Third-Sex Thai Hostesses Ready For Takeoff

[Ulysses G.]

a certain percentage of our worthy posters are a trifle afraid of their own hidden sexual preferences.

Politically Correct Airlines indeed.

[Tanlic]

I always thought Ladyboys were a fly lot this just confirms it

[Kernow86]

What an entertaining thread!

[ginjag]

In major cities all over the world there are lady boys. All over Thailand there are lady boys. A very small percent of them are prostitutes. Your suggestion that they are prostitutes does them a great disservice. I have seen too many young children who were lady boys to think they had anything in their minds about the P4P industry. It is only your prejudice.

They may be not accepted in your part of the world but they are accepted in the US, UK, Australia, Italy, France and Germany.

Why are there so many lady boys in Thailand? If you look at Thai history especially Thai traditional dancing you see evidence of feminine male dancers from hundreds of years ago. I could speculate why but suffice it to say Thailand has a long and honored tradition of men dressing up like women and dancing.

That long tradition has spawned the modern lady boy culture.

Your statement that transsexuals are not accepted is not true in most of the western world. Estelle Asmodelle, actress, author, dancer & Australia's First Legal Transsexual, Courtney Act, singer, gender illusionist, Australian Idol semi-finalist, Pauline Pantsdown, Australian drag queen and musician. A more complete list is below.

http://www.changelin...us%20People.htm

Accepted???? where???

Your list is not even 000.1% of the total population on earth.

Even take Australia for example, there are a handful of "artists" compared to thousands.

Again when you say ladyboy, do you refer to MEN dressing as WOMEN or MEN having the surgery to be WOMEN.?

Take the first guy from your list Courtney Act. His real name is Shane he is a young kid no surgery's nor does he live his life as a woman.

I know him personally from when he was 17 years old.

He is a gay guy who dresses in DRAG and does shows, however lives a life of a man.

He use to work for vodafone as customer service AS A MAN, he goes out to clubs like Stonewall, Arq and Midnight shift AS A MAN, unless he does a show.

In Sydney, there are approx 6 real ladyboys while everyone else is a man who dresses as a woman, but are gay

So as you can see i may know little more about the world then you may think.(Perhaps having owned, operated and manage a number of gay venues in Sydney for 6 odd years, gives me a little more insight into the world then just general observations)

You have seen too many young children who acted or behaved to appear GAY you did not see any children-boys who were actually living their life as girls, unless parents encouraged it.

A very small % are prostitutes??? when was the last time you visited Pattaya or Patpong or Nana or another 100's of places around Thailand?

While in the village, boys acting like girls may not be prostitutes, but once they hit the city's and try to get a job- things very quickly change.

It is NOT common to see ladyboy NOT Gay guy working in 7/11 or large retail chain. There is 1 in Carefour, 1 in Friendship, and few in different family marts or 7/11 and also i think 1 in Pattaya Memorial Hospital in Pattaya, while there are 1000+ all over the bars.

Ever seen ladyboy working in the bank serving customers? and i mean ladyboy not gay man.

I was at Lamtong mall last week. I counted 5 lady boys working there. I saw 6 lady boys in college uniforms on the bus during the last month. I have seen at least one lady boy at those facial places in upscale malls, Wattana something in three different towns during the last month. I look because the uniforms are cream colored short dresses and heels.

At the Tesco Lotus where I shop there are 4 lady boys employed. At Big C in Ranyong 5 or 6 that I can remember.

KFC has some cute ones except for the tattoos.

I am calling a lady boy a male who dresses as a female for work.

Your idea of gender reassignment to be called a lady boy is silly. That is a trans gendered person not a lady boy. Most lady boys keep their tackle because the husbands or significant others like it. I know a number of lady boy teachers.

5 and 6 year old boys in schools who wear skirts not shorts are lady boys, sorry, this is real. Their parents must approve who else would buy the school uniforms.

A short search on the INTERNET located quite a few lady boys in Sydney. A lot more than six.

Thats why I wanted to define lady boy to begin with. I am not now nor was not talking about surgically trans gendered people.

Banks? I don't know. Not at the ones I go to but I will look closer and get back to you.

PS a guy who does drag shows and likes males to sleep with is in my mind a lady boy.

Ok, so now we have cleared it up. I DO NOT call man dressing as a woman a lady boy. I ONLY call man who have had some kind of surgery(being breasts addition or another part removal) and hormone treatment a ladyboy.

The quick search on Internet located man who dress as women and i have already posted for you about one of those man.

Since Google search does not tell you about their private life, i am not sure how you would call them ladyboys, simply because being a lady boy (term used by you or me) could be just their job NOT their life and again Courtney Act was a perfect example of that

But even with the amount you have seen in your neck of woods, is just a tiny %., my examples were of Pattaya and the majority are in the sex industry

Who has the right definition of "lady-boy" ?.............To my mind here in asia a lady boy is a youth/man. who acts effeminate in general... Its not if he has high heeled shoes on or even make up. The person his self, shows to all he prefers to act as a female. He may well never even give it a thought about having a sex op. Thats up to the individual. It's about how comfortable they feel with their self.

[OzMick]

You who are afraid of ladyboys serving your drinks...afraid they will stir it with the wrong appendix?

Doubt most of you will know anyway.

though both are removable, an appendix is a different organ to an appendage

[kuffki]

Who has the right definition of "lady-boy" ?.............To my mind here in asia a lady boy is a youth/man. who acts effeminate in general... Its not if he has high heeled shoes on or even make up. The person his self, shows to all he prefers to act as a female. He may well never even give it a thought about having a sex op. Thats up to the individual. It's about how comfortable they feel with their self.

Definitions of Ladyboy on the Web:

• The term kathoey or katoey (กะเทย, ) generally refers to a male-to-female transgender person or an effeminate gay male in Thailand. Related phrases include sao (or phuying) praphet song (สาวประเภทสอง,"a second kind of woman"), or phet thi sam (เพศที่สาม, "third sex"). ...
  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladyboy
• An effeminate homosexual man, or one who adopts a feminine appearance, especially an intergender person
  en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ladyboy

With all that said, there are a number of straight man who are cross dressed and like to dress as a woman. There are also gay men who dress as a woman to make money doing drag shows and also often called Drag Queens.

[mark45y]

Yes, it's Iran. One of the most repressive countries in the world for gay men. If they wish to stay alive in Iran and have any sex life/social life they are encouraged to become women through surgery. Imagine that, chopping it off when you don't even want to, as gay men generally certainly don't want to!

Ah Jingthing there is the rub. To be a woman or not to be a woman. Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune or turn your butt to the sky and say, “have at it boys.” For who would bear the whips and scorns of time, The pangs of despised love, the law's delay, The insolence of office, and the spurns that patient merit of th' unworthy takes, When he himself might his quietus make With a bare bottom?

The undiscovered country (Thailand), from whose bourn No traveller returns, puzzles the will, And makes us rather bear those ills we have Than fly on PC air to others that we know not of?

Thus conscience does make cowards of us all except those few who take a walk on the wild side.

And the tranny girls go

Doo do doo do doo do do doo..

Little Lek never once gave it away

Everybody had to pay and pay

A hustle here and a hustle there

Pattaya city's the place where they say,

Hey babe, take a walk on the wild side

I said, Hey Jing

Take a walk on the wild side

And Jing thing said,

Doo do doo do doo do do doo..

Edited January 26, 2011 by mark45y

[jayjay0]

Just to make it interesting I will post a part of the OP

"P.C. Air executive Peter Shan said the company had seen the potential of transsexuals to work as hostesses.

Any one care to explane what P C airlind definition of transsexuals is. Might make a difference.

[mark45y]

I wonder how some of those commenting here displaying their Neanderthal leanings feel about female pilots. Would they prefer to walk?

I understand that the Thai military authorities used to classify transsexuals as deformed, suffering from mental disorder or permanently insane. If the macho, in thought but probably not in deed, generals can draw back and show compassion and understanding why cannot the ignorant who posture here? Babies are born with Downs Syndrome, some have deformities, many have birthmarks and some are born with sexual preferences that are not mainstream. Do they induce revulsion and should be kept in isolation? Ladyboys are born with their latent desires, it is in their genes, and as they develop the inclination comes to the fore. I don't think anybody wants to be different, they just are. I admire them for their courage in the face of widespread unwarranted hostility which many face every day.

If you cannot understand the phenomenon or are transphobic, the problem isn't with ladyboys. The real problem is you. Your attitude is little better than the knuckle scraping moron who thinks that you deserve a battering for supporting a football team other than the one that he does.

Well said Bagwan but I think the Neanderthals are not the dangerous ones. It is the intellectuals that chip away at the same freedoms by implying that all lady boys are involved in nefarious behavior and not per chance just regular people subject to the whims of fate as we all are.

[animatic]

I assume you are using "the intellectuals" in an ironic context....

[cup-O-coffee]

Herein lies the problem:

If you hire a ladyboy based on how "feminine" their looks are, then you will be discriminating against the ladyboys who are less feminine looking.

This issue can not be decided on ladyboys who look most like ladies, because then technically, it defeats the purpose of what a ladyboy is all about.

It narrows down the transgendered into a definition of "looks" and not "choice", and subsequently discriminates against more masculine ladyboys who will never be able to look like a female runway model.

If you ask me, this has nothing to do with fairness or recognizing the 3rd sex as legitimate. It is an advertising ploy to trick people into thinking that PC Airlines cares, when in fact it is simply hiring, to all intents and purposes, men who look, act, sound, and behave exactly like ladies; and to hell with the transgendered who are not fortunate enough to pass judgment with their looks.

I vote this down as being unfair to the majority of ladyboys who have some semblance of masculinity, because we are sending them a message that they are not "real" transgendered and will not be recognized as such unless they are exactly like natural females, and indistinguishable from detection.

I hope this makes sense.

Edited January 26, 2011 by cup-O-coffee

[jalansanitwong]

Should prove to be highly popular with all the old Brits but not much else. Why couldnt they just do the obvious and hire pretty girls.Now wouldnt that be a change from all the old farang hags we have these days as flight attendants!! . By the way,there is no such thing as a third sex.

[mark45y]

Who has the right definition of "lady-boy" ?.............To my mind here in asia a lady boy is a youth/man. who acts effeminate in general... Its not if he has high heeled shoes on or even make up. The person his self, shows to all he prefers to act as a female. He may well never even give it a thought about having a sex op. Thats up to the individual. It's about how comfortable they feel with their self.

Definitions of Ladyboy on the Web:

• The term kathoey or katoey (กะเทย, ) generally refers to a male-to-female transgender person or an effeminate gay male in Thailand. Related phrases include sao (or phuying) praphet song (สาวประเภทสอง,"a second kind of woman"), or phet thi sam (เพศที่สาม, "third sex"). ...
  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladyboy
• An effeminate homosexual man, or one who adopts a feminine appearance, especially an intergender person
  en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ladyboy

With all that said, there are a number of straight man who are cross dressed and like to dress as a woman. There are also gay men who dress as a woman to make money doing drag shows and also often called Drag Queens.

I have indeed lived in Pattaya and in NYC, Chicago and DC seen the reason some are called passable and others not passable.

The knuckle draggers among us perhaps never knowing their waitress had an extra appendage. Still, times I wonder myself as cosmopolitan as I am.

Two weeks ago a thought passed through my mind, “no, she must be a girl.” Only a brief doubt. But to ask! Heavens no. I would feel so stupid not to know.

And then I thought, well this might be a really interesting experience, trying to banish the last vestiges of homophobia from the furthest reaches of my brain.

I would not, of course, suggest travelers proposition stewardesses on a regular basis. I think that is a part of what this thread is about.

But it might lead to interesting consequences on a layover in Singapore or certain Muslim countries. And although I find post ops a complete turn off reminiscent of Japanese love dolls I can see the difficulty of flying to Iran or places with stone age laws relative to gender freedom.

Chances are if you have ever been a teacher you have met the class clown. A nice student, always with a smile who keeps the class morale up even in times of stress. Chances are in Thailand that little fellow may be a fledgling lady boy.

Outside of Pattaya in “normal” Thailand there a lot of class clown lady boys, some drama queens also, to be sure. It all works and they all get along. Perhaps as one poster said because of low levels of testosterone in Asian males.

I had a ladyboy friend from years ago in Chiang Mai she worked at a French restaurant called the Brasserie. I was new in Thailand and she was so sweet. Concerned about my penchant for new and perhaps dangerous experiences. We stayed in touch for 5 years by email. She spoke English, French and Thai fluently and helped me with questions I was hesitant to ask my Thai language teachers. Way back when there was a lady boy vet on TV also an interesting and very knowledgeable person. I still have a photo of her in a bikini from a trip to the beach on my computer.

I just don't make the connection between P4P and lady boys the same as I don't make the connection between P4P and Thai women.

La cage aux folles (see photo) is not what I think of when I think of a Thai lady boy. Nor are people who have had gender reassignment surgery. The boy part in lady boy is gone after the surgery.

I understand what you are saying and understand the number of gender reassignment surgeries in Thailand but I think it is a marketing error.

Even with all the repressive policies of the Thai government men come here to experience freedom and one of those freedoms is to explore what had been taboo in their home countries or taboo in their minds.

[softgeorge]

You can give your house a new coat of paint but it is still the same house, You can cut and polish and put nice shinning wheels on your car but it's still the same old car. A man can dress in women's clothing and lop off the old fella but it is still a man.

[mark45y]

Should prove to be highly popular with all the old Brits but not much else. Why couldnt they just do the obvious and hire pretty girls.Now wouldnt that be a change from all the old farang hags we have these days as flight attendants!! . By the way,there is no such thing as a third sex.

I asked myself the same question a number of times when hiring for my restaurant/bar. If you don't mind I will give you one example. My place was in downtown Chicago on the main floor of a high rise building that housed among other business a number of talent agencies and theatrical companies who frequently dined at my establishment. John Denver, Bob Dylan, The Beach boys and others sometimes graced my dining room and bar. John Denver graced the bar quite a bit (drinking problem). Across the street were strictly corporate headquarters, suites and starched white shirts but big spenders. Single malt, water back. My cocktail waitresses wore red uniforms short skirts plunging neckline and a push up bra. Dining room waitresses typical black and white waitress uniform. The employee break table was next to my office so I heard most of the conversations. Also the employees got a free after shift drink and meal. If they were cute maybe 3 or 4 drinks. The lady boys did OK. I was amazed at the repeat customers. No not hookers, cocktail waitresses although I will admit the line is fuzzy. I used to scotch tape a lot of $100 dollar bills together.

So to answer your question, 2 out of 20 waitresses as passable TV's will generally increase business as opposed to 20 genetic females in a big city.

Edited January 26, 2011 by mark45y

[mark45y]

You can give your house a new coat of paint but it is still the same house, You can cut and polish and put nice shinning wheels on your car but it's still the same old car. A man can dress in women's clothing and lop off the old fella but it is still a man.

I always wondered why my third wife's ex husband liked me so much. He shook my hand gave me a genuine smile and told me if there was ever anything he could do for me to let him know. He was serious. Nice guy.

He was ecstatic to be getting rid of her.

I saved him a ton of money and mental anguish.

Everybody is somebody's nightmare.

Some days in the cold snow and slush and PC BS of the West one just wants to get away from anything that resembles it.

I think the same is true of lady boys. I have never met a lady boy that even remotely reminded me of one of my ex wives.

The one who tried to pickpocket and stab me the possible exception.

[OzMick]

I, also, will not fly PC Air, but I am much more concerned with Mr Chan's ability to run an airline than the stews. Until proven otherwise, to me a fortune teller is another name for a con-artist, and I have a feeling both workers and ticket-buyers will end up with less than they expect.

[Sydebolle]

Tiffany will not like it ........ and strolling on Pattaya beach will be a safe affair again!

[ginjag]

Herein lies the problem:

If you hire a ladyboy based on how "feminine" their looks are, then you will be discriminating against the ladyboys who are less feminine looking.

This issue can not be decided on ladyboys who look most like ladies, because then technically, it defeats the purpose of what a ladyboy is all about.

It narrows down the transgendered into a definition of "looks" and not "choice", and subsequently discriminates against more masculine ladyboys who will never be able to look like a female runway model.

If you ask me, this has nothing to do with fairness or recognizing the 3rd sex as legitimate. It is an advertising ploy to trick people into thinking that PC Airlines cares, when in fact it is simply hiring, to all intents and purposes, men who look, act, sound, and behave exactly like ladies; and to hell with the transgendered who are not fortunate enough to pass judgment with their looks.

I vote this down as being unfair to the majority of ladyboys who have some semblance of masculinity, because we are sending them a message that they are not "real" transgendered and will not be recognized as such unless they are exactly like natural females, and indistinguishable from detection.

I hope this makes sense.

This does make sense, should be an outcry about the airlines attitude, If they wish to employ they should accept who they see fit to do the work, experience, pleasant, clean, and appearance. does it matter what sexual orientation ?? This is a publicity stunt gone wrong to my thinking. People are asking for trouble when they try these"we are flexable" campains.

If I am being served on route, sure I'm not going to say ( excuse me -but are you-you know-thingy) Ha

[elshaheen]

Back at DM airport, years ago, I was stuck in a transit space with other passengers - waiting for hours for a delayed take-off. On the intercom, there were loud (very loud, as it has to be in Thailand) announcements every minute or so. The voice was obviously a trans-sexual (I hesitate to say the 'k' word on T.Visa, for fear of being bounced). There was muted giggling adjoining each announcement. For some people, that may seem fine, but others of us don't particularly like being loudly spoken at, with a feminine man's overly-effeminate voice accompanied by giggling - periodically for hours on end.

K word??? KATOEY? What's wrong with that?

Katoey is considered offensive to a ladyboy. It is like walking down the streets in any given city or town and calling a black man a

Nigger", your libel to get your A*s kicked on the spot. Or a white westerner called, "Potato", or Asian "Rice", or Muslim "Terrorist", or Mexican ....

and so one.

[Jingthing]

Katoey is considered offensive to a ladyboy. It is like walking down the streets in any given city or town and calling a black man a

Nigger", your libel to get your A*s kicked on the spot. Or a white westerner called, "Potato", or Asian "Rice", or Muslim "Terrorist", or Mexican ....

and so one.

Not exactly.

http://ricemagazine.net/index.php/about-rice-magazine

I agree Kathoey is not a nice word. I have also heard it used by Thais as a general description for all gay people. It is clear general Thai labeling/concepts of sexuality differs from mainstream western ones.

Edited January 26, 2011 by Jingthing

[mark45y]

Back at DM airport, years ago, I was stuck in a transit space with other passengers - waiting for hours for a delayed take-off. On the intercom, there were loud (very loud, as it has to be in Thailand) announcements every minute or so. The voice was obviously a trans-sexual (I hesitate to say the 'k' word on T.Visa, for fear of being bounced). There was muted giggling adjoining each announcement. For some people, that may seem fine, but others of us don't particularly like being loudly spoken at, with a feminine man's overly-effeminate voice accompanied by giggling - periodically for hours on end.

K word??? KATOEY? What's wrong with that?

Katoey is considered offensive to a ladyboy. It is like walking down the streets in any given city or town and calling a black man a

Nigger", your libel to get your A*s kicked on the spot. Or a white westerner called, "Potato", or Asian "Rice", or Muslim "Terrorist", or Mexican ....

and so one.

Do you actually know any lady boys?

[animatic]

Maybe they should just resurrect

TRANS World Airlines?

[RaoulDuke]

Funny how all the transphobic bigots in here complain how trans women are all hookers, yet when they try and be productive regular members of society by getting a respectable job, the bigots jump all over them, complaining about how they would not do business with a company who employs the ladyboys. I am sure the same ignorant bigots were complaining about airlines hiring male FA's, but I wonder how many of them stuck to their threats of avoiding airlines that hire males. Oh well, the joke is always on the hate-mongers, because people who harbor the most hate at others tend to also harbor the most hate at themselves, for denying who/what they really are by endlessly living a lie...at their own expense. So keep wallowing in your ignorant and hate-filled haze, while the rest of us go about and live our lives without constant paranoia and self-hatred.

[Bagwan]

It is well worth remembering that there are wide variations within mainstream men and women. Some ladies are shy, reserved, delicate flowers while others look as if they kick start Jumbo jets at Ringway for a living and play as hooker for Rochdale Hornets at the weekend. Similarly with men. David Gower was far from macho in appearance compared with 'Beefy' Botham yet both were recognised as talented alpha males. It would appear that the persona of men and ladies overlaps to a degree i.e. some men are more feminine than those women that have masculine traits. We all come out of the same mould, but some are mouldier than others.

I would rather be served my G & T at 35,000 feet by a presentable and attractive transsexual than a blowzy tattooed, run to fat Schwarzenegger wannabe. Discriminating? Maybe, but people do, and always have, made judgments about others. All I ask is that if you want to be loved, be loveable.

[atyclb]

These ladyboys got to have their ding dongs removed before they can start work. Well as the saying goes, 'If you look like a duck, walk like a duck and you talk like a duck . . . you must be a duck.'.

I'll just leave it at that.

Actually I think most of them don't get their penis' removed .. at the very least a good portion of them don't. Some don't do much beyond changing their cloths and wearing makeup.

From a previously posted article:

However, only three transvestite candidates will be hired and each of them must undergo sex-change surgery if they haven't already.

(emphasis mine)

Whether they had it cut off or not is a "moot point" Who really cares? I wouldn't care or even wonder aboard a flight, it is just someone doing their job. SRS does nothing to effect the external appearance. except cartilage plasty.

[atyclb]

Maybe they should just resurrect

TRANS World Airlines?

Thumbs up; a witty response

[mystwoodcol]

Maybe they should just resurrect

TRANS World Airlines?

Thumbs up; a witty response

How about Viagra Airline

"We are had up to fault"

[Ulysses G.]

Oh well, the joke is always on the hate-mongers, because people who harbor the most hate at others tend to also harbor the most hate at themselves, for denying who/what they really are by endlessly living a lie...at their own expense. So keep wallowing in your ignorant and hate-filled haze, while the rest of us go about and live our lives without constant paranoia and self-hatred.

Don't worry. Be happy.

[brahmburgers]

Back at DM airport, years ago, I was stuck in a transit space with other passengers - waiting for hours for a delayed take-off. On the intercom, there were loud (very loud, as it has to be in Thailand) announcements every minute or so. The voice was obviously a trans-sexual (I hesitate to say the 'k' word on T.Visa, for fear of being bounced). There was muted giggling adjoining each announcement. For some people, that may seem fine, but others of us don't particularly like being loudly spoken at, with a feminine man's overly-effeminate voice accompanied by giggling - periodically for hours on end.

K word??? KATOEY? What's wrong with that?

Katoey is considered offensive to a ladyboy. It is like walking down the streets in any given city or town and calling a black man a Nigger", your libel to get your A*s kicked on the spot. Or a white westerner called, "Potato", or Asian "Rice", or Muslim "Terrorist", or Mexican ....

and so one.

I don't see it that way. The word 'katoy' might be slightly offensive to some katoy, but if so, it highlights my earlier assertion that katoy are hyper-sensitive and quick to anger and vindictiveness if offended - and it appears they're offended easily. Have you ever had someone get offended by a look from you (or from someone), yet that look may have been totally benign and had nothing to do with the offended person. Same can happen with an ordinarily benign comment - not even directed at the person getting offended.

That's why I would feel uncomfortable with katoy as stewardesses. Maybe it's unlikely, but it's still possible that such a person might get offended, angry, recriminatory at some mention or some glance that has nothing to do with them. It's a form of paranoia, and it happens often among people with self-identity problems. Let's be honest, can we agree that most, if not all katoy have suffered to some degree with identity issues?

Edited January 26, 2011 by brahmburgers