U.S. SAYS DETENTION OF AMERICAN DIPLOMAT IN PAKISTAN VIOLATES INTERNATIONAL LAWS

[News_Editor]

U.S. SAYS DETENTION OF AMERICAN DIPLOMAT IN PAKISTAN VIOLATES INTERNATIONAL LAWS

2011-01-29 17:11:07 GMT+7 (ICT)

ISLAMABAD (BNO NEWS) -- The United States says the detention of an American diplomat in Pakistan violates international laws, saying he has immunity.

-- © BNO News All rights reserved 2011-01-29

[ukrules]

Just yesterday I read that this guy is a 'security guard' (not diplomat) who was carrying an unauthorised weapon at the time of the incident.

Edited January 29, 2011 by ukrules

[Jingthing]

They'd be crazy to risk all the US foreign aid there (which mostly goes down the drain, corruption, to a government that hates the US) over this one Schlemeil.

[koheesti]

Throughout the world, people with diplomatic passports are given immunity in the countries where they serve.

[hammered]

Since when did the US government care about international law? Iraq war just for a start. Not to mention a fair few illegal bombings. Mmm a few kidnappings. A load of torture.

Edited January 29, 2011 by hammered

[jdinasia]

Since when did the US government care about international law? Iraq war just for a start. Not to mention a fair few illegal bombings. Mmm a few kidnappings. A load of torture.

Pretty similar to a lot of other governments, huh?

[softgeorge]

Since when did the US government care about international law? Iraq war just for a start. Not to mention a fair few illegal bombings. Mmm a few kidnappings. A load of torture.

I'd be careful you are not allowed to say anything against the above mentioned country on here. Positive comments only are allowed.

[powderpuff]

Torture is defined as taking away their Fruit Loops & not letting them watch The Simpsons.

But plotting to kill us is OK.

[koheesti]

Diplomatic Immunity has been around for centuries. How some of you are unaware of it is amazing. Maybe you should consider running for Vice President of the USA.

[MJP]

Throughout the world, people with diplomatic passports are given immunity in the countries where they serve.

I'm surprised about this collar to be honest. I thought this regime was Americas poodle. They'll put on a dog and pony show and send him home.

[elshaheen]

Since when did the US government care about international law? Iraq war just for a start. Not to mention a fair few illegal bombings. Mmm a few kidnappings. A load of torture.

The United States of America has no respect for International Law concerning itself and ITS favored list of Allies. U.S. of A, has been one of the biggest hypocrites’ of International Law, including China, and the U.K. It’s been openly revealed over Wikileaks.

If the man gets executed or be headed, so what. So, what sue Pakistan.

[koheesti]

Since when did the US government care about international law? Iraq war just for a start. Not to mention a fair few illegal bombings. Mmm a few kidnappings. A load of torture.

The United States of America has no respect for International Law concerning itself and ITS favored list of Allies. U.S. of A, has been one of the biggest hypocrites' of International Law, including China, and the U.K. It's been openly revealed over Wikileaks.

If the man gets executed or be headed, so what. So, what sue Pakistan.

can you post a link the the Wikileak that supports your claim?

Edited January 29, 2011 by koheesti

[geriatrickid]

Since when did the US government care about international law? Iraq war just for a start. Not to mention a fair few illegal bombings. Mmm a few kidnappings. A load of torture.

The United States of America has no respect for International Law concerning itself and ITS favored list of Allies. U.S. of A, has been one of the biggest hypocrites' of International Law, including China, and the U.K. It's been openly revealed over Wikileaks.

If the man gets executed or be headed, so what. So, what sue Pakistan.

It's been revealed on wikileaks? And that's the basis for making an accusation? What has been published by wikileaks are excerpts from diplomatic cables that are often out of date and taken out of context.

The issue here is whether or not the accused will be protected by an underlying diplomatic agreement, not the US being Satan or being gringos.

You and others racing to accuse the USA of crimes have conveniently forgotten the circumstances of this case. It has been reported by multiple sources that the shooting was in response to an alleged attempted robbery by two alleged assailants who are reported to have had criminal histories. If the accused has diplomatic protection the law is very clear.

There are multiple precedents that will act are in favour of the accused, if he is indeed protected under the Vienna convention. Here's a reminder of some horrible events

-2001 a Russian embassy worker was driving drunk in Ottawa and ran over a woman walking her dog. Both the dog and woman were killed. The Russian invoked protection. He was a driver for the embassy if I am not mistaken.

- Last December an Indian working in the economic affairs section of the London high commission was sought by the UK for domestic abuse. His wife had run terrified from their home seeking the protection of neighbours. The woman is now in protection, while the man has returned to India.

-Anyone remember the December 2009 scandal with the alleged drunk Romanian Charge d'Affaires who was in a hit and run killing a pedestrian? Singapore tried to prosecute but the Romanians refused to allow it. He was charged with vehicular homiscide in Romania but the case disappeared. The diplomat also has a $600,000SG judgement pending against him for injuries another pedestrian suffered. Does anyone think that will get paid?

Are these events any less gruesome than the Pakistan incident? This isn't about the USA. No diplomat or employee working for an embassy will accept a foreign posting without the protection. What is also forgotten in the discussion is that there is a major exposure for diplomats working in Pakistan and any effort made to strip one of them of Vienna Convention protection impacts all of them. Every country, even those that loathe the USA, will be backing the USA on this one.

[EnSvenskTiger]

They will NOT!

Tiger

[wolf5370]

Two threads - same discussion? Why?

Yes diplomatic immunity would mean that if they (he) were diplomats or diplomatic admin/tech staff, they (he) can not be detained, but this doesn't cover everyone who works in an embassy or consulate. Foreign consular staff can be arrested and detained in the USA, as only the above are covered with no arrest/no detention protection.

Muslim countries also have certain exclusions under the Vienna Convention, not sure if/how that comes into play here either.

Pakistan, or anyone, also has the right - even against a diplomat - of stopping a crime taking place (they don't have to sit back and watch) and (apparantly) he was carrying an illegal weapon.

The USA, or anyone, can not simply decide that anyone working for them is immune from prosecution - it does not work that way - it's international agreement, not one-sided American wishful thinking that takes matters. If Pakistan did not think they had a case, and legal coverage, then (as said above, given their current position with regard to American diplomatic relations) one would think it befits their current modus operandi to submit to American will and simply send him home.

Edited January 29, 2011 by wolf5370

[flying]

Just yesterday I read that this guy is a 'security guard' (not diplomat) who was carrying an unauthorised weapon at the time of the incident.

Do you have a link ukrules? I am curious as to what was this man's true position. These reports all seem a bit conflicted.

Thanks

[ukrules]

Do you have a link ukrules? I am curious as to what was this man's true position. These reports all seem a bit conflicted.

Thanks

I read the articles on news.google.co.uk, there's over 1000 articles on this now so I don't have a link to the original one but here's a couple I came across which you might find interesting, especially the second one :

Consulate Staffer shoots people

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-pakistan-shooting-20110129,0,6272074.story

This one is controversial - it says the consulate is lying and he's a black ops spy type

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/01/27/gordon-duff-and-raja-mujtaba-diplomat-held-by-pakistan-said-to-be-black-ops-contractor/

Davis, driving a rented car with phony license plates, loaded with automatic weapons and advanced Israeli built surveillance gear, was heading toward Mozang Chongi, a market district in Lahore that has been the scene of terror bombings in the past, bombings local residents suspect American contractors such as Davis have had a role in.

[chuckd]

He has diplomatic immunity if he entered Pakistan on a black passport. Blue passports are for non diplomatic immunity types. He can only obtain a black passport if he is a legal representative of the US government, and not all of them can obtain one.

Having spent many years as a blue passport holder working in the Middle East, I can assure you that one watches his surroundings at all times. If two guys on a motorbike have weapons I would have assumed they were up to no good and wanted to take me down as a trophy. I would do whatever it took to get out of the danger or defend myself appropriately. I couldn't carry a weapon but I did have body armor available if needed.

I had one employee assassinated and lost another friend and a couple of acquaintances in bombings. I know how the Consular rep must have felt.

It isn't paranoia if they really are trying to kill you.

[koheesti]

I am curious as to what was this man's true position.

I doubt his true position would ever be released if it were you-know-what.

[bangkokrick]

Throughout the world, people with diplomatic passports are given immunity in the countries where they serve.

It has been stated in most of the news reports that this guy does not have diplomatic immunity, so they have very right to detain him for the murder of 2 of their citizens, using an unauthorised gun.

[flying]

I read the articles on news.google.co.uk, there's over 1000 articles on this now so I don't have a link to the original one but here's a couple I came across which you might find interesting, especially the second one :

Consulate Staffer shoots people

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-pakistan-shooting-20110129,0,6272074.story

This one is controversial - it says the consulate is lying and he's a black ops spy type

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/01/27/gordon-duff-and-raja-mujtaba-diplomat-held-by-pakistan-said-to-be-black-ops-contractor/

Davis, driving a rented car with phony license plates, loaded with automatic weapons and advanced Israeli built surveillance gear, was heading toward Mozang Chongi, a market district in Lahore that has been the scene of terror bombings in the past, bombings local residents suspect American contractors such as Davis have had a role in.

Thanks ukrules.....very interesting

That quote about his car & the weaponry is a bit outside normal diplomatic duties eh?

Couple that with his obvious shooting abilities & it does make one wonder.

If I had to guess I would say blackwater....AKA: XE Services employee

This man in the picture does not look very diplomat like

Edited January 30, 2011 by flying

[Wallaby]

This is from a few hours ago. Odd how they are saying there is no US diplomat with his name.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail.aspx?ID=3646&Cat=13&dt=1/30/2011

[softgeorge]

I read the articles on news.google.co.uk, there's over 1000 articles on this now so I don't have a link to the original one but here's a couple I came across which you might find interesting, especially the second one :

Consulate Staffer shoots people

http://www.latimes.c...0,6272074.story

This one is controversial - it says the consulate is lying and he's a black ops spy type

http://www.veteranst...ops-contractor/

Davis, driving a rented car with phony license plates, loaded with automatic weapons and advanced Israeli built surveillance gear, was heading toward Mozang Chongi, a market district in Lahore that has been the scene of terror bombings in the past, bombings local residents suspect American contractors such as Davis have had a role in.

Thanks ukrules.....very interesting

That quote about his car & the weaponry is a bit outside normal diplomatic duties eh?

Couple that with his obvious shooting abilities & it does make one wonder.

If I had to guess I would say blackwater....AKA: XE Services employee

This man in the picture does not look very diplomat like

Maybe if he had a shave he might.

[ukrules]

This is from a few hours ago. Odd how they are saying there is no US diplomat with his name.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail.aspx?ID=3646&Cat=13&dt=1/30/2011

Apparently holding a diplomatic passport doesn't mean you get diplomatic immunity as a matter of course. You have to be accepted and confirmed as a diplomat by the host country. I suspect this is where the confusion is arising.

This guy is obviously some kind of government agent going about his business, it's too bad he got caught up in this robbery incident (if the story is true).

What to believe ? Well these people all lie for a living so I wouldn't believe much of what they say.

This story has information about the pre-declaration of diplomats :

http://pakistaniat.com/2011/01/30/raymond-davis/

Edited January 30, 2011 by ukrules

[metisdead]

Please continue this discussion in the other thread running here:

//Closed//