Whitening Lotion

[Felix Lynn]

When I first visited Thailand, I was watching Thai TV one night. A commerical for whitening cream came on. While I can't remember it in detail, I do remember "black face" make up being used. I was very surprised! I think it was like, when the light of the cream showed on the woman's face she was pale faced and beautiful and then when the light of the cream missed her face, she was black faced and ugly. It was really derogatory.

That commerical was my introduction to Thai obsession with white skin. Since then, I've listened to the most stunningly beautiful dark skinned women say they are ugly because they are "black" or dark. Another shocking experience the first time. Also, when I was a teacher in Thailand, one of my Thai collegues told me under her breath: "The Director, he's black on the face. Very black." She said it like she was embarrassed or like it really mattered to me, which it didn't.

Now we learn this weekend, though maybe obvious to many for sometime, that many of the "whitening creams" are dangerous and cause serious health risks.

If someone more experienced than myself has the energy, could you explain this obsession? Where is comes from? Who propagated it? Why it persists? And any other comments you might have. Thanks.

Please post your comments here.

Also, if you would like, post a comment on Radio Bangkok's listener comment line, please do. Leave a message of any length at: 02-207-2677.

Thanks again.

Edited August 28, 2005 by Felix Lynn

[snoophound]

Its a sun thing

If you are very dark your work in the fields thus poor and lowclass.

If white...pampered,wealthy,etc etc

Same in China

When I first visited Thailand, I was watching Thai TV one night. A commerical for whitening cream came on. While I can't remember it in detail, I do remember "black face" make up being used. I was very surprised! I think it was like, when the light of the cream showed on the woman's face she was pale faced and beautiful and then when the light of the cream missed her face, she was black faced and ugly. It was really derogatory.

That commerical was my introduction to Thai obsession with white skin. Since then, I've listened to the most stunningly beautiful dark skinned women say they are ugly because they are "black" or dark.  Another shocking experience the first time. Also, when I was a teacher in Thailand, one of my Thai collegues told me under her breath: "The Director, he's black on the face. Very black." She said it like she was embarrassed or like it really mattered to me, which it didn't.

Now we learn this weekend, though maybe obvious to many for sometime, that many of the "whitening creams" are dangerous and cause serious health risks.

If someone more experienced than myself has the energy, could you explain this obsession? Where is comes from? Who propagated it? Why it persists? And any other comments you might have. Thanks.

Please post your comments here.

Also, if you would like, post a comment on Radio Bangkok's listener comment line, please do. Leave a message of any length at: 02-207-2677.

Thanks again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[aughie]

In a certain district in China amongst the indigenous people the black-assed women, with their tanned lower backs from stooping and picking tea, are prized as good workers thus good wives. I don't think the Chinese see it that way though.

[snoophound]

fascinating ....ever so practical the chinese.

I guess the secondary/other reason is they want to look more falang.

Its not just whitening,its getting rid of the flat features,noses,chins etc.

In a certain district in China amongst the indigenous people the black-assed women, with their tanned lower backs from stooping and picking tea,  are prized as good workers thus good wives.  I don't think the Chinese see it that way though. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Boo]

It was also explained to me as the class thing, if dark skin must be poor as have to work outside but white skinned people must be rich as they can stay inside when the sun is hot. I was always getting told off if I didn't cover up when out & got a sun tan as my very fair skin is considered very desirable whereas I always thought the darker skin was desirable but unattainable due to my colouring

[Steve2UK]

It's not just a Thai thing - I saw exactly the same everywhere I've been in the Philippines and it's quite common in Malaysia.

As already mentioned, the most common reason is to distinguish between "lowly" peasants who have no choice but to be out in the sun and their "superiors" who have the means/status to avoid it. Same was true in Europe until circumstances/habits changed and a tan indicated that you had the money to "fly to the sun".

That said, I do think there's an ingrained racism in many Thai who regard the paler skin as signifying superior ancestry - latterly combined with a certain envy/imitation of most things European (as in caucasian). I've noticed something similar in Thai advertising where you frequently see models chosen for their Eurasian appearance - to the extent that you often have to look hard to decide whether they're Thai or caucasian.

[Khun Jean]

My wife, who has a light brown skin, but gets very dark when we go swimming walking, having a great outdoor time.

She gets laughed at by her "friends". Until she said, i am happy to not be so white, i am not working 10-12 hours in a stupid office all time for a few thousand baht. I enjoy myself instead. The laughing stopped quickly when they realised that a sun tanned skin can also be of someone more successfull then them.

When i hear stories from my grandma (88 years old) it is amazing how the Netherlands in the old days was very much like thailand. People were seen as poor farmers, now these same farmers are probably the richest because they own a lot of land.

In 1-2 generation or so a sun tanned skin will be a sign of independence and succes, same as in the western world.

[Gazza]

Its a sun thing

If you are very dark your work in the fields thus poor and lowclass.

If white...pampered,wealthy,etc etc

Same in China

My rich armpits are whiter than my face because I use an underarm deoderant with whitener.

Yet my poor sun-tanned face still looks down on my armpits.

Edited August 28, 2005 by Gazza

[DJ Pat]

I laugh cos if you' see the women who've been using whitening products for a long time they look hideous.

[frodo]

Now we learn this weekend, though maybe obvious to many for sometime, that many of the "whitening creams" are dangerous and cause serious health risks.

The sad part is that people don't care at all, as long as it makes them "whiter." Who cares about the level of mercury in the products or the amounts of bleach, ammonia and hydrogen peroxide.

They found eight creams exceeded the U.S. Food and Drug Administration safety limits for mercury. All eight brands came from China or Taiwan, prompting Lam to predict this could be "the tip of the iceberg" because the creams have been available for several years and widely used.

When Lam phoned one Chinese supplier, he was told: "What is wrong with a little mercury in the cream, as long as it can make ladies beautiful."

Source CNN: Skin To Die For At least the supplier was honest.

[BambinA]

That commerical was my introduction to Thai obsession with white skin. Since then, I've listened to the most stunningly beautiful dark skinned women say they are ugly because they are "black" or dark.  Another shocking experience the first time. Also, when I was a teacher in Thailand, one of my Thai collegues told me under her breath: "The Director, he's black on the face. Very black." She said it like she was embarrassed or like it really mattered to me, which it didn't.

Now we learn this weekend, though maybe obvious to many for sometime, that many of the "whitening creams" are dangerous and cause serious health risks.

If someone more experienced than myself has the energy, could you explain this obsession? Where is comes from? Who propagated it? Why it persists? And any other comments you might have. Thanks.

Please post your comments here.

Thanks again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hello All ! This is gintonic using bambi ID

I am half Thai-Chinese so my skin is quite light and fair comparing to Thai in general. Once I was complaining with my american friend how I wanted my skin to be whiter - he was kinda shocked shouting at me how white my skin is and that I already looked like a ghost (he was so exaggerating I know!)

I don't want to look like a farang but my comments on this topic would be :

- white skin makes you look clean and fresh

- white skin is easier to put on make up, you can apply many color shades on your face and if you don't put any make up at all you still look good

- white skin gives you a better chance to wear most colors of clothes even ugly green!

- for some reason Thai men prefer girls with light skin (ask them why!) - that's another reason why women here want to have white skin - they feel that having light skin will attract men more .. er.. well ..

After all, I think this idea is similar to the obsession of many white men who want to have tan skin as they think it makes them look more healthy. So they do sun- bathing and all under the very strong sun. We also doubt if the skin cancer is really healthy for you ...

Human are never sastisfied in what they have, are they? (are we?)

gintOnic

[df358]

It is better to be fair, u can have a tan colour if u want, but not vice versa.

[Khun Jean]

From my point of view as a "farang".

- white skin makes you look clean and fresh

*It makes you look sick and tired. And If you have veins close under the skin it will show much more. When you have a pimple it will show as a big red spot. On brown skin it is more camouflaged.

- white skin is easier to put on make up, you can apply many color shades on your face and if you don't put any make up at all you still look good

*Brown skin doesn't need make up. It is natural beauty.

- white skin gives you a better chance to wear most colors of clothes even ugly green!

*Light color clothes look great on a brown skin. Dark clothes too. On a white skin light colored clothes make you look like a ghost and dark clothes with its very strong contrasts makes it look like you go to a funeral.

- for some reason Thai men prefer girls with light skin (ask them why!) - that's another reason why women here want to have white skin - they feel that having light skin will attract men more .. er.. well ..

Great. More beautiful brown skinned woman will attract farangs.

Above comments are meant about an unnatural white skin!

Natural light skin is just as beatifull.

People with white skin have more problems with the sun as it gives little or no protection.

I prefer a little tanned skin for myself, it makes my skin more "even" and look more healthy.

If you want to have a lighter skin, stay out of the sun. In time it will get lighter. If you use products to make it lighter you are going to have skin problems later that will be a lot worse than having a brown skin. In Europe we had the opposite, creams to make you browner. Which gave a rather strange color that did not look natural. With the whitening it is the same. You not look more white you look grey, like a 3 day old corpse.

Edited August 28, 2005 by Khun Jean

[Nordlys]

Hi gintonic and bambina

After all, I think this idea is similar to the obsession of many white men who want to have tan skin as they think it makes them look more healthy. So they do sun- bathing and all under the very strong sun. We also doubt if the skin cancer is really healthy for you ...

Human are never sastisfied in what they have, are they? (are we?) 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly. I'm from Japan and tanning salon/parlors is a big business there. High school girls in Japan tend to compete the darkenss of their skin from tanning in the summer.

I guess the secondary/other reason is they want to look more falang.

I think they want to look more Japanese (and Korean?) than farang.

[daleyboy]

When I first visited Thailand, I was watching Thai TV one night. A commerical for whitening cream came on. While I can't remember it in detail, I do remember "black face" make up being used. I was very surprised! I think it was like, when the light of the cream showed on the woman's face she was pale faced and beautiful and then when the light of the cream missed her face, she was black faced and ugly. It was really derogatory.

That commerical was my introduction to Thai obsession with white skin. Since then, I've listened to the most stunningly beautiful dark skinned women say they are ugly because they are "black" or dark.  Another shocking experience the first time. Also, when I was a teacher in Thailand, one of my Thai collegues told me under her breath: "The Director, he's black on the face. Very black." She said it like she was embarrassed or like it really mattered to me, which it didn't.

Now we learn this weekend, though maybe obvious to many for sometime, that many of the "whitening creams" are dangerous and cause serious health risks.

If someone more experienced than myself has the energy, could you explain this obsession? Where is comes from? Who propagated it? Why it persists? And any other comments you might have. Thanks.

Please post your comments here.

Also, if you would like, post a comment on Radio Bangkok's listener comment line, please do. Leave a message of any length at: 02-207-2677.

Thanks again.

No differnce Felix to us white farangs wanting to be black/dark skinned. We too have an obbsession with being tanned. This is also very bad for the skin, but it still doesnt stop us from getting on the sunbeds before we go on holiday then lying out in the midday heat to get burnt to a crisp.

I believe the saying is only mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday heat.

I personally think people should just stick with the skin colour they have. I am white i dont want skin cancer so i dont go out in the sun to get burned, i always wear protection, just like i think dark skinned people have beautiful skin and really shouldnt try and make it white.

[gintOnic]

It is better to be fair, u can have a tan colour if u want, but not vice versa.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I totally agree with this.

From my point of view as a "farang".

If you want to have a lighter skin, stay out of the sun. In time it will get lighter. If you use products to make it lighter you are going to have skin problems later that will be a lot worse than having a brown skin. In Europe we had the opposite, creams to make you browner. Which gave a rather strange color that did not look natural. With the whitening it is the same. You not look more white you look grey, like a 3 day old corpse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can understand your point of view as a farang - that's why I was expressing how Thai women thinks as my point of view as a "Thai"

After all those written by me under bambi's ID - I don't use those products to make me lighter though - I may wish to have whiter skin but I am not dying not having one.

Just like what df358 said, It is better to be fair, u can have a tan colour if u want, but not vice versa.

gintOnic

Edited August 28, 2005 by gintonic

[ronz28]

Nothing is more beautiful than the dark tan of Thai skin. My Thai wife has always covered up or avoided the sun but our two daughters now married and in their twenties have gone to tanning salons since their high school days to get a better tan. Just goes to show you that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. Its also far more silky soft to the touch that white farang skin.

[gintOnic]

Nothing is more beautiful than the dark tan of Thai skin.  My Thai wife has always covered up or avoided the sun but our two daughters now married and in their twenties have gone to tanning salons since their high school days to get a better tan.  Just goes to show you that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.  Its also far more silky soft to the touch that white farang skin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yah, what that really matter is your skin quality. No matter white, brown or black .. as long as it is soft and smooth hmm...

gintOnic

[Nordlys]

Its also far more silky soft to the touch that white farang skin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So what does touch of farang skin feel like? Like a shark skin?

I've never got laid with farang in my life (and now married to TW so never will in this life!) so can't help but imagine what their skin feels like.

[Ice Maiden]

Its also far more silky soft to the touch that white farang skin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So what does touch of farang skin feel like? Like a shark skin?

I've never got laid with farang in my life (and now married to TW so never will in this life!) so can't help but imagine what their skin feels like.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Our skin does feel soft, well for the ladies that look after their skin anyway.

[IMA_FARANG]

When I first visited Thailand, I was watching Thai TV one night. A commerical for whitening cream came on. While I can't remember it in detail, I do remember "black face" make up being used. I was very surprised! I think it was like, when the light of the cream showed on the woman's face she was pale faced and beautiful and then when the light of the cream missed her face, she was black faced and ugly. It was really derogatory.

That commerical was my introduction to Thai obsession with white skin. Since then, I've listened to the most stunningly beautiful dark skinned women say they are ugly because they are "black" or dark.  Another shocking experience the first time. Also, when I was a teacher in Thailand, one of my Thai collegues told me under her breath: "The Director, he's black on the face. Very black." She said it like she was embarrassed or like it really mattered to me, which it didn't.

Now we learn this weekend, though maybe obvious to many for sometime, that many of the "whitening creams" are dangerous and cause serious health risks.

If someone more experienced than myself has the energy, could you explain this obsession? Where is comes from? Who propagated it? Why it persists? And any other comments you might have. Thanks.

Please post your comments here.

Also, if you would like, post a comment on Radio Bangkok's listener comment line, please do. Leave a message of any length at: 02-207-2677.

Thanks again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

According to my Burmese friend the same occurs in Burma (or Myamar). it is common to ask when the baby is born, "Is it fair?". (Meaning is it white-skinned). it has to do with having Euopean (British) looks. A European -English looking baby adds the possibility of British a connection in the family.

[DJ Moore]

Its a sun thing

If you are very dark your work in the fields thus poor and lowclass.

If white...pampered,wealthy,etc etc

Same in China

When I first visited Thailand, I was watching Thai TV one night. A commerical for whitening cream came on. While I can't remember it in detail, I do remember "black face" make up being used. I was very surprised! I think it was like, when the light of the cream showed on the woman's face she was pale faced and beautiful and then when the light of the cream missed her face, she was black faced and ugly. It was really derogatory.

Snoophound, A very direct (and in a nut shell) answer. Best responce to the question so far.................. DJM

[snoophound]

Interesting

Have you noticed Thais do not sit in the sun at the beach

The only thai girls I have seen tanning ,have been LBS or tatooed BGS looking to pull..

My missus avoids the sun like the plague when we holiday in Thailand,I not like black colour skin and make my face look old.

Its amzing how quickly she can tan though.I like the tan,its hard to see them burn though.

Her older sis goes to the sun clinic here in aus.....but then shes much more aussified now after 12 years here.

Daughter is Thai and 20 shes fully into the whiteface look as are all her friends at School here in Sydney.....The Thai Teen mags seem to promote it big time.

When I first visited Thailand, I was watching Thai TV one night. A commerical for whitening cream came on. While I can't remember it in detail, I do remember "black face" make up being used. I was very surprised! I think it was like, when the light of the cream showed on the woman's face she was pale faced and beautiful and then when the light of the cream missed her face, she was black faced and ugly. It was really derogatory.

That commerical was my introduction to Thai obsession with white skin. Since then, I've listened to the most stunningly beautiful dark skinned women say they are ugly because they are "black" or dark.  Another shocking experience the first time. Also, when I was a teacher in Thailand, one of my Thai collegues told me under her breath: "The Director, he's black on the face. Very black." She said it like she was embarrassed or like it really mattered to me, which it didn't.

Now we learn this weekend, though maybe obvious to many for sometime, that many of the "whitening creams" are dangerous and cause serious health risks.

If someone more experienced than myself has the energy, could you explain this obsession? Where is comes from? Who propagated it? Why it persists? And any other comments you might have. Thanks.

Please post your comments here.

Also, if you would like, post a comment on Radio Bangkok's listener comment line, please do. Leave a message of any length at: 02-207-2677.

Thanks again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No differnce Felix to us white farangs wanting to be black/dark skinned. We too have an obbsession with being tanned. This is also very bad for the skin, but it still doesnt stop us from getting on the sunbeds before we go on holiday then lying out in the midday heat to get burnt to a crisp.

I believe the saying is only mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday heat.

I personally think people should just stick with the skin colour they have. I am white i dont want skin cancer so i dont go out in the sun to get burned, i always wear protection, just like i think dark skinned people have beautiful skin and really shouldnt try and make it white.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[wilko]

It used to be the same in western society; a dark skin inferred you worked outside and were therefore a labourer etc. So too short hair.

I think it was film star Heddi Lamar who first made the concept of tanning popular for rich people, this coupled with the Nazis' obsession with eugenics and the idea that a tan is healthy has stuck.

The truth of the matter is that if you have a tan, your skin has already been damaged; the release of melanin in thhe skin is a protective reaction to the damage already caused by UV.

The second issue of whiteners; it is somewhat disturbing to see that all the major western cosmetics companies offer these products...would they pass our safety regulations back home?

[wilko]

It used to be the same in western society; a dark skin inferred you worked outside and were therefore a labourer etc. So too short hair.

I think it was film star Heddi Lamar who first made the concept of tanning popular for rich people, this coupled with the Nazis' obsession with eugenics and the idea that a tan is healthy has stuck.

The truth of the matter is that if you have a tan, your skin has already been damaged; the release of melanin in thhe skin is a protective reaction to the damage already caused by UV.

The second issue of whiteners; it is somewhat disturbing to see that all the major western cosmetics companies offer these products...would they pass our safety regulations back home?

[buadhai]

Its a sun thing

If you are very dark your work in the fields thus poor and lowclass.

If white...pampered,wealthy,etc etc

Same in China

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps, but it's more than that. How about the underarm deodorant that "whitens" or the cream designed to turn nipples pink? You don't get white underarms or pink nipples by staying out of the sun.

In my opinion it's a racist thing.

[george]

This topic will be featured in todays Thailand Today @ Radio Bangkok at 5pm, info here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=43399

http://www.radiobangkok.net

[SiamOne]

Its a sun thing

If you are very dark your work in the fields thus poor and lowclass.

If white...pampered,wealthy,etc etc

Same in China

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps, but it's more than that. How about the underarm deodorant that "whitens" or the cream designed to turn nipples pink? You don't get white underarms or pink nipples by staying out of the sun.

In my opinion it's a racist thing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's nothing to do with race!! it is just fashion and perception. The same race people can be white or brown, it just depends on your pigmentation!!

when I have been to the beach and return home, everyone says, you so black, why? I say that I have been having a nice time.

my hubbie likes my colour, and would not contemplate me whitening my skin. I have become happy with myself because of him, I never want to be whiter now.

I dont need makeup, I can wear nice colour clothes...who wants to look like a ghost??

[BambinA]

Im Mixed Chinese-Thai , my skin was Fair ...but i love beach, so i go there every few months ..no more white anymore... manytime Parent's friends ask my mom 'n dad .." ohh your daughter look toooooo THAI !! how come??"

before this i concerned myself about TAN skin ...but nowaday ..no more care, never used whitening lotion

if someone love me, he'd love me at my heart and brian , not my skin's color.

Bambi

[Tyree D.]

Its also far more silky soft to the touch that white farang skin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So what does touch of farang skin feel like? Like a shark skin?

I've never got laid with farang in my life (and now married to TW so never will in this life!) so can't help but imagine what their skin feels like.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

and I don't know what anything non-Thai feels like (I really don't).