PAD Leader Chamlong Threatens To Raid Thailand Government House

[rubl]

What is it about getting up on stage in front of their supporters that makes red & yellow leaders lose all sense of responsibility for their words and the subsequent actions that follow?

In political parties, movements, businesses and (dare I say it) even families, there seems to be a distinct lack of leadership skills in this country.

A clear, official warning to Gen Chamlong and PAD seems to be called for 'we cannot and will not tolerate a storming / occupation of Government House'. Maybe time to amass some more police and/or setup checkpoints to help PAD concentrate on protesting only. I really wonder how much support this remainder of the 2008 PAD really has now?

[jdinasia]

Chamlong has the right to do anything he wishes, he is godfathered. Well godfathered.

The Yellow are untouchable, just because they are Yellow.

A tip to the robbers, wear a yellow shirt and your actions will be automatically justified.

Posts like this show a lack of understanding of politics in Thailand. What we know is that Chamlong will probably act on his words. We can also assume that he will not be granted access to Gov't house.

to Random --- forcing entry by weight of sheer numbers is not "inherently violent" it is however civil disobedience on a level that I do not think the current government will allow.

to Random --- your wishing the military to commit extra-judicial murder suggests more about you than it does about who you think killed Seh Daeng

I disagree, forcing entry anywhere shows a level of violence, it is impossible to force your way anywhere without using force, and force needs a level of violence attached to it otherwise it would not be force, they are not just going to open the gates and be allowed in, violence or the threat of violence will be present. We are talking about physical force here, not mental coercion or blackmail. Is it just civil disobedience though? it is more, it is criminal trespass, it is 'riot' depending on numbers, it is burglary by entering property or part of property as a trespasser with certain intentions.

as for what you think about me, to be perfectly honest I don't really care what you think about me, I would rather just see consistency in the way things are handled so we can all be clear there is no bias. If that means the army removing this instigator then all well and good as far as I am concerned,

Random ----

1) Sorry but force and violence are not the same things. By sheer mass of numbers you can overwhelm an enemy without firing a shot or swinging a club.

2) Your suggestion that Chamlong should be treated like Seh Daeng is silly on 2 points beyond the fact that only your opinion places the guilt at the feet of the army.

First they are not equivalent situations. Seh Daeng was an active duty officer in rebellion against his lawful superiors. Secondly, what you propose would suggest that the extra-judicial murders of ALL of the red-shirt leaders would be acceptable. Chamlong hasn't said he will send in his ronin. Chamlong hasn't threatened violence.

The stated goal of capturing Government house could be done by simply pushing forwards, ignoring the violence done to them. Perhaps you never have seen what non-violent civil disobedience looks like but there are plenty of examples.

Edit --- Random ignores the public threats of grenade attacks on the PAD made by Seh Daeng BEFORE the attacks happened. (In each instance) Selective reasoning is alive and well.

Edited January 27, 2011 by jdinasia

[pedro01]

I have to laugh at the shouts of double standards. Especially as it relates to airport occupation vs Ratchaprasong.

You do all realise that the current government wasn't actually governing suring the airport seizure, right?

You do realie when the yellows were getting their legs blown off by 'smoke grenades' that the current government wasnt in then,either?

Red shirts = idiots.

Yellow shirts = idiots.

Idiots at the top and idiots following them. None of them are capable of doing anything positive for Thailand right now.

Let's hope that any attempt to storm Government House is met with a swift and stern response. I believe it will.

[scotbeve]

Chamlong Srimuang

I thought he styled himself on Gandhian principles of non-violence and passive resistance.

Only when convenient

Pretty much the same as the other times he put the country in the poo!

[whybother]

Last time the took the Government house it was peaceful. I think it gave one accident with a broken arm. As long as the police is peaceful it keeps peaceful. To recall when the PAD wanted to block Parliament the police was very violent but the PAD kept peaceful (beside some minor incidents).

The worst thing about your post is that I genuinely think that you believe it.

One of your fellow red leaning members believes that the red shirts "peacefully" stormed the Asean summit hotel. I think the yellow shirts probably "peacefully" stormed government house in the same way.

[Buchholz]

A clear, official warning to Gen Chamlong and PAD seems to be called for 'we cannot and will not tolerate a storming / occupation of Government House'.

Done.

The Metropolitan Police Spokesman in the other paper.

[webfact]

PAD acting like cry baby: Kasit

By The Nation

Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya on Thursday branded the People's Alliance for Democracy as a cry baby for making demands deemed unreasonable on border issues with Cambodia.

"Integrity hinges on prudence and maturity; don's act like a baby and allow feelings to cloud judgement," he said.

Kasit said the government will not bow the PAD's demands for the cancellation of the 2000 memorandum of understanding with Cambodia, the withdrawal from the Unesco's World Heritage Committee and the expulsion of Cambodian citizens from Thai territory.

He made his remarks in the interview aired by Nation Channel.

Thailand has its international obligations under the United Nations and Asean to see to it that Southeast Asia becomes a borderless community and that Cambodia prosperity is in Thailand's mutual benefit.

The two countries are neighbours co-depending on one another, he said, questioning the merit of the PAD's call for the use of force to resolve the border dispute.

"The Abhisit Vejjajiva government is not prone to use force nor to insult the neighbouring country," he said.

Thai and Cambodia share the same heritage and the ties between the two countries should be based on common culture and traditions instead of picking on differences, he said.

"Instead of confrontation, the 700kilometer-long borders, including rich resources in the sea, should be made to serve the people's aspirations in two countries," he said.

He said he had not changed, arguing even though he used to join the PAD-led protest in 2008, he could not comply to what he saw as petulent demands from the PAD.

He deemed it inappropriate to invoke international relations as a bargaining leverage to advance domestic political agenda, he said.

-- The Nation 2011-01-27

[Edwin Buurman]

Well said Mr. Kasit.

Thank you

[webfact]

PAD waiting for PM's overture

The People's Alliance for Democracy is waiting for an offoer for talks from the prime minister, its leader Chamlong Srimuang said on Thursday, the third day of protest in connection with the Thai-Cambodian border dispute.

"If the prime minister makes an offer, then the PAD will convene a meeting and respond," he said.

Chamlong said the PAD will carry on protesting despite the police's threat to impose the state of emergency.

"I don't fear emergency rule, otherwise I won't be out in the streets," he said.

PAD spokesmand Panthep Phuaphongphan said PM Abhisit Vejjajiva might try to elude his responsibility for the territorial loss to Cambodia by dissolving the House in April.

-- The Nation 2011-01-27

[spiderleghead]

Last time the took the Government house it was peaceful. I think it gave one accident with a broken arm. As long as the police is peaceful it keeps peaceful. To recall when the PAD wanted to block Parliament the police was very violent but the PAD kept peaceful (beside some minor incidents).

The worst thing about your post is that I genuinely think that you believe it.

One of your fellow red leaning members believes that the red shirts "peacefully" stormed the Asean summit hotel. I think the yellow shirts probably "peacefully" stormed government house in the same way.

when the yellows were being attacked by the police i was there at the time, walking out of my university. i nipped home and got my camera. the yellows were more then happy to let me in to shoot photos.

to be fair the yellows were far more passive for the duration of their stay than the reds were for theirs, but not to take sides eh...

the yellows went crazy when they stole the bus and rammed through the police trucks that served as barriers.

from watching the demonstration for a while, then seeing the troops of police shooting tear gas straight at the protestors instead of towards or over their heads, and also seeing the mysterious men in black who were firing hand guns quite deliberately into the crowd of yellows who were mainly armed with sticks and such non balistic weapons - it seemed to be fair retaliation to ram them.

then the way the army were against the reds, which i followed as well, driving around the smalls sois to try to keep an eye on what was happening, taking photos of both injured soldiers and reds. looking at the amount of ammunition that was fired and the amount of holes in the monument, the amount of holes in the cars that were shot up at the end of khao san road, it was not surprising that so many people died in the clashes.

but is it OK to point out that in any country where there are huge differences of opinion and feeling that have been settled by politics, the preceeding events have caused a lot of bloodshed. this is in no way defensive of the attrocities that have happened, just pointing out that all of our countries' histories are riddled with bloody battles such as these.

the difference now is that these events are captured using digital media and so easily given to so many eyes to see that which is the perspective of one

but my honest opinion is that all sides are full of crap and there will never be an end to this tittle tattle that is perpetuated by some force that insists on driving this country apart unless the real people who live here are given the freedom of information that would ultimately empower them and take away some of the power of the overlords.

[Scott]

There have been numerous posts deleted for a variety of infractions. I am very disappointed that so many posters chose to start threatening and flaming others for their opinion. A number of posters on both sides of the fence had some interesting points. I tried to edited out the violations to rules, but in the end this was no longer possible.

Please try to keep it civil. We will be watching the forum and warnings will be issued. You can respond to the content of the post, not to the personality of the poster.

Thanks.

[hoaker]

This is an act to make PM lose face. I am sure he understands the consequences of the 3 demands. If the 3 demands were excuted, Cambodia will just step back and let this happen???? of course not. There will be a war!!!

[Credo]

The entire political situation is getting very confusing.  I have friends, both Thai and Farang, who were rabidly red or yellow.  The Red's hated Abhisit and the Yellow's loved him.  They couldn't even sit in the same room.  Now there has been an entire flip-flop.  Some of the Yellows no longer like the yellows and some of the Reds think they are pretty much OK.  

It feels like someone has built a fence on water!  

No matter what, I would not underestimate Chamlong.  

[KeyserSoze01]

I though that inciting violence was a criminal offense.

Seems that was the same thing, that got the guy who went on about burning down Central World, a short jail sentence.

Who is inciting violence, beside the forum here?

Sitting, speaking, singing at the government house is not violent.

Chamlong threatens to raid Government House

Hmm, sitting, speaking and singing, right.

No need to incite violence on TV, the Thais are quite capable of it without some long-nose falang butting in.

[Fookhaht]

When he does that, I anticipate that he will then be nursing some physical injuries.

The government isn't going to repeat the strategic errors of past administrations.

Unlike the army? 18 coups in modern times? Every one branded a strategic error (and of course, public relations disaster) by both military and government analysts afterwards?

[lovelomsak]

I feel everything is going along just great no real problems. Everything is normal. Maybe only slight problems with foreign investments leaving rapidly,tourism dropping more, and ties with Cambodia strained. But hey,thats nothing just another days work. Also will probaly help get an election quicker.

[Emptyset]

you weren't there, or? It is between bending the facts till they are almost a lie and simply not true. Like the openly shooting: hired thugs beat elderly PAD women with with with wooden clubs. A faction of the PAD shoot at them with their legal sidearms, no one died, no one reported it to the police.

So there were paid thugs to beat up women.

There were either police or military PAD supporter who helped them

Chamlong wasn't involved at all and it is not "shooting at people on the streets".

Please don't repeat the red propaganda lies without checking them first.

What elderly woman? I haven't heard about that. However, someone did die, one of the pro-government supporters:

<br class="clear-all"> "Police are still collecting evidence they hope will lead them to the killer. They said demonstrators were not proving helpful. Narongsak Kobthaisong, 55, a Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship (DAAD) supporter, died of head injuries sustained during Tuesday morning's street riots. His nephew, Palakorn Singhaklangpol, 42, a Kanchanaburi village deputy headman, wants his uncle's death to be the last one as a result of political divisiveness. He blamed no one for the fatality, saying he knew was difficult to maintain order in large crowds of people with differing ideologies." http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/09/04/national/national_30082502.php

Not shooting on the streets?

"Some in the crowd, armed with two by fours and rods and slingshots, began to run towards the PAD's sparsely guarded outer perimeter. The PAD guards manning the perimeter ran and the crowd chased them, throwing aside metal barriers. The men were screaming with rage as they ran at the PAD. One car window was broken and the pro-government crowd roared. But as the few dozen young men in the vanguard of the pro-government crowd neared the PAD just after 1am, the close ranks of the PAD suddenly roared and came running out in a full charge, plowing into the pro-government crowd who were not only outnumbered but also ill-equipped to defend against the charge.

Simultaneously a volley of gunfire erupted from the PAD, and at least one pro-government protestor fell immediately, eyewitnesses from the pro-government group said. But Thai media reported that a PAD member had been killed.

After an initial shot, more shots were heard at random intervals as the struggle surged back and forth for about two or three minutes.

The shots were clearly coming from the PAD ranks. Bullets zinged into the trees above me and another journalist from Bloomberg; we were the only foreign journalists there.

At the gunfire, I shouted 'bullet'. Dan Ten Kate and I both ducked and ran with the crowd. Many of them were climbing over walls and trying to break into nearby buildings to get away." http://blogs.straitstimes.com/2008/9/2/clash-of-the-thai-tans

Now, the DAAD did decide to attack the PAD, sure. But I think the PAD were quite capable of defeating the DAAD without the use of firearms... you make it sound like the DAAD were attacking a bunch of unarmed old women, and not types like this:

Not sure why we have to go through this again all the time but people keep repeating PAD propaganda without checking it first. Even if DAAD supporters were "hired" it looks to me like one set of "hired thugs" against another set. It doesn't look like brave PAD guards who had no choice but to fire to defend old women. Both sides were well prepared for violence: http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?newsid=1220325323&grpid=01&catid=01

[Bagwan]

What a infantile and uncivilised country this is. My heart bleeds for Thailand. Everybody shouting and nobody listening.

Some of the posters here are not much better than the thugs who want to take to the streets. Polite discourse, like the tourists, is noticeable by its absence.

[Buchholz]

you weren't there, or? It is between bending the facts till they are almost a lie and simply not true. Like the openly shooting: hired thugs beat elderly PAD women with with with wooden clubs. A faction of the PAD shoot at them with their legal sidearms, no one died, no one reported it to the police.

So there were paid thugs to beat up women.

There were either police or military PAD supporter who helped them

Chamlong wasn't involved at all and it is not "shooting at people on the streets".

Please don't repeat the red propaganda lies without checking them first.

Now, the DAAD did decide to attack the PAD, sure.

Thanks for the reminder.

Not sure why we have to go through this again all the time

I'm not sure, either, as what I replied to you 8 days ago is again applicable to your latest

The PAD was under attack for a full two years prior to either of your references.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/adsearch.php?keyword=pad+rally&page=106

Edited January 27, 2011 by Buchholz

[Emptyset]

Not sure why we have to go through this again all the time

I'm not sure, either, as what I replied to you 8 days ago is again applicable to your latest

The PAD was under attack for a full two years prior to either of your references.

http://www.nationmul...+rally&page=106

I'm responding to someone who clearly has the wrong information. I'm just wondering why people insist on posting things which are clearly wrong and were widely covered in the media at the time i.e. saying things like "no one died". That's not the account I've seen from anywhere else and I don't know where this information comes from. Anyway, I don't see how your link is relevant to anything. To me it seems misleading, PAD were "under attack" for two "full" years. Really? Well, considering they weren't even active for a year and a half under the junta... correct me if I'm wrong, but if they were I don't remember it. And when were they actually attacked? Your links relate to threats that PAD received in CM in 2006. I only remember a couple of times they were physically attacked (one at Paragon which wasn't really PAD anyway). So to substantiate your claim that they were "under attack" for "a full two years", can you post articles that show that they were physically attacked throughout these two years? Instead of articles which show they were threatened in CM in 2006. And even if they were under attack for two years, how does that refute my response to h90?

[Ricardo]

"for a year and a half under the junta ... correct me if I'm wrong"

The junta-appointed government was from just after the September-2006 coup up to the December-2007 elections, 15 months not 18, and the junta itself only ruled directly for a few days during/after the coup. :jap:

[Buchholz]

I'm responding to someone who clearly has the wrong information. I'm just wondering why people insist on posting things which are clearly wrong and were widely covered in the media at the time i.e. saying things like "no one died".

He didn't say no one died ever during all this time. He was pointing to a specific incident where, indeed, no one died.

That's not the account I've seen from anywhere else and I don't know where this information comes from. Anyway, I don't see how your link is relevant to anything.

It's relevant in the context that if the group was under attack for 2 years, it shouldn't be surprising that they tire of it and begin fighting back.

To me it seems misleading, PAD were "under attack" for two "full" years. Really? Well, considering they weren't even active for a year and a half under the junta... correct me if I'm wrong, but if they were I don't remember it. And when were they actually attacked? Your links relate to threats that PAD received in CM in 2006. I only remember a couple of times they were physically attacked (one at Paragon which wasn't really PAD anyway). So to substantiate your claim that they were "under attack" for "a full two years", can you post articles that show that they were physically attacked throughout these two years? Instead of articles which show they were threatened in CM in 2006.

You are the one that added "physically" to my comment that wasn't there... If you don't think threats and intimidation are not considered as being under attack, you may wish to review the legal ramifications of criminal charges like assault and other similar offenses.

Still, if you go back further in the linked list of articles beyond the Chiang Mai incident, you can find articles such as:

Premier's supporters try to attack his rivals

August 17, 2006

with "Premier" of course meaning Thaksin at the time, and the attempted attack meaning your "physical" attack

.

[Emptyset]

You are the one that added "physically" to my comment that wasn't there... If you don't think threats and intimidation are not considered as being under attack, you may wish to review the legal ramifications of criminal charges like assault and other similar offenses.

Still, if you go back further in the linked list of articles beyond the Chiang Mai incident, you can find articles such as:

Premier's supporters try to attack his rivals

August 17, 2006

with "Premier" of course meaning Thaksin at the time, and the attempted attack meaning your "physical" attack

Well, the way you put it made it seem like you meant physically attacked. I don't see the relevance of this anyway. So you're saying the PAD had guards because they thought (with some justification) they might be attacked? I'm not disagreeing. But it was also to fight the police etc, not just rival protesters.

[geriatrickid]

I anticipate that if the police are unable to maintain order and prevent an occupation of government facilities and disorder, the army's command in Bangkok will quickly dispatch special forces and Queens Guard units to resolve the matter, whether or not the current administration approves of such action. Any activity that mimics last April's violence will undercut the semblance of a civilian government. The last thing the army wants is to lose a compliant partner and to be seen as planning another coup.. A strong approach will be seen to demonstrate that the PM is in charge and that public order will be maintained. Thailand cannot afford any more public displays of insurrection.

I hope I am wrong because the next uprising will be met with a harsh smackdown and there will be blood. These uprisings are appearing in many unstable countries throughout the world. Tunisia, Yemen, Egypt etc. Thaialnd isn't that far from the tipping point. Reds, PAD, Yellows, Blues all need to take a chill pill.

[kimamey]

If a country has the word Democratic in their name then usually they aren't. It seems like Democracy might indicate the same in political parties.

[JWJ]

Mister Chamlong you where till the airport closure my hero.

I adored the PAD's style of protest. It reminded me to the "Salt mars" of Mohadma Ghandi. This timme the PAD actions demands brings us close to a war with innocent people getting harmed or killed. The economic damage to Thailand will be great. And the PAD's demands are unreasonable. In Europe we have had a few unlogical borderlines.there we solved with some land swappes. Couldn't that be a solution here to. Just a suggestion. In that cases noone loses faces and lives are spared.

Before the airport closure the PAD were involved in the killing of people and openly shooting at people on the streets, closing part of the city, trying to storm parliament, running police over in their vehicles, and bombing on Sukhothai road in a jeep cherokee, also building and storing bombs at government house, among numerous other crimes.

Strange hero you chose to associate yourself with.

Agreed.

If the yellow loved Thailand, they would stop instigating war, coups and mob rule.

Why not start a political party and run for election?

Because they are a minority of privileged , elite Thais that cant win.

Mob rule is all they have

[whybother]

Agreed.

If the yellow loved Thailand, they would stop instigating war, coups and mob rule.

Why not start a political party and run for election?

Because they are a minority of privileged , elite Thais that cant win.

Mob rule is all they have

They have ... the NPP. Not that they are going to win a seat, let alone the whole election.

[rubl]

If a country has the word Democratic in their name then usually they aren't. It seems like Democracy might indicate the same in political parties.

For countries I agree. Not too many of those left, probably got too obvious

Now political parties with 'democracy' or 'democratic' or such like in their name are thirteen in a dozen. Lots of examples to be found in Europe, even in the US of A there's one

[Samuian]

I have to laugh at the shouts of double standards. Especially as it relates to airport occupation vs Ratchaprasong.

.....edit to shorten to the essence....

has anyone of the yellow crowd shouted hatred at Suvannabhum, seen any sharp tipped bamboo stakes, tire barriers, Molotov Cocktails, sling shots, call for violence, threads to set Bangkok ablaze(which finally happened) ....

open your wide shut eyes mate and then post!

[Roadman]

I anticipate that if the police are unable to maintain order and prevent an occupation of government facilities and disorder, the army's command in Bangkok will quickly dispatch special forces and Queens Guard units to resolve the matter, whether or not the current administration approves of such action. Any activity that mimics last April's violence will undercut the semblance of a civilian government. The last thing the army wants is to lose a compliant partner and to be seen as planning another coup.. A strong approach will be seen to demonstrate that the PM is in charge and that public order will be maintained. Thailand cannot afford any more public displays of insurrection.

I hope I am wrong because the next uprising will be met with a harsh smackdown and there will be blood. These uprisings are appearing in many unstable countries throughout the world. Tunisia, Yemen, Egypt etc. Thaialnd isn't that far from the tipping point. Reds, PAD, Yellows, Blues all need to take a chill pill.

Good solid sensible post. Chill pill or spill...