Thai Firms Say Red Shirt Protests Threaten Jobs

[whybother]

According to the other paper, the two sides (Red Shirts and RSTA) have agreed to meet and discuss the issue, but a potential stumbling block is Red Shirt President Thida who continues to insist the Red Shirts will rally on January 23 at Ratchaprasong.

Are they expecting 30,000 again? Surely having a rally every 2 weeks is going to reduce the numbers at each one. People will get sick of attending so often. Even Thaksin will get sick of phoning in from an aeroplane every 2 weeks.

[rubl]

Absolutely! I don't think many people on TVF have issue with helping the rural poor. Increased infrastructure spending etc ... But many people have major issues with the Reds/PTP/Jatuporn/Arisaman etc. Even with Thida. How can you separate Thaksin from the reds when Thaksin manages their income streams and has "phone-ins"? You can't.

Some say Thida wasn't happy with the phone-in either (neither was Sombat as already mentioned on here). If you believe what Manager says, Thida and Jatuporn hate each other, but many of the UDD prefer Jatuporn because of his aggressive behavior, taking on the courts etc. Something Thaksin wouldn't even dare to do. Interestingly yellow leaning types seem to really fear Thida (they call her "Comrade Poon") much more than Jatuporn, who they consider a clown. I'm not sure about that. Whilst Thida is probably more dangerous to the status quo in the long run, there's no doubt that Jatuporn's antics are popular amongst red shirts. Personally, I'd like to see Jatuporn jailed. I've actually started to wonder if he's not being kept out of jail for some particular reason? Arisman is irrelevant, thank god.

Manager also says that Comrade Poon has sworn away from the strategy of violence (the Maoist strategy of vanguard, people's army, masses), in fact her new "horizontal" schools will partly focus on re-educating red shirts to be peaceful. Some other comrades, like Comrade Surachai from Daeng Siam aren't happy about this, apparently. They still favour a violent approach and think the system needs to be smashed, as opposed to Thida who wants to work within it. This is why some that favour violence won't accept Thida as UDD leader.

Personally I think a lot of this is yellow shirt propaganda (you probably know Manager is owned by Sondhi) and nonsensical rumours designed to discredit the UDD, I'm still not convinced they decided to use this violent Maoist strategy in the first place. I mean undoubtedly they were using some Maoist organizational theory, I even remember one leader saying this explicitly at the start of the rally. But they sat down as a collective and planned out the violence? Hard to believe. I believe if the violence was planned or part-planned by leaders, it was more likely the non ex-jungle people that planned it without the knowledge of Weng etc. People that've known them for years say doubt that they'd approve of such violent acts. I know Nattawud is close to some military people that are also close to Thaksin, so he could well've been in the know, if not the one that planned some of the violence.

Even saying you find it hard to believe violence was planned, you happen to mention at least Dr. weng, k. Natthawut, k. Arisman, k. Jatuporn and k. Surachai. A nice bunch of people who have gone on record inciting violence. They even broadcasted most on PTV for posterity

[Buchholz]

Dr. weng, k. Natthawut, k. Arisman, k. Jatuporn and k. Surachai. A nice bunch of people who have gone on record inciting violence. They even broadcasted most on PTV for posterity

plus Issan Rambo, Love Udon Thani's Kwanchai, Chulalongkorn Hospital Raiding Party Leader Payap Panket, and Chiang Mai 51 Gang Leader Kanyapak Maneejak.... it's a lengthy list of Reds, all of them variously referred to as Red Shirt Leaders, that have done so.

.

Edited January 14, 2011 by Buchholz

[Insight]

According to the other paper, the two sides (Red Shirts and RSTA) have agreed to meet and discuss the issue, but a potential stumbling block is Red Shirt President Thida who continues to insist the Red Shirts will rally on January 23 at Ratchaprasong.

.

And she's one of the more moderate ones, right?

[Emptyset]

Even saying you find it hard to believe violence was planned, you happen to mention at least Dr. weng, k. Natthawut, k. Arisman, k. Jatuporn and k. Surachai. A nice bunch of people who have gone on record inciting violence. They even broadcasted most on PTV for posterity

Surachai was only at the rally on the first couple of days, so what he thinks about violence is irrelevant. However, he is on record as saying he warned against a prolonged sit-in because he knew it'd end in chaos. I watched PTV a fair bit and also read many reports of what was said on stage and talked to a lot of others following the rallies closely and this is the first time I've heard about Weng "inciting" violence. Every time I saw him he was the voice of reason, asking people to calm down. Apparently he spoke "of" violence, of the potential for civil war & insurgency. That's just describing the situation, much like Somyot was when he talked about some reds taking things into their own hands and starting bombing campaigns etc. Speaking *of* something and threatening/inciting something isn't the same thing. It's hard to win with some because if any red shirts talk of red violence they're "inciting" it, whilst if they say reds aren't violent and it's all fake reds fault etc, they're liars (I agree, they are lying).

Actually I know for a fact that some of the violence was planned by people affiliated with the red shirts and probably involving some of the leaders (Seh Daeng yes, but he wasn't actually an official leader), but I can't say for sure. Everything I've heard so far leads me to believe that it wasn't planned as a collective though. People like Weng, Jaran and several others wouldn't accept it.

Edited January 14, 2011 by Emptyset

[Buchholz]

Not so sure it was the Reds who were actually firing those grenade launchers. Recent reports indicate otherwise.

Which reports might those be?

jdinasia Posted Yesterday, 01:01

Actually, recent CONFESSIONS have put name/names to many of the attacks. Red/red allied/ronin ... call them what you will. It was the reds.

whybother Posted Yesterday, 01:03

Yes, so maybe bulmercke can supply us with the reports that have been hidden amongst all the red shirt arrests.

Pi Sek Posted Yesterday, 18:03

now we have pro-reds arguing that the govt was the one firing grenades? Which report? I call your bluff, my friend.

=====================================================================================================================================

* BUMP *

a day and a half later, no reply

[Buchholz]

According to the other paper, the two sides (Red Shirts and RSTA) have agreed to meet and discuss the issue, but a potential stumbling block is Red Shirt President Thida who continues to insist the Red Shirts will rally on January 23 at Ratchaprasong.

.

And she's one of the more moderate ones, right?

Allegedly.

Where's that photo of her wearing the Thaksin T-shirt?

Perhaps need to re-post.

.

[Emptyset]

According to the other paper, the two sides (Red Shirts and RSTA) have agreed to meet and discuss the issue, but a potential stumbling block is Red Shirt President Thida who continues to insist the Red Shirts will rally on January 23 at Ratchaprasong.

And she's one of the more moderate ones, right?

They're going to start the rally at Rajprasong and end up at Democ for this one. So they'll only be there a couple of hours at most with a far smaller crowd (since the crowd will gradually build until they get to Democ). Sombat suggests they rally at Rajamankala Stadium. So they might just do once a month at Ratchaprasong and once elsewhere.

[Emptyset]

Allegedly.

Where's that photo of her wearing the Thaksin T-shirt?

Perhaps need to re-post.

.

It wasn't a Thaksin t-shirt. Not that that is particularly relevant to whether she's moderate or not.

[Buchholz]

RSTA said 2,088 operators lost 11 billion baht

Chai estimated that 33,000 jobs, mainly in the retail and tourism sectors, could be at risk in the Ratchaprasong area if the protests continued.

Red Shirt Leaders Maintain They Will Gather at Ratchaprasong

Red shirt leaders are meeting with representatives of the Ratchaprasong business community today at 2 P.M. Prior to the meeting, they have confirmed that they will start their gathering in the area despite calls to change venue. However, they are willing to shorten the time they spend at the Ratchaprasong intersection as to not affect business too much.

-- Tan Network 2011-01-14

Edited January 14, 2011 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

^ so perhaps only 4 billion in losses and 21,000 lost jobs?

[Insight]

Allegedly.

Where's that photo of her wearing the Thaksin T-shirt?

Perhaps need to re-post.

.

It wasn't a Thaksin t-shirt. Not that that is particularly relevant to whether she's moderate or not.

This one? It's sort-of relevant, particularly if she's claiming she doesn't care much for him.

[Emptyset]

This one? It's sort-of relevant, particularly if she's claiming she doesn't care much for him.

There are some better pics somewhere else, I forget where, but even on this pic you can see it's actually a t-shirt with the faces of all the UDD leaders, not Thaksin. http://picasaweb.google.com/noname5nowhere/RedMarch9111#5560232647554028706 I've seen a close up somewhere, so it's definitely true.

[JetsetBkk]

Sorry, but the protesters do NOT have the right to continually disrupt the lives and livelihoods of the residents and businessmen in BKK. They have the right to protest (within legal parameters) but not to pick the protest site when it directly impacts the rights of others. <snip>

Why protest if you don't inconvenience others? That's the whole point! Are you a resident or "businessman in bkk"?

I suppose you'd be happy if they all met in a field in Issan.

And please define "within legal parameters"

[rubl]

This one? It's sort-of relevant, particularly if she's claiming she doesn't care much for him.

There are some better pics somewhere else, I forget where, but even on this pic you can see it's actually a t-shirt with the faces of all the UDD leaders, not Thaksin. http://picasaweb.google.com/noname5nowhere/RedMarch9111#5560232647554028706 I've seen a close up somewhere, so it's definitely true.

The photo pointed to with the picasaweb link shows a different print on the T-shirt. The photo posted by Insight shows what looks like a heart shaped print with a.o. k. Thaksin.

(edit: add clearer picture from picasaweb site: Still a bit unclear to recognize any of the people depicted, but clearly not same as posted by Insight)

Edited January 14, 2011 by rubl

[whybother]

Sorry, but the protesters do NOT have the right to continually disrupt the lives and livelihoods of the residents and businessmen in BKK. They have the right to protest (within legal parameters) but not to pick the protest site when it directly impacts the rights of others. <snip>

Why protest if you don't inconvenience others? That's the whole point! Are you a resident or "businessman in bkk"?

I suppose you'd be happy if they all met in a field in Issan.

And please define "within legal parameters"

Are we getting red shirt supporters saying it was OK for the yellow shirts to block the airport?

[rubl]

Why protest if you don't inconvenience others? That's the whole point! Are you a resident or "businessman in bkk"?

I suppose you'd be happy if they all met in a field in Issan.

And please define "within legal parameters"

Are we getting red shirt supporters saying it was OK for the yellow shirts to block the airport?

Maybe yellow-shirt lawyers should have some red-shirts summoned as witnesses for the defense in the court case.

[Emptyset]

The photo pointed to with the picasaweb link shows a different print on the T-shirt. The photo posted by Insight shows what looks like a heart shaped print with a.o. k. Thaksin.

You're right, sorry, they are different. The one Insight posted looks like it has several different people on it too. The clearest one certainly looks like Thaksin. I'm sure she'll wear it again soon, and we'll find out.

[webfact]

Red shirts and Ratchaprasong traders strike a deal

The red shirts have agreed to cut down their rally to two hours and not to block access to the shopping malls, hotels and all building located at the Ratchaprasong intersection.

The agreement was reached on Friday during the mediation session ahead of the January 23 rally. The Metropolitan Police Bureau brokered the deal between the red-shirt movement and the Ratchaprasong Square Trade Association.

Participants at the mediation included red-shirt leader Thida Thawornseth, Pheu Thai MP Jatuporn Promphan, trade association chairman Chai Srivikorn and Metropolitan Police commissioner Lt General Jakthip Kunchorn na Ayutthaya.

Jakthip welcomed the agreement, saying it was a positive sign to ease the plight of residents and business operators at Ratchaprasong.

"With the cooperation from the red shirts, traffic police will ensure traffic flow and public access to all building located in the area," he said.

-- The Nation 2011-01-14

[Insight]

The photo pointed to with the picasaweb link shows a different print on the T-shirt. The photo posted by Insight shows what looks like a heart shaped print with a.o. k. Thaksin.

You're right, sorry, they are different. The one Insight posted looks like it has several different people on it too. The clearest one certainly looks like Thaksin. I'm sure she'll wear it again soon, and we'll find out.

Next time we might see her jacket his hiding the word "c**t"

Doubt it though.

[whybother]

Red shirt leader Thida warns Ratchaprasong businessp eople not to be enemies of group; Jatuporn says worsening econ not as bad as dead reds /TAN_Network

"Red shirt leader Thida warns Ratchaprasong business people not to be enemies of group"

Is this another example of red democracy?

[jdinasia]

Sorry, but the protesters do NOT have the right to continually disrupt the lives and livelihoods of the residents and businessmen in BKK. They have the right to protest (within legal parameters) but not to pick the protest site when it directly impacts the rights of others. <snip>

Why protest if you don't inconvenience others? That's the whole point! Are you a resident or "businessman in bkk"?

I suppose you'd be happy if they all met in a field in Issan.

And please define "within legal parameters"

How about...

No Guns, no bombs, No illegal businesses, rallies to be held in a "free speech area" like at government house, parliament, panfah bridge etc .... No stages, no sound equipment louder than a bullhorn etc. (stages and PA systems violate the law ...)

As someone else pointed out .. your tact leads not only to a 2 month seige of Rachprasong and the PAD's action at Swampy. Are you now suggesting that Swampy -- in the particular way it was handled is acceptable to you?

Thida warning business people that are affected by her group's behavior? ---- What is the "or else?" implicit in her warning, we'll burn them down?

[rubl]

begin removed ...

Thida warning business people that are affected by her group's behavior? ---- What is the "or else?" implicit in her warning, we'll burn them down?

Shouldn't that be "we'll burn them down again?"

[Buchholz]

Jatuporn's so photogenic in this banner photo of The Nation's article:

btw, do the Democracy Monument area retailers have an organization similar to RSTA that could hammer out a deal to limit the time the Reds are being a detriment to their businesses?

[hyperdimension]

Red shirt leader Thida warns Ratchaprasong businessp eople not to be enemies of group; Jatuporn says worsening econ not as bad as dead reds /TAN_Network

"Red shirt leader Thida warns Ratchaprasong business people not to be enemies of group"

Is this another example of red democracy?

"Jatuporn says worsening econ not as bad as dead reds"

I think most people think otherwise. What matters to most people are their own money and income, health and wellbeing, family and friends. All the whining about some crazy protesters who died due to their own stupidity is irrelevant irritating noise.

[hyperdimension]

btw, do the Democracy Monument area retailers have an organization similar to RSTA that could hammer out a deal to limit the time the Reds are being a detriment to their businesses?

There must be some organization that represents businesses in and around Khaosan Road, which is just meters away from Rajdamnoen Avenue.

[TAWP]

If the protests occasionally inconvenience those who like to "hang" in Bangkok's upmarket malls, screw them.There are more important issues at stake

Would you be so kind and inform us what street you live on? I feel like demonstrating - perhaps a 'Reclaim The Streets Dance Night - screw those that dislike it.

[jayboy]

If the protests occasionally inconvenience those who like to "hang" in Bangkok's upmarket malls, screw them.There are more important issues at stake

Would you be so kind and inform us what street you live on? I feel like demonstrating - perhaps a 'Reclaim The Streets Dance Night - screw those that dislike it.

You completely miss the point.My remarks were not aimed at the retailers who need to earn an honest living but at those smug Bangkokians who place their own fatuous mall rat experience over everything else.

The good news is that a sensible compromise has been worked out between the protesters, traders and police.It can be done with good will on all sides

[whybother]

If the protests occasionally inconvenience those who like to "hang" in Bangkok's upmarket malls, screw them.There are more important issues at stake

Would you be so kind and inform us what street you live on? I feel like demonstrating - perhaps a 'Reclaim The Streets Dance Night - screw those that dislike it.

You completely miss the point.My remarks were not aimed at the retailers who need to earn an honest living but at those smug Bangkokians who place their own fatuous mall rat experience over everything else.

The good news is that a sensible compromise has been worked out between the protesters, traders and police.It can be done with good will on all sides

Given that the OP *IS* about "the retailers who need to earn an honest living", and the particular post you quoted highlighted that fact, we didn't miss the point at all.

[jayboy]

If the protests occasionally inconvenience those who like to "hang" in Bangkok's upmarket malls, screw them.There are more important issues at stake

Would you be so kind and inform us what street you live on? I feel like demonstrating - perhaps a 'Reclaim The Streets Dance Night - screw those that dislike it.

You completely miss the point.My remarks were not aimed at the retailers who need to earn an honest living but at those smug Bangkokians who place their own fatuous mall rat experience over everything else.

The good news is that a sensible compromise has been worked out between the protesters, traders and police.It can be done with good will on all sides

Given that the OP *IS* about "the retailers who need to earn an honest living", and the particular post you quoted highlighted that fact, we didn't miss the point at all.

For heavens sake are you making my points for me or do I have sole rights to that privilege? Read the posts again more carefully.