Can My Wife Employ Me?

[frankpelagic]

I have lived in Thailand for about 5 years, can speak basic Thai and have seen many business's come and go. I have seen all the good and bad it has to offer. I want to set my Thai wife up in a shop, selling items sourced in Australia. The business relies entirely on me, as a. I will provide the $$, and b. because I have a source of stock and the knowledge to provide a very saleable product that she cannot do. Without me, the business would collpase overnight. I am not concerned about the profitability or concept in this thread, but can anyone tell me if it is essentially legal for me to do this. I would not work in the shop, but would only advise her on how to run the business, and source/ship the product from Australia. Alternatively, does anyone know if it is legal for her to operate the business, and employ me in an advisory capacity? I am currently on an )-A retirement visa, but will change it for a Spouse visa when next due.

Thanks

[thailandbluegrass]

Why do you want her to employ you? You obviously do not need the Work Permit so Just curious why? If you open a business with her holding 50% shares, You holding 49% shares and the lawyer holding 1% I don't get what your asking for?

[Soutpeel]

Yes its legal for her to run a business and employ you in advisory capacity, provided you have a work permit, you cannot get a WP on a retirement visa, would need to be an "O" based on marriage or a "B".

[phaethon]

Why do you want her to employ you? You obviously do not need the Work Permit so Just curious why? If you open a business with her holding 50% shares, You holding 49% shares and the lawyer holding 1% I don't get what your asking for?

Might it be to eliminate the need to show money in the bank?

[Soutpeel]

Why do you want her to employ you? You obviously do not need the Work Permit so Just curious why? If you open a business with her holding 50% shares, You holding 49% shares and the lawyer holding 1% I don't get what your asking for?

Might it be to eliminate the need to show money in the bank?

I dont see how....being in the business the OP is taking about, ie imported stuff etc, surely set up costs will be more than THB 400K he would have to show.

[thailandbluegrass]

Yes its legal for her to run a business and employ you in advisory capacity, provided you have a work permit, you cannot get a WP on a retirement visa, would need to be an "O" based on marriage or a "B".

I have experience with legitimate businesses here and I must say that in your case now you say your on a retirement visa and this poster is correct, you cannot get a work permit or gain employment legaly here. If you are caught working or some jelous person takes pictures of you working in the shop you and your wife could lose everything you have into that business.

I would still like to know why the OP wants to be legally "employed" and not just 49% owner which allows him to do everything needed and when he switches his Retirement visa to a marriage visa then he can easily get a work permit for being the "Owner" of the business just like my work permit said in Thai of course.

[keestha]

can easily get a work permit for being the "Owner" of the business just like my work permit said in Thai of course.

"Owner" is not a job description. My work permit states I am the general manager of the company I established. Another job description is also possible of course - like cook for instance.

[thailandbluegrass]

can easily get a work permit for being the "Owner" of the business just like my work permit said in Thai of course.

"Owner" is not a job description. My work permit states I am the general manager of the company I established. Another job description is also possible of course - like cook for instance.

It is not meant to be a "JOB" description. It is meant to be "Status" for issuing a work permit.

If you can read Thai then maybe you should argue with the Chonburi Office that issued my WP. It says "เจ้าของบริษัท" and this transliterates into " Company owner".

By the way, what does this have to do with the OP? Company owner

[monty]

"advising" your wife on running the business is probably bordering on working, as you would be running the business "behind the scenes" and using your wife as a front.

The likelyhood of being caught out will depend on other people informing the authorities. The repercussions of being caught can be serious, including ending up being blacklisted!

To answer your questions, your wife (as a sole proprieter) can employ you if she fullfils some requirements. Those are:

* If she is earning an income form business operation in the past year cycle or the amount year: one person (foreigner)may be permitted for every Baht seven hundred thousand, the maximum being three persons;

or

* If she has paid taxes to the government in the past year cycle: one person (foreigner)may be permitted for every Baht fifty thousand, the maximum being three person;

or

* If she is having Thai employees: one person (foreigner) may be permitted for every four Thai employees, the maximum being three persons.

If you are legally married, the above requirements are halved (i.e. 25,000 Baht taxes paid in the previous year, or 2 employees).

As you are talking about a new business she will not have paid taxes or can show revenue for the last year, so the only option open would be the employees. As you state you are married, she would need to pay social security contributions for 2 employees for the 3 last months. She can back pay for the last months so you can get that straight away. The receipts for that show the labor department that she has the reqired employees.

Labor department will not issue a WP if you hold an extension based on retirement, but will do so if based on marriage.

If you hold a WP, you can declare 40,000 Baht income on that, pay taxes and use that to get an extension (marriage) based on 40,000 Baht or over income/month, as opposed to 400,000 in the bank!

[thailandbluegrass]

<BR>"advising" your wife on running the business is probably bordering on working, as you would be running the business "behind the scenes" and using your wife as a front.<BR>The likelyhood of being caught out will depend on other people informing the authorities. The repercussions of being caught can be serious, including ending up being blacklisted!<BR><BR>To answer your questions, your wife (as a sole proprieter) can employ you if she fullfils some requirements. Those are:<BR><B>* If she is earning an income form business operation in the past year cycle or the amount year: one person (foreigner)may be permitted for every Baht seven hundred thousand, the maximum being three persons;<BR>or<BR>* If she has paid taxes to the government in the past year cycle: one person (foreigner)may be permitted for every Baht fifty thousand, the maximum being three person;<BR>or<BR>* If she is having Thai employees: one person (foreigner) may be permitted for every four Thai employees, the maximum being three persons.</B><BR><BR>If you are legally married, the above requirements are halved (i.e. 25,000 Baht taxes paid in the previous year, or 2 employees).<BR><BR>As you are talking about a new business she will not have paid taxes or can show revenue for the last year, so the only option open would be the employees. As you state you are married, she would need to pay social security contributions for 2 employees for the 3 last months. She can back pay for the last months so you can get that straight away. The receipts for that show the labor department that she has the reqired employees.<BR><BR>Labor department will not issue a WP if you hold an extension based on retirement, but will do so if based on marriage.<BR><BR>If you hold a WP, you can declare 40,000 Baht income on that, pay taxes and use that to get an extension (marriage) based on 40,000 Baht or over income/month, as opposed to 400,000 in the bank!<BR>

<BR><BR>Why would you post such a complex post? I already told him the best and easiest way of doing it. Very Very easy;<BR><BR>

<OL>

<LI>Open the business and you will be 49% share holder</LI>

<LI>Apply for the Non-"B" visa and get it</LI>

<LI>Get your work permit</LI></OL>

<P>All so easy and the WP only cost me 750 THB<BR><BR><BR></P>

[TravelerEastWest]

Thailand BlueGrass,

Are you saying that you can get a work permit as a "company owner" which will allow you to actively work?

And are you saying as a company owner you do not need Thai employees etc?

Where you required to have a VAT license?

Monty,

Are you saying that as a sole proprietor a Thai spouse can hire a husband and get a work permit if one of the conditions that you mention is met?

Is a VAT license required?

Do you know of anyone who has been able to get a workpermit from a sole proprietorship in the last year? (Bangkok area if that matters) I ask because I was told that it used to be possible but not anymore.

[Soutpeel]

Thailand BlueGrass,

Are you saying that you can get a work permit as a "company owner" which will allow you to actively work?

And are you saying as a company owner you do not need Thai employees etc?

Where you required to have a VAT license?

Monty,

Are you saying that as a sole proprietor a Thai spouse can hire a husband and get a work permit if one of the conditions that you mention is met?

Is a VAT license required?

Do you know of anyone who has been able to get a workpermit from a sole proprietorship in the last year? (Bangkok area if that matters) I ask because I was told that it used to be possible but not anymore.

Be careful what you are believing here

Very apparant Thai Blue Grass, has absolutely no clue about the setting up a business in Thailand, give away is..."all so easy and WP only cost THB 750" ...a work permit does not cost THB 750...it cost a lot more and setting up a business in Thailand is "not so easy" by any stretch of the imagination

I would suggest reading some of the other posts by the above mentioned on TV and draw you own conclusions....

A company owner is not automatically entitled to a WP, someone can be a company owner and not need a WP, but the minute they sign a document relating to the company business in Thailand they need a WP, and certainly would not be a job description on a WP...however "Managing Director" could be

All WP issued have a requirement of Thai employees of varying numbers

As regards work permit for a sole proprietorship, understand it is still possible but a lot more difficult than under a Ltd Company, as to how have been issued in the last year, cant answer that one for you.

As regards specific details "Monty's" post is very good.

[monty]

Thailandbluegrass. Please refrain from giving incorrect info.

The process of forming a Co.,Ltd., although straightforward, is not exactly easy nor cheap and usually requires the services of a proffesional bussiness adviser.

There is minimum capitalization required (2 million per foreigner employed, with a part of that in cash in he company's bank account), and there needs to be a minimum amount of Thai employees employed.

A Thai Co.,Ltd. needs to comply with rather strict tax regulations. It needs audited book keeping and hence needs the services of a certified accountant.

A sole proprietership on the other hand costs exactly zilch to establish, a Thai natural person just declares revenue, the tax department deducts a fixed amount (80% in the case of the OP's planned business) and the Thai person just pays personal income tax on the remaining 20%.

No accounting required at all, no expense bills etc...

As to TavelerEastWest, I am not sure on the VAT requirement regarding a WP, one thing sure is that if one wishes to apply for a WP being employed by a natural Thai person, it will likey be best to get assistance form an experienced person, as it likely is not done often, and Tha governemental officers are often reluctant to do things slightly out of the ordenary, even if totally legal!

For clarification, below I'll quote the relevant legal articles concerning WP's for foreigners with the requirements for the employers.

Specifically article nr.6, which details being employed by a natural person, put in bold by me:

Royal Emblem

Department of Employment Regulations

Governing the Criteria of Considering Permitting the Work of Foreigners A.D. 2004

In order for the consideration of permitting the work of foreigners under Section 7and Section 8 of the Work of Foreigners Act A.D. 1978 to be exactly circumspect according to the spirit of the law, it is expedient to prescribe the criterion of considering permitting the work of foreigners.

By virtue of Section 32 of the State Affairs administration Regulations Act A.D. 1991 as amended by the State Affairs Administration Regulations Act (No. 5) A. D. 2001, the Director-General of Employment lays down regulations as follows:

Article 1. The regulations are called “The Department of Employment Regulations Governing the criteria of considering Permitting the Work of foreigners A.D. 2004”.

Article 2. These regulations shall apply form the 8th day of October A.D. 2004 onward.

Article 3. The following shall be rescinded:

(1) The Department of employment Regulations Governing the Criteria and the Conditions of Considering Permitting the Work of Foreigners A.D. 2002 dated May 22, 2002,

(2) The Department of Employment Regulations governing the Criteria and the Conditions of considering Permitting the Work of Foreigners (No.2) A.D. 2002 dated July 11, 2002,

(3) The Department of Employment Regulations Governing the Criteria and the Conditions of Considering Permitting the Work of Foreigners (No.3) A.D. 2003 dated February 5, 2003.

Clause 4. For the issuance of the work permit to the foreigners under Section 7 and Section 8, permission shall be considered as may be necessary and appropriate by taking account of:

(1) Security within the kingdom in the political, religious, economic and social aspects,

(2) Protection against foreigners coming to compete for the occupations that Thai nationals have the ability to do and keeping them sufficient in quantify for the demand of the labor market within the kingdom;

(3) The benefit from permitting the foreigners to work in that job position of bringing about the introduction of foreign currency to invest or spend in the country in large amounts, bringing about the employment of a large number of Thai nationals for the position being one requiring skill in modern technology useful to the economic development of the country and with such skill being transferred to Thai nationals.

(4) Skill development that Thai nationals will receive from the transfer by the foreigners who is permitted to work of knowledge and understanding of techniques and details about machines and tools and skill in modern technology to Thai nationals in that work;

(5) The principle of humanity.

Article 5. From the consideration of issuing the work permit under Article 4, permission may be granted according to the following criteria:

(1) For foreigners entering to work in financial institutions under the supervision of the Bank of Thailand or the Ministry of Finance or the government agency which supervises financial institutions, permission shall be granted according to the number prescribed in the certificate having a certificate from Bank of Thailand or the Ministry of Finance or the government agency writ supervise finance in situations.

(2) Foreigners under a certificate issued by the central government, the provincial government, the local government, the state enterprise or the public organization under the public organization law which specifies the name, the position and the work period of that alien.

(3) Foreigners working for an employer whose investment size from the paid up registered capital is not lower than Baht two million, the rate being one alien permitted for every Baht two million, or an employer registered as a juristic person abroad and entering to do business in Thailand whose investment size from the money introduced from abroad is not lower than Baht three million, the rate being one alien permitted for every Baht three million, or a place of business registered as a juristic person abroad and entering to do business in Thailand prior to October 30, 2002 that has no evidence of introducing money from abroad: consideration shall be done from the size of investment from the amount of the balance appearing in 6 retrospective months’ bank statement, an amount of Baht three million or more, the rate being one foreigners permitted for every Baht three million, unless the alien has a Thai spouse in a lawfully registered marriage and in open cohabitation, in which case such investment size as prescribed shall be reduced by one half, in which a maximum of ten foreigners may be permitted, save considering permitting as may be appropriate in any of the following cases:

(a) Working for an employer who has paid tax to the government in the past year cycle not less than Baht three million;

(B Working for an employer doing a business of exporting goods and introducing foreign currency into the country not less than Baht three million in the past year;

(-C) Working for an employer doing a tour business with not fewer than five thousand introductions of foreigners to visit Thailand in the past year cycle;

(d) Working for an employer who employs not fewer than one hundred Thai nationals;

(4) Foreigners working for an employer whose investment size from the paid up registered capital is not lower than Baht two million or an employer registered as a juristic person abroad and entering to do business in Thailand, whose investment size from the money introduced from abroad is not lower than Baht three million: in any of the following case the limitation regarding the number of foreigners under Article 5 (3) shall not apply:

(a) Foreigners doing a Technology work which Thai nationals are still unable to do or in which Thai nationals are available in number not sufficient for the demand of the domestic labor market, which technology shall be transferred to at least two Thai national within the prescribed period;

(B Foreigners working by applying specialized skill for a work to be accomplished under a definite project;

(-C) Foreigners working in an entertainment, amusement or musical business, the character of whose employment are occasional and definite;

(5) Foreigners working in a foundation, association or any other organization whose objectives are non-profit making and in the interests of the society as a whole: the criterion in Article 5 (3) shall not apply;

(6) Foreigners coming to be attached to the representative office of a foreign justice person in an international trade business, who comes to give advice in various aspects about the goods of the head office distributed to an agent or user, the dissemination of various sorts of information about the goods or services of the head office and the reporting of business movements in Thailand to the attention of the head office: a maximum of two person may be permitted; the alien coming in to look for goods or service purchase sources in Thailand for the head office, check and control the quality and the quantify of the goods that the head office buys or employees to produce in Thailand: a maximum of two persons may be permitted, unless that representative office can find goods or service purchase sources for the head office and the head office has ordered goods or services from producers in Thailand in a value of goods or service ordering in the past year not less than Baht one hundred million;

(7) Foreigners coming in to be attached to the regional office of a juristic person organized under the law of a foreign country and going to do business in another country in order to render services in various aspects, e.g. liaison and supervision of the operation of a subsidiary or affiliated company located in the same region as the head office, counseling or rendering the services of organizing transiting and personnel development, financial management, market control and sales promotion planning, product development, and research and development by coming an income from rendering those services and having no power to receive purchase orders or sale offers or negotiate business-doing with persons or juristic persons in the country of location, by receiving expenses from the head office only: a maximum of five persons may be permitted, unless than regional office has introduced money to spend in Thailand in the past year cycle not less than ten million baht.

Article 6. Regarding considering issuing the work permit under Article 4 to foreigners who apply for permission to work for a natural person employer who is not one having the character under Article 5, permission may be granted according to the following criteria:

(1) Foreigners working for an employer earning an income form business operation in the past year cycle or the amount year: one person may be permitted for every Baht seven hundred thousand, the maximum being three person;

(2) Foreigners working for an employer who has paid taxes to the government in the past year cycle: one person may be permitted for every Baht fifty thousand, the maximum being three person;

(3) Foreigners working for an employer having Thai employees: one person may be permitted for every four Thai employees, the maximum being three persons.

Article 7. The criterion under paragraph one shall be reduced by one half in the case where the permit applicant alien has a Thai spouse in a lawfully registered marriage and in open cohabitation.

Article 8. Considering permitting otherwise than the cases or criteria herein prescribed shall be the power of the Director-General.

Article 9. Applications that the authorities have receive prior to the effective date hereof shall be treated according to the Department of Employment Regulations Governing the Criteria and the Conditions of Considering Permitting the Work of Foreigners A.D. 2002 dated May 22, 2002, the Department of Employment Regulations Governing the Criteria and the Conditions of Considering Permitting the Work of Foreigners (No. 2) A.D. 2002 dated July 11, 2002, and the Department of Employment Regulations Governing the Criteria and the Conditions of Considering Permitting the Work of Foreigners (No. 3) A.D. 2003 dated February 5, 2003.

Article 10. The Director-General of Employment shall be the person in charge of the functions hereunder.

Given this 30th day of September A.D. 2004

-Signed-

(Mr. Chuthathawat Intharasuksi)

Director-General of Employment Department

[/b]

[TravelerEastWest]

Soutpeel & Monty,

Good posts - thank you.

I have my workpermit the old-fashioned way - a company - proper bookkeeping audits - taxes paid and so on... but ThailandBluegrass's post interested me.

As we all know different Thai government offices do things differently so who knows maybe where he lives the paperwork is easier?

My wife has a sole proprietorship and it is so easy in terms of required bookkeeping as in almost none at least for expenses. In America it would never be so easy.

I have not heard about recent wps via sole proprietorships and the service companies are not interested in trying which makes me think that while legal it would be a lot more paperwork hence the lack of interest by most service companies.

Probably a large accounting or law firm could do it but the fees would be high.

I wonder if article 6 is cut in have with a Thai spouse?

Edited January 19, 2011 by TravelerEastWest

[Soutpeel]

... but ThailandBluegrass's post interested me.

As we all know different Thai government offices do things differently so who knows maybe where he lives the paperwork is easier?

Or alternatively, he is just talking a load of twaddle..I would urge you to go an read some of his other posts and you will see why I am suggesting its a load of twaddle...

[DTiger]

... but ThailandBluegrass's post interested me.

As we all know different Thai government offices do things differently so who knows maybe where he lives the paperwork is easier?

Or alternatively, he is just talking a load of twaddle..I would urge you to go an read some of his other posts and you will see why I am suggesting its a load of twaddle...

It could also be simply because I may guess it was around CM.... Bangkok is known to have to more "new" and restrictive rules: Last one I heard was that I was trying to escape thai taxes.

I am pretty sure that around the country some have the benefit to officially (I mean with WP) work for their wife. Where are you guys? And did you do that?

[DTiger]

Where are you guys? And did you do that?

Funny No one?

[maxtingtong]

It's years already that I hear whispers of this option (them told me.. the friend of my friend did it.. there's even a farang working at petrol station in krabi.. etc etc)

but actually NEVER met or read of someone's direct experience on the matter. Ok, this is not attractive for the institutions nor to the big laws firms, but, is possible have some feedback from anyone that actually did it?

(I'm talking about being employed by the thai wife's sole propietorship)

Many thanks for any input

[maxtingtong]

At least anyone knows if the 2004 criterias to obtain the WP posted by user Monty are still in force?

Many thanks

[RubbaJohnny]

The Thai Government?

[maxtingtong]

Ok so now I finally know that's possible, one good friend of mine did it this year with a restaurant. First year just the wife worked with the employers, this year he get the wp on the wife's sole propietorship. It's not so complicate, is just not an attractive business to gov/law firms that can't steal much money from your pockets. Anyway not sure if is possible anywhere in the country or depends from the district/province.

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