid of that because they feel the bike isn't docile. It is true in a way, sportbike requires more "body balance" then basic bikes.

But again it is the image we have of them, because especially today, sportbikes are very easy to ride. I am not saying hitting the track and bringing doing fast laps, I am saying going for a sunday ride with friend is finally very easy. The only problem, it is the bike will always tempted you to open the throttle. Because let's face it, at one point you will realize you are on a rocket ship, and well... you want to know what it is like.

So no particular advices here, seemed to are a intelligent rider and know what you want. All bikes can be ride but not all in a different way

Ride safe and enjoy ANY BIKE !

Tibo

Sorry but I have to respectfully disagree with you.

The EX650 (ER6n and Ninja 650R) is certainly not a Supersport, but it is a basic sport bike. Kawasaki's "EX" models are sport bikees while Kawasaki "ZX" models are supersport. EX650's are very easy to ride and forgiving which is why it's often recommended for beginners. In some markets it's sold restricted as a beginner bike.

While the EX650 is way down on power compared to supersport 600's it's very cheap and with some fairly inexpensive upgrades it can handle well enough to give chase to the more track focused supersports:

Your recommendation of the VFR and RVF 400's should come with a BIG caveat- these bikes were awesome in their day but have been out of production for a LONG time. You will be very hard pressed to find a VFR or RVF 400 in Thailand today that has been properly serviced and maintained. They are all grey market imports. Look the books over with care. Many (most?) are dodgy. Even if you find one in good repair you must be ready to invest a lot of time and money in maintenance and repairs as these bikes are OLD. Finding the parts and mechanics who know how to fix these bikes PROPERLY is a challenge in Thailand.

The Thai manufactured Kawasakis on the other hand are 100% legal, come with a warranty, have a plentiful supply of CHEAP parts and trained Kawasaki mechanics all over the country who can do service and repairs by the book.

Ride On!

Tony

[katabeachbum]

It's really cool you got the chance to try a sportbike. Basically a bike is a bike in a sense that no matter what you ride, if you love it, you'll enjoy it. Size doesn't matter....

However and especially here inThailand since they are very affordable, Kawasaki ER6's range were categorized in sportbike but are definitively not sportbike. They are what we call midsize naked bike. Kawasaki had the smart idea to put a twin in it o with only 76hp, you already have a very reactive engine. Those ER6/NInja are awesome bike and not only for beginners.

They are often categorized as beginners bike because of their "low" power, cheap equipment and riding position. However in good hands, this can be a very sharp tool.

But riding a ER6 will NOT give you a taste of a sportbike. Position is as I said, a naked bike position. Of course, jump off the chopper and the little kawa will feel like Rossi's bike. Here in Thailand they have market this bike as an "affordable sportbike" which is simply ridiculous. And I respect that bike a lot, again impressed me a lot, but it is only a marketing tool to say it has a "sport" hidden side in it. It just ain't.

Getting used to sportbike and riding them every day is, however, very doable. I will not advise a 600RR or gex600 for a start but the wonderful VFR400 (NC30) or RVF400 (NC35) is still THE best accessible sportbike you can find. It gives you everything you want to make your own opinion : the real sportbike position, a high revs engine, precise braking and very few assistance which is, IMHO the best way to learn (and it does NOT mean dangerous). Those brakes are still way better than what you might have on your chopper (no offense) so the trick will be to get used to it.

A sportbike isn't only about position, it is multiple caracteristics that makes it sporty. Brakes are usually very sensitive and progressive which is often surprising after a mid range bike like the ER6. Again, ER6 has good brakes, but you don't brake the sam eon a sportbike. Your body will be pushed forward much harder while braking on a sportbike and sterring will be affected. Get into a corner while braking and the bike will stand up (more or less depending on the bike). This is way less obvious on nakedbike. Again, doesn't mean sportbike are bad, just that you have to be aware that you don't ride them the same way. A sportbike needs you to balance your body more than other bikes. Beginners usually get affraid of that because they feel the bike isn't docile. It is true in a way, sportbike requires more "body balance" then basic bikes.

But again it is the image we have of them, because especially today, sportbikes are very easy to ride. I am not saying hitting the track and bringing doing fast laps, I am saying going for a sunday ride with friend is finally very easy. The only problem, it is the bike will always tempted you to open the throttle. Because let's face it, at one point you will realize you are on a rocket ship, and well... you want to know what it is like.

So no particular advices here, seemed to are a intelligent rider and know what you want. All bikes can be ride but not all in a different way

Ride safe and enjoy ANY BIKE !

Tibo

Sorry but I have to respectfully disagree with you.

The EX650 (ER6n and Ninja 650R) is certainly not a Supersport, but it is a basic sport bike. Kawasaki's "EX" models are sport bikees while Kawasaki "ZX" models are supersport. EX650's are very easy to ride and forgiving which is why it's often recommended for beginners. In some markets it's sold restricted as a beginner bike.

While the EX650 is way down on power compared to supersport 600's it's very cheap and with some fairly inexpensive upgrades it can handle well enough to give chase to the more track focused supersports:

Your recommendation of the VFR and RVF 400's should come with a BIG caveat- these bikes were awesome in their day but have been out of production for a LONG time. You will be very hard pressed to find a VFR or RVF 400 in Thailand today that has been properly serviced and maintained. They are all grey market imports. Look the books over with care. Many (most?) are dodgy. Even if you find one in good repair you must be ready to invest a lot of time and money in maintenance and repairs as these bikes are OLD. Finding the parts and mechanics who know how to fix these bikes PROPERLY is a challenge in Thailand.

The Thai manufactured Kawasakis on the other hand are 100% legal, come with a warranty, have a plentiful supply of CHEAP parts and trained Kawasaki mechanics all over the country who can do service and repairs by the book.

Ride On!

Tony

and for those into cruisers, whenever kawa ex650 low power is mentioned, it is still 75 hp and does 0-100kmh in less than 4 seconds and +200kmh. compare that to a harley

[CMX]

We're talking at cross purposes when it comes to these two designs. In the U.S. cruisers are sold in vast numbers by Honda, Suzuki, and Yamaha. It is not factory Harleys alone that don't go 1-60 in a flash or are relatively heavy for the power. Because they have sensible rear fenders, no cruisers are made to do wheelies, and their centers of gravity alone make clear they are not meant to challenge the rider on 'curves' - there being fewer in that country as compared to relatively flat and straight.

Cruisers are meant for travel, principally long distance travel. Their very appearance is meant to indicate comfort on a long straight road. They have great utility and are admired for - no surprise - easy cruising comfort. Certainly advertisements and performance oriented magazines cast them as 'hot' in this way or that, but this is misleading, and buyers know it. Doubtless I might use a cruiser in ways that bring excitement to me, but they were not designed for that purpose, except perhaps for high speeds on the flat (thus many 'liter' bikes - and many at 1400cc, for example, as well). We purchase for ourselves as we see ourselves using any two wheeler.

Here in Thailand, roads are generally built to conform to hills, mountains, streams and rivers, not to ignore them. Thus we choose models to suit our lineup of magnificent biking roads near to almost everyone, by which we mean something agile and with sticky rubber. How I think depends in good part upon where I live and ride.

The initial distinction to be made before purchase is a simple one - mission.

And incidentally, 'chopper' refers to appearance; sports bike and cruiser terms directly refer to function.

Edited July 2, 2011 by CMX

[BigBikeBKK]

We're talking at cross purposes when it comes to these two designs. In the U.S. cruisers are sold in vast numbers by Honda, Suzuki, and Yamaha. It is not factory Harleys alone that don't go 1-60 in a flash or are relatively heavy for the power. Because they have sensible rear fenders, no cruisers are made to do wheelies, and their centers of gravity alone make clear they are not meant to challenge the rider on 'curves' - there being fewer in that country as compared to relatively flat and straight.

Cruisers are meant for travel, principally long distance travel. Their very appearance is meant to indicate comfort on a long straight road. They have great utility and are admired for - no surprise - easy cruising comfort. Certainly advertisements and performance oriented magazines cast them as 'hot' in this way or that, but this is misleading, and buyers know it. Doubtless I might use a cruiser in ways that bring excitement to me, but they were not designed for that purpose, except perhaps for high speeds on the flat (thus many 'liter' bikes - and many at 1400cc, for example, as well). We purchase for ourselves as we see ourselves using any two wheeler.

Here in Thailand, roads are generally built to conform to hills, mountains, streams and rivers, not to ignore them. Thus we choose models to suit our lineup of magnificent biking roads near to almost everyone, by which we mean something agile and with sticky rubber. How I think depends in good part upon where I live and ride.

The initial distinction to be made before purchase is a simple one - mission.

And incidentally, 'chopper' refers to appearance; sports bike and cruiser terms directly refer to function.

You can't wheelie a cruiser? Tell that to this guy-

And this guy-

Oh, and this guy too!

[katabeachbum]

Triumph Rocket III

Fell in love with it in 2004, have to take a look at Ebay, never seen one in LOS, 2300cc makes it taxed like a large sedan

[BigBikeBKK]

Triumph Rocket III

Fell in love with it in 2004, have to take a look at Ebay, never seen one in LOS, 2300cc makes it taxed like a large sedan

Triumph Thailand has sold a few Rockets in the Land of Smiles- what a beast!

Just don't try to wheelie it, ok? :lol:

Ride On!

Tony

[katabeachbum]

I did try to wheelie my VTX 1800. 35 hp less (vtx 103hp) than Rocket III and 50 pound higher dry weight and wheelbase like a yaris, I just couldnt

on the other hand it was like a battleship on the Highways,

[CMX]

Yes, I was not clear. What I wrote was that cruisers are not made to do wheelies. Certainly there is not one drug peddling gangsta in the U.S. who does do them when he's high, impressing the pillions, or playing at macho-man; it is not just company trick riders who pull it off. But the design, I meant, is not developed with the maneuver in mind.

And in any case, short rear fenders of choppers are good for the trick, so I also was misleading in suggesting that a chopper was for appearance alone, rather than having a function of sorts, not to mention its handy ability to spray filth on closing riders in the rain.

But these applications are rare in biking, not unlike an elephant standing on two rear legs for show. Mostly elephants and cruisers keep their feet on the ground and they don't do twisties very well.

[BigBikeBKK]

Yes, I was not clear. What I wrote was that cruisers are not made to do wheelies. Certainly there is not one drug peddling gangsta in the U.S. who does do them when he's high, impressing the pillions, or playing at macho-man; it is not just company trick riders who pull it off. But the design, I meant, is not developed with the maneuver in mind.

And in any case, short rear fenders of choppers are good for the trick, so I also was misleading in suggesting that a chopper was for appearance alone, rather than having a function of sorts, not to mention its handy ability to spray filth on closing riders in the rain.

But these applications are rare in biking, not unlike an elephant standing on two rear legs for show. Mostly elephants and cruisers keep their feet on the ground and they don't do twisties very well.

Most cruiser owners can't be bothered with decent protective gear and certainly their bikes are not designed to carve twisties but it sure is fun to watch them try!

[Tibo27]

Sorry but I have to respectfully disagree with you.

The EX650 (ER6n and Ninja 650R) is certainly not a Supersport, but it is a basic sport bike. Kawasaki's "EX" models are sport bikees while Kawasaki "ZX" models are supersport. EX650's are very easy to ride and forgiving which is why it's often recommended for beginners. In some markets it's sold restricted as a beginner bike.

While the EX650 is way down on power compared to supersport 600's it's very cheap and with some fairly inexpensive upgrades it can handle well enough to give chase to the more track focused supersports:

No problem you disagree, sharing opinion and ideas always a great way to learn.

I understand you track on ER-6 and I have seen few of your videos, very nice and good skills indeed. Few things though :

There was in France (very probably others countries too but I don't know) a national championship called CB Cup. It is a championship that allows only Honda CB500 to compete. I used to have and track with a CB500 (but never in the championship) and this bike is a "basic" roadster (naked bike). However, in good hands, you can easily pace up with bigger cc bikes because the engine as you know does not make the win. You need proper handling, agility blablabla. And CB500 was the main bike in motorbike schools. Easy to use and maintain, 58hp, the perfect match. It is NOT a sportbike and yet, it has some impressive records and a national championship at its name !

Nowadays, the main bike for bike school is... ER-6. Why ? Well for the same reason as the CB500 in its time. Small, easy to use and the power does not come unexpected so perfect for beginners. I don't mean being good for beginners is bad for experienced riders. It's just a fact, it's an easy bike (which is a compliment). The ER-6 does not have what the market "requires" for a sportbike, big fork, big brakes, powerfull engine and bunch of expensive parts that are not really useful but makes you drive safer when you think about how much it costs to replace it..

The denomination Kawasaki's gives to their bikes is a bit too simple to really mean something. Considering the history of such legendary Kawasaki's bike like the stinger or the ZX-9R, it is a marketing tool. Honda calls CBR the small 125cc. Seriously, a sportbike ?? It is a hell of a machine indeed but not a sport bike. You might know that but the name "Ninja" starts in 1984 with the legendary GPz900R. ZXR750, ZX-11, even the ZZ-R1100 is a "Ninja" !! So it is not my opnion but a fact that Kawasaki used "Ninja" appellation on the Ninja 650 and later on for the Ninja 250 JUST AS A MARKETING TOOL. It is like a replica paint, you want it cause your idols rides on it. Again, I don't critizise it, I think it's brilliant, but all main manufacturers do that.

Now as for you video, and again I really respect your riding skill, but I can show you hundreds of guy riding 1000cc that barely know where the brakes are. Scooter in Thailand Circuit ride faster than a lot of sportbike too, so again, the fact that you are overtaking a Gex with an ER-6 does NOT make that bike a sportbike. I "played" with big sportbikes when I race with the CB500 and I also overtake severals of them, and I am no way close of being a pilot.

Your recommendation of the VFR and RVF 400's should come with a BIG caveat- these bikes were awesome in their day but have been out of production for a LONG time. You will be very hard pressed to find a VFR or RVF 400 in Thailand today that has been properly serviced and maintained. They are all grey market imports. Look the books over with care. Many (most?) are dodgy. Even if you find one in good repair you must be ready to invest a lot of time and money in maintenance and repairs as these bikes are OLD. Finding the parts and mechanics who know how to fix these bikes PROPERLY is a challenge in Thailand.

The Thai manufactured Kawasakis on the other hand are 100% legal, come with a warranty, have a plentiful supply of CHEAP parts and trained Kawasaki mechanics all over the country who can do service and repairs by the book.

You cannot compare a bike that was released in the 90's with a bike that has 5 years old, when speaking of getting parts and maintenance. VFR400 are, I totally agree, hard to find in proper condition. However, there is way less electronics than an ER-6 which make that bike very easy to maintain buy a average mechanics (I am not talking of those guys installing FIno parts..).

Honda trained their mechanics as well, you know that about Kawasaki because you only experienced them here ! Kawasaki has an excellent understanding of the local market as they manage to produce cheap and quality product and offer decent service. Now you are telling about a warranty that goes with a 250,000thb bike when VFR400 can be found around 80,000thb in ok conditions with, I agree, few maintenance to be safe on the track. But I'll rather crash a 100,000thb ten years old bike which has spare parts everywhere in thailand, instead of a brand new ER-6 at 250,000thb. Moreover, getting parts on ER-6 will be more expensive as the VFR400 since you can get all of them second hands quite easily, and warranty does not work if you crashed on track, as you know it

RVF400 are, indeed, harder to find. And for racetrack, you don't need a green book. So again depend on what you do with it.

One more thing, Honda VFR400 are over 20 years old for the oldest one and with few care, they are still running like hell. Check Red Baron's one.. Let's wait 20 years and see what the ER-6 will look like. Kawasaki isn't cheaper for no reason. It is a pricing strategy but it is no secret that they aren't as well build as Honda for instance.

But again, I said ER-6 is an awesome bike, but not because you put it on track and smoked some Gex or R1 means that ER-6 is a sportbike. You can race on a scooter, they have T-Max championship !

[BigBikeBKK]

Sorry but I have to respectfully disagree with you.

The EX650 (ER6n and Ninja 650R) is certainly not a Supersport, but it is a basic sport bike. Kawasaki's "EX" models are sport bikees while Kawasaki "ZX" models are supersport. EX650's are very easy to ride and forgiving which is why it's often recommended for beginners. In some markets it's sold restricted as a beginner bike.

While the EX650 is way down on power compared to supersport 600's it's very cheap and with some fairly inexpensive upgrades it can handle well enough to give chase to the more track focused supersports:

No problem you disagree, sharing opinion and ideas always a great way to learn.

I understand you track on ER-6 and I have seen few of your videos, very nice and good skills indeed. Few things though :

There was in France (very probably others countries too but I don't know) a national championship called CB Cup. It is a championship that allows only Honda CB500 to compete. I used to have and track with a CB500 (but never in the championship) and this bike is a "basic" roadster (naked bike). However, in good hands, you can easily pace up with bigger cc bikes because the engine as you know does not make the win. You need proper handling, agility blablabla. And CB500 was the main bike in motorbike schools. Easy to use and maintain, 58hp, the perfect match. It is NOT a sportbike and yet, it has some impressive records and a national championship at its name !

Nowadays, the main bike for bike school is... ER-6. Why ? Well for the same reason as the CB500 in its time. Small, easy to use and the power does not come unexpected so perfect for beginners. I don't mean being good for beginners is bad for experienced riders. It's just a fact, it's an easy bike (which is a compliment). The ER-6 does not have what the market "requires" for a sportbike, big fork, big brakes, powerfull engine and bunch of expensive parts that are not really useful but makes you drive safer when you think about how much it costs to replace it..

The denomination Kawasaki's gives to their bikes is a bit too simple to really mean something. Considering the history of such legendary Kawasaki's bike like the stinger or the ZX-9R, it is a marketing tool. Honda calls CBR the small 125cc. Seriously, a sportbike ?? It is a hell of a machine indeed but not a sport bike. You might know that but the name "Ninja" starts in 1984 with the legendary GPz900R. ZXR750, ZX-11, even the ZZ-R1100 is a "Ninja" !! So it is not my opnion but a fact that Kawasaki used "Ninja" appellation on the Ninja 650 and later on for the Ninja 250 JUST AS A MARKETING TOOL. It is like a replica paint, you want it cause your idols rides on it. Again, I don't critizise it, I think it's brilliant, but all main manufacturers do that.

Now as for you video, and again I really respect your riding skill, but I can show you hundreds of guy riding 1000cc that barely know where the brakes are. Scooter in Thailand Circuit ride faster than a lot of sportbike too, so again, the fact that you are overtaking a Gex with an ER-6 does NOT make that bike a sportbike. I "played" with big sportbikes when I race with the CB500 and I also overtake severals of them, and I am no way close of being a pilot.

Your recommendation of the VFR and RVF 400's should come with a BIG caveat- these bikes were awesome in their day but have been out of production for a LONG time. You will be very hard pressed to find a VFR or RVF 400 in Thailand today that has been properly serviced and maintained. They are all grey market imports. Look the books over with care. Many (most?) are dodgy. Even if you find one in good repair you must be ready to invest a lot of time and money in maintenance and repairs as these bikes are OLD. Finding the parts and mechanics who know how to fix these bikes PROPERLY is a challenge in Thailand.

The Thai manufactured Kawasakis on the other hand are 100% legal, come with a warranty, have a plentiful supply of CHEAP parts and trained Kawasaki mechanics all over the country who can do service and repairs by the book.

You cannot compare a bike that was released in the 90's with a bike that has 5 years old, when speaking of getting parts and maintenance. VFR400 are, I totally agree, hard to find in proper condition. However, there is way less electronics than an ER-6 which make that bike very easy to maintain buy a average mechanics (I am not talking of those guys installing FIno parts..).

Honda trained their mechanics as well, you know that about Kawasaki because you only experienced them here ! Kawasaki has an excellent understanding of the local market as they manage to produce cheap and quality product and offer decent service. Now you are telling about a warranty that goes with a 250,000thb bike when VFR400 can be found around 80,000thb in ok conditions with, I agree, few maintenance to be safe on the track. But I'll rather crash a 100,000thb ten years old bike which has spare parts everywhere in thailand, instead of a brand new ER-6 at 250,000thb. Moreover, getting parts on ER-6 will be more expensive as the VFR400 since you can get all of them second hands quite easily, and warranty does not work if you crashed on track, as you know it

RVF400 are, indeed, harder to find. And for racetrack, you don't need a green book. So again depend on what you do with it.

One more thing, Honda VFR400 are over 20 years old for the oldest one and with few care, they are still running like hell. Check Red Baron's one.. Let's wait 20 years and see what the ER-6 will look like. Kawasaki isn't cheaper for no reason. It is a pricing strategy but it is no secret that they aren't as well build as Honda for instance.

But again, I said ER-6 is an awesome bike, but not because you put it on track and smoked some Gex or R1 means that ER-6 is a sportbike. You can race on a scooter, they have T-Max championship !

I hear what you are saying but believe there's a slight misunderstanding. In France do you distinguish between "Sport Bikes" and "Supersports"? Forget the misleading Ninja / CBR stickers that Honda and Kawasaki throw on their bikes as a marketing gimmick. Another good way to differentiate is to look at how insurance companies classify the bikes. In the US the Kawasaki EX series bikes are classified as "Sport Bikes" and enjoy much lower insurance premiums than the ZX series "supersports".

The ER6n is cheap in Thailand because it's manufactured in Thailand. The parts for the ER6n are dirt cheap because they are manufactured in Thailand. Parts for VFR and RVF were made in Japan and becoming more and more difficult to find. Sure Red Baron's VFR400 is and will remain immaculate but Red Baron is a Japanese franchise and has some of the best mechanics in all of Thailand and ready access to parts from their Japanese network.

Most people who are looking for ER6n track bikes choose the 2009 model as it doesn't have ABS. It's not hard to find good condition 2009 ER6n's in Thailand for as little 160k Baht. So, 160k for a 2 year old ER6n or 100k baht for a 10-20 year old VFR...

Up to you!

[Tibo27]

I hear what you are saying but believe there's a slight misunderstanding. In France do you distinguish between "Sport Bikes" and "Supersports"? Forget the misleading Ninja / CBR stickers that Honda and Kawasaki throw on their bikes as a marketing gimmick. Another good way to differentiate is to look at how insurance companies classify the bikes. In the US the Kawasaki EX series bikes are classified as "Sport Bikes" and enjoy much lower insurance premiums than the ZX series "supersports".

In Europe, ER-6 are considered as roadsters (naked bike). Insurance is usually very cheap for it because mainly insurance based their pricing on horsepower. That is why a MV Brutale will be categorized as sportbike by some insurance companies, even though it's a roadster (do you use that name too in the US, or only naked bike ?)

The ER6n is cheap in Thailand because it's manufactured in Thailand. The parts for the ER6n are dirt cheap because they are manufactured in Thailand. Parts for VFR and RVF were made in Japan and becoming more and more difficult to find. Sure Red Baron's VFR400 is and will remain immaculate but Red Baron is a Japanese franchise and has some of the best mechanics in all of Thailand and ready access to parts from their Japanese network.

I disagree. VFR400 is the NC30, not the RC30 which means parts aren't racing parts. They are very basics and can be found and/or replace easily, even by CB400 parts. So of course Kawasaki can order any parts for your bike because they have a legal obligation of keeping every parts available for 10 years after the end of a production line. And like the kawasaki, you have a lots of non factory parts available on the net.

Red Baron aren't superheros, just mechanics who has been trained...same as your kawasaki mechanics And just as you bring your ER-6 to Kawa dealer, you can bring you VFR400 to Red Baron.

Most people who are looking for ER6n track bikes choose the 2009 model as it doesn't have ABS. It's not hard to find good condition 2009 ER6n's in Thailand for as little 160k Baht. So, 160k for a 2 year old ER6n or 100k baht for a 10-20 year old VFR...

Up to you!

For 160k you are out of warranty with a factory spec ER-6, probably few things to change too, but let's suppose you don't. So you go on the track with a 178 kilo (dry) and 71hp, basic fork and well, mid range roaster.

FOr 100k, I get a VFR400, V4 engine with gear-driven camshafts (as good as the kawa twin is, making a comparison here would be close to insulting Honda's bike), 164 kg (dry), 59hp, inverted fork, single swing-arm, smaller, better balanced and properly sport/racing oriented. You are basically buying a piece of history that should make you proud to have and maintain, fix, upgrade if you want to.

So to answer your question :

Yes, I will definitively go for the Honda if I am looking for a sportbike.

Because we are getting out of the main topic I guess. I said and confirmed that even though ER-6 is a good bike, it is NOT a sportbike. Well done Kawasaki for labelling "Ninja" on the 250cc and the 650cc, but racing with it does not make it a sportbike.

Reminds me, I smoked a 250 Ninja at Seacon Square about a month ago, with my KSR (non modified).. Kawasaki labelled KSR as a Mini Super Sport Bike (I guess it says it all.. I just love marketing !)

[BigBikeBKK]

Don't get me wrong Tibo,

I agree that the old VFR 400 and RVF 400 are fantastic bikes.

But, what you call "history" I call "antique".

Yes you can bring your VFR400 to Red Baron but only if you bought the bike from them OR you've purchased a Red Baron membership. As I said before, Red Baron has top mechanics, but you will pay for it. Their shop rate is more than double Kawasaki's... And yes, they can source the parts you need, but they will be imported from Japan and you will pay accordingly.

While the VFR / RVF 400 boast higher spec suspension than the ER6n / Ninja 650R they come up a bit short in power. Friend of mine has a beautifully maintained RVF 400 that you can see behind me in this pic.

Very fast through the corners but just couldn't keep up down the ER6 down straights at BIRA.

We had this debate a long time ago on the Ninja 650R thread where folks started arguing about why there's an "R" after the 650 even though most of us understand and agree that the EX650 is NOT a race bike, but that sure hasn't stopped people from racing them!

Let the Good Times ROLL!

Tony

[Tibo27]

But, what you call "history" I call "antique".

That is just stupid to say, especially from a guy who seems to know a lot about bike. Don't get frustrated about my opinion, and again I am glad we are sharing infos. But I think as much as you may love Kawasaki, you ought to stay realistic. ER-6 is a fun/easy bike without any high technology parts or system, without being an example for other brand, without setting a new era. VFR and RVF are legendary, and that is not my opinion. Your friend who race one is only losing ground in the straight line at BIRA ? Hehehe, not bad for a 20 years old bike, isn't it ?

But again, that's a whole different story ! We can spend days looking at picture of ER-6 on the track, it won't change the fact that what I am saying from the start, and it is as an answer to the title, is that no, ER-6 isn't a sportbike.

The guy is asking "Difference in riding a cruiser and a sportbike thinking of buying a sportbike". Now obviously he does not know about sportbike and the only thing I do not agree with is that you are advising him to put his hands on a ER-6 and he will have his sportbike.

If the question was "looking for a good alternative for the track", bingo, you're in with the whole ER-6 thing. But that was not the question. Not just because you like (obviously a lot) Kawasaki means that you have to market when there is no need. I am just thinking about that guy who does not know much about it and might end up with an ER-6 thinking he bought a sportbike just because you convinced him it was.

It just think it's not cool. So in a nut shell, we agree. ER-6 is a good bike but not a sportbike. ok ?

Now the guy is looking for a sportbike.. And please, enough with the Kawasaki picture. We get it, you track with it

As for Red Baron, everything comes to a price. Kawasaki is cheaper because it is an official dealer, and they accept only Kawasaki bikes. Red Baron stand on its own here and accept every bikes. Yes you have to pay a membership, same if you go to Ducati Dealer. The only problem is that HOnda doesn't have a proper dealer yet. And I agree, Kawasaki does a great job with their dealer.

[katabeachbum]

But, what you call "history" I call "antique".

That is just stupid to say, especially from a guy who seems to know a lot about bike. Don't get frustrated about my opinion, and again I am glad we are sharing infos. But I think as much as you may love Kawasaki, you ought to stay realistic. ER-6 is a fun/easy bike without any high technology parts or system, without being an example for other brand, without setting a new era. VFR and RVF are legendary, and that is not my opinion. Your friend who race one is only losing ground in the straight line at BIRA ? Hehehe, not bad for a 20 years old bike, isn't it ?

But again, that's a whole different story ! We can spend days looking at picture of ER-6 on the track, it won't change the fact that what I am saying from the start, and it is as an answer to the title, is that no, ER-6 isn't a sportbike.

The guy is asking "Difference in riding a cruiser and a sportbike thinking of buying a sportbike". Now obviously he does not know about sportbike and the only thing I do not agree with is that you are advising him to put his hands on a ER-6 and he will have his sportbike.

If the question was "looking for a good alternative for the track", bingo, you're in with the whole ER-6 thing. But that was not the question. Not just because you like (obviously a lot) Kawasaki means that you have to market when there is no need. I am just thinking about that guy who does not know much about it and might end up with an ER-6 thinking he bought a sportbike just because you convinced him it was.

It just think it's not cool. So in a nut shell, we agree. ER-6 is a good bike but not a sportbike. ok ?

Now the guy is looking for a sportbike.. And please, enough with the Kawasaki picture. We get it, you track with it

As for Red Baron, everything comes to a price. Kawasaki is cheaper because it is an official dealer, and they accept only Kawasaki bikes. Red Baron stand on its own here and accept every bikes. Yes you have to pay a membership, same if you go to Ducati Dealer. The only problem is that HOnda doesn't have a proper dealer yet. And I agree, Kawasaki does a great job with their dealer.

Ninja650 is a sporstbike, with dirt cheap parts available all over the country within 24 hours, and kwaker trained mechanics all over the country.

20 year old Hondas, which was state of the art at that time, but now are dated with spareparts hard to find, with dodgy books, with a few mechanics in Thailand who really knows them and charge accordingly, are antique. Sorry, plain truth

However Ninja 650 is a simple Sportsbike, not a Supersportsbike, not extreme in any way, and to get a better Sportsbike feel, handlebars need to be replaced with 2 inch lower Sportsbars

But it sure isnt a cruiser

and thats what this thread is about, difference in riding a cruiser and a sportsbike. Not splitting hair on where the limit between sportsbike and supersportsbike is. Both have extreme traction, speed and brakes compared to cruisers, both have a low riding position with weight on knees, not upright with all load on hips and spine as on a cruiser

[Tibo27]

Ninja650 is a sporstbike, with dirt cheap parts available all over the country within 24 hours, and kwaker trained mechanics all over the country.

But WHY ? You are not giving any reasons to prove it. Available parts and good mechanics make it a sportbike ?

You will agree that ER-6 is NOT a sportbike. Well thanks to a great idea, Kawasaki dressed up the ER-6 for the ball with a nice fairing and add a Ninja stiker... oh ! But it's still an ER-6 ! So you still do consider that as a sportbike ? (again you all seems to feel like I am insulting this bike, but I am not, just keeping it where it belongs so people who know less about bikes are not fooled)

20 year old Hondas, which was state of the art at that time, but now are dated with spareparts hard to find, with dodgy books, with a few mechanics in Thailand who really knows them and charge accordingly, are antique. Sorry, plain truth

No, I strongly disagree, spare parts are not hard to find. Dodgy books, agree, again, no need book for the track. Few mechanics who knows about it ? Are you also a Kawasaki dealer addicted ? Cause guys, they are a lot of good mechanics in Bangkok if you give a proper look. Not every one is fixing their bike in Kawa or Red Baron, and our bikes are still working.

However Ninja 650 is a simple Sportsbike, not a Supersportsbike, not extreme in any way, and to get a better Sportsbike feel, handlebars need to be replaced with 2 inch lower Sportsbars

Come on now and be honest. There is no need to defend that Ninja so hardly, we all agree it's a great bike, why do you want to make it a sportbike so much when it isn't ? Just don't fool the people here, someone who buy a bike is ought to know and understand the difference. If you sold the Ninja 650 as a sportbike, you are just acting like the sales guys, and that is not a compliment in most case.

Take out the fairing and there is nothing of a sportbike on that, so yes you can track with it, yes it handles great, yes the engine is fun, yes some can over take Gex with it but so can you with a T-Max.

and thats what this thread is about, difference in riding a cruiser and a sportsbike. Not splitting hair on where the limit between sportsbike and supersportsbike is. Both have extreme traction, speed and brakes compared to cruisers, both have a low riding position with weight on knees, not upright with all load on hips and spine as on a cruiser

That's just 3 lines of nonsense.. a ER-6 has "extreme traction, speed and brakes [...] a low riding position with weight on knees" ??

It is not nice to influence people like that. Above can be a feeling, your opinion, but you have to describe it like so. Because again, people might believe that and it is a lie, the same lie the saleman will tell you to make you feel like you will ride better and faster with it. So I accept you like this bike, but your statement is just not honest or from someone who definitively know nothing about bikes, but I doubt this is your case.

[katabeachbum]

I guess most readers can read my post and compare with your "quotes" and realise how you twisted what I said.

Ninja 650 is not a cruiser, and this topic is about cruisers and sportsbikes.

as for repairs of 20 year old antiques, going 900 to 1400km to BKK is a major disadvantage. so is waiting weeks or months for expensive parts

while my Tmax was a great bike and I still miss it, its not close to Ninja 650 on power, handling and brakes

Now, Forum rules, using large fonts, underscore and bold is not OK, especially not when you pretend to quote another poster

So back on topic, perhaps you care to explain OP the major difference in riding a non sportsbike like Kawasaki Ninja650 with a supersportsbike like Kawasaki zx600R

[BigBikeBKK]

Cher Tibo,

Mon ami, my friend, please no need to call anyone STUPID just for sharing their opinion.

Once again I think there must be a misunderstanding. You are from France oui? English is not your mother tongue? C'est pas grave!

In English we make a distinction between SPORT BIKE and SUPERSPORT.

Perhaps some examples will help you understand the difference-

CBR600RR, ZX6R, R6, GSXR600 etc are SUPERSPORT

Honda CB600 (Hornet), Kawa ER6n/f, Yammie FZ6, Suzie GSR600 etc are SPORT BIKES.

Do you understand the distinction between SPORT BIKE and SUPERSPORT?

FWIW I used to be a BIG Honda fan, but I find in recent years their bikes are not what they used to be. With the exception of the CBR600RR Honda's current bikes are all rather uninspiring in my humble opinion.

I love my Suzuki GSXR and think BMW, Ducati, Triumph and KTM are all offering very exciting bikes in Thailand but at inflated prices I find hard to swallow.

Kawasaki is hands down the best VALUE going in Thailand at the moment. If Triumph ever manages to sell their Thai assembled bikes at reasonable prices I'd certainly consider one (though unfortunately it seems they only assemble the twins in Thailand when what I really want is a triple...) If the new Thai Ducati factory starts to offer locally made Ducatis at reasonable prices I'll jump on a new 848 or Multi in a heartbeat!

Happy Trails!

Tony

[katabeachbum]

Cher Tibo,

Mon ami, my friend, please no need to call anyone STUPID just for sharing their opinion.

Once again I think there must be a misunderstanding. You are from France oui? English is not your mother tongue? C'est pas grave!

In English we make a distinction between SPORT BIKE and SUPERSPORT.

Perhaps some examples will help you understand the difference-

CBR600RR, ZX6R, R6, GSXR600 etc are SUPERSPORT

Honda CB600 (Hornet), Kawa ER6n/f, Yammie FZ6, Suzie GSR600 etc are SPORT BIKES.

Do you understand the distinction between SPORT BIKE and SUPERSPORT?

FWIW I used to be a BIG Honda fan, but I find in recent years their bikes are not what they used to be. With the exception of the CBR600RR Honda's current bikes are all rather uninspiring in my humble opinion.

I love my Suzuki GSXR and think BMW, Ducati, Triumph and KTM are all offering very exciting bikes in Thailand but at inflated prices I find hard to swallow.

Kawasaki is hands down the best VALUE going in Thailand at the moment. If Triumph ever manages to sell their Thai assembled bikes at reasonable prices I'd certainly consider one (though unfortunately it seems they only assemble the twins in Thailand when what I really want is a triple...) If the new Thai Ducati factory starts to offer locally made Ducatis at reasonable prices I'll jump on a new 848 or Multi in a heartbeat!

Happy Trails!

Tony

well said Tony, and if Ducati starts selling their bikes at US prices in Thailand, I will get a 848 and Multi on the spot, and simply accept the sparepartsprices and distance between servicepoints. Until then kwaker rules, sportsbikes and cruisers, but no supersports in TH

BTW, 35 years riding my own bikes, only 2 years have I owned kwakers. Cause I live in kwakerland now

[RED21]

Hope this clarifies things a bit...

Wikipedia's description of a sports bike