Reds To Get Robert Amsterdam To File Case Against Thai Govt

[webfact]

Reds to get Amsterdam to file case against Thai govt

By THE NATION

The red shirts will have lawyer Robert Amsterdam help them take their case against the Thai government to the International Criminal Court, their leader said yesterday.

Thida Thawornseth, acting chairwoman of the movement, told a press conference that the red-shirt leaders had decided to "intensify our fight and take it to the world court level".

She said the red shirts were "seeking justice" for the protesters killed in the April-May government crackdown by appointing Amsterdam to bring their case to the court, which prosecutes individuals for crimes against humanity and similar issues.

On January 31, a press conference will be held through an overseas video-link to announce the decision, Thida said.

Amsterdam, a Canadian lawyer and founding partner of Amsterdam & Peroff, the law firm that has offices in Toronto, Washington and London, has been hired by former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, who is a major supporter of the red-shirt movement.

Thida said the red-shirt leaders would cooperate with relatives of Hiroyuki Muramoto, a Japanese cameraman for Reuters who was killed on April 10, to sue the Thai government and seek criminal penalties and civil damages.

She said she had also learned that relatives of Italian photographer Fabio Polenghi, another foreign journalist killed during the crackdown, was suing the government through a court in Italy seeking both criminal and civil punishment.

-- The Nation 2011-01-20

[Buchholz]

Thida Thawornseth, acting chairwoman of the movement, told a press conference that the red-shirt leaders had decided to "intensify our fight and take it to the world court level".

She said the red shirts were "seeking justice" for the protesters killed in the April-May government crackdown by appointing Amsterdam to bring their case to the court, which prosecutes individuals for crimes against humanity and similar issues.

Amsterdam has been hired by former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, who is a major supporter of the red-shirt movement.

What happened to Thida's proclamation that the Reds weren't about Thaksin?

As well as Thaksin's proclamation that he doesn't know the Reds?

[Ricardo]

Thida Thawornseth, acting chairwoman of the movement, told a press conference that the red-shirt leaders had decided to "intensify our fight and take it to the world court level".

She said the red shirts were "seeking justice" for the protesters killed in the April-May government crackdown by appointing Amsterdam to bring their case to the court, which prosecutes individuals for crimes against humanity and similar issues.

Amsterdam has been hired by former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, who is a major supporter of the red-shirt movement.

Perhaps a co-defendant in his case might be those people, who made inflamatory speeches from their temporary-stage and led the remaining 'peaceful protesters', as they threw grenades & rolled burning-tyres at their fellow-citizens, i.e. the UDD-leaders themselves ?

Or does their funding not run to that ?

Certainly Khun Thida, in appointing DL's own lawyer, seems to be moving back towards the man who "doesn't know them" and whom she recently claimed to have moved beyond. Pity, as I'd hoped she might have a little more integrity, than that.

[iono]

This is a great idea, bring it to the courts, then the Reds will be exposed for the movement that they really are, puppets worked into a frenzy by their aloof master from a far.

[animatic]

This is a great idea, bring it to the courts, then the Reds will be exposed for the movement that they really are, puppets worked into a frenzy by their aloof master from a far.

The Red Leaders actions can't stand the bright light of international scrutiny.

This is hot air and threats. Typical Team Thaksin S.O.P.

And yes the tie with Thaksin is highlighted even more, just as when Amsterdam went to the back of the Red Stage during the rallies for conferences.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Thida Thawornseth, acting chairwoman of the movement, told a press conference that the red-shirt leaders had decided to "intensify our fight and take it to the world court level".

She said the red shirts were "seeking justice" for the protesters killed in the April-May government crackdown by appointing Amsterdam to bring their case to the court, which prosecutes individuals for crimes against humanity and similar issues.

Amsterdam has been hired by former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, who is a major supporter of the red-shirt movement.

What happened to Thida's proclamation that the Reds weren't about Thaksin?

As well as Thaksin's proclamation that he doesn't know the Reds?

Precisely!!!!!

[webfact]

Red-Shirts Appoint Thaksin's Lawyer to Sue Govt in World Court

The red-shirt group has appointed Robert Amsterdam, the international legal adviser to former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, to sue the government in the World Court for the armed forces' role in the fatal crackdown of the anti government rally last year.

MPs Jatuporn Promphan and Thida Tavornset, both red-shirt leaders, have announced that Robert Amsterdam, the international legal adviser to former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, has been appointed to represent the group in suing the Thai government for its role in the fatal crackdown of the anti government rally last year.

The red-shirt leaders said the case will be filed to the World Court on January 31, and that an international press conference will be held afterwards.

Also the group claimed it has been in contact with the family of the Japanese photographer killed during the crackdown, who may wish to file a criminal and civil case against the Thai government as well.

The red-shirt leaders claimed they have reorganized and will soon hold rallies in all regions of the country.

The leaders also confirmed that another rally will be held at Ratchaprasong Intersection this Sunday January 23, after which they will march to the Democracy Monument.

The group is planning to meet with the police and businesses in the area to plan the rally.

-- Tan Network 2011-01-20

[SICHONSTEVE]

They are wasting their time as nothing will come of this. What national government (other than those involved in "war crimes" in trouble spots throughout the world) has ever suffered the consequences of such a case being brought to court be it national or the world court? The only thing it might do is create a bit of negative publicity towards the government which I suppose could be the whole purpose of this futile attempt at besmirching Abhisit's Democrats.

Come the election (which will hopefully see the PTP annihilated) this will be a forgotten event in history with only Mr Amsterdam and his lawyer company having gained anything out of it.

[SICHONSTEVE]

This is a great idea, bring it to the courts, then the Reds will be exposed for the movement that they really are, puppets worked into a frenzy by their aloof master from a far.

The Red Leaders actions can't stand the bright light of international scrutiny.

This is hot air and threats. Typical Team Thaksin S.O.P.

And yes the tie with Thaksin is highlighted even more, just as when Amsterdam went to the back of the Red Stage during the rallies for conferences.

You don't suspect by any chance that Mr Amsterdam sees this as a 'nice little earner', do you? Alternatively, he might just be a consciencious human being that feels that 'the reds' are being persecuted by all a sunder and have been seriously set upon and wronged (on the governments orders) - with their so-called immoral actions leading to the deaths of journalists, innocent civilians and 'red shirts'. I'll leave you to make up your mind on which one is the likely reason. In summary, 'avarice' or 'justice'? The calls yours!!!!

[siampolee]

Sichonsteve

You don't suspect by any chance that Mr Amsterdam sees this as a 'nice little earner', do you?

Upon my soul would you be insinuating that Robert Amsterdam's principles are based on a mercenary stance rather than a moral stance ?

Edited January 20, 2011 by siampolee

[oldsailor35]

They are wasting their time as nothing will come of this. What national government (other than those involved in "war crimes" in trouble spots throughout the world) has ever suffered the consequences of such a case being brought to court be it national or the world court? The only thing it might do is create a bit of negative publicity towards the government which I suppose could be the whole purpose of this futile attempt at besmirching Abhisit's Democrats.

Come the election (which will hopefully see the PTP annihilated) this will be a forgotten event in history with only Mr Amsterdam and his lawyer company having gained anything out of it.

Lets face the facts, as long as these corrupt crooks and their bully General bosses are in power, the Red shirts will NEVER give up.

[Pi Sek]

They are wasting their time as nothing will come of this. What national government (other than those involved in "war crimes" in trouble spots throughout the world) has ever suffered the consequences of such a case being brought to court be it national or the world court? The only thing it might do is create a bit of negative publicity towards the government which I suppose could be the whole purpose of this futile attempt at besmirching Abhisit's Democrats.

Come the election (which will hopefully see the PTP annihilated) this will be a forgotten event in history with only Mr Amsterdam and his lawyer company having gained anything out of it.

Lets face the facts, as long as these corrupt crooks and their bully General bosses are in power, the Red shirts will NEVER give up.

Which corrupt crooks? Which general bosses?

I see from your other posts that you've been living in Thailand for some time. Don't you remember any other corrupt crooks? I do, and if you are talking about Abhisit, Suthep or even Newin, these ones don't even measure on the "corrupt crooks" scale certainly when compared to the likes of Banharn or Thaksin.

And don't you remember both Abhisit and Thaksin trying to get the army to what they tell them? The army don't run the government, but they do consider themselves loyal to HRH The King rather than loyal to the country or government. This is, I accept, a problem as the army's top dogs genuinely believe that civilian Law should not and does not apply to them. However, they can be sacked by the government, and they know it. "General bosses" is just a deflection used by those who want 'democracy' (read 'mafia state').

Do you want the return of a mafia state? Do you even acknowledge that TRT was turning the country into a mafia state? I don't know what your beef is, but you seem to be living in a fantasy world, like many other expats here of course. Some might include me in that.

[rubl]

The red-shirt leaders said the case will be filed to the World Court on January 31, and that an international press conference will be held afterwards.

Is this filing of a case on January 31st the follow-up of the preliminary filing on the 24th of October 2010. That time Robert A. also filed on behalf of the UDD. It was a preliminary report to 'notify the

Prosecutor about the situation in The Kingdom of Thailand'. Would this new filing be the promised 'The situation of Thailand can be brought within the jurisdictional ambit of ICC, which will be dealt with in a separate document filed on behalf of the UDD and others in approximately eight weeks'?

The preliminary report contained some 'minor' inaccuracies, these have been corrected I assume. The 'army firing thousands of rounds into a gathering of protesters' seemed a bit overdone; coloured by emotion rather than fact. As I said at the time the report should be objective even if eye-witness reports may be subjective.

Anyway it seems time to no longer calling Mrs. Thida and k. Jatuporn 'red-shirt leaders'. They are UDD leaders at the most, with a strong link to k. Thaksin. Some of the other red-shirt factions probably moved a bit further away from k. Thaksin and more back to their original ideas of self-entitlement, self-sufficiency and real democracy.

[nikster]

I wish for a miracle, which is that the reds turns into an actual democracy movement.

As it is it's just a vehicle for Thaksin and his friends to get back into power. Those who took it from them are marginally better, but not by that much. A democracy movement is sorely needed in Thailand.

[hardy1943]

They are wasting their time as nothing will come of this. What national government (other than those involved in "war crimes" in trouble spots throughout the world) has ever suffered the consequences of such a case being brought to court be it national or the world court? The only thing it might do is create a bit of negative publicity towards the government which I suppose could be the whole purpose of this futile attempt at besmirching Abhisit's Democrats.

Come the election (which will hopefully see the PTP annihilated) this will be a forgotten event in history with only Mr Amsterdam and his lawyer company having gained anything out of it.

Just hot air. Even with war crimes no one ever done any thing with Pol Pot, Cambodia was not important enough.

[Buchholz]

The red-shirt leaders claimed they have reorganized and will soon hold rallies in all regions of the country.

By reorganized, do they mean they will no longer attempt to feign not being run by Thaksin and return to their more upfront admittance that he's the boss?

Anyway, I look forward to reading about Red Shirt President Thida and Red Shirt Leader Jatuporn's rally in Yala.

I'm sure they will be warmly welcomed there.

Perhaps they could organize another 1,000,000 man march through downtown Pattani, as well.

[hyperdimension]

This is just part of Pheu Thai's political campaign focusing on "injustice".

[Rama]

Another laughable situation. Independent lawyers or groups cannot "file" cases in The International Criminal Court - it doesn't work that way! Reds and Mr. T just trying to stir up local media attention again.

[chuang]

[Which corrupt crooks? Which general bosses?

you must be born yesterday...

[jdinasia]

Lets face the facts, as long as these corrupt crooks and their bully General bosses are in power, the Red shirts will NEVER give up.

The corrupt crooks (Thaksin is on the run from a CONVICTION for corruption/abuse of power) and his generals are not in power ---- that is why the reds won't give up (until their funding dries up).

[jdinasia]

Another laughable situation. Independent lawyers or groups cannot "file" cases in The International Criminal Court - it doesn't work that way! Reds and Mr. T just trying to stir up local media attention again.

And succeeding ---- the only good that comes out of it --- It shows Thida for what she is.

[Emptyset]

I see from your other posts that you've been living in Thailand for some time. Don't you remember any other corrupt crooks? I do, and if you are talking about Abhisit, Suthep or even Newin, these ones don't even measure on the "corrupt crooks" scale certainly when compared to the likes of Banharn or Thaksin.

Why've you put Banharn on the side of Thaksin, when his people are part of this coalition (Chart Thai Pattana)? Suthep, Newin and Banharn have been implicated in so many scandals, you'd be hard pressed to say which is more corrupt. I'd go for Newin. As for Thaksin, surely he must win for using the government to benefit his company and increase his assets, but for directly stealing from the state? Surely nowhere close to Newin, Banharn or Suthep. Obviously there's different ways of looking at this, because you could argue Thaksin caused several state companies massive losses in order to benefit his own, and that was one of the main arguments against him in the assets case, I think (tbh I didn't follow it that closely because I didn't care if he lost or kept his assets, couldn't care less one way or the other, but am interested in the political impact). Can't imagine Banharn, Newin or Suthep running the country and it being less corrupt than Thaksin's government. Obviously we've already seen the results in the case of Banharn.

Of course, some argue (and likely rightly) that Suthep and Newin have far more power in the current government than Abhisit does. We're talking about a government where it's believed that 90% of the money intended for the floods was actually funneled to either corrupt politicians or bureaucrats. I mean is there any real evidence that this government is less corrupt than Thaksin's as a whole? Because under Thaksin, many of the scandals were associated with Newin and cronies (rubber sapling etc) and Newin is still part of this government. Obviously you can point to stuff like the CTX scanners but nothing seems to have come out of that investigation. Under the current govt there's already been the Thai Khem Khaeng scandal, the rotten milk scandal, the rotten fish scandal, the sufficiency economy project scandal, the recent floods scandal, the rice sale scheme scandal and so on. I asked the well known blogger Bangkok Pundit about this (even tho he's know to be somewhat more pro-Thaksin than many blogs), and he says whilst Thaksin was personally more corrupt than the most Thai PMs, his government as a whole was actually less corrupt than most Thai governments. Or maybe he was comparing Thaksin's govt to the current one, I've forgotten now. Incidentally the Burma loan scandal, which was surely one of Thaksin's most egregious moves to benefit his company, but was that even looked into by the AEC? I don't think it was.

Do you want the return of a mafia state? Do you even acknowledge that TRT was turning the country into a mafia state? I don't know what your beef is, but you seem to be living in a fantasy world, like many other expats here of course. Some might include me in that.

What do you mean by "mafia state"? You mean like Russia under Putin? Well, it's arguable I suppose. But Thaksin's power was already greatly diminished at the time of the coup. If there was a time for a coup, it should've been before the War on Drugs! But at the same time, Thaksin is remembered by some as a PM who took steps to reduce organized crime and "dark influence" and they're not wrong... it's just he didn't subject his allies to the same standards as people who opposed him. Anyway that was before, but IF PT win the election, I can't see it being more of a "mafia state" that it is now, tbh... unless Thaksin comes back and becomes PM again, which is highly unlikely. All depends who's in the coalition with them I suppose. Was asking my friend who's anti-Thaksin the other day about what he thought about a possible PT government, he said "we'll have to see how greedy they are, I guess".

Edited January 20, 2011 by Emptyset

[slapout]

The name that is placed at the head of a coalition government can/will change, but trace the family/political influence tree of the members back and there is not much in the way of change. What is surprising is the longevity of the old political families/factions. On second thought maybe surprise is the wrong term.

[Emptyset]

Another laughable situation. Independent lawyers or groups cannot "file" cases in The International Criminal Court - it doesn't work that way! Reds and Mr. T just trying to stir up local media attention again.

Why can't they file cases? I've just tried to look who can file cases and I can't find much about it. There are many cases filed but only a few have been acted upon. And it's true that it looks like the cases they've acted upon are ones filed either by state parties, or the UN. Here's one filed against GW Bush: http://fromtheold.com/news/international-criminal-court-complaint-against-george-w-bush

The question is, will they accept the case? And the answer is, of course not. They've only taken on a few cases and they generally involve the deaths of thousands with millions of lives disrupted.

And succeeding ---- the only good that comes out of it --- It shows Thida for what she is.

Maybe if the government would release the full reports of the DSI which have obviously already been completed, the UDD wouldn't have to resort to such publicity stunts? Or do you expect them just to forget about it? Also, I don't see why reds shouldn't accept help from Amsterdam? Why does it bring them closer to Thaksin? Amsterdam was already working on their behalf as far as I can see, so what exactly has changed? I don't see what's wrong with this, even as a publicity stunt. If the Thai government aren't even going to release documents that they already have documenting what happened, then what hope is there of have of a proper investigation? And it'd be better if it was investigated by a neutral body with neutral observers in the court, otherwise it'll either be UDD leaders charged with no one from security forces implicated, or vice versa if PT win the elections.

[Pi Sek]

Why've you put Banharn on the side of Thaksin, when his people are part of this coalition (Chart Thai Pattana)? Suthep, Newin and Banharn have been implicated in so many scandals, you'd be hard pressed to say which is more corrupt. I'd go for Newin.

Of course, some argue (and likely rightly) that Suthep and Newin have far more power in the current government than Abhisit does. We're talking about a government where it's believed that 90% of the money intended for the floods was actually funneled to either corrupt politicians or bureaucrats. I mean is there any real evidence that this government is less corrupt than Thaksin's as a whole? Because under Thaksin, many of the scandals were associated with Newin and cronies (rubber sapling etc) and Newin is still part of this government.

I put Thaksin and Banharn in the same sentence, not the same side (although, if you remember, Banharn was on Thaksin's side when it suited him). Thaksin and Banharn are two very good examples of very corrupt prime ministers; you'd have to put them up there with the likes of Berlusconi (and I'm unsure whether they'd be above him or not - I'd say they were both worse than Berlusconi). I was just merely trying to highlight that you can't really call Abhisit corrupt when talking about Thai PMs!

And, for the record, Newin is super-corrupt but at least he's go longer-than-short-term vision. Banharn was always in it for the quick buck, above all else, and I would say he's the more corrupt. If he was more clever, he would have pushed the corruption boat out like Thaksin did.

And, you're right, of course some argue that Suthep and Newin have far more power in the current government than Abhisit does... I might even include myself in that group, certainly in the case of that slimeball Newin. But I don't think that will last, for some intangible reason

What do you mean by "mafia state"? You mean like Russia under Putin? Well, it's arguable I suppose. But Thaksin's power was already greatly diminished at the time of the coup. If there was a time for a coup, it should've been before the War on Drugs! But at the same time, Thaksin is remembered by some as a PM who took steps to reduce organized crime and "dark influence" and they're not wrong... it's just he didn't subject his allies to the same standards as people who opposed him. Anyway that was before, but IF PT win the election, I can't see it being more of a "mafia state" that it is now, tbh... unless Thaksin comes back and becomes PM again, which is highly unlikely. All depends who's in the coalition with them I suppose. Was asking my friend who's anti-Thaksin the other day about what he thought about a possible PT government, he said "we'll have to see how greedy they are, I guess".

Yes, Thaksin did take steps to reduce organized crime and "dark influence" but, as you say, didn't apply the same rule to everyone - making him the epitomy of couble standards and selective law enforcement by the way. The direct result of this action was some powerful gangsters being replaced by a new gang - whom Thaksin either allowed to exist, approved of, promoted or directly commanded. Take your pick, they're all representative of state mafia. So therefore he didn't reduce organized crime and "dark influence", but replaced it (and, from where I was sat at the time, it looked like he replaced it on a grander scale than before).

I'm not very sure PT would form a coalition with the Democrats, because some want to focus on Thaksin and others don't. I think it's more likely the party will split between those who want to bring him back and those that don't, in which case the Democrats won't need the latter's coalition support anyway.

[webfact]

Govt Unfazed by Red-shirt Group's International Court Move

The deputy prime minister in charge of national security has shrugged off the red-shirt group's plan to file a lawsuit against the government with the international court over the deaths of 91 people during the crackdown on protesters last year.

Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban commented on the red-shirt group's plan to file a lawsuit against the Democrat-led government with the International Criminal Court on March 31 for the crackdown on red-shirt protesters that killed 91 people in May 2010.

Suthep said he is not concerned about the matter as the truths and facts about the crackdown were apparent.

He also questioned the red-shirt group's move to bring the case to the international court, doubting whether it has grounds to do so.

Suthep stated that lawsuits which are usually brought to the international court should involve massacres.

The deputy PM stated that the extrajudicial killings of over 2,000 alleged drug suspects during the administration of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra should have been brought to the international court instead.

Asked whether the Department of Special Investigation's inconclusive probe into the deaths of the 91 protesters would shake foreigners' confidence in Thailand and leave questions for Thais, Suthep said the investigation will need more time before a conclusion can be reached.

Further asked about the plan by relatives of the Italian photographer killed during the crackdown on red-shirt protesters to sue the government for compensation, the deputy PM said they have the right to do so as an affected party and the matter will be considered by the Thai court.

-- Tan Network 2011-01-20

[Emptyset]

By reorganized, do they mean they will no longer attempt to feign not being run by Thaksin and return to their more upfront admittance that he's the boss?

Anyway, I look forward to reading about Red Shirt President Thida and Red Shirt Leader Jatuporn's rally in Yala.

I'm sure they will be warmly welcomed there.

Perhaps they could organize another 1,000,000 man march through downtown Pattani, as well.

Well, buses of protesters from the deep south supposedly came up to Bangkok for the April/May protests. But that could've been just another scare story put out by the military. Either way, there are definitely Thai muslim red shirts, no question about it*. Thought TRT got kicked out in 2005 as a result of the unrest, PPP managed to win two seats in the deep south in the last election, I believe*. Also, it's the likes of Chalerm and Chavalit who've proposed what must be part of the solution to the southern problems, which is surely devolution of power and some form of autonomy? http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/dec/01/thailand-malay-muslims

*In fact, wasn't Mr. Kasi, linked to the bomb accident in October from Narathiwat?

*http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/2007electionmaps.jpg

[Pi Sek]

[Which corrupt crooks? Which general bosses?

you must be born yesterday...

And you must have trouble reading past the first line.

One who serves it up must be ready to taste the chicken.

- Pi Sek, Jan 2011.

[rubl]

Well, buses of protesters from the deep south supposedly came up to Bangkok for the April/May protests. But that could've been just another scare story put out by the military. Either way, there are definitely Thai muslim red shirts, no question about it*. Thought TRT got kicked out in 2005 as a result of the unrest, PPP managed to win two seats in the deep south in the last election, I believe*. Also, it's the likes of Chalerm and Chavalit who've proposed what must be part of the solution to the southern problems, which is surely devolution of power and some form of autonomy? http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/dec/01/thailand-malay-muslims

*In fact, wasn't Mr. Kasi, linked to the bomb accident in October from Narathiwat?

*http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/2007electionmaps.jpg

When the red-shirt protesters created havoc in a Muslim community in Bangkok Black April 2009, most sympathy Muslims might have had vaporized.

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-244941

As for an 'army scare story', that seems to be your opinion and borders to rumour spreading.

Not sure why you mention the proposal by Gen Chavalit. It was just one of those balloons floated for a moment to disappear after a few days.

Edited January 20, 2011 by rubl

[Emptyset]

When the red-shirt protesters created havoc in a Muslim community in Bangkok Black April 2009, most sympathy Muslims might have had vaporized.

I know about this incident. However, I saw at least one person in a Muslim headscarf in the pics from the most recent red shirt protest! Not that that tells you much one way or the other. But I'm not certain Muslims in the south would be any more pro-red or anti-red than anywhere else, which is what Bucholz was implying. I'm sure I've read something specifically about this issue, something about red shirts actually having more support in the deep south than elsewhere in the south. I can't find it now so perhaps I just imagined it.

Anyway, about Muslims generally, sorry to resort to New Mandala and Nick Nostitz again but there was a bit of discussion about this, I can't link it directly because the thread is quite controversial but you should be able to find it by googling "Nick Nostitz Minburi Muslims".

Nick said in response to something that was equivalent to what Bucholz said here (i.e. Muslims hate the red shirts because of Thaksin):

"Quite wrong there. In both movements you have Muslims. Many Minburi area Muslims are an integral part of the Red Shirt movement.

The Muslim areas of the Ban Krua community and opposite at Petchaburi Soi 5 and 7 are in alliance with the PAD, not for a small reason because of their community leader who joined the PAD." The other poster disagreed, though, said there wasn't much love for the UDD in the Muslim community he lives in.

As for an 'army scare story', that seems to be your opinion and borders to rumour spreading.

Not sure why you mention the proposal by Gen Chavalit. It was just one of those balloons floated for a moment to disappear after a few days.

Whether it's a rumour depends on seriously you take the information "security forces" give to newspapers. Again, can't link directly as it's in the other paper, but you can google "more reds gather BKK provinces", which should bring it up. Why blame me for spreading a rumour? If it's not true, blame the security source for planting such stories in the press.

Well, no particular reason to mention Chavalit, I agree. Good article by McCargo though, worth reading.