NATION Journalist Held Up At Gunpoint By 'Police'

[loserlazer]

To be honest, Africans & Indians, also know as Kek by Thai, are not well look upon in Thailand. This is a known fact. Anyone want to dispute this?

What do you mean by saying anyone want to dispute it?

You are talking like this is normal and it looks like it is OK for you but it is not OK for me.

Maybe you could not beleive this story but i heard worse that that. It looks like the pressure on Blacks and Indians are getting harder these days.

I can dispute any racist behaviour even i am not a so called "Kek" and i cannot understand a Thai citizen calling someone "Kek" due to a black complexion after using tons of whiting cream to become white.

My understanding, and I have just checked this with 3 Thais from 3 different parts of Isaan, is that Khon Kak refers to Indians and would also include Nepalese Sri Lankans and Pakistanis, and also to Malaysians, but emphatically not persons of African origin, or Arabs. Despite how it sounds to westerners, this is NOT a term of insult, and originally derived from their dietary habits (no pork, etc) and requirement of Halal butchery.

c'mon man. i am living in Thailand well enough to know that it is the same insulting word like 'farang' but just directed to Arabs, Indians, Pakistanis, Nepalis, sometimes Africans and all Middle East. On top of that, there is another word called 'kek kao' which means a 'kek' who has a white complexion instead of dark such as Iranians.

Do you think you speak better thai than my Isaan friends? They are emphatic that is does not apply to Arabs or Africans. And why do you find farang insulting - it means foreigner - and is a useful way of describing expats for me?

Do not be naive man. Do you think your Isaan friends are always telling you the truth?

Please do not make me laugh and remember the fact that Thai People do not like confrontation and the term losing the face.

Your friends like many of Thai people are kind enough, they just do not want to break your hearth or they want to stay being a friend with you.

Edited January 13, 2011 by loserlazer

[joefromdc]

Do not be naive man. Do you think your Isaan friends are always telling you the truth?

Please do not make me laugh and remember the fact that Thai People do not like confrontation and the term losing the face.

They just do not want to break your hearth or they want to stay being a friend with you.

This is along the lines of what I wanted to say but wasn't sure how to phrase it without being divisive. You found a way, cheers!

I'd add, sometimes Thais give you a quick answer because they are lazy to really think beyond any answer that might take real thought.

@NikhilBkk--thanks for that post. Hard to disagree with anything you said there...

[neverdie]

A troll post and numerous replies to it have been removed. The person who made the post is on an extended holiday.

We can only hope & pray it was on a one way flight down a flooded Siberian mining shaft. :jap:

[RedNIvar]

On the issue of the word "Khek", this is what I had been told. Khek is a word used to describe a visitor. The reason it is used ONLY to describe people who look Indian (Nepalese, Pakistani, Indian, Bangladeshis, Malaysian and Singaporean Indians, Turbaned Sikhs), is because initially Indians were invited and treated as visitor a long time ago to trade with the Thais. However a number of then stayed back and started their business here, bought land and brought their families over.

When Bangkok started developing as a city, they found that a lot of these Indians had owned massive amounts of land around the Sukhumvit, Silom and Sathorn area. They became instant millionaires.

What I was told is this was the reason the Thai's changed the laws and stopped allowing foreigners to own land after this point. All these Indians who had already owned land were called "Khek" as an offensive term to describe them "Visitor who never left". Eventually the term "Khek", was used to describe anyone looking Indian.

Right or wrong, I don't know. This is what I had been told by a couple of people, it sounded feasible to me and I stuck to it.

[tolsti]

And if it had been a Bangkok Post reporter that had been held up...... nothing would have appeared on here.

[ballpoint]

The official dictionary definition of the word แขก, or kack as it is pronounced, is "n (archaic) a stranger; a foreigner, except a Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, Burmese, Lao, Cambodian or a white man; an Indian, a Malay, a negro, a person from the Near East or Middle East; a person from North Africa; a visitor; a guest". I guess it's not as archaic as the dictionary says. I must add that I hear it used far more often in shops and hotels to refer to customers and guests - of all nationalities, including Thai, than I do to refer to a foreigner.

[SteeleJoe]

think racism against Blacks and Indians in Thaland are coming from the era of emperialism and colonialism where lots of small impoverished nations was being insulted or half enslaved

loserlazer: If you think that there wouldn't be racism in Southeast Asia without the white man's influence...well, you need to rethink that (it is so classically typical of a certain mindset that I think should just not even get into what I think of that opinion).

Tanaka: Anyone who thinks Thailand (Siam) wasn't hugely impacted by imperialism just because it was never truly colonized by one power -- well, they need to learn a bit more about authentic history (and apply a little analytical/critical thought).

There are many good cops unable to operate as they would like to due to the pressure from the bad apples.

jayjay0 is making this claim twice in two days and once again I'd like to see some support for this bold assertion. He objects to people ciriticizing the police who at least give reasons for doing so -- and despite stories like the one in the OP -- but he can't provide any reason why he thinks Thailand has "many good cops". (And I'm the one who pointed out to him last night that even if a cop wanted top be good, he couldn't in the current system.)

How about it jayjay0? maybe you're right but I'd like to hear what your reasosn are...

[Oh, hey, I've got more posts now -- does my opinion count yet?]

By the way, the word used for turbaned, bearded type Indians is abung - or so I am told.

You mean "Sikhs". They've been in Thailand for the last 100 years and are often amongst the most successful and wealthiest of Thai citizens (there are plenty of the who are native born Thai).

++++++++++++++

Can't be bothered to get into the whole "Farang" and "Kaek" thing for the thousandth time in Thailand...

As for the OP: I can't help it -- the story sounds really fishy to me too. Not saying it didn't happen. DEFINITELY not saying such things couldn't happen here (or that they haven't already). It just sounds...off.

Edited January 13, 2011 by SteeleJoe

[ginjag]

Hi, I am an Indian who has been residing in Thailand for about 16 years now and simply love it. Most of my best friends here are Thai. Coming to the issue as to whether Thais are racialistic......well they are basically racialistic to everyone including their own kind ie Isaan versus The Northerners versus the Southerners etc....let along the different ethnic foreigners. They are racialistic towards their own neighbours ie The Burmese, Cambodians, Laos, Vietnamese, etc. It all originates from their own insecurity and ignorance. Once you understand that, simply play it cool and do not take things to hard. Racialism exists everywhere....The US, in Singapore, In UK, everywhere.

I have never had any problems in my 16 years in this country and sometimes it boils down to the individual.....how you conduct and potray yourself.

Having said that, you can also rest assured.....one of the reasons that I love this country is that everything has a price and the locals here.....even if u are black, indian or an old, ugly looking and dirty farang, will lick your private parts without any hesitation, if you pay the right price!

Some of those who claim to be educated and speak English are also the same. Some of those ladies who are married to farangs and pretend to be hi-sos and make also say things like their kind hates blacks and farangs.....are most of the time also discriminated by their own fellow thais who normally label them as .......you know what.

About the issues of hating Indians.....ya .....me myself sometimes hate some of the Indians u see here..........they are such miserly and crude business people....worst than the Thai Chinese......but unlike the Thai Chinese......they keep a low profile......most of the hotels, service apt businesses, diamond trading, colourstone trading, garment manufacturing, land businesses, plastic and chemical businesses are all controlled by Indians here. who never give anything back to society.

Any yes, on the lower end ...u have those pathetic Indian Money Lenders, Peanut Sellers who really need a wash!

Again, Thais cannot differentiate between Indiand and Pakistanis. (The latter known for various criminal activities here in Thailand and often creating a bad name for the Indians who assume they are Indians. According to the Indian Embassy......there are only about less than 5 Indians languishing in the various in Thailand. Now compare that to the number of British Citizens, Taiwanese, Chinese, Malaysian, etc.......

About the Lord Buddha....whether he is Indian or a Nepalese (Thais still hate Nepales and still lump them up as Kek.)why the Thais are praying to a "smelly kek" , i will never know. In fact they also pray to a lot of other "smelly" Indian Gods ie Lord Ganesha, Lord Shiva, Goddess Lakshmi, etc.......Guess it tell a lot about them.

But then again....as I said ealier on.....just relax and chill out......its a great place if you know how to play it....when people are stupid and ignorant......use it to ur advantage and always pretend to be nice to them......there is a thousand and one things to get revenge in a sweet way.And remember, always be financially above them....as money is actually their God here and you can do anything with money here....its fun!

Anyway.....coming back to the main thing.....I do not thing that the crime was perprated towards the OP,just because he was an Indian......I think that those lower life forms would have targetted anyone that they could take advantage of.

What I am curious is to wait and see waht else the OP has done about the legal issues ie police reports etc. And perharps he should also use his capability in the papers to have releases sent to other foreign papers so that people would be more careful about coming to Thailand.

That was one of the best posts I've read in a while. I will learn from it, and a better person for knowing

[surayu]

... so ... what about Thailand makes it "not the badlands of Pakistan or Iraq"?

Nor the US neither the UN will grant you a request for a drone back up....

[swillowbee]

... so ... what about Thailand makes it "not the badlands of Pakistan or Iraq"?

Nor the US neither the UN will grant you a request for a drone back up....

... okay, surayu, the panel of judges will accept that answer.

... would you agree that the similarities might be rooted in their shared cultural values? ... India, Pakistan and Thailand are all largely survivalist tribal cultures ... the majority of their populations laboring to survive only ... forget about building a future for themselves ... in this social environment, there is no guilt, no conscience, no morality, no rule of law, and on, and on, and on ... there is only "get whatever they can, however they can."

... think of Thailand as Sub-Saharan Africa, with a very thin veneer of faux civility and humanity, expressed through a bit of public wealth (some roads, bridges, Mercedes) and a world-wide campaign deceptively showing Thais all happily smiling while serving an economy benefitting only a relatively small number of Thai families sitting atop a modern day feudal system.

... so, is Thailand closer to being a Somalia, or a Sweden? ... and, in which direction is the momentum taking them?

[jantrevor]

So its business as usual in Bangkok. And they could well have been policemen.

[Meloco]

In reference to this 'Kek' which I always hear as 'keg'... According to the people I know it isn't necessarily a derogatory term. But from my experiences in Bangkok and Phuket it isn't said with the best of intentions. So I think that either way there is no straight answer, but it is much like the word 'pharang'. Soo, no need to get hung up on it as much as has been posted here!

Extremely doubting the OP's story, gun point? 17 year old kid and his dad.... I just can't see this as being true, least of all running away with a half broken door. Surely they would have the fear of being shot at instilled in them?! Possibly as someone said earlier 90% fiction 10% fact. In either sense, sending them to your home of residence seems a bit stupid. Won't they seek to come back and rob his home?

[joefromdc]

In reference to this 'Kek' which I always hear as 'keg'...

Hate to point this out, but in the Thai language, the 'g' sound at the end of a word does not exist. If the letter that corresponds to 'g' (gaw gai ก) is at the end of a word, it's is pronounced as a 'k'.

[surayu]

I am fairly convinced that you know what's the answer to all of that already

still personally prefere to stay put and enjoy the place, this is an indicator of how bad the situation is in old good EU, we are slowly loosing every single rights our ancestors have fought so hard to get and it doesn't seem to be a peacefull way out of it, our history is a bit like a sea which keeps bringing back waves of bad stuff on the progress society has achieved, sort of keep repeating itself but with different shades, the disgrace we got in charge of our government seems to be some sort of monster which came out directly from a satirical print out, no exagerations here....

[Buchholz]

41 posts on... terminology ...

keep it going

[Kilgore Trout]

Do you think you speak better thai than my Isaan friends? They are emphatic that is does not apply to Arabs or Africans. And why do you find farang insulting - it means foreigner - and is a useful way of describing expats for me?

Foreigner and "farang" have nothing to do with eachother, a farang can be a Thai citizen, the word is purely a racial term and has absolutely nothing to do with nationality. Any Thai telling you otherwise is duping you, they know the truth but become embarrased when pressed about it and just insist it means foreigner, which it does not.

[Kilgore Trout]

Foreigner and "farang" have nothing to do with eachother, a farang can be a Thai citizen, the word is purely a racial term and has absolutely nothing to do with nationality. Any Thai telling you otherwise is duping you, they know the truth but become embarrased when pressed about it and just insist it means foreigner, which it does not.

[bbradsby]

Did the Nation reporter file a police report (ideally some distance from the crime so that the local station does not try to hush it up)?

I have encountered this Thai racism against Indians before. For the person who made the comment to me, I reminded him that The Lord Buddha was an Indian.

Actually "Gautama is thought to have been born in Lumbini, in modern day Nepal^[13] and raised in the small kingdom or principality of Kapilvastu.^[14] At the time of his birth, the area was at, or beyond, the boundary of Vedic civilization, the dominant culture of northern India at the time." Source Wikipedia.

How dare you cloud a racist discussion with facts?!

[dighambara]

they were real policemen, one in uniform, with badges and guns.

why they didn't stop at the journalist's house to check his passport (foreigners are obliged to carry their pass at all time - or at least a cophy of it) is a little strange, probably they decided, that wallets/ring/mobiles would be an easier prise, than entering the house and leaving empty handed.

Thai Policemen don't wear badges, uniforms are sold anywhere as well as fake ID. Guns are more common here than in the US where they are legal.

Real Policeman often cannot afford real guns so either have toys or 'BB' Guns in the holster - look some time.

The Police Force needs to actually train policemen, supply them with guns and ammunition, in a standard format - same weapon, same ammo with Serial Number assigned to each Policeman and bullets counted.

OH - Sorry, for a minute I forgot, This Is Thailand, where individual policemen shakedown folks every day.

[dighambara]

they were real policemen, one in uniform, with badges and guns.

why they didn't stop at the journalist's house to check his passport (foreigners are obliged to carry their pass at all time - or at least a cophy of it) is a little strange, probably they decided, that wallets/ring/mobiles would be an easier prise, than entering the house and leaving empty handed.

Thai Policemen don't wear badges, uniforms are sold anywhere as well as fake ID. Guns are more common here than in the US where they are legal.

Real Policeman often cannot afford real guns so either have toys or 'BB' Guns in the holster - look some time.

The Police Force needs to actually train policemen, supply them with guns and ammunition, in a standard format - same weapon, same ammo with Serial Number assigned to each Policeman and bullets counted.

OH - Sorry, for a minute I forgot, This Is Thailand, where individual policemen shakedown folks every day.

[hammered]

Had an interesting chat with a bunch of Thai people about this last night. Their observations/reactions:

1. Definitely real police

2. Not surprised

3. Disgusted

4. Should be jailed

5. Nothing will be done about it

[blabla1]

Origins and related words

It is generally believed that the word farang originated with the Indo-Persian word farangi, meaning foreigner. This in turn comes from the word Frank via the Arabic word firinjīyah, which was used refer to the Franks, a West Germanic tribe that became the biggest political power in Western Europe during the early Middle Ages and from which France derives its name. Due to the fact that the Frankish Empire ruled Western Europe for centuries, the word "Frank" became deeply associated, by the Eastern Europeans and Middle Easterners, with Latins who professed the Roman Catholic faith. By another account the word comes through Arabic ("afranj"), and there are quite a few articles about this. One of the most detailed treatments of the subject is by Rashid al-din Fazl Allâh.^[4]

In either case the original word was pronounced firangi in North India or parangiar in Tamil, and entered Khmer as barang and Malay as ferenggi.

Probably seen before, i have no idea...

[Payboy]

Origins and related words

It is generally believed that the word farang originated with the Indo-Persian word farangi, meaning foreigner. This in turn comes from the word Frank via the Arabic word firinjīyah, which was used refer to the Franks, a West Germanic tribe that became the biggest political power in Western Europe during the early Middle Ages and from which France derives its name. Due to the fact that the Frankish Empire ruled Western Europe for centuries, the word "Frank" became deeply associated, by the Eastern Europeans and Middle Easterners, with Latins who professed the Roman Catholic faith. By another account the word comes through Arabic ("afranj"), and there are quite a few articles about this. One of the most detailed treatments of the subject is by Rashid al-din Fazl Allâh.^[4]

In either case the original word was pronounced firangi in North India or parangiar in Tamil, and entered Khmer as barang and Malay as ferenggi.

Probably seen before, i have no idea...

Thanks for that - but a bargirl once told me it was the Thai word for guava.

[elcent]

they were real policemen, one in uniform, with badges and guns.

why they didn't stop at the journalist's house to check his passport (foreigners are obliged to carry their pass at all time - or at least a cophy of it) is a little strange, probably they decided, that wallets/ring/mobiles would be an easier prise, than entering the house and leaving empty handed.

Thai Policemen don't wear badges, uniforms are sold anywhere as well as fake ID. Guns are more common here than in the US where they are legal.

Real Policeman often cannot afford real guns so either have toys or 'BB' Guns in the holster - look some time.

The Police Force needs to actually train policemen, supply them with guns and ammunition, in a standard format - same weapon, same ammo with Serial Number assigned to each Policeman and bullets counted.

OH - Sorry, for a minute I forgot, This Is Thailand, where individual policemen shakedown folks every day.

Police in Thailand get guns from the gov. These are the short revolvers with six shots. If someone wants a better one they must buy it by themselves.

[joefromdc]

Origins and related words

It is generally believed that the word farang originated with the Indo-Persian word farangi, meaning foreigner. This in turn comes from the word Frank via the Arabic word firinjīyah, which was used refer to the Franks, a West Germanic tribe that became the biggest political power in Western Europe during the early Middle Ages and from which France derives its name. Due to the fact that the Frankish Empire ruled Western Europe for centuries, the word "Frank" became deeply associated, by the Eastern Europeans and Middle Easterners, with Latins who professed the Roman Catholic faith. By another account the word comes through Arabic ("afranj"), and there are quite a few articles about this. One of the most detailed treatments of the subject is by Rashid al-din Fazl Allâh.^[4]

In either case the original word was pronounced firangi in North India or parangiar in Tamil, and entered Khmer as barang and Malay as ferenggi.

Probably seen before, i have no idea...

Thanks for that - but a bargirl once told me it was the Thai word for guava.

It does dude. It just has multiple meanings.

[crazydrummerpauly]

Problem is you have no one you can go to for help, fake Police took my gfs ID card, so we called the real Police,the real Police came and said she could go report this at Wat Phrasing Police station, one hour later,i get the call to bring 30,000baht to get her released,, so much for going willingly to a Police station and asking for help,yes they had the id card!!!

Hi Blabla - reading through the mountain of responses in this thread -( i note that this story and the 'woman beaten unconscious on the beach' stories have both attracted huge number of responses )... your short post stood out as (another) deeply worrying account of what amounts to unashamed harrassment of innocent civilians by the very people paid to 'look after us', the shameful boys-in-brown. Would you fill out a couple of areas of the story ? - 1) In what kind of situation did fake police take your Gf's ID-card ?; and above all, what REASON were you given for 30,000 Baht being demanded for her release ??? What on earth had she done wrong ???!!! Or rather, what was the b---shit reason given for stealing 30,000 Bt from you ? I think it is very important that stories such as yours are fleshed out for the enlightenment of all members.

[MJP]

Kek . . . Ke . . . K . . . King Prawn Bhuna please and a special fried rice, Sagaloo, Keema Nan and don't be shy with the popadoms.

Oh, God I miss Britain.

[blabla1]

Problem is you have no one you can go to for help, fake Police took my gfs ID card, so we called the real Police,the real Police came and said she could go report this at Wat Phrasing Police station, one hour later,i get the call to bring 30,000baht to get her released,, so much for going willingly to a Police station and asking for help,yes they had the id card!!!

Hi Blabla - reading through the mountain of responses in this thread -( i note that this story and the 'woman beaten unconscious on the beach' stories have both attracted huge number of responses )... your short post stood out as (another) deeply worrying account of what amounts to unashamed harrassment of innocent civilians by the very people paid to 'look after us', the shameful boys-in-brown. Would you fill out a couple of areas of the story ? - 1) In what kind of situation did fake police take your Gf's ID-card ?; and above all, what REASON were you given for 30,000 Baht being demanded for her release ??? What on earth had she done wrong ???!!! Or rather, what was the b---shit reason given for stealing 30,000 Bt from you ? I think it is very important that stories such as yours are fleshed out for the enlightenment of all members.

It's on the thread ,music maffia raid Hang Dong restaurant. by Davidoxen

[crazydrummerpauly]

Problem is you have no one you can go to for help, fake Police took my gfs ID card, so we called the real Police,the real Police came and said she could go report this at Wat Phrasing Police station, one hour later,i get the call to bring 30,000baht to get her released,, so much for going willingly to a Police station and asking for help,yes they had the id card!!!

Hi Blabla - reading through the mountain of responses in this thread -( i note that this story and the 'woman beaten unconscious on the beach' stories have both attracted huge number of responses )... your short post stood out as (another) deeply worrying account of what amounts to unashamed harrassment of innocent civilians by the very people paid to 'look after us', the shameful boys-in-brown. Would you fill out a couple of areas of the story ? - 1) In what kind of situation did fake police take your Gf's ID-card ?; and above all, what REASON were you given for 30,000 Baht being demanded for her release ??? What on earth had she done wrong ???!!! Or rather, what was the b---shit reason given for stealing 30,000 Bt from you ? I think it is very important that stories such as yours are fleshed out for the enlightenment of all members.

It's on the thread ,music maffia raid Hang Dong restaurant. by Davidoxen

It's not.

[bunuel]

Why indeed??

Seems like a long way to go to dump some bodies when there are so many places to stop along the way.

"You'll be taken to Pattaya and shot."

Gee, I wonder why Pattaya?