Cambodia Replaces Controversial Stone Tablet Near Preah Vihear Temple

[webfact]

Cambodia removes second provocative tablet

By The Nation

Cambodia yesterday agreed to remove a second stone tablet from the disputed area next to Preah Vihear temple to help reduce mounting pressure by the nationalist People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) against the Thai government.

"It's over," Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva told reporters. "There's no need to negotiate as we told them to remove the plate and they cooperated."

Cambodia had placed the stone at Wat Keo Sekha Kirisvara, next to the Preah Vihear temple claimed by Thailand and Cambodia as their own.

It read: "Here! is the place where Thai troops invaded Cambodian territory on July 15, 2008, and withdrew at 10.30am on December 1, 2010."

In that incident, the Thai military entered the area to secure the release of three Thai nationalists held by Cambodian officials. The Thais went there to express their anger after learning that Cambodia had had Preah Vihear listed as a World Heritage Site.

The Thai military has contacted its counterpart in Phnom Penh in recent weeks to express its concern that the stone plate could fuel tension between the two countries.

Cambodia agreed to remove the plate on Tuesday. It was replaced with another one that said "Here! is Cambodia." Thailand insisted that the second stone be removed too.

Abhisit is now walking a political tightrope as Thai-Cambodian relations become increasingly fragile and his major allies, the PAD, turn their guns on his government.

The yellow-shirt group is demanding the government take a tough stance in its dealings with Phnom Penh over boundary issues including the dispute over Preah Vihear.

They want Abhisit to scrap a memorandum of understanding signed in 2000 on boundary demarcation and forcibly remove Cambodian communities from disputed areas. They also want the government to quit the World Heritage Committee, the body that listed Preah Vihear as a World Heritage Site in 2008.

The Thai Patriots Network, a PAD-related group, dispatched seven Thais to inspect a disputed area near Sa Kaeo province's Ban Nong Chan who were then arrested by the Cambodian authorities on December 29.

Five of them received suspended sentences of nine months and have already returned to Thailand. The remaining two, high profile nationalist Veera Somkwamkid and his assistant Ratree Pipatanapaiboon, remain in Cambodia awaiting trial on additional charges.

Abhisit said he would allow the Cambodian court to try Veera and Ratree on February 1 and would seek ways to help them after the prosecution.

The government has tried to solve the problem while maintaining good relations with Cambodia, he said.

A planned military exercise in border areas near Preah Vihear will not spark conflict with Cambodia as it is a normal procedure for the military, he said.

However, conflict with the PAD is more of a concern for Abhisit as the group threatens to prolong its protest near Government House until the government bows to its demands.

Abhisit said he was ready to talk with the PAD to explain the government's position and find a way to solve the problem, but yellow-shirt leader Chamlong Srimuang said the demands were non-negotiable.

The PAD has also threatened to sue Abhisit and his ministers, accusing them of causing Thailand to lose territory to Cambodia.

Abhisit said he had no problem with the lawsuit as he had confidence in his conduct and had done nothing wrong regarding the boundary.

-- The Nation 2011-01-27

[asiawatcher]

An average 4 year old child exhibits more maturity than this lot....

[mkawish]

Can somebody tell me why this small piece of land with an old ruined small temple is worth fighting for like small children ?

I understand the importance of the temple but still... In my opinion it's a non-issue, better cooperate for making it a nice historical monument for both countries.

The ownership of the temple is not disputed by either country. Its in Cambodian territory.

It is adjacent land not governed by the 1962 ICJ ruling. and which is subject to a bilateral 2000 MOU affirming a Joint Boundary Commission that is in dispute, along with other areas of the Thai-Cambodian border for which detailed mapping and boundary markers do not exist.

You are incorrectly informed....

The very ownership of the PraVeHarn temple is at the heart of the dispute from the very beginning....

The inscription appearing on the the stone tablet showed in Thai language saying that Thai citizen so and so royalty built this temple....

However, the Thai owing to her own inadequacy in lobbying and poor presentation of relevant facts on international front and judiciary that curtailed her chance of a favorable decision....

It is very much like the present environ concerning the Northeastern Thai borders between Thailand and Camb.... PM Apisit kept insisting that he and his govt never accept the 1:200,000 French map....

However, Apisit and his govt never present such a view point on international front.... repudiating Camb HuSan's any and all claims on those parcels of land where the International Red Cross and the UN members some 30+ years ago petitioned for the Thai to allow some strips of land for Cambodian refugees to settle temporarily awaiting resettlement to a more accepting third nations....

Those parcels of land belong to Thailand....

How could the Camb HuSan have the human decency to claim those parcels as Camb....?

Older Farang working on resettlement are rolling on the floor laughing.... :jap:

However, the same can not be expected from those who are at the moment under 40 yr old though....

Edited January 27, 2011 by mkawish

[Buchholz]

The one thing that puzzles me about about this whole fiasco is what language was the "Cambodian Message" written in....If written in Khmer, how do the Thai's know what it said....The tablet could have said "get your free Somtam here" for all they knew...

Could it be vaguely possible that at least one Thai is capable of reading Khymer, unlike the majority of farangs here who can't read Thai.

Yeah. Lots of Thais in that part of the country speak Khmer as their first language, they know exactly what it says.

Khmer Thai indeed do speak Khmer but do not read, nor write it, due to the educational system in Thailand and even though the Thai script seems to be derived from the Khmer script.

Yet another possibility.... it's in English

The smashed sign that said,

Here !

Is Cambodia

.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Buchholz

[DP25]

Khmer Thai indeed do speak Khmer but do not read, nor write it, due to the educational system in Thailand and even though the Thai script seems to be derived from the Khmer script.

I'm sure plenty can read it even if it isn't taught in school. It's just an alphabet, it's not like learning Chinese. It should be easy for native Khmer speakers.

[Caliguy]

Reports of Cambodia raising their national flag at the disputed temple.

[Buchholz]

Reports of Cambodia raising their national flag at the disputed temple.

and doing so after erecting and then demolishing two provocative signs... and so many say only Thailand has been pushing the envelope in the area.

[sabaijai]

Can somebody tell me why this small piece of land with an old ruined small temple is worth fighting for like small children ?

I understand the importance of the temple but still... In my opinion it's a non-issue, better cooperate for making it a nice historical monument for both countries.

The ownership of the temple is not disputed by either country. It;s in Cambodian territory, as recognised by both governments.

It is adjacent land not governed by the 1962 ICJ ruling. and which is subject to a bilateral 2000 MOU affirming a Joint Boundary Commission that is in dispute, along with other areas of the Thai-Cambodian border for which detailed mapping and boundary markers do not exist.

You are incorrectly informed....

The very ownership of the PraVeHarn temple is at the heart of the dispute from the very beginning....

I guess the BBC is misinformed as well.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7507425.stm

[mkawish]

Can somebody tell me why this small piece of land with an old ruined small temple is worth fighting for like small children ?

I understand the importance of the temple but still... In my opinion it's a non-issue, better cooperate for making it a nice historical monument for both countries.

The ownership of the temple is not disputed by either country. It;s in Cambodian territory, as recognised by both governments.

It is adjacent land not governed by the 1962 ICJ ruling. and which is subject to a bilateral 2000 MOU affirming a Joint Boundary Commission that is in dispute, along with other areas of the Thai-Cambodian border for which detailed mapping and boundary markers do not exist.

You are incorrectly informed....

The very ownership of the PraVeHarn temple is at the heart of the dispute from the very beginning....

I guess the BBC is misinformed as well.

http://news.bbc.co.u...fic/7507425.stm

Thx for the reference.... it clarifies many ambiguity....

I see now.... why there are so many diversed ideas and opinions concerning the same problems and issues on Thaivisa....

Mainly, personally I listen to and watch Thai news sources, sort of getting everything from the horse's mouth.... so to speak....

whereas the majority of Thaivisa members are listening to and watching the same pieces of news from translated English sources from different countries...

so what most Thaivisa members read and learn.... are in fact.... subject to translators' insights, abilities and biases....

Wonder just how could we bridge this immense differences.... so we can have the same input from the same source.... so we can discuss and debate the core of the reality and issue.... rather than depending on some others to digest the news for many of us....?

[sabaijai]

I read Thai news as well, in Thai, and nowhere I have read that the Thai government lays claim to Khao Phra Wihan.

[mkawish]

I read Thai news as well, in Thai, and nowhere I have read that the Thai government lays claim to Khao Phra Wihan.

sabaijai

Your Thai name appears to mean--contented.... ? Isn't that correct....?

Perhaps, you are fortunate enough also to be among one of the rare breeds of being blessed with higher Western education as well.... ?

Anyway, perhaps.... you are just not old enough yet.... (just joking, sir)

to assimilate a memorable emotional speech delivered by then Field Marshall SaRid ThaNaRutt....

on Thai people's claim on PraVeHarn temple.... :jap:

Perhaps, you were not in Thailand as yet....? Or....

Perhaps, you were just beginning to learn Thai language then....? Or....

Perhaps, you could not care less about Field Marshall SaRid.... for many reasons....?

Well.... succinctly, just because one does not read it in Thai or in any other languages....

that does not mean that it is not in existence .... or does it....?

Personally, I do attest that I heard it and viewed it several times....

and each time.... I felt chocked up.... wanting to cry.... on behalf of Thailand and Thai people....

On a personal note, be a little more diligent.... perhaps you could learn even more.... and

be even exponentially more levitated in enjoying Thai.... :jap:

Or perhaps, the 8212 post would achieve the ultimate declaration and acclamation of ....

Thai government lays claim to Khao Phra Wihan.

With all due respect.... Cheers mate....

Edited January 28, 2011 by mkawish

[SICHONSTEVE]

Good move Hun Sen, this tablet was stupid! As stupid as the Yellow provocation.

Well, we still don't know who "covers" the Yellow...

Yes, maybe, but why the new sign. This is pure pettiness - the type of stunt that immature teenagers would carry out. The Cambodian's should grow up!!!

It wouldn't change the border conflict as such, but maybe if they identified who paid for the work and the nationality of the workers that built the wat (wud) then this might go someway in supporting their argument as to who has sovereign rights to this heritage site.

[whybother]

Good move Hun Sen, this tablet was stupid! As stupid as the Yellow provocation.

Well, we still don't know who "covers" the Yellow...

Yes, maybe, but why the new sign. This is pure pettiness - the type of stunt that immature teenagers would carry out. The Cambodian's should grow up!!!

It wouldn't change the border conflict as such, but maybe if they identified who paid for the work and the nationality of the workers that built the wat (wud) then this might go someway in supporting their argument as to who has sovereign rights to this heritage site.

The temple was built over a thousand years ago. I don't think the "nationality" of the workers then has much relevance now.

[Lite Beer]

Lawyers for detained Thais need more time

By THE NATION ON SUNDAY.

Lawyers from the Thailand Patriots Network will ask a Cambodian court to postpone the reading of a verdict from this Tuesday in the case against two Thais charged with trespassing and espionage.

They said they had not collected sufficient information and proof to be presented to the court in order to defend Veera Somkwamkid and Ratri Pipattanapaiboon.

TPN legal adviser Wanwipa Charoonroj said the group's lawyers were unable to survey the border area where Cambodian soldiers arrested the two and five other Thais on December 29. Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban had not granted permission for a survey of the area despite Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva ordering state agencies to help facilitate the lawyers' travel to the disputed border area.

Suthep acted as caretaker prime minister while Abhisit was attending the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.

TPN legal adviser ML Tossapol Kaewtima said the group was deeply disappointed with Suthep. Since they could not find evidence to help with the case, the network would request the Cambodian court give them more time to find evidence and postpone its verdict on the two, who are charged with trespassing and espionage. They will also request bail for the two.

Tossapol said the TPN also planned to step up pressure on the government to meet their demands over disputes with Phnom Penh. The group would follow up on complaints submitted at various agencies and step up their campaign against the government.

In Davos, the prime minister told The Associated Press that protesters demanding the government revoke its pact with Cambodia over a border dispute had a right to make their demands, but he would do what was best for the country.

"We feel that the way we approach the border problems, and the problems — as far as the relationship with Cambodia is concerned — is best for the country, which is that we try to resolve whatever issues come up in a peaceful manner."

He stressed the importance of dealing with the issue peacefully. "So that we preserve good relations — we are both part of Asean — and at the same time we make sure that we protect Thai interests," he said. "So all we can do is to explain to them that we feel that this is the best approach and I am confident that the majority of Thai people support" the government.

Human Rights Commissioner Parinya Sirisarakarn said he would attend the court hearing of Veera and Ratri and would ask Veera about conditions of his detention to ensure his basic rights.

Meanwhile, Suthep threatened legal action yesterday against the People's Alliance for Democracy if they continue their protest by blocking roads and causing inconvenience to the public.

Suthep said he would wait for two to three days and decide - if there were not many protesters but the PAD blocked several roads causing traffic congestion, the government would definitely file a suit against them. He said there were only a few hundreds protesters during the day and about 2,000 protesters at night but the PAD blocked not one but several routes.

He urged the protesters to get on one side of the road to make way for motorists. He said blocking Rajdamnoen Klang Road, which the royal family uses, was totally inappropriate.

Responding to demands for the government to remove a Cambodian flag on a Thai temple near the Thai-Cambodian border, Suthep said the government would solve the problem through diplomatic means. "We have to take it easy. When you have neighbours, you should not threaten them too much. I believe Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen has probably been attacked by the media and his people over the PAD's threat,'' he said.

"I would like to send this message to PM Hun Sen that whatever the protesters said had nothing to do with the government. Both sides have to be patient and find solutions to the problems,'' he said.

Democrat Party MP for Bangkok Panich Vikitsreth said he negotiated with the PAD not to stop their protest but to explain the government's stand so that both sides understand each other better.

He said key leaders of the PAD's sub groups had a tendency to understand the government's point of view and there was only one group that had a different view of the government.

Responding to a threat by Chaiwat Sinsuwong, a leader of the Thailand Patriots Network, to team up with the red shirts to oust the government, Panich said no government wanted to lose territory but pushing Cambodians off Thai soil was something that had to be done without confrontation.

"I admit that I crossed the military operation line to the disputed area. We will know the answer [whether it is Thai or Cambodian soil] when we complete border demarcation,'' he said.

PAD spokesman Panthep Puapongpan said the fact PM Abhisit knew about the Cambodian flag being hoisted at the Thai temple for two days but failed to remove it showed his government was incompetent.

Cambodia has refused to remove the flag, claiming the area belongs to Cambodia according to the 1:200,000 square kilometre map.

He said the PM and his deputy must take responsibility if it accepts the Cambodian verdict on the case of the seven Thais since they were arrested on Thai soil.

-- The Nation 2011-01-30

[mkawish]

"I admit that I crossed the military operation line to the disputed area. We will know the answer [whether it is Thai or Cambodian soil] when we complete border demarcation,'' he said.

Panich did also vocalize to the public that he was absolutely and perfectly sure that at the time of the arrest....

that the 7 were standing on Thai territorial.... and as for the crossing of the imaginary Military Operation Line....

In all practical sense, there is never a MILITARY OPERATION LINE....in existence....

This term is concocted up by the Thai Foreign Ministry and Thai Foreign Affairs trying to mislead the Thai populace that ....

EVEN THOUGH THE 7 WERE PROVED BY THE LOCAL FARMERS THAT THE 7 WERE ARRESTED ON THEIR THAI FARMLANDS.... WITHIN THE THAI TERRITORIAL....

and then were dragged over at gun point to the Cambodian territory where photographs were taken by the Camb to prove to the world that the 7 indeed were arrested on Camb territory....

the 7 still at the moment of their arrest DID CROSS OVER THE THAI MILITARY OPERATION LINE....

thus rendering their arrest by the Camb legitimate.... and that the 7 Thai were at fault....

It is insane to the n^th degree.... to defend the Cambodian illegitimate crossing over to Thailand territorial to arrest the 7 Thai citizen on Thai soil....

But then.... such was the position of the Thai Ministry of Defense and the Thai Foreign Affairs Dept....

Betraying even their own Thai people....

These arrogant deputy ministers would never step down on their own.... unless.... and/or until.....

The defense of the Thai in Cambodian court has been practically almost humanly impossible.... for the Thai lawyers never receive any cooperation from deputy SuThep who was under order from the PM Apisit to provide assistance to the defense team during his absence to Devos trip....

according to the Thai defense team.... deputy SuThep has all but made the defense work even more difficult.... by not only failed to provide timely info per request....

but also attempted to stall the fact finding process of the defense team.... by not granting permission to the team to back tracking every step of the 7 journey and arrest.... to be used for defense purposes....

Once upon a time, just a couple of years ago, while Apisit govt was still occupying the Opposition Party.... deputy SuThem along with the PM Apisit and a host of other deputies.... often visited the yellows and used the yellows podium to denounce the Tuxsin fraudulent practices.... and touting the information from the yellows as accurate, factual and applicable....

But now that these people are in the power seat themselves.... the same info from the yellows are considered by these same individuals as.... impractical, untruthful and dangerous.... to the welfare of the state and the Thai population....

Edited January 30, 2011 by mkawish

[whybother]

"I admit that I crossed the military operation line to the disputed area. We will know the answer [whether it is Thai or Cambodian soil] when we complete border demarcation,'' he said.

Panich did also vocalize to the public that he was absolutely and perfectly sure that at the time of the arrest....

that the 7 were standing on Thai territorial.... and as for the crossing of the imaginary Military Operation Line....

In all practical sense, there is never a MILITARY OPERATION LINE....in existence....

This term is concocted up by the Thai Foreign Ministry and Thai Foreign Affairs trying to mislead the Thai populace that ....

<snip>

Actually, it looks like the term was concocted by Panich.

They did go through a military checkpoint, and were told that they shouldn't go further. Isn't that the "military operation line"? Is that when they entered the disputed area?

[bitterbatter]

Why not share? C'mon kids play nice. You could even rename it as Siam Land or The Twilight Zone. Let both sides be able to put up their little snack shops and either pay taxes to both sides or do like normal and no one pays taxes. Or you could call it The Neutral Zone, No guns allowed. Then the sign can say in both Thai and Khmer "We used to hurt each other here."

[sabaijai]

I read Thai news as well, in Thai, and nowhere I have read that the Thai government lays claim to Khao Phra Wihan.

sabaijai

Your Thai name appears to mean--contented.... ? Isn't that correct....?

Perhaps, you are fortunate enough also to be among one of the rare breeds of being blessed with higher Western education as well.... ?

Anyway, perhaps.... you are just not old enough yet.... (just joking, sir)

to assimilate a memorable emotional speech delivered by then Field Marshall SaRid ThaNaRutt....

on Thai people's claim on PraVeHarn temple.... :jap:

Perhaps, you were not in Thailand as yet....? Or....

Perhaps, you were just beginning to learn Thai language then....? Or....

Perhaps, you could not care less about Field Marshall SaRid.... for many reasons....?

Well.... succinctly, just because one does not read it in Thai or in any other languages....

that does not mean that it is not in existence .... or does it....?

Personally, I do attest that I heard it and viewed it several times....

and each time.... I felt chocked up.... wanting to cry.... on behalf of Thailand and Thai people....

On a personal note, be a little more diligent.... perhaps you could learn even more.... and

be even exponentially more levitated in enjoying Thai.... :jap:

Or perhaps, the 8212 post would achieve the ultimate declaration and acclamation of ....

Thai government lays claim to Khao Phra Wihan.

With all due respect.... Cheers mate....

FM Sarit made that statement before the ICJ ruling in 1962.

At any rate, last I checked his administration was no longer in power, so his opinion is not relevant.

[mkawish]

"I admit that I crossed the military operation line to the disputed area. We will know the answer [whether it is Thai or Cambodian soil] when we complete border demarcation,'' he said.

Panich did also vocalize to the public that he was absolutely and perfectly sure that at the time of the arrest....

that the 7 were standing on Thai territorial.... and as for the crossing of the imaginary Military Operation Line....

In all practical sense, there is never a MILITARY OPERATION LINE....in existence....

This term is concocted up by the Thai Foreign Ministry and Thai Foreign Affairs trying to mislead the Thai populace that ....

<snip>

Actually, it looks like the term was concocted by Panich.

They did go through a military checkpoint, and were told that they shouldn't go further. Isn't that the "military operation line"? Is that when they entered the disputed area?

It was SiRiChock, the PM Apisit's sidekick, who came up with the new word and definition--A MILITARY OPERATION LINE,

for Apisit to use during Apisit's televised explanation on what he understood happened when and where the 7 were arrested by the Camb....

The term actually confused the viewers even more as to where exactly were the 7 arrested and where exactly were they being photographed....?

The damning question for Apisit was, were the 7 arrested and photographed at the same location or not....?

It broke our hearts as we heard that the last 2, one man and one woman, were sentenced to several years imprisonment despite the fact that they were falsely arrested

on Thai soil but were dragged into Camb territory and photographed there....

It is a case of miscarriage justice.... imho....

[whybother]

...

They did go through a military checkpoint, and were told that they shouldn't go further. Isn't that the "military operation line"? Is that when they entered the disputed area?

It was SiRiChock, the PM Apisit's sidekick, who came up with the new word and definition--A MILITARY OPERATION LINE,

for Apisit to use during Apisit's televised explanation on what he understood happened when and where the 7 were arrested by the Camb....

The term actually confused the viewers even more as to where exactly were the 7 arrested and where exactly were they being photographed....?

The damning question for Apisit was, were the 7 arrested and photographed at the same location or not....?

It broke our hearts as we heard that the last 2, one man and one woman, were sentenced to several years imprisonment despite the fact that they were falsely arrested

on Thai soil but were dragged into Camb territory and photographed there....

It is a case of miscarriage justice.... imho....

"It was SiRiChock ... who came up with the new word and definition"

What did he mean by the term?

"falsely arrested on Thai soil but were dragged into Camb territory and photographed there.... "

In the video that they took, did that show the arrest? I don't remember seeing it. Were there other photos?