george Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 German sentenced to death over murder of Swiss tourist CHIANG MAI: -- --Chiang Mai Court today (Wednesday) sentenced a German man to death for the premeditated murder of a Swiss tourist in San Kamphaeng district. Judges Siriwan Nakawisut and Kanchana Singpaikaew convicted 34-year-old German national Gordon Adrian Koschwitz for fatally beating and strangling Raphael Baumann, 32, on October 11 last year. Baumann, who had been in Thailand since last August, was found dead in Koschwitz's rented house. Koschwitz reported the death the next day and claimed that Baumann had died after he slipped and fell. Police later arrested Koschwitz and seized a wooden club as evidence, but he denied the charge. The Department of Special Investigation took up the case before submitting it to public prosecutors. After hearing the verdict, Koschwitz was taken to Chiang Mai Special Prison. Koschwitz's lawyer, Watcharapong Tipsukum, told the Associated Press that he planned to appeal the verdict within the 30-day period allowed by Thai law. "He says he did not kill Raphael. He doesn't know who did it," Watcharapong said. Koschwitz has been living in Chiang Mai for nearly five years. --The Nation 2005-08-31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiPauly Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Death for Child Killers, is OK by me, but from what I have read here the Death sentance is a bit harsh. However does drug smuggling deserve the death sentance? Especially when half of the drugs are planted.(Alledgedly) It frightens me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dotcom Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Short answer. Yes. Leave your liberal claptrap at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyMind Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Short answer. Yes. Leave your liberal claptrap at home. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Agreed, you live by the laws of the Country, If you don't like it then you have a choice. Stay or Leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangsom Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 (edited) The death sentence is always inappropriate, it is uncivilized! It does not solve anything and this type of rather primitive ultimate revenge is not the proper way to go! This goes for any crime including child abusers, drug traffickers, murderers, corrupt politicians etc. I am happy that one of the conditions to become a member country of the European Common Market is the total abolishment of the death penalty. Imagine what it really is. It is some people in power - physical - tie someone up and then kill him in various ways (humans are excellent in thinking up ideas for this bizarre ritual). How humiliating for the executors. They don’t even have to fight to get the result they want except with their conscience which they probably don't have . . . Edited August 31, 2005 by Sangsom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin1011 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 The death sentence is always inappropriate, it is uncivilized! It does not solve anything and this type of rather primitive ultimate revenge is not the proper way to go! This goes for any crime including child abusers, drug traffickers, murderers, corrupt politicians etc. I am happy that one of the conditions to become a member country of the European Common Market is the total abolishment of the death penalty.Imagine what it really is. It is some people in power - physical - tie someone up and then kill him in various ways (humans are excellent in thinking up ideas for this bizarre ritual). How humiliating for the executors. They don’t even have to fight to get the result they want except with their conscience which they probably don't have . . . <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Couldn't agree more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle paul Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 The death sentence is always inappropriate, it is uncivilized! It does not solve anything and this type of rather primitive ultimate revenge is not the proper way to go! This goes for any crime including child abusers, drug traffickers, murderers, corrupt politicians etc. I am happy that one of the conditions to become a member country of the European Common Market is the total abolishment of the death penalty.Imagine what it really is. It is some people in power - physical - tie someone up and then kill him in various ways (humans are excellent in thinking up ideas for this bizarre ritual). How humiliating for the executors. They don’t even have to fight to get the result they want except with their conscience which they probably don't have . . . <{POST_SNAPBACK}> agreed state legalised murder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beach Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 people wake up. If you kill someone you'll get the death sentence, that's it. If you don't want it, don't kill. What's all about ... executors ... uncivilized.. what is uncivilized, I kill someone or I get procecuted to death doing so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siam Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Unless you are a Thai Policeman of course he would of been let off, No doubt this thread will be closed soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalama Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Short answer. Yes. Leave your liberal claptrap at home. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Agreed, you live by the laws of the Country, If you don't like it then you have a choice. Stay or Leave. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thailand is first of all a Buddhist country .. so legalized death sentence means bad kamma. I think no real Thai will state that choice when a foreigner is expressing objections of a law which is so obviously against the Dhamma. Kalama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clbelljr Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 (edited) answer. Yes. Leave your liberal claptrap at home. Agreed, you live by the laws of the Country, If you don't like it then you have a choice. Stay or Leave.[/font I am a FLAMMING liberal and believe that people are being handled improperly. I also agree that we should not kill a person or persons that have done nothing wrong to us personally. Where I differ is allowing persons that have no regard for human life to live amonst us. Certainly Drug Dealers and Killers for hire or otherwise. The only solution to have a sane democracy or republic is the elimination of these persons among us. In these cases I support the death penality in its fullest. I do think we should have public executions so that other would be offenders would get the point. Edited August 31, 2005 by clbelljr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonnyJ Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 (edited) Death sentence. Uncivilized. Period. Point being, it's human to error. Edited August 31, 2005 by sonnyJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mogoso Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Where I differ is allowing persons that have no regard for human life to live amonst us. Certainly Drug Dealers and Killers for hire or otherwise. The only solution to have a sane democracy or republic is the elimination of these persons among us. In these cases I support the death penality in its fullest. I do think we should have public executions so that other would be offenders would get the point. [/font] <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree with the death penalty, but I think the execution should be the same as the crime. If a gun is used to kill the victim, the perpretator should be shot. If the victim is stabbed, the guilty should share the same fate. That goes for strangulation, overdose, explosion, whatever. Whats more, on the day of execution, the guilty should be restrained for hours, with no set point, to allow the tension and fear to build up to intolerable levels. Inhumane maybe, but folks would think twice before taking the life of another. That to me would be more of a determent than humanly drugging them to sleep and stopping their hearts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opothai Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 the law of thailand imposes the death penalty. people are aware of this so there is no argument right or wrong. respect he country you are in or do not go every body has a choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Larry Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Short answer. Yes. Leave your liberal claptrap at home. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It is not a liberal issue. No evidence of guilt is presented here which makes your remarks idiotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risky11 Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Death sentence. Uncivilized. Period.Point being, it's human to error. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Death Penalty. Justice. Period! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valleyman Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 The law, as they say, is there; you break it, you get prosecuted. The problem with the death penalty is its finality. If the wrong person is executed, nothing can be done. So, as in this case, how can we be absolutely certain? In Illinois, the Governor repealed all pending death sentences to life because DNA sampling proved that 30% of previous death sentences were carried out on the wrong man. Can we be certain that the justice system is infallible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmmurin Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 The death sentence is always inappropriate, it is uncivilized! It does not solve anything and this type of rather primitive ultimate revenge is not the proper way to go! This goes for any crime including child abusers, drug traffickers, murderers, corrupt politicians etc. I am happy that one of the conditions to become a member country of the European Common Market is the total abolishment of the death penalty.Imagine what it really is. It is some people in power - physical - tie someone up and then kill him in various ways (humans are excellent in thinking up ideas for this bizarre ritual). How humiliating for the executors. They don’t even have to fight to get the result they want except with their conscience which they probably don't have . . . <{POST_SNAPBACK}> agreed state legalised murder <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well if you kill someone in Thailand you don't necessarily get the death sentence...This is a fact Jack!!!!!!! My brother-in-law killed his wife ( premeditated) but with a quarrell two years ago and is under a 7 year supended sentence with reduced time taken off with good behavior on the King's birthday and Mother's Day..How about these apples HUH??????bro!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary A Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Drugs planted ??? I didn't kill him/her ??? These dopers and murderers are NEVER going to admit they are guilty. Wake up people!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilyushin Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Wait and see what happens with the appeal. A life for a life was the rule of days gone by, but now times are different. Nowdays, Kill or be killed seems to be more common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lecter Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 What is amazing is:- The opinions on guilt based on a news snippet The lack of understanding of a countries laws The quickness to judge Food for thought, try walking around Saudi drinking a beer, try taking your girlfriend / wife dressed in shorts in the Kelantan Province in Malaysia, Try wearing a Black Jersey in Aussie Stadium during a Bledisloe cup contest. Law are laws, and this is their country dudes, not a lot we can do, even if we think it's total bumpf.... One things for certain, in all "developing" (for want of another term) countries, it really really pays to stay away from the local legal system. Don't get any cop "conections", just be clean and enjoy the place. Where else would you be??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phibunmike Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 the law of thailand imposes the death penalty.people are aware of this so there is no argument right or wrong. respect he country you are in or do not go every body has a choice <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This is not very constructive - we get the usual "like it or leave" responses. Does this mean we are not permitted to have an opinion or discuss current affairs issues ? I feel it is positive to discuss the current affairs of any country, whether I live there or not (with a few practical limitations in oppressive regimes). Similarly, the "of course he's guilty" crowd are frightening - one post said no-one admits to murder or drug dealing. Does Gary A think that ALL convicted persons are guilty. The fact that there are later reversals and pardons disproves this, but a pardon is not much use to a dead person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john b good Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Short answer. Yes. Leave your liberal claptrap at home. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It is not a liberal issue. No evidence of guilt is presented here which makes your remarks idiotic. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Agree 100% Thailand is not known for it's forensic excellance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemdealers Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Short answer. Yes. Leave your liberal claptrap at home. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Clearly the death penalty is inappropriate. In a flawed legal system with corruption how on earth could it be appropriate? I mean its not as if they have the P E R F E C T sytem without corruption like the US huh and would never kill the wrong people.... NOT!!!!! As someone who is totally not a liberal... intelligence helps when trying to be conservative!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxexile Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 i dont have a problem with death sentences being given and carried out for murder , but in this country , with no jury and with a police force and judiciary that can do as they please and can be bought , with evidence gathering and forensic skills open to question , well you have to wonder if this sentence is right. i dont know the details of the crime , in fact i doubt if anyone , including the police and judiciary know the details of the crime , but in this case i hope the sentence is not carried out , and i doubt it will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidtongue Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 (edited) Short answer. Yes. Leave your liberal claptrap at home. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Agreed, you live by the laws of the Country, If you don't like it then you have a choice. Stay or Leave. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Re: Liberal claptrap. I suppose that you willing to abide by the uneven currency-motivated results that the country has become infamous for too...and of course it is *unheard of* that anyone has been wrongfully accused, imprisoned or convicted in Thailand. And you're willing to hang someone in a system reknown for making up the evidence, paying off the prosecution and police, with only the police forensic lab to vouchsafe the results, in a judicial system that DOES NOT KEEP TRANSCRIPTS]....Where findings of innosence are appealed, where the appeal depends on the trial judge...NEXTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT You might find catching the parachute in mid-air to be a sport worthy of your attention:ph34r: Edited September 1, 2005 by kidtongue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteShiva Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Drugs planted ??? I didn't kill him/her ??? These dopers and murderers are NEVER going to admit they are guilty. Wake up people!! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Are you admitting to dope dealing and murder? No? So according to your logic you must be guilty. Please join the others at gallow no. 4, we will be with you shortly. Have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danone Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 the case of this german is all but transparent. he had delivered several "friends" to the police. claims himself that he had been a kind of spy. how this german was fearing for his life when he had been transferred to chiang mai's central prison. well, he's still alive ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumpole Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Agree 100%Thailand is not known for it's forensic excellance <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nor for the competence and impartiality of its judicial system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farang2002 Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 We should send criminals to Singapore for punishment....they're really good at it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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