Land Of Smiles? Have I Landed In The Wrong Country?

[bermondburi]

Thais can be just as direct as you found out when you experienced a negative reaction for doing to them what they are doing to you. Stand up for yourself !!

Yeah, right. And the next thing you know your banged up, shot by your wife's "brother" or shown the door because "you no understand Thai way".

All part of the reasons why I will continue to visit the Kingdom, but will not call it home. To many idiots for my peace of mind.

I have to agree with you though. If someone, extended family or not, decided to just help themselves to my belongings, there would be at the least a verbal exchange and warning the first time. After that, it's foot-up-the-azz time. Probably a good thing I don't live in Thailand as I would hate to get shot by an in-law.

This is where a lot of people go wrong, they think they are just marrying the wife and they don't look at the family. In a good family stuff like this would never happen. Or the wife would / should put a stop to it. Got to be more selective in who you shack up with.

or you could follow my mate Ranong Richard's advice and " MARRY AN ORPHAN " !!

[billd766]

Thais can be just as direct as you found out when you experienced a negative reaction for doing to them what they are doing to you. Stand up for yourself !!

Yeah, right. And the next thing you know your banged up, shot by your wife's "brother" or shown the door because "you no understand Thai way".

All part of the reasons why I will continue to visit the Kingdom, but will not call it home. To many idiots for my peace of mind.

I have to agree with you though. If someone, extended family or not, decided to just help themselves to my belongings, there would be at the least a verbal exchange and warning the first time. After that, it's foot-up-the-azz time. Probably a good thing I don't live in Thailand as I would hate to get shot by an in-law.

Well I have been living in Thailand both in Bangkok and up country for 17 years on and off and I don't know of anybody banged up, shot by the brother in law or shown the door.

Do know anybody or are you you just saying what somebody in a bar once told you?

If anybody in my family wanted any of my stuff they would ask first and if I don't use it why ever not.

Probably a good idea that you don't live in Thailand then.

[KeyserSoze01]

They smile more and are a lot more pleasant than most people in Western countries.

True. Try smiling at someone in the US these days. You might get pepper sprayed if lucky. Tasered if not so lucky and bound to wind up on the Most Wanted list for crimes against humanity.

Wow...just got back from a 5 week visit. Smiled a lot and all I got in return was another smile! Dang, and look at what I missed out on!

Depends on where you visited, doesn't it. I stand by my observations in the major US markets. Your mileage may vary in smaller cities and of course in rural America. Try smiling at a lady in public in New York, Los Angeles, Dallas, etc and you will see what I mean.

Here is a recent anecdotal story to which I was a witness. I was in a Home Depot in Coral Gables, FL with a friend who happens to be an airline pilot. Nice guys, in shape, late 30's, so no, he isn't fat, bald, poor or ugly. There was a sales girl who was assisting my friend to locate some items. During this time he struck up a conversation with her and was flirting a bit. Her comeback was this statement; "you are bothering me. if you do not stop bothering me, I will call the Police!!!" I shit you not. There was nothing averse in my friends demeanor, actions or intent, yet this was the SOP for this western woman to shut down any interested party.

Defend the culture of the US all you want. The fact remains that YOU no longer live there, so you?

[KeyserSoze01]

Thais can be just as direct as you found out when you experienced a negative reaction for doing to them what they are doing to you. Stand up for yourself !!

Yeah, right. And the next thing you know your banged up, shot by your wife's "brother" or shown the door because "you no understand Thai way".

All part of the reasons why I will continue to visit the Kingdom, but will not call it home. To many idiots for my peace of mind.

I have to agree with you though. If someone, extended family or not, decided to just help themselves to my belongings, there would be at the least a verbal exchange and warning the first time. After that, it's foot-up-the-azz time. Probably a good thing I don't live in Thailand as I would hate to get shot by an in-law.

Well I have been living in Thailand both in Bangkok and up country for 17 years on and off and I don't know of anybody banged up, shot by the brother in law or shown the door.

Do know anybody or are you you just saying what somebody in a bar once told you?

If anybody in my family wanted any of my stuff they would ask first and if I don't use it why ever not.

Probably a good idea that you don't live in Thailand then.

Yes, in fact I know several people who have been 'banged up' while living in Thailand. Some lost all their $ in shady business dealings, most lost their $ to wives and their families, I know one guy who was basically told that if he didn't pack a bag and leave the country, leaving all other assets behind, that he would not see the light of the next day. Who threatened this person, well, it was the BiB, who else! The stories go on and on. And this from someone who is only a casual traveler to the LOS, although I do have many friends who do live in-country and have done so for many, many years. No second-hand bar stories here.

You can pick your friends and you can pick your nose, but in most cases you cannot pick your family. Unless you start from square one and make sure you marry into a good family. One with integrity, work ethic and pride. This is where many make poor decisions and wind up with the first bar girl that shows them interest.

Good on you that you choose wisely and don't suffer the pangs of anxiety caused by the over-zealous family members of your wife.

All I can say is that you either lead a protected life or are very lucky as there are many, many folks out there who are not so lucky -or- make very poor life-decisions.

And on a final note, there are many, many reasons why I chose not to live in Thailand. The ones listed in this thread only scratch the surface. There are many more places in this world that are a lot less punitive to live. By punitive, I mean places where you aren't killed for causing someone to lose face, or get run over by a 16 year old girl in a van (after which no charges were filed), or drown on a beach with no life guards, or wonder why the wife's "brother" insists on hanging around all the time, or having to comply with stupid immigration policies & procedures, or the RFM's due to sick (buffalo, mother, child, etc) or shot dead by a drunk policeman because he doesn't like the way you look and on and on and on. You get my drift? Yeah, the poontang in Thailand is a draw, but that dog has different fleas in and of itself.

[samran]

^^

Stupid people marrying what are most likely bar girls - oh sorry 'waitresses' - and then wondering why it all goes to sh

!t

[Englander]

^^

Stupid people marrying what are most likely bar girls - oh sorry 'waitresses' - and then wondering why it all goes to sh

!t

Another who has moved on from hanging out with bg's and likes to knock others.

[Ulysses G.]

He is not knocking people who hang out with bar girls. He is knocking men who marry them and then are surprised at the almost inevitable results.

[craigt3365]

True. Try smiling at someone in the US these days. You might get pepper sprayed if lucky. Tasered if not so lucky and bound to wind up on the Most Wanted list for crimes against humanity.

Wow...just got back from a 5 week visit. Smiled a lot and all I got in return was another smile! Dang, and look at what I missed out on!

Depends on where you visited, doesn't it. I stand by my observations in the major US markets. Your mileage may vary in smaller cities and of course in rural America. Try smiling at a lady in public in New York, Los Angeles, Dallas, etc and you will see what I mean.

Here is a recent anecdotal story to which I was a witness. I was in a Home Depot in Coral Gables, FL with a friend who happens to be an airline pilot. Nice guys, in shape, late 30's, so no, he isn't fat, bald, poor or ugly. There was a sales girl who was assisting my friend to locate some items. During this time he struck up a conversation with her and was flirting a bit. Her comeback was this statement; "you are bothering me. if you do not stop bothering me, I will call the Police!!!" I shit you not. There was nothing averse in my friends demeanor, actions or intent, yet this was the SOP for this western woman to shut down any interested party.

Defend the culture of the US all you want. The fact remains that YOU no longer live there, so you?

Not trying to defend, just trying to say that getting pepper sprayed is probably not going to happen when you smile at somebody...pretty much anywhere in the world. And for sure not the other options you describe. A bit severe for sure.

Regarding your story...I hear ya...but he was flirting. For her to say that, he obviously stepped over the line from friendly to a bit too friendly. And I can not agree that this is SOP for every western woman. Some, for sure, but not all. You make sweeping generalizations that are just not true.

I lived in LA for years, same with Denver, New York City and many others. NYC for sure has a bad rep. People are busy, and many are downright rude. But, I've stopped people in the street asking for directions and never had but a few problems. Same with Paris last year. We got lost often and had to ask for help. Only rude French person I encountered was at the Ibis hotel on our last night. Other than that, a fantastic experience.

Sometimes, it depends on your body language.

P.S. I do have a house here, but just moved here. A part time resident before. Still have a house outside Vegas with my elderly Mom who I visit several times a year.

[IanForbes]

Here is a recent anecdotal story to which I was a witness. I was in a Home Depot in Coral Gables, FL with a friend who happens to be an airline pilot. Nice guys, in shape, late 30's, so no, he isn't fat, bald, poor or ugly. There was a sales girl who was assisting my friend to locate some items. During this time he struck up a conversation with her and was flirting a bit. Her comeback was this statement; "you are bothering me. if you do not stop bothering me, I will call the Police!!!" I shit you not. There was nothing averse in my friends demeanor, actions or intent, yet this was the SOP for this western woman to shut down any interested party.

Good story, and I believe it. However, it doesn't have to be either or. I've had many similar tales to tell. I'm an old fashioned kind of gentleman and on at least 5 separate occasions I've held the door open to women in North America and had them make snippy remarks such as "I'm quite capable of opening my own doors, thank you!". That doesn't mean I won't stop holding doors open to people. Most just nod with a smile or say "Thank you."

Grumpy people are not worth worrying about. Let them live their own sad lives in peace. I'll STILL smile at everyone, and most often get a smile in return. It DOES catch the New Yorkers off guard though. I never worry about the rejections... even though open hostility sometimes surprises me. I'm a LOT less friendly with border guards and airport security officers. Most are a sullen grumpy lot.

[greytown]

I was in a Home Depot in Coral Gables, FL with a friend who happens to be an airline pilot. Nice guys, in shape, late 30's, so no, he isn't fat, bald, poor or ugly. There was a sales girl who was assisting my friend to locate some items. During this time he struck up a conversation with her and was flirting a bit. Her comeback was this statement; "you are bothering me. if you do not stop bothering me, I will call the Police!!!" I shit you not. There was nothing averse in my friends demeanor, actions or intent, yet this was the SOP for this western woman to shut down any interested party.

Shocking yet totally plausible. This illustrates well how completely uptight people have gotten in the West doesn't it? It's a social plague. Anyone want to argue that this is perfectly good and normal? People certainly weren't this hostile a decade or two ago.

[mark45y]

I have asked a woman to dance in a disco in Florida and been told, “not tonight gramps.” So I see where you are coming from. I have asked women to dance all over Thailand and have been met with nothing but smiles although I must admit I go to few discos here. I went to one with a hired entourage, three male bodyguards and three female fluffers. The evening was a bit expensive but worked out quite well. At 40 baht to the dollar I was a big spender.

What I really find interesting about women in the West is the male reaction to those women. They think it is NORMAL.

Now that is just plane goofy. I am not married. I have a lot of fun in Thailand. I don't think that is bragging. It is a statement of fact. I outgrew bar girls a few years ago as I learned how to speak Thai. Now when I go to bars it is to party. I buy a couple of bottles and am generous with them.

A couple of ladies took me to a country bar here, the waitresses wore short jean skirts and cowboy hats. The customers were working Thai guys, oil and gas. They had cash because it was not a cheap place. Outdoors, so the music volume was tolerable. The men outnumbered the women at first but as the evening wore on, more and more women showed up. Some from other clubs that were slow and some working girls who hadn't scored. These women got rip roaring drunk. They were on a mission to have fun.

It cost me the price of a couple of quarts of whiskey and the usual charges for ice, water and a bit of food. 400 baht per bottle of whiskey, all in all 2000 baht. I was 20 years older than anyone in the place. I like Thai country music Carabao, peua chiwit. I don't know if everyone there liked me but I surly was tolerated. I picked out a couple of Thai Navy vets (you can tell) and bought them a few drinks and told war stories. I danced, and yahooed and had fun. I did the on the way to the rest room getting phone numbers thing.

Guys who live in the West will not believe me if I relate the complete evening. I imagine there will be a couple of people on Thai Visa who will think I am making up stories as well.

What is with that? Bar girls or the lady who works at the auto supply shop. Thai women like to have fun. What is so hard to believe about that? It is NORMAL for women to have fun.

Old guy, young guy it doesn't make any difference. The wonders of modern pharmacology have made the equipment relatively the same and the female of the species in Thailand has been quick to understand this revolution.

When I was a young man I raced in the America's cup race held in Newport RI. Ted Turner (American media mogul and philanthropist,founder of the cable news network CNN, the first dedicated 24-hour cable news channel. In addition, he founded WTBS, which pioneered the superstation concept in cable television. As a philanthropist, he is known for his $1 billion gift to support UN causes, which created the United Nations Foundation, a public charity to broaden support for the UN. Turner serves as Chairman of the United Nations Foundation board of directors.) was the defender of the Cup that year. When asked what he thought about the ladies of Newport RI, he responded, “nothing a stiff dick wouldn't cure.” Ted always had a way with words.

[bermondburi]

The evening was a bit expensive but worked out quite well. At 40 baht to the dollar I was a big spender.

I buy a couple of bottles and am generous with them.

It cost me the price of a couple of quarts of whiskey and the usual charges for ice, water and a bit of food. 400 baht per bottle of whiskey, all in all 2000 baht. I was 20 years older than anyone in the place. I like Thai country music Carabao, peua chiwit. I don't know if everyone there liked me but I surly was tolerated. I picked out a couple of Thai Navy vets (you can tell) and bought them a few drinks and told war stories. I danced, and yahooed and had fun.

You " surly " were tolerated. Thai are pretty good like that. They can tolerate big spenders who are generous with whiskey without too many problems. I'd probably tolerate you too if you were buying me drinks all night !!

Might need some earplugs though !!

[mark45y]

The evening was a bit expensive but worked out quite well. At 40 baht to the dollar I was a big spender.

I buy a couple of bottles and am generous with them.

It cost me the price of a couple of quarts of whiskey and the usual charges for ice, water and a bit of food. 400 baht per bottle of whiskey, all in all 2000 baht. I was 20 years older than anyone in the place. I like Thai country music Carabao, peua chiwit. I don't know if everyone there liked me but I surly was tolerated. I picked out a couple of Thai Navy vets (you can tell) and bought them a few drinks and told war stories. I danced, and yahooed and had fun.

You " surly " were tolerated. Thai are pretty good like that. They can tolerate big spenders who are generous with whiskey without too many problems. I'd probably tolerate you too if you were buying me drinks all night !!

Might need some earplugs though !!

So where else do you get tolerated (by tolerate I assume you understand two attractive short skirted women sitting on my lap) for a bottle of 400 baht whiskey?

[bermondburi]

The evening was a bit expensive but worked out quite well. At 40 baht to the dollar I was a big spender.

I buy a couple of bottles and am generous with them.

It cost me the price of a couple of quarts of whiskey and the usual charges for ice, water and a bit of food. 400 baht per bottle of whiskey, all in all 2000 baht. I was 20 years older than anyone in the place. I like Thai country music Carabao, peua chiwit. I don't know if everyone there liked me but I surly was tolerated. I picked out a couple of Thai Navy vets (you can tell) and bought them a few drinks and told war stories. I danced, and yahooed and had fun.

You " surly " were tolerated. Thai are pretty good like that. They can tolerate big spenders who are generous with whiskey without too many problems. I'd probably tolerate you too if you were buying me drinks all night !!

Might need some earplugs though !!

So where else do you get tolerated (by tolerate I assume you understand two attractive short skirted women sitting on my lap) for a bottle of 400 baht whiskey?

I would rather be tolerated for being me and not have to buy my company.

[mark45y]

The evening was a bit expensive but worked out quite well. At 40 baht to the dollar I was a big spender.

I buy a couple of bottles and am generous with them.

It cost me the price of a couple of quarts of whiskey and the usual charges for ice, water and a bit of food. 400 baht per bottle of whiskey, all in all 2000 baht. I was 20 years older than anyone in the place. I like Thai country music Carabao, peua chiwit. I don't know if everyone there liked me but I surly was tolerated. I picked out a couple of Thai Navy vets (you can tell) and bought them a few drinks and told war stories. I danced, and yahooed and had fun.

You " surly " were tolerated. Thai are pretty good like that. They can tolerate big spenders who are generous with whiskey without too many problems. I'd probably tolerate you too if you were buying me drinks all night !!

Might need some earplugs though !!

So where else do you get tolerated (by tolerate I assume you understand two attractive short skirted women sitting on my lap) for a bottle of 400 baht whiskey?

I would rather be tolerated for being me and not have to buy my company.

As would we all. But some find out life is a stage, at an early age, some find out at a later age and some find out not at all.

Consider for just a moment. Just a fraction of a second, that you may be wrong. What you imagine to be true is actually your imagination.

Consider you may be paying a much greater price than a 400 baht bottle of whiskey. I imagine you are.

Would I rather be Hugh Hefner or me? I would rather be me.

I have a lot more women than Hugh Hefner. And from what I read they are a lot nicer. Do they smile more? I bet they do.

I know I buy my company. I have known that for at least 40 years. You know who told me that? Lou Holtz. You probably don't know who Lou Holtz is but when I was a young man Lou told me, “there is no such thing as a free lunch.”

He also told me, “A lifetime contract for a coach means if you're ahead in the third quarter and moving the ball, they can't fire you.” but that has nothing to do with anything.

[IanForbes]

Mark, I believe bermondburi mentioned he was 33 and has a young family. That puts an entirely different perspective on any subject when compared to what a man in his 60s (or older) might think. Life has a way of handing out unexpected misery at the most inopportune time. Loss of a career, a tragedy in the family, your wife leaving you for any one of a dozen reasons, or a crippling illness can alter a person's perspective in a hurry.

I had no intention of ever getting divorced, but it happened twice and not by my doing anything wrong or foolish. Maybe I was just too nice a guy and should have been an A-hole. Maybe I would have been respected more.

I once thought very much like most of the guys-n-gals here that are still in the thirties or early fourties. But, a lot can happen when you aren't expecting it. It tends to cloud all those hard and fast ideas we once held.

[bermondburi]

As would we all. But some find out life is a stage, at an early age, some find out at a later age and some find out not at all.

Consider for just a moment. Just a fraction of a second, that you may be wrong. What you imagine to be true is actually your imagination.

Consider you may be paying a much greater price than a 400 baht bottle of whiskey. I imagine you are.

Would I rather be Hugh Hefner or me? I would rather be me.

I have a lot more women than Hugh Hefner. And from what I read they are a lot nicer. Do they smile more? I bet they do.

I know I buy my company. I have known that for at least 40 years. You know who told me that? Lou Holtz. You probably don't know who Lou Holtz is but when I was a young man Lou told me, "there is no such thing as a free lunch."

He also told me, "A lifetime contract for a coach means if you're ahead in the third quarter and moving the ball, they can't fire you." but that has nothing to do with anything.

Sorry mate but you are showing your age here. So you've been buying your " company " for the past forty years. To me that says a lot about your character and personality that it appears that you don't have any real friends and you never have . You try to partonise me by playing the age experience card but at the end of the day I couldn't care less. The fact of the matter is that I have real friends that I didn't pick up down at Tesco and I don't have to pay for their whiskey either. Still , whatever makes you happy. I guess when you're the age you are you haven't got a lot to look forward to, so any friends real or imaginary are a bonus.

[mark45y]

Response to Bermondburi,

Our difference of opinion is intellectual not actual. I think I am buying companionship and you think such a thing as love and friendship really exists outside of your own mind.

I was 25 when my father's best friend sold their company out from under him. My father lost a million and back when I was 25, one million dollars was a lot of money.

There were 300 people at my fathers funeral. His old best friends widow handed me a check for $100,000 she felt guilty after hearing the funeral eulogy for my father.

I would say if you want a friend get a dog. You would not agree with me. OK.

I was in the Army and the most dangerous foe I faced was the Army, my Army. I doubt you have been in the Army.

I have been married three times. I won't go there.

I bet you like team sports. I was a long distance runner and slalom skier.

Happiness? I think you like surprises. I think Thailand and life in general holds many surprises in store for you. Good, that will make you happy.

Me? I don't think Thailand holds many surprises for me. I don't like surprises. So perhaps we are both happy in our own way.

There is a Thai expression, เดินตามผู้ใหญ่ หมาไม่กัด

Transliteration: Dern tarm phu-yai mha mai khud

“When you follow the old man and the dogs will not bite.”

[samran]

^^

Stupid people marrying what are most likely bar girls - oh sorry 'waitresses' - and then wondering why it all goes to sh

!t

Another who has moved on from hanging out with bg's and likes to knock others.

He is not knocking people who hang out with bar girls. He is knocking men who marry them and then are surprised at the almost inevitable results.

What Ulysses said.

Truth be told, never have touched a bar girl. Don't dig going where millions have gone before.I also have no wish to have to visit Buriram on a regular basis.

Nevertheless, I do have a certain respect for them, especially the older ones. Having had to take umteen mates to 'a show' when they visit Thailand, getting to chat to some of them I got a huge insight into how they string along punters. Great strategies and a fascinating insight into human psychology and how easily led punters are.

My parents opened up one of the first Thai restaurants in Australia in the 70's. I grew up watching geezers (old and young) come back from their holiday in Thailand with their "new love" in tow. I also watched how 80% of those relationships went to crap in the most horrible ways.

Men marrying women who were mad as cut snakes. Arguably those men should never be allowed to have relationships either. Entirely clueless.

For me, trying to marry a BG is akin to shooting yourself in the head, in slow motion.

Despite loving living in Thailand, I don't have "Bamboo fever" either. Asian chicks don't do it for me.

I have one Thai woman in my life, my mother. I love her to bits, but one Thai female in my life is more than enough for me.

[bermondburi]

Response to Bermondburi,

Our difference of opinion is intellectual not actual. I think I am buying companionship and you think such a thing as love and friendship really exists outside of your own mind.

I was 25 when my father's best friend sold their company out from under him. My father lost a million and back when I was 25, one million dollars was a lot of money.

There were 300 people at my fathers funeral. His old best friends widow handed me a check for $100,000 she felt guilty after hearing the funeral eulogy for my father.

I would say if you want a friend get a dog. You would not agree with me. OK.

I was in the Army and the most dangerous foe I faced was the Army, my Army. I doubt you have been in the Army.

I have been married three times. I won't go there.

I bet you like team sports. I was a long distance runner and slalom skier.

Happiness? I think you like surprises. I think Thailand and life in general holds many surprises in store for you. Good, that will make you happy.

Me? I don't think Thailand holds many surprises for me. I don't like surprises. So perhaps we are both happy in our own way.

There is a Thai expression, เดินตามผู้ใหญ่ หมาไม่กัด

Transliteration: Dern tarm phu-yai mha mai khud

"When you follow the old man and the dogs will not bite."

Yes you're right, I do believe that love and friendship exists outside of my mind. I know that my parents love me unconditionally and that I love them. I know that I love my wife and kids and they love me. When I get home from work and my children run up to me and give me a big hug I know that they love me. This isn't that strange and I think that most people would say the same. This is pretty much the way things are but if you don't believe in all that rubbish that's up to you.

You mention your dad's friend but he obviously wasn't a friend was he if he did that was he.

You seem to not believe that people can actually have friends. I find that very sad. You must be very lonely when all you can do is buy company night after night and none of it is real.

Don't really see what being in the army has got to do with anything. You might want to explain that one.

You've been married three times. Got to laugh at that. That doesn't surprise me. So you're not very good at relationships or you're a bad judge of character. Either way you're on your own now. You must have some children though so I guess that is good.

Team sports. <deleted>. Are you trying to say that this is an indication of me needing to be with people, interact with people and you're the lone ranger who doesn't need anyone or who doesn't want to be with anyone. Please explain rather than speaking in riddles.

Football. swimming and snooker for your information so a bit of a range there.

Many people go through life living quite happily with their partners and family without it all falling apart. About half of all couples stay together ( not you though as you failed three times ) so why can't I be one of them. I'm not saying I will but we'll see what happens. So far so good, that's the way I look at things. If it doesn't work out then it doesn't work out. But you seem to be waiting for some schadenfreud moment to happen to me , judging by the way you talk about surprises. ( the knowledgable old man routine ). Don't worry about me and my life in Thailand. In fact things just keep on getting better and better. I'm making more and more money, the children are getting easier to live with. But if everything went wrong then it wouldn't be the end of the world. As my wife says " what are you going to do with all this stuff when you die, you can't take it with you ". And she's right. I started out in life with nothing so believe me I know how to live with nothing. Of course life has surprises, but to me that's part of living. Swings and roundabouts, sometimes you're up and sometimes you're down. Right now I'm up but next year I could be down. I'll take my chances, on life, and on people.

I would say that Thailand holds absolutely no surprises for you and if that's the way you like it good for you. You're someone who has previously said that you believe that 50% of Thai women are prostitutes or they have been at one time or another , so I think we all know where you hang out in your life with no surprises, and who you're hanging out with. To qoute you " I was a bit of a legend in Pattaya ". But like you said perhaps we are both happy.

To end with another Thai saying seeing how that seems to be the thing to do.

Every elephant has two hind legs.

[mark45y]

Response to Bermondburi,

Our difference of opinion is intellectual not actual. I think I am buying companionship and you think such a thing as love and friendship really exists outside of your own mind.

I was 25 when my father's best friend sold their company out from under him. My father lost a million and back when I was 25, one million dollars was a lot of money.

There were 300 people at my fathers funeral. His old best friends widow handed me a check for $100,000 she felt guilty after hearing the funeral eulogy for my father.

I would say if you want a friend get a dog. You would not agree with me. OK.

I was in the Army and the most dangerous foe I faced was the Army, my Army. I doubt you have been in the Army.

I have been married three times. I won't go there.

I bet you like team sports. I was a long distance runner and slalom skier.

Happiness? I think you like surprises. I think Thailand and life in general holds many surprises in store for you. Good, that will make you happy.

Me? I don't think Thailand holds many surprises for me. I don't like surprises. So perhaps we are both happy in our own way.

There is a Thai expression, เดินตามผู้ใหญ่ หมาไม่กัด

Transliteration: Dern tarm phu-yai mha mai khud

"When you follow the old man and the dogs will not bite."

Yes you're right, I do believe that love and friendship exists outside of my mind. I know that my parents love me unconditionally and that I love them. I know that I love my wife and kids and they love me. When I get home from work and my children run up to me and give me a big hug I know that they love me. This isn't that strange and I think that most people would say the same. This is pretty much the way things are but if you don't believe in all that rubbish that's up to you.

You mention your dad's friend but he obviously wasn't a friend was he if he did that was he.

You seem to not believe that people can actually have friends. I find that very sad. You must be very lonely when all you can do is buy company night after night and none of it is real.

Don't really see what being in the army has got to do with anything. You might want to explain that one.

You've been married three times. Got to laugh at that. That doesn't surprise me. So you're not very good at relationships or you're a bad judge of character. Either way you're on your own now. You must have some children though so I guess that is good.

Team sports. <deleted>. Are you trying to say that this is an indication of me needing to be with people, interact with people and you're the lone ranger who doesn't need anyone or who doesn't want to be with anyone. Please explain rather than speaking in riddles.

Football. swimming and snooker for your information so a bit of a range there.

Many people go through life living quite happily with their partners and family without it all falling apart. About half of all couples stay together ( not you though as you failed three times ) so why can't I be one of them. I'm not saying I will but we'll see what happens. So far so good, that's the way I look at things. If it doesn't work out then it doesn't work out. But you seem to be waiting for some schadenfreud moment to happen to me , judging by the way you talk about surprises. ( the knowledgable old man routine ). Don't worry about me and my life in Thailand. In fact things just keep on getting better and better. I'm making more and more money, the children are getting easier to live with. But if everything went wrong then it wouldn't be the end of the world. As my wife says " what are you going to do with all this stuff when you die, you can't take it with you ". And she's right. I started out in life with nothing so believe me I know how to live with nothing. Of course life has surprises, but to me that's part of living. Swings and roundabouts, sometimes you're up and sometimes you're down. Right now I'm up but next year I could be down. I'll take my chances, on life, and on people.

I would say that Thailand holds absolutely no surprises for you and if that's the way you like it good for you. You're someone who has previously said that you believe that 50% of Thai women are prostitutes or they have been at one time or another , so I think we all know where you hang out in your life with no surprises, and who you're hanging out with. To qoute you " I was a bit of a legend in Pattaya ". But like you said perhaps we are both happy.

To end with another Thai saying seeing how that seems to be the thing to do.

Every elephant has two hind legs.

I don't find you sad. I find you young and inexperienced.

That is not to say that youth and inexperience is not a valuable commodity.

Most countries have an age criteria in electing a leader.

And surprise of surprises there is no upper age limit only a lower age limit.

I can think of lots of places youth and inexperience are preferred over age and experience. The front lines of battle are a good place. Marriage is another. So is playing Aussie rules football. Even Hitler banned Aussie rules football as being too violent. Don't get me wrong I like to watch Aussie rules football. But to play it one has to have a complete disregard for life and limb. Ice hockey seems gentle by comparison.

Please don't misunderstand or think I don't have friends or make friends easily. I have many friends. It is not a Thai expression but it could be, “have many friends, love but a few and always paddle your own canoe.”

The bit about the Army referred to the impression that your own army is supposed to take care of you. Experienced soldiers know that not to be true. The Gallipoli Campaign and Singapore are two examples of my point of view.

I think my father was a bit like you. When facing betrayal by his best friend his mental fabric was shaken to the core. If he had been prepared for it or admitted it as a possibility he would have bounced back. But he didn't or couldn't, he simply withdrew into himself and eventually died.

At 30 I was married only one time. Perhaps I would have sounded more like you at 30.

You know what “rope a dope” is? It is a fighting style that can be used by an older fighter to beat a younger stronger man.

Rope a dope in relationships has been perfected in Thailand by the fairer sex. It is not a quick victory sometimes it takes years. The Thai smile is a major component of the rope a dope style. Which is why I mention it here and of course I would never go off topic.

To determine how many Thai women have experience with the P4P industry do the following calculation.

How many women are directly or indirectly involved in the business today?

How long do those women stay active in the business?

Multiply accordingly and divide accordingly by the number of Thai women of a marriageable age. And you will have the percent of Thai women with experience in the P4P industry.

I won't hazard another guess I will leave it to the mathematicians. I would use a period of 10 years as a base for calculations. Maybe 20 if one stretches the ideal marriage age a bit.

[IanForbes]

Listen to Mark, bermondburi. He speaks the truth in many things. You can disagree all you want, but if 50% of what he says is true then you better pay heed. Mark hasn't said you are wrong and neither will I, but at least be aware that you can make all the plans you want and live up to your own high ideals, and still have it all taken away from you without anything you can do about it.

You know what “rope a dope” is? It is a fighting style that can be used by an older fighter to beat a younger stronger man.

Rope a dope in relationships has been perfected in Thailand by the fairer sex. It is not a quick victory sometimes it takes years. The Thai smile is a major component of the rope a dope style. Which is why I mention it here and of course I would never go off topic.

That is a good assessment. Asians have a LOT of patience when it comes to what they hope for and have planned. Someone once asked a Chinese general how long the war would take. His answer was "How long do you want to wait... one day, one week, one month, one year, or 100 years. It will take as long as it takes to get the job done. There is no time limit. Westerners have to be aware of that.

At 33 you are only a child in an adult form. We wish you the best and hope nothing goes wrong in your life. You've got at least a 50 - 50 chance, and there's not a dam_n thing you can do to change it... no matter how well you plan.

[dmax]

YOUR NAME SAYS IT ALL

[domprz]

At 33 you are only a child in an adult form.

Gracias El Patron. You make me feel young again.

[StreetCowboy]

At 33 you are only a child in an adult form.

Gracias El Patron. You make me feel young again.

I think Ian is younger than both of us put together

SC

[ThaiTrav]

Perhaps the financial results of their recent closing of the airport,bombings fires,curfews is starting to kick in!! Som Nom Na!

[StreetCowboy]

Perhaps the financial results of their recent closing of the airport,bombings fires,curfews is starting to kick in!! Som Nom Na!

I don;t really see what money has to do with it. Thais don;t seem to stop chasing money when they are happy, nor stop being happy when they have no money.

More likely it is in your perception, I find that people who talk about bombings and unrest are less happy than those who don't/

It;s an Alternative Ulster

I suppose its the stiff little fingers that make it relevant

SC

[domprz]

The Thai economy has bloomed and diversified. To ingratiate oneself with a foreigner is only one of the options for escaping poverty. Perhaps that's why Thais don't seem to smile as much as they used to.

This may be off-topic but picture a split scene:

On the left is Mark45 with Thai girls sitting on his lap, forlornly holding an empty whiskey bottle.

On the right is Bermondburi with his children sitting on his lap, equally hoping for some attention.

They're not going to get any. The two men are busy writing to each other with as much care as they would write love letters - no spelling mistakes or errors of grammar - careful attention to the construction of paragraphs and the comprehension of their replies.

They could easily get a smile from those by their side; another bottle of whiskey or another game but they prefer to write to each other. They love the challenge.

That's the way I see it. I'm not criticising. It's interesting. It makes me wonder whether Thais smile less at us because they have learned that we don't or can't see the challenge behind the surface of their smile?

Pure speculation of course

[StreetCowboy]

The Thai economy has bloomed and diversified. To ingratiate oneself with a foreigner is only one of the options for escaping poverty. Perhaps that's why Thais don't seem to smile as much as they used to.

This may be off-topic but picture a split scene:

On the left is Mark45 with Thai girls sitting on his lap, forlornly holding an empty whiskey bottle.

On the right is Bermondburi with his children sitting on his lap, equally hoping for some attention.

They're not going to get any. The two men are busy writing to each other with as much care as they would write love letters - no spelling mistakes or errors of grammar - careful attention to the construction of paragraphs and the comprehension of their replies.

They could easily get a smile from those by their side; another bottle of whiskey or another game but they prefer to write to each other. They love the challenge.

That's the way I see it. I'm not criticising. It's interesting. It makes me wonder whether Thais smile less at us because they have learned that we don't or can't see the challenge behind the surface of their smile?

Pure speculation of course

You'll have seen that the forum is quiet tonight, because the blokes with girls on their knees (no! the girls sat on the bloke's knees. Goodness me, some poeple will grab at the wrong end of any stick you offer!) Anyway, those blokes are too busy entertaining the giris, regardless of whether they are young enough to be their daughters or wives, or old enough to be their sisters or wives, or accountants, or chefs or mothers in law, and you and I are wasting our keystrokes whiling away the time....

But if you're not smiling, then its no wonder you;re miserable, particularly in thailand,

SC

[surayu]

It's interesting. It makes me wonder whether Thais smile less at us because they have learned that we don't or can't see the challenge behind the surface of their smile?

Well, i am going to tell you about my particular challenge to stay happy today, in the late evening i was testing my new state of the art newly bought cctv system, when all of a sudden i heard a dog outside barking in pain, i then said to myself, here we are again, one new dog crossed the wrong territory again, went out with my torch to put a end to it and what do i see?? 2 thai young men (middle 20's) that parked their motorcy inside my land and one of them was holding with one hand this white rice bag that wasn't really containing rice anymore, while with the other hand was having this large hammer and hammering down the dog inside the bag, i did ask what the heck they were all about, his friend was smoking a cigarette and apparently enjoying the show on the side, their answer was that the dog had bitten someone and they wanted to kill him there.....it was too late to save him unfortunately, my guess is that they came here because they probably think killing the animal in their land would bring them bad luck, tomorrow they will probably be up again at 4am to offer food to the walking monk to get their blessing....it doesn't matter how hard sometime you try to be happy and smile, this sort of "krap" would just take it away, by now i guess i am probably be seen as one of the most grumpy,selfish foreigner ever here, who cares?! i don't give food or other offerings to monks and also i would never savagedly kill a dog that way, what a ruthless population, honestly my views of them is getting lower and lower.....