เบาๆ ลอยๆ

[DavidHouston]

Friends,

From a short story in this week's news magazine:

"นักเขียนพูดเบาๆลอยๆ"

I have questions regarding the phrase "ลอยๆ" Lexitron has the definition as follows:

ลอยๆ /lɔ̄ːjˑlɔ̄ːj/ [ADJ] indiscreet Def. ไม่เฉพาะเจาะจง Example : เพราะคำพูดลอยๆของเขานั่นเองจึงทำให้หลายคนคิดมาก

ลอยๆ /lɔ̄ːjˑlɔ̄ːj/ [ADV] indiscreetly Def. อย่างไม่เจาะจงผู้ใดโดยเฉพาะ

Example : การจะกล่าวหาว่าผู้ใดทุจริตคอรัปชั่นจะต้องมีหลักฐานมิใช่กล่าวลอยๆ

Domnern has "พูดลอยๆ" as "to toss something out; say something out of the blue; mention casually".

Based on the Lexitron examples,the Domnern definition seems more appropriate. I am finding it difficult to use the words "indiscreet" and "indiscreetly" in these contexts.

เพราะคำพูดลอยๆของเขานั่นเองจึงทำให้หลายคนคิดมาก

Because he spoke so indistinctly, many people wondered what he did in fact say.

การจะกล่าวหาว่าผู้ใดทุจริตคอรัปชั่นจะต้องมีหลักฐานมิใช่กล่าวลอยๆ

Accusing someone ofcorruption must have a basis in fact, [such charges] cannot be make just off the cuff.

Is it possible thatLexitron has an English spelling error and that the authors meant "indiscrete"instead of "indiscreet"?

"นักเขียนพูดเบาๆลอยๆ" might then be "The writer spoke quietly under his breath".

What do you think?

[tgeezer]

Lexitron is obviously wrong but not just because it doesn't agree with RID but because it doesn't even agree with itself, indiscreet, ไม่เจาะจง

ลอย ๆ actually means to 'follow the herd' or 'join in' but that is the RID and could be stretched to having no idea of your own and speaking as such ie. 'undifined' .

The English words are better coming from you.

It is a pity one can't quote the first post on any topic it would make commenting easier. อย่างการพูดที่ให้หลายคนคิดมาก could be any number of things. คิดมาก could be 'thought provoking' which could be ลอย ๆ leaving much to their own resources, or it could be vague to the point of making 'many people bewildered'.

หลักฐาน is no problem ลอย ๆ I would say meant vague allegations. เบา ๆ ลอย ๆ soft and vague.

I think Vague seems to be one worth putting in some contexts.

[RickBradford]

Did they perhaps mean "indistinct"?

[Tod Daniels]

I came across this phrase in a magazine article I was reading the other day. I took the meaning in the context of the article to be something along the lines of "vague, oblique", or "circuitous"; in a rambling fashion, without supporting your observation with facts. This can have the results of being 'thought provoking', or 'bewildering' depending on the topic and situation.

It even works in your example sentence;

Because he spoke so “vaguely, obliquely, circuitously", many people wondered what he did in fact say.

Off Topic:

Granted, the words oblique, and circuitous have their own thai equivalents, (with the last word being the new slang word ‘weng’ "เหวง" in tribute to Dr. Weng and his penchant for talking without making a point; in common usage "อย่ามาเหวง" or "Don't weng me!")

Back On Topic:

At first I thought Lexitron might have gotten the engrish definition wrong and they meant it to be "indistinct" rather than “indiscreet”. However, some further research lead me to believe it could also be a simple misspelling in the english definition (indiscreet/indiscrete) too. FWIW: I didn’t even know the engrish meaning for “indiscrete”, but it seems it could fit, as I found out it means something along the lines of; “not divided into parts, or appearing not to consist of separate parts”.

“RickBradford” and ‘tgeezer” seem to be on the right track with “indistinct” and “vague” being the best meanings offered out so far.

[Peppy]

My understanding of "ลอย ๆ" is that it means something like "unspecific(ly)" or "loose(ly)".

For นักเขียนพูดเบาๆลอยๆ, howabout "The writer spoke softly and loosely."

เพราะคำพูดลอยๆของเขานั่นเองจึงทำให้หลายคนคิดมาก "Owing to his loose speech, many people read far to much into what he said."

การจะกล่าวหาว่าผู้ใดทุจริตคอรัปชั่นจะต้องมีหลักฐานมิใช่กล่าวลอยๆ "To say that a person is corrupt requires evidence; it is not an accusation to be made loosely."

[tgeezer]

Lexitron is obviously wrong but not just because it doesn't agree with RID but because it doesn't even agree with itself, indiscreet, ไม่เจาะจง

ลอย ๆ actually means to 'follow the herd' or 'join in' but that is the RID and could be stretched to having no idea of your own and speaking as such ie. 'undifined' .

The English words are better coming from you.

It is a pity one can't quote the first post on any topic it would make commenting easier. อย่างการพูดที่ให้หลายคนคิดมาก could be any number of things. คิดมาก could be 'thought provoking' which could be ลอย ๆ leaving much to their own resources, or it could be vague to the point of making 'many people bewildered'.

หลักฐาน is no problem ลอย ๆ I would say meant vague allegations. เบา ๆ ลอย ๆ soft and vague.

I think Vague seems to be one worth putting in some contexts.

I was hoping to amend this but this will do. I looked up พลอย wrongly instead of พล่อย to get follow the herd and am pleased to say that the RID agrees with all the other definitions. ลอย ๆ = พล่อย ว. อาการที่พูดง่าย ๆ โดยไม่ตริตรอง which brings up: ใคร่ครวญ พิจารณะ คิดทบทวน etc. without due consideration, without research, without second thoughts. Speaking without thinking is what it means I should think.

I see loosely there now, I don't think you have to get one word and stick slavishly to it, or do you? How can there be official translations as one post alluded to, not everybody speaks the same way and certainly not all the T/E dictionaries agree.

Edited January 26, 2011 by tgeezer

[Peppy]

I see loosely there now, I don't think you have to get one word and stick slavishly to it, or do you?.

No, no, absolutely not. It just seemed to fit quite well in the context of those particular sentences.

[Peppy]

After giving it some thought, another translation of ลอย ๆ that comes to mind is "absentmindedly". Also, So Sethabutra's dictionary gives "without provocation", so perhaps a translation for นักเขียนพูดเบาๆลอยๆ could be "The writer spoke softly, unprovoked."

[farangnahrak]

Just a thought . . . perhaps it's the same meaning of ลอย as in ใจลอย?

นักเขียนพูดเบาๆลอยๆ

The writer spoke leisurely without direction.

[tgeezer]

Just a thought . . . perhaps it's the same meaning of ลอย as in ใจลอย?

นักเขียนพูดเบาๆลอยๆ

The writer spoke leisurely without direction.

I have just found it in the dictionary, I was led astray initially by a single entry which led to พล่อย but I have just found พูดลอย ๆ ไม่มีที่อ้างอิง ; อาการที่พูดห้วน ๆ ไม่มีหางเสียงไม่มีคำลงท้าย เช่น พูดลอย ๆ ไม่มีคะขา

The first definition is what we have already, the second; speak short sounds without ending words. The example doesn't help me at all so I can't be sure of the translation. Terse, abrupt, are some words, so with เบา ๆ it would appear to comment on the manner of speaking rather than content in this case.