Offense To Pose As A Doctor In Thailand? How To Verify?

[TheGhostWithin]

Hi all,

Just wondering if there is any way to verify if someone is actually a doctor (foreign national). The person I have in mind is seemingly nice, but want to do some background checks on him before associating with him. Good to know who you are friends with these days. This person resides in Thailand and is a nice American chap. Have googled him, but apart from the term Dr. being put before his name, can find no record of him ever praticing either locally or abroad. A bit of a concern.

Also, can you confirm if it is infact illegal (as it is here) to pose as a doctor, if you do not have a practicing certificate?

Not looking to make problems, but trying to understand someone a little better and confirm some claims they have made on their background. Would prefer some knowledge from people in the know, as it is quite hairy having to dig up someones trash and can cause issues without the right information being given at this point in time.

Thanks for your help.

[lopburi3]

As you are posting in the medical section the Dr is of a medical nature rather than a Dr of law or something else? AFAIK there are very few non Thai medical doctors allowed to practice here (as all testing must be done in Thai I believe). I do not know the procedure to find those listed (Thai or foreign) but suspect any Thai doctor could provide details on how to check (without any indication of who/why). Obviously it is not legal to practice as a doctor if you are not (and this is often a charge reported in the press).

[Sheryl]

As Lopburi3 said, it would be illegal for him to practice medicine here if he is not in fact not only a medical doctor, but licensed to practice as such in Thailand, which very, very few foreign doctors are (and you can be sure their credentials will have been checked, it is a formidable process to get licensure here).

But if what you mean is just that the person says they are a medical doctor, but they are not practising medicine in Thailand, that is not illegal...and in my experience, not unusual. Often it is someone with some sort of health care background but exaggerating their level of qualification. Happens a lot on this board

If American, licensure can be verified online but you need to know the State in which he is licensed. Can then go online to the State Medical board and see if he is licensed.

If you don't know the state, then you'll have to try this 50 times......

And be sure that you know the entire full name.

But is it really worth all this? If he is the type of person to lie or exaggerate about himself that fact will emerge with time even without checking into his professional qualifications....

[phaethon]

I don't see that the OP is being treated by this 'doctor' or that he is practicing in Thailand, just that he has claimed to be a medic and the OP wants to confirm.

The first stop is with the American Medical Association Doctor Finder which claims to provide "you with basic professional information on virtually every licensed physician in the United States" (note the virtually, but I located a research colleague who is not an AMA member). You'll need as much information as you can get about where he practices (practiced) in the US and his speciality (USE: specialty).

Most states also have their own online registry if he doesn't show up on the AMA.

If you know his specialty [sic.] you can try https://www.abms.org/WC/login.aspx (registration/login required)

Finally, ask him if he went to medical school with Hugh Laurie...

It is ALWAYS worth checking the credentials of someone who claims to be a 'doctor' because almost all of them are fakes: Most are just medics and do not have a PhD at a all.

Edited January 17, 2011 by phaethon

[a99az]

Do you run police checks on all your nice friends?

[TheGhostWithin]

Thanks for the informative posts guys, have been very helpful.

The person is not practicing medicine, or claiming to practice. He simply signs everything with "Dr" before his name, and talks about how he is now retired in Thailand (which he is), and is substantially better off than many other farangs because of his background. He is one of those people you get a bad feeling about when you are around him, and I have seen him do a few questionable things I wouldnt expect a doctor to do, nor any other respectable person. Do have a business card with the title "Dr XXX XXX" on it, though it is basically just listing various organisations he claims to be involved with (anyone heard of the Royal Diamond club btw? The only thing I turn up, is a frequent users spa club in Bangkok).

Really, this is a bit of advanced work should I need the information later, as he is mixed in with a few good friends in the kingdom (Thais) who think that every white man is good and honest - these are not run of the mill bar girls, but proper nice people working in decent jobs. Theyve looked out for me many times in the past in similar ways, so feel abliged before they eventually get screwed by one of these sorts.

Will do some further talking with him, as he claimed he worked in sports medicine, with a few prominant american sporting organisations. Doesnt seem to be anything coming up for him on the doctor finder mentioned above though.Sorry for the lack of info.. dont want to defame someone if they really are a doctor

Edited January 17, 2011 by TheGhostWithin

[phaethon]

I don't see how it is possible to defame someone who really is a medic... but good luck trying

Edited January 17, 2011 by phaethon

[Orac]

(anyone heard of the Royal Diamond club btw? The only thing I turn up, is a frequent users spa club in Bangkok).

Did he mention anything about selling vacuum cleaners???

http://www.lux.co.th/th/news/rdc09.html

[doggie888888]

Do you run police checks on all your nice friends?

One is tempted to answer "yes", if such nice friends are long term residents of Pattaya

[phaethon]

Do you run police checks on all your nice friends?

One is tempted to answer "yes", if such nice friends are long term residents of Pattaya

An SAS alumni database would be useful...

BTW: What IS the colour of the boathouse at Here-ford?

[jdinasia]

---- note "Dr," in front of a name means absolutely nothing (if he's an American) and with no M.D. behind the name would suggest that he is not an M.D. (Apparently the same is true in the U.K. - according to wiki)

A PhD in underwater basket-weaving entitles the user to use "Dr." in front of his name.

[tim armstrong]

Hi Ghost,

As Sheryl and others have said there are quite a few 'Dr.posers' around. Unfortunately in many Asian countries, particularly in rural areas, if you are farlang, have a health background and a Degree, you will sometimes be called 'doctor'- even if you tell them you are not one.. Its often because foreigners often have a much broader knowledge base on health issues, whichever health profession they belong too.

But interestingly, the Thai government accredits a small number of Thai doctors each year who have trained in Thai traditional medicine. They can call themselves Dr.I don't think they wouldn't be able to do this in western countries. But to your man, sounds a bit dodgy to me.

[simon43]

I have several Thai friends who trust my medical opinion more than their own doctors - even though I have minimal medical experience and have never claimed to be a doctor

Doc Simon

[harrry]

I have several Thai friends who trust my medical opinion more than their own doctors - even though I have minimal medical experience and have never claimed to be a doctor

Doc Simon

Simon..some men in a white coats will be coming to get you. THere is someone who wants to speak with you.

[TheGhostWithin]

Hi all,

Point has been taken with regards to the fact that anyone of a reasonably high qualification, as well as in some cases just being farang, you can be percieved as knowing more about medicine. Perhaps this person is playing on that a bit, as he often introduces himself by saying "Hi, Im Dr. X", even in public. I get the feeling he does it for a little bit of attention, and to command a bit more respect than he would otherwise have (as I said, Ive seen him do a few things which would be arrestable offenses here). In New Zealand, to put Dr. before your name, regardless of the circumstance is actually a criminal offense unless you are a medical doctor or have a PhD, in which case you would need to also note what you are a doctor of, as I understand it.

I guess, for now, until Thailand advances their laws by a thousand years, all I can do is try to keep my friends safe. They are adults, but naieve on such issues, as they genuinely believe he is a doctor, whereas I do not. I shall follow up by finding out what exactly his area of speciality was back in the US of A next time we speak somewhere in the village.

Thanks for your help and advice everyone.

[nephron]

I am fairly certain you don't need to tell people what subject you have a PhD in in NZ- that's where my father's PhD is from, and while he is all too pleased to tell you about it, the subject was never on his business cards (while his title was always Dr).

Edited January 19, 2011 by nephron

[phaethon]

My standard reply, usually in a hospital or other clinical environment, to someone who asked me "Are you a doctor? " was always "No, I work for a living..."

[jdinasia]

I am fairly certain you don't need to tell people what subject you have a PhD in in NZ- that's where my father's PhD is from, and while he is all too pleased to tell you about it, the subject was never on his business cards (while his title was always Dr).

Concur. Though my father (from the USA) never used a title at the beginning of his name on business cards (he thinks that within 3 years after getting a PhD that you should quit being so impressed with yourself that you introduce yourself as Dr.

New Zealand does not require you to list PhD or M.D etc on your card ....

The NZMC (New Zealand Medical Council) has made a public statement about the use of "Dr." as a title in the yellow pages when referring to chiropractors, acupuncturists, osteopaths etc. The complaint was specific though --- to listings in the yellow pages.

Use of title 'Dr'—view of the Medical Council of New ZealandIn the 25 July 2008 issue of the New Zealand Medical Journal there was a very interesting article by Dr Andrew Gilbey entitled Use of inappropriate titles of New Zealand practitioners of acupuncture, chiropractic and osteopathy (http://www.nzma.org....l/121-1278/3160). This has been an issue of concern to the Medical Council of New Zealand, and over the past few years we have written to a number of non-medical practitioners who have used the title 'Dr' inappropriately.We are careful when we do this, however, because it can be a grey area. Many non-medical people are fully entitled to use the title if they hold a university doctorate. Our concern is not so much about when people use the title 'Dr', it is when they do so in a manner which has the potential to mislead patients into believing that the person is a medical practitioner.In his article Dr Gilbey suggests that the Council should make the New Zealand Yellow Pages aware that their current practice of allowing non- doctors to use the title 'Dr' is legally dubious.The Council has been engaged with the publishers of our phone books on this issue for some years. Historically we had an agreement with Telecom regarding the Registered Medical Practitioners section at the front of the White Pages. Under this agreement, we provided Telecom with a list of registered medical practitioners so they could check that any person listed in this section was registered with the Council. Unfortunately, Telecom withdrew from this agreement without consultation or prior notice in 2007.Subsequently the White and Yellow Pages were sold to the Yellow Pages Group. We wrote to the Yellow Pages Group in July 2007 outlining our concern that the practice of checking against the register appeared to have ceased. We specifically drew their attention to section 7 of the Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Act 2003. Furthermore, we suggested that the listing of an unregistered doctor in the Registered Medical Practitioners section of the White Pages could be considered a breach of the Act.The Yellow Pages Group failed to respond to this letter and the practice of listing 'Drs' without reference to the register continued. Two further letters were sent to the Yellow Pages Group, the last letter containing a list of people who we discovered were listed in the 'Registered Medical Practitioners' page but who were not registered doctors.In response to our final letter, the Yellow Pages Group advised that it would remove the word "Registered" from the heading of the section at the front of the White Pages and the words "All doctors listed in this section must be on the New Zealand Medical Register". However, they also stated that they are "...unable to check the veracity of every listing and advertisement in our directories. Instead we accept advertising in good faith and we rely on our advertisers' assurances that their advertising complies with all laws (including the Health Practitioner Competence Assurance Act 2003)."We agree with Dr Gilbey that the practice of allowing non-doctors to advertise using the title 'Dr' is legally dubious and we have already alerted the Yellow Pages Group to this issue.However, Council is not empowered to prosecute breaches of this section under the Health Practitioner Competence Assurance Act 2003. This power is provided to the Ministry of Health. Accordingly, we have forwarded a copy of Dr Gilbey's article, this letter and our previous correspondence with the Yellow Pages Group to the Ministry for their consideration.Simon Robb

Registrar

Medical Council of New Zealand

Wellington

http://www.nzma.org..../121-1279/3206/

In Thailand it is illegal to practice medicine or dispense medical advice without being a licensed physician in Thailand ---- yet you can walk into any pharmacy here --- tell them your symptoms and have the pharmacist give you what they think is appropriate.

Edited January 21, 2011 by jdinasia