biplanebluey Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Here we go again. This leave all of us wondering what is the aim of all these rallies? and mostly, why the heck is the gov't doing nothing. Now we've go both side doing monthly rallies in the heart of Bangkok, wrecking the already fatally bad economy for business in the area. Totally FUBARed. Yes I totally agree.Anyway there must be plenty of places in and around BKK to hold rallies. I am not against rallies [as long as they are peaceful] arter all as already been said,this is what democracy is all about---freedom of speach---but I do feel sorry for all the people trying to earn an honest crust but haveing to curtail or even shut down their businesses because of all this activity. If all they want is to talk,then why not give all protesters a special place dedicated to this sort of event--reds yellows pinks greens ---ANYBODY that wants to have a say.Make it outside of the main business area,make it open from say 9 to 5 [just a suggestion]--the police could still be in attendance. Supporters could set up their stalls and the rest could just sit and listen. The same area could be used for a multitude of busneeses seeking venues for other types of events.The cost of providing this type of venue would have been far outweghed if you take the cost of restoring all the damage done in the last big red shirt encounter to precious buildinga that were burned down. Ban ALL rallies or gatherings in the Capital and let people -locals and tourists- enjoy the City without fears of violence. Please do not just trash or dismiss this suggestion with negative comments. If the people/govt/protesters wanted it to happen, IT COULD BE DONE------Dougal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who, me ? Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Why do the government keep letting these rallys happen? Is so that the Red shirts can have a look at see if all the damage they caused is almost fixed? Ahh yes remember that place we burned down! Because even this govt. tries to show that it is constitutional democracy. I think this thread will prove to be a fine example of the intolerance of the expats in Thailand and their total lack of knowledge of how democratic processes are meant to work Doesn't a free democracy include the rights of groups and individuals to freely express their views without infringing on the rights of others? Which democracy can you think of that would allow 10,000 people to regularly close streets in the centre of the capital, resulting in not only inconvenience and blocked roads, but also loss of income for thousands of others? Ever been in France ? You clearly show your ignorance about this kind of protests in France.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sejati Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Why do the government keep letting these rallys happen? Is so that the Red shirts can have a look at see if all the damage they caused is almost fixed? Ahh yes remember that place we burned down! Because even this govt. tries to show that it is constitutional democracy. I think this thread will prove to be a fine example of the intolerance of the expats in Thailand and their total lack of knowledge of how democratic processes are meant to work Doesn't a free democracy include the rights of groups and individuals to freely express their views without infringing on the rights of others? Which democracy can you think of that would allow 10,000 people to regularly close streets in the centre of the capital, resulting in not only inconvenience and blocked roads, but also loss of income for thousands of others? Ever been in France ? I participated in the Chicago Dem. convention protests in Grant park 1968 and the anti-war rally in Washington where close to one million people were present. The freedom of assembly is necessary for any government to survive or fail as was shown when Nixon resigned and Johnson declined to run again. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." US constitution, Amendment 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keymaker Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Doesn't a free democracy include the rights of groups and individuals to freely express their views without infringing on the rights of others? Which democracy can you think of that would allow 10,000 people to regularly close streets in the centre of the capital, resulting in not only inconvenience and blocked roads, but also loss of income for thousands of others? Ever been in France ? You clearly show your ignorance about this kind of protests in France.... Yet in France they do strike for the "real" things, they aren't backed by a billionaire pro-nazi who is enjoying 6star accommodation gaining profits on shares and giving "nuts" to the fellow poor and uneducated people. You can see he and all his family members are billionaire while the stupids fight and struggle for the democracy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johncat1 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 (edited) Why they only warn US citizens... ? And the rest of us are what exactly... ? This is on the British Embassy Website " On Sunday 23 January an anti-government (Red shirts) rally is expected to take place in Bangkok from the Ratchaprasong Intersection to Democracy Monument. On Tuesday 25 January, a demonstration by the People's Alliance for Democracy (Yellow Shirts) is expected to take place at the Makhawan Bridge, near Government House, Bangkok. You should avoid these demonstrations and any other protests. Anti-government demonstrations are expected to take place in Bangkok on the 10th of every month at Democracy Monument (near Khao San Road), and on the 19th of every month in the central shopping district of Ratchaprasong. You should avoid these demonstrations and any other protests. " We Brits are big boys and we do not have to be told to keep our heads down ha ha ha Edited January 21, 2011 by johncat1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nisa Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 (edited) "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." US constitution, Amendment 1 Congress may not but local and state governments can including specifying if, when, how long and where assemblies can take place and also charging fees for such gatherings and billing the organizing parties for cleanup and security (police).. Lets not also forget if you are truly protesting the government you should do it at government offices and not at Central World Mall in an attempt to intimidate and hurt commercial and tourism interests as well as disrupt the lives of residents. Edited January 21, 2011 by Nisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nisa Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Why they only warn US citizens... ? And the rest of us are what exactly... ? This is on the British Embassy Website " On Sunday 23 January an anti-government (Red shirts) rally is expected to take place in Bangkok from the Ratchaprasong Intersection to Democracy Monument. On Tuesday 25 January, a demonstration by the People's Alliance for Democracy (Yellow Shirts) is expected to take place at the Makhawan Bridge, near Government House, Bangkok. You should avoid these demonstrations and any other protests. Anti-government demonstrations are expected to take place in Bangkok on the 10th of every month at Democracy Monument (near Khao San Road), and on the 19th of every month in the central shopping district of Ratchaprasong. You should avoid these demonstrations and any other protests. " We Brits are big boys and we do not have to be told to keep our heads down ha ha ha Maybe it is a typo of some sort in the OP saying it is directed towards US citizens but I don't think so because the wording is typical of US alerts but I am just wondering why I cannot find this on any of the sites the US advices it citizens to check. I am guessing it may be an alert sent out to people who register for alerts but for some reason hasn't been posted publicly yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Does anybody have a link to where this warning/advisory was published since it currently doesn't exist on the US-BKK Embassy web page or the State Dept's page on Travel Advisories nor can I find it doing a Google News search? We got it in a warden message from US Embassy in Bangkok: -- quote -- ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Bangkok ACS <[email protected]> Sent: Fri, January 21, 2011 10:26:30 AM Subject: Warden Message: Demonstrations Planned in Bangkok on January 23 and January 25, 2011 This message alerts U.S. citizens traveling to or residing in Thailand that the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (aka UDD, or the "red-shirts") plans to hold a demonstration in Bangkok on Sunday, January 23. Scheduled from approximately 1:00 pm to midnight, the demonstration is to begin at the Rajaprasong area (around Central World) and move to the Democracy Monument. Streets surrounding the Rajaprasong intersection are expected to be filled with approximately 5,000-10,000 people in all directions. Many participants are expected to park their vehicles on the sides of Rajadamri and Ploenchit roads, impeding traffic throughout the area. Central World and Siam Paragon may also be affected and close early. As many as 20,000 people may participate in the activities around the Democracy Monument. We strongly suggest that you avoid these areas throughout the afternoon and evening of January 23, 2011. Additionally, on Tuesday, January 25, the People's Alliance for Democracy (aka PAD, or the "yellow-shirts") plans to hold a demonstration in Bangkok. About 2,000 to 3,000 people are expected to pass from around Makkawan Rangsan Bridge onto Rajdamnern Road near the Government House, and finally gather at the Royal Plaza (King Rama V Monument). We strongly suggest that you avoid this area throughout the day and evening since the timing of demonstration is still undetermined. We are not aware of any general, specific, or implied threat to U.S. citizens or U.S. interests throughout this period. However, even demonstrations intended to be peaceful can turn confrontational and possibly escalate into violence with little or no warning. As a precaution, you should avoid areas that may be targeted for demonstrations. Monitor local media to keep updated with the latest information about demonstrations and areas to avoid. Stay alert, and be cognizant of any unattended packages/bags in public/crowded places. Report any suspicious behavior to law enforcement personnel. For the latest security information, you should regularly monitor the Department's Bureau of Consular Affairs Internet website (http://travel.state.gov), where current Worldwide Cautions, Travel Alerts, Travel Warnings and health-information resources can be found. You can also obtain up-to-date information on security by calling 1-888-407-4747 (toll free) in the U.S. and Canada or, for callers in other areas, by calling a regular toll line at 1-202-501-4444. These numbers are available from 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. (Eastern Time), Monday through Friday (except U.S. federal holidays). You are also encouraged to inform the Embassy of your presence in Thailand by enrolling in the Department of State's Smart Traveler Enrollment Program (STEP), available at https://travelregistration.state.gov/ibrs/ui/. The American Citizen Services Unit of the U.S. Embassy is located at 95 Wireless Road in Bangkok, and can be reached by calling 66-2-205-4049, or by e-mailing [email protected]. The Embassy's after-hours emergency telephone number is 66-2-205-4000. This email is UNCLASSIFIED -- end quote -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo the Face Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Bubba said: Doesn't a free democracy include the rights of groups and individuals to freely express their views without infringing on the rights of others? Which democracy can you think of that would allow 10,000 people to regularly close streets in the centre of the capital, resulting in not only inconvenience and blocked roads, but also loss of income for thousands of others? EXACTLY!!!!!!! Your "greatest" democracies in the world do not allow large groups to demonstrate anywhere in a city. Does seem like someone , as posting above, is tunnelsighted... In answer..... Is not France a great democracy ??? The riots in Paris streets in the past couple weeks. Is not Britain a great democracy> The riots in London Streets by the students in the past couple weeks. Not to even bring up those of years ago. I would submit that the poster of the above statement has not done their homework. ....or is using a highly personalized use of words and their interpretation. In other words bunk and BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nisa Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Does anybody have a link to where this warning/advisory was published since it currently doesn't exist on the US-BKK Embassy web page or the State Dept's page on Travel Advisories nor can I find it doing a Google News search? We got it in a warden message from US Embassy in Bangkok: Thanks, I guess this provides another good reason to sign up for these alerts in terms of getting the most timely notices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Does anybody have a link to where this warning/advisory was published since it currently doesn't exist on the US-BKK Embassy web page or the State Dept's page on Travel Advisories nor can I find it doing a Google News search? It looks like it is an email sent to (some) US citizens. Yes, they are sent to Americans that are registered with the Embassy to receive them. They are routinely sent out when these rallies occur, which, with the Reds, have been quite frequent the last several months. It's no less urgent than dozens written in the same format that have been sent out previously. They are good in that they will modify the standard format with details of the specifics of when, where, how many are expected, and expected traffic conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotorbreeze Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Bozos on parade - Hooray! Protesters as I have come to know are payed 1000 baht to appear at rallies, so local hotel staff go on leave for these events! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
random Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Here we go again. This leave all of us wondering what is the aim of all these rallies? and mostly, why the heck is the gov't doing nothing. Now we've go both side doing monthly rallies in the heart of Bangkok, wrecking the already fatally bad economy for business in the area. Totally FUBARed. I would guess it is to give information and make speeches since their radio. tv stations and websites are still closed by government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Does anybody have a link to where this warning/advisory was published since it currently doesn't exist on the US-BKK Embassy web page or the State Dept's page on Travel Advisories nor can I find it doing a Google News search? We got it in a warden message from US Embassy in Bangkok: Thanks, I guess this provides another good reason to sign up for these alerts in terms of getting the most timely notices. Yes. Sign up for the Thaivisa Newsletter here: http://www.thaivisa.com/353.0.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Bubba said: Doesn't a free democracy include the rights of groups and individuals to freely express their views without infringing on the rights of others? Which democracy can you think of that would allow 10,000 people to regularly close streets in the centre of the capital, resulting in not only inconvenience and blocked roads, but also loss of income for thousands of others? EXACTLY!!!!!!! Your "greatest" democracies in the world do not allow large groups to demonstrate anywhere in a city. Does seem like someone , as posting above, is tunnelsighted... In answer..... Is not France a great democracy ??? The riots in Paris streets in the past couple weeks. Is not Britain a great democracy> The riots in London Streets by the students in the past couple weeks. Not to even bring up those of years ago. I would submit that the poster of the above statement has not done their homework. ....or is using a highly personalized use of words and their interpretation. In other words bunk and BS. In Paris and London, did the Government take no action to preclude the protestors from infringing on the rights of others, or did they just stand idly by and allow the protestors to commandeer the centre of the city and allow all traffic and commerce to grind to a halt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chua Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 If the 'shirts rallies are peaceful, then this is part of what democracy is all about. Let them both gather in PEACE and their desire to be heard will be fulfilled. But safety and smooth operation of the city should be protected. Stifling free speech is not a solution, though, since that would only serve to make them more angry and upset. Shirts of both colors had their own reputations badly damaged when they obstructed normal operation of business; so if they want to earn the respect and sympathy of Thai people, it would be wise to remember the importance of maintaining a peaceful and orderly gathering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xonax Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Here we go again. Playing gutter politics.Typical of Thaksin and his cronies. I am sick and tired of westerners supporting the Red mob movement. You are either ill informed or totally ignorant. It has nothing to do with the democracy. They are dangerous organisation led by a deluded grandomaniac. They have set up guerila training camps in Cambodia. They developed the network of radio-stations across Thai countryside-Khmer Rouge style, they constantly spread lies, hatred and vitriol.Their aim is to brainwash uneducated and poor masses in the countryside. Exactly the same as Khmer Rouge movement did. Hun Sen, Cambodian PM was one of them. Get real, you left wing liberals and back up Thai government and the rule of Law. I couldn´t agree more! What a bunch of morons! Why are they allowed to damage the business in Rachaprasong and the life of Bangkokians every two weeks? I look forward to the day, when the bib will be replaced with a proper police force! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkman Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Why do the government keep letting these rallys happen? Is so that the Red shirts can have a look at see if all the damage they caused is almost fixed? Ahh yes remember that place we burned down! I think you'll find it's called freedom of expression or just plain freedom ! Couldn't have stated it better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 We Brits are big boys and we do not have to be told to keep our heads down ha ha ha We Dutch are pragmatic, we just go on as usual. No need for yet another Embassy warning or SMS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonkind Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Here we go again. Playing gutter politics.Typical of Thaksin and his cronies. I am sick and tired of westerners supporting the Red mob movement. You are either ill informed or totally ignorant. It has nothing to do with the democracy. They are dangerous organisation led by a deluded grandomaniac. They have set up guerila training camps in Cambodia. They developed the network of radio-stations across Thai countryside-Khmer Rouge style, they constantly spread lies, hatred and vitriol.Their aim is to brainwash uneducated and poor masses in the countryside. Exactly the same as Khmer Rouge movement did. Hun Sen, Cambodian PM was one of them. Get real, you left wing liberals and back up Thai government and the rule of Law. I couldn´t agree more! What a bunch of morons! Why are they allowed to damage the business in Rachaprasong and the life of Bangkokians every two weeks? I look forward to the day, when the bib will be replaced with a proper police force! Going to a friends wedding close to Central World on Sunday, Really hope for their (My friends) sake that this does not impact on their special day, 500 guests, proper expensive wedding and the day that she has been planning for over a year could be ruined by this? Really sad IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Going to a friends wedding close to Central World on Sunday, Really hope for their (My friends) sake that this does not impact on their special day, 500 guests, proper expensive wedding and the day that she has been planning for over a year could be ruined by this? Really sad IMO. I'm sorry to read this and hope the wedding will be a success. Now nothing personal and please don't take me wrong, but I think it's not the right reason to dislike these monthly rallies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodomino Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I doubt that the main concern of the reds or yellows is the continued quiet comfort of the farang class and I suspect most farang understand and accept this reality. Change is a neccessary condition of survival for people and nations alike. There is no one who can predict what these changes will mean or when or how they will occur but they will happen and it is more just a guess as whether it will be sooner or later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anterian Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Judging by the scorn and vitriol constantly directed at the Reds by many expats I can only assume that they enjoy priviledged positions amongst the Bangkok elite. I feel really sorry for the poor sod who could not get into his luxury apartment because the road was blocked. To be deprived of his aircon, hot water, flush toilet, and satellite TV is criminal behaviour by these dastardly miscreants. Lock them up, throw the key away, better yet call in the army to exterminate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob6023 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 To all those who choose to live in BKK. If you can't take the heat move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob6023 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 To all those who choose to live in BKK. If you can't take the heat move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Judging by the scorn and vitriol constantly directed at the Reds by many expats I can only assume that they enjoy priviledged positions amongst the Bangkok elite. I feel really sorry for the poor sod who could not get into his luxury apartment because the road was blocked. To be deprived of his aircon, hot water, flush toilet, and satellite TV is criminal behaviour by these dastardly miscreants. Lock them up, throw the key away, better yet call in the army to exterminate them. And what about the poor sods trying to earn a living? They are the ones that are hurt most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Going to a friends wedding close to Central World on Sunday, Really hope for their (My friends) sake that this does not impact on their special day, 500 guests, proper expensive wedding and the day that she has been planning for over a year could be ruined by this? Really sad IMO. Your friends aren't alone in their worries. Chai expressed concern that the protest at Ratchaprasong will affect the turnout for events such as weddings planned at various hotels in the area as well disrupt traffic, as more than 5,000 people are expected to turn up for weddings and other ballroom events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonkind Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Going to a friends wedding close to Central World on Sunday, Really hope for their (My friends) sake that this does not impact on their special day, 500 guests, proper expensive wedding and the day that she has been planning for over a year could be ruined by this? Really sad IMO. I'm sorry to read this and hope the wedding will be a success. Now nothing personal and please don't take me wrong, but I think it's not the right reason to dislike these monthly rallies. Fully agree, just wanted to point out that normal people's lives are affected by this as well, I am not moaning(being a South African we are used to working around protests ) and will attend the wedding regardless. The reason I dislike the rallies is that they target areas as they do, if they held it in front of a government institution or in a park it would be understandable IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gers1873 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Just when things are looking a tiny bit settled. Tourist numbers are on the increase again. Thai economy is on an upswing even with a strong THB. Outside view is that Thailand is doing 'pretty well'. And suddenly out from under their rocks come the amoebas in red-shirts about to wreak havoc yet again. Morons the whole bloody lot and the yellow shirts are no better....... perhaps its time for Thais to stop wearing shirts What about giving them a big empty field somewhere remote. Let them hold their silly little protests on alternate days/weeks. We might even turn it into another tourist attraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 (edited) Judging by the scorn and vitriol constantly directed at the Reds by many expats I can only assume that they enjoy priviledged positions amongst the Bangkok elite. I feel really sorry for the poor sod who could not get into his luxury apartment because the road was blocked. To be deprived of his aircon, hot water, flush toilet, and satellite TV is criminal behaviour by these dastardly miscreants. Lock them up, throw the key away, better yet call in the army to exterminate them. And what about the poor sods trying to earn a living? They are the ones that are hurt most. Likely more job losses than rally goers... BANGKOK, Jan 12 - The Ratchaprasong Square Trade Association (RSTA) President Chai Srivikorn said 2,088 operators lost 11 billion baht last year due to the mass rally Chai estimated that 33,000 jobs, mainly in the retail and tourism sectors, could be at risk in the Ratchaprasong area if the protests continued. Edited January 21, 2011 by Buchholz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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