Suradit Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) I understand that the UK Government, Australian Government, - and the USA Government - may indeed have their protocols to follow with reference to how they can assist their own people here in times of need. Particularly, - as someone already posted above, - if they are not known. However, it IS the responsibility of the Governments of our respective countries to make a stand and be strong with the Thai's if they are being cruel or abusive. What were the Thai police supposed to do? Would it have been better for him and the people he would have encountered to just put him back on the street? Were they supposed to come up with money to have him treated in a private facility, something not available readily to their own citizens? Possibly they should have paid for his air evacuation (since given his condition even if they had known about his Emirates ticket, the airline would never have boarded him? There really are no Thai government institutions designed to provide charitable relief for every foreign whacko who goes round the bend in Pattaya and as a recent newspaper article pointed out, some hospitals in Thailand are taking a financial hit providing care for destitute foreigners. This can and should be made a media piece of material in their country's to deal with. It is absolutely disgraceful that a private citizen had to do this. Why is it disgraceful for his fellow citizens to provide for him? If anything this ought to motivate foreign resident nationals to institute plans for dealing with this sort of thing should there be further cases similar to this amongst expats. People on this site should start bombarding these 'servants of the people' (because that is who they are), - and tell them that there are due processes for dealing with them. The passports alone - in all three countries mentioned above - provide a warranty of safe passage and protection. If someone breaks the law, - then of course they have to be subject to the 'laws of the land'. But if the Thai Government / Police are acting improperly, - Being a British public servant does not mean one needs to serve all of the public whatever their needs wherever they are. If that were the case then every postman or traffic warden should be prepared to transport people to hospital or remove snow from the streets. You keep implying the Thai government or police were acting improperly. Thailand is not some UN refugee camp for derelict farang. If the British embassy was notified and the local expat/British community were well aware of his plight, then it's shamelful, but not entirely unexpected, that they did not react out of compassion regardless of any alleged legal responsibility. The British government comes a lot closer to a nanny state than many others, but even it can hardly be expected to look after every Brit in every situation in every country on the planet. I don't know about the British passport, but the US passport simply includes a request from the Secretary of State that I be allowed safe passage and basic legal protection. No warranty. In fact the State Department continually warns people travelling outside the US that it is your responsibility to abide by the laws of the country you are visiting and they can only offer very limited assistance if you screw up. Edited February 2, 2011 by Suradit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asiawatcher Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Well Mr. Drummond, you have lost a few friends here in Pattaya with this paragraph above. You're assuming he had friends to lose. And you are supposed to be a reporter, or an opinionated columnist? I think we need more choices. [snip] He certainly has a reputation as a stringer and is neither a journo (of any credibility) or an opinionated columnist. Just riding up on a story ??? But the results needed to be broadcast so I will think he may get a scratch on the pad for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soihok Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) Good post Suradit, hit the nail on the head Edited February 2, 2011 by soihok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soihok Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Actually I have. That's why I know that the most important thing necessary to heal is a good safe environment and good nutrition, both of which he was deprived of. I didn't mean to make it sound unsympathetic, just curious. NO one deserves this kind of treatment, it is ridiculous. I hope those police get reprimanded. He ought to press charges against them. Press charges against the Thai police, you aving a larf or wot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldgit Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I think I should make it clear again that the expression 'nutter/' was only used by an Embassy employee in a bar and he had nothing to do with this case. This is certainly not the official line of the British Embassy. I included it because that appears to be at least some of the gossip in Wireless Road. And Richard had indeed lost his faculties. I appreciate you clarifying the point Andrew, but nevertheless Embassy employees, at whatever grade, should not make throw away remarks like this, be it in a bar in Soi Nana or in the confines of The Foreign Correspondents Club. Diplomats and other staff know only too well that remarks like this will often be quoted out of context even if said to a friend and in fun, look at what happened to the Sky Sport presenters recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude007 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 good luck for the man ... and very embarrassing for the British Embassy! What kind of people is working there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 As I constantly tell newbie Brits, in Thailand you are on your own, never look to the Embassy for help, unless you are of VIP status, then they will crawl all over you. Actually, this is not true. Most embassies will help you out for certain reasons, such as Medical. Last year around August of 2009, I had a very aggressive form of cancer called Hodgkin’s Lymphoma which switched from Non-Hodgkin’s to Hodgkin’s. A Catholic friend of mine in the U.S. contacted her congress representative to then contacted the U.S. Embassy in Thailand. I was instructed me to go there ASAP. I went to them. I had been on over stay for like 3 years and had lost a lot of weight. They paid for my overstay fine and my plane ticket and voided out my current passport. They got everything cleared up with Thai immigration officials. Within 2 days, I was headed back to my hometown where I underwent 9 months of chemo / radiation. In conclusion. If the situation is a life threating medical condition. They will help you. Once you arrive back home, your passport has been voided out or holes punched through it. All the money you barrowed has to be paid back in full before you can reapply for a new passport. My new one came back with a 10 year valid period. Glad to hear the US Embassy helped you out when in need and that you have cleared everything with the State Dept. I hope you have made a full recovery. I note that the US Embassy was given a push by a congressman to do something about your case. I believe that the British Embassy would also have been more responsive to Mr Hewitt's life threatening and degrading situation, if there had been a nudge from an MP in the UK, or even a question in the House at prime minister's question time. US embassies are also much better funded and staffed than British ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soihok Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I appreciate you clarifying the point Andrew, but nevertheless Embassy employees, at whatever grade, should not make throw away remarks like this, be it in a bar in Soi Nana or in the confines of The Foreign Correspondents Club. Diplomats and other staff know only too well that remarks like this will often be quoted out of context even if said to a friend and in fun, look at what happened to the Sky Sport presenters recently. Was this the football commentators ? Well I have say that they are probably correct about the offside rule and the lady linesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preman Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 This is not a condescending comment at all. It is fact. Governments are elected by the trust of the people. They are obliged to help their own people...... 'by law'. The people who work for the Government - are in fact 'Government Servants". Check you facts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soihok Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Glad to hear the US Embassy helped you out when in need and that you have cleared everything with the State Dept. I hope you have made a full recovery. I note that the US Embassy was given a push by a congressman to do something about your case. I believe that the British Embassy would also have been more responsive to Mr Hewitt's life threatening and degrading situation, if there had been a nudge from an MP in the UK, or even a question in the House at prime minister's question time. US embassies are also much better funded and staffed than British ones. As its possible that US citizens pay tax in the US whilst working overseas ( also paying the local tax of the place they live in ), you would expect a resonable service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soihok Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 This is not a condescending comment at all. It is fact. Governments are elected by the trust of the people. They are obliged to help their own people...... 'by law'. The people who work for the Government - are in fact 'Government Servants". Check you facts! OK if you are living on the doorstep in the UK and inside of Europe at least. You are on your own out of that ( unless you are Mark Thatcher or likewise ),,, just make sure that your passport doesn't expire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preman Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Not true, - not enough cash. Are you kidding? Look at the defense budgets. I understand your point though. If people choose to take drugs and become alcoholics., then it is their own choice. My point was that if their is blatant cruelty (as there was in this case), - it is in breach of international law, - and our Governments have an obligation to step in and apply pressure. That is the law. If they do not, then it is a breach. They should be held accountable. I agree with what you say, but all governements break international law when it suits them. Tony Blair once famously said that it's ok to bribe a company if it mean the UK gets jobs out of it. It is illegal in the UK, buy Blair and the then Labour government thought it was ok. The other thing is that there really isn't enough time and money to check on every little thing. We'd all be living in poverty if money was spent on the millions of addicts, alcoholics, etc. I would rather my tax be spent on more worthwhile causes. People know what drugs do. If they choose to still take them I don't think it's the taxpayer's job to pick up the tab. Maybe the Embassy should have applied more pressure in this case, but we just don't know how many similar cases there are. It's easy for people to criticise but if you have to see this bahavior every day you would soon get sick of it. Try working on the front line and see how loing you last. As already mentioned, you are all free to volunteer to help. But no takers yet. Much easier to sit at home and criticise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preman Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Ok - - I agree. All governments breach international law when it suits them. But, see what you are saying? It is OK to spend 'tax payers money" on wars and killing people - in the righteous name of the state / country, but to let citizens be subject to cruel torture is OK. then to say that the duly elected Government cannot intervene because of finances - is absolute rubbish. Has anyone checked to see if the British Embassy was informed of his treatment? Do you understand that when a Government issues a Passport to a citizen - that there are obligations and laws that govern that. Sure, all Governments warn their citizens not to breach local laws when they travel, - or they are subject to those laws. But when there is unjust / cruel treatment? Shame on those Governments. I am not a USA citizen. But, I give that Government - one big thing. They do make a stronger stance than most others for protecting their citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabai-dee-man Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 It's not just the British Embassy. Even in the UK, down and outs on the street don't get any help. They are left to fend for themselves. There just isn't enough cash to pay to help the vast amount of alcoholics and dug addicts in the UK, and probably also in other countries. Yep because billions of pounds squandered on a national health scheme that doesn't work. But never fear Obama wants the same thing. Oy Vey. Tell that to my wife, who was struck down with TB several years ago after our holiday in Thailand and spent 2 1/2 months in hospital on death's door. Tell that to yourself, the next time you crash your bike (although I sincerely hope that never happens) and you don't get frisked for a credit card before being unceremoniously carted off in a maroon pickup... after the so-called emergency services have all had their beaming smiles photographed with you lying in the road. And tell that to my mate who received his new kidney and all the anti-rejection drugs that have so far extended his life almost 20 years. You may be one of the lucky few that have never needed to rely on the NHS, but there are millions that do and that have. Sure, it has it's failings, but in times of crisis, emergency and need, they provide a service I never want to see criticised, especially after the way they helped my wife... I have absolutely no doubts at all that she'd be dead now had she still lived in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanTamo Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 "What happened exactly?? You were in a cell with gangsters and then one of them........... next thing you are in Newark? Armed Marines? You got me sucked into your story here mate please fill in the blanks for us" OK agord. It went like this. I was living in a 'luen thai' (traditional thai wooden house) in Banglamung Moo 9 (its still there, still owned by the ex, too, though she doesn't stay there anymore for some reason), not (yet) in the cop shop, with a bunch of real Thai gangsters and assorted bargirls. I was going through something of a 'midlife crisis,' was reasonably well financed and had been completely off my head for well three years by then. I did eventually spend a long holiday (King's Birthday) weekend in the Banglamung lockup, then a week or so in the Pattaya cop shop, and finally, after a conviction for overstay (that's all I got done for, surprisingly a night in the Immigration holding cell as well, but I scraped up some more cash and a plane ticket 'to country of origin' (as required) and landed at EWR in December, 2001, not long after 9/11 (so that's why there were armed Marines patrolling the airport). Sure did freak me out in my then paranoid state. It took years to get my head straight (somewhat after that and I certainly could NOT do it in Pattaya. Not for want of (pretend) trying. As awful as those cells down the end of the beach are, and they are pretty bad, and I made the acquaintence of some (I particularly recall a middle-aged German) who had been there quite awhile, trying to get plane tickets sorted, and they are flush with more drugs than I could imagine, nevertheless, in my case, its those cells what kept me from a worse fate. Congrats, Richard (and Tracy) for getting yourself turned around in the nick of time. Now get yer butt back to yer Mum's and stay there until you've no more reason to. Pattaya will still be there if you want to make another go of it then! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeral Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 So we have to thank the tireless efforts of the British Honorary Consul, Pattaya, Mr Howard Miller on his behalf, for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soihok Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Ok - - I agree. All governments breach international law when it suits them. But, see what you are saying? It is OK to spend 'tax payers money" on wars and killing people - in the righteous name of the state / country, but to let citizens be subject to cruel torture is OK. then to say that the duly elected Government cannot intervene because of finances - is absolute rubbish. Has anyone checked to see if the British Embassy was informed of his treatment? Do you understand that when a Government issues a Passport to a citizen - that there are obligations and laws that govern that. Sure, all Governments warn their citizens not to breach local laws when they travel, - or they are subject to those laws. But when there is unjust / cruel treatment? Shame on those Governments. I am not a USA citizen. But, I give that Government - one big thing. They do make a stronger stance than most others for protecting their citizens. Welcome to the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DumFarang Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Imagine if this story included a consular employee who checked in on this poor guy, was naturally appalled at the sight, and tried to do everything in his power to see, at least, the better treatment of this man if not much more only to find out that legally he/she had no power over the situation whatsoever. But, nope, none of that in sight. How's it go? They brought him some crackers and considered themselves absolved of the problem? Three cheers for the embassy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prefabs Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 So we have to thank the tireless efforts of the British Honorary Consul, Pattaya, Mr Howard Miller on his behalf, for this? Please no, not another Howard discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) It's not just the British Embassy. Even in the UK, down and outs on the street don't get any help. They are left to fend for themselves. There just isn't enough cash to pay to help the vast amount of alcoholics and dug addicts in the UK, and probably also in other countries. Yep because billions of pounds squandered on a national health scheme that doesn't work. But never fear Obama wants the same thing. Oy Vey. Tell that to my wife, who was struck down with TB several years ago after our holiday in Thailand and spent 2 1/2 months in hospital on death's door. Tell that to yourself, the next time you crash your bike (although I sincerely hope that never happens) and you don't get frisked for a credit card before being unceremoniously carted off in a maroon pickup... after the so-called emergency services have all had their beaming smiles photographed with you lying in the road. And tell that to my mate who received his new kidney and all the anti-rejection drugs that have so far extended his life almost 20 years. You may be one of the lucky few that have never needed to rely on the NHS, but there are millions that do and that have. Sure, it has it's failings, but in times of crisis, emergency and need, they provide a service I never want to see criticised, especially after the way they helped my wife... I have absolutely no doubts at all that she'd be dead now had she still lived in Thailand. Well said, although it could be better it is there and has never failed me. Edited February 2, 2011 by Basil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruebenpiatt Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) Yes I too must agree!! I've been treated much better by Thai.Immgaration and at border checks, then at the U.S. Embassy!! They are rude and won't even give you a answer to a simple question!! And if they do, the answer is not the correct one!!You find out when you return for your next app! Edited February 2, 2011 by ruebenpiatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I understand that the UK Government, Australian Government, - and the USA Government - may indeed have their protocols to follow with reference to how they can assist their own people here in times of need. Particularly, - as someone already posted above, - if they are not known. However, it IS the responsibility of the Governments of our respective countries to make a stand and be strong with the Thai's if they are being cruel or abusive. What were the Thai police supposed to do? Would it have been better for him and the people he would have encountered to just put him back on the street? Were they supposed to come up with money to have him treated in a private facility, something not available readily to their own citizens? Possibly they should have paid for his air evacuation (since given his condition even if they had known about his Emirates ticket, the airline would never have boarded him? There really are no Thai government institutions designed to provide charitable relief for every foreign whacko who goes round the bend in Pattaya and as a recent newspaper article pointed out, some hospitals in Thailand are taking a financial hit providing care for destitute foreigners. This can and should be made a media piece of material in their country's to deal with. It is absolutely disgraceful that a private citizen had to do this. Why is it disgraceful for his fellow citizens to provide for him? If anything this ought to motivate foreign resident nationals to institute plans for dealing with this sort of thing should there be further cases similar to this amongst expats. People on this site should start bombarding these 'servants of the people' (because that is who they are), - and tell them that there are due processes for dealing with them. The passports alone - in all three countries mentioned above - provide a warranty of safe passage and protection. If someone breaks the law, - then of course they have to be subject to the 'laws of the land'. But if the Thai Government / Police are acting improperly, - Being a British public servant does not mean one needs to serve all of the public whatever their needs wherever they are. If that were the case then every postman or traffic warden should be prepared to transport people to hospital or remove snow from the streets. You keep implying the Thai government or police were acting improperly. Thailand is not some UN refugee camp for derelict farang. If the British embassy was notified and the local expat/British community were well aware of his plight, then it's shamelful, but not entirely unexpected, that they did not react out of compassion regardless of any alleged legal responsibility. The British government comes a lot closer to a nanny state than many others, but even it can hardly be expected to look after every Brit in every situation in every country on the planet. I don't know about the British passport, but the US passport simply includes a request from the Secretary of State that I be allowed safe passage and basic legal protection. No warranty. In fact the State Department continually warns people travelling outside the US that it is your responsibility to abide by the laws of the country you are visiting and they can only offer very limited assistance if you screw up. Suradit, you actually make the most sense of anyone on this thread. Everyone else seems to pay lip service to the concept of "personal responsibility." Yes, your government affords you the freedom to travel where you wish (by issuing you a passport) and Thailand allows you to come and stay provided you abide by their laws. But if you squander your "freedom" to do as you please, does "someone else" have to take responsibility all the time? Doesn't the individual bear any responsibility for his/her predicament? If so, why is everyone so quick to jump on the government, Thai, UK, or otherwise? The answer, then, would be for governments to restrict your freedom. I say Thailand should make it more difficult for foreigners to come and stay for an extended period. Tighten up the visa laws, make it more expensive, increase the frequency of visa runs, etc., etc. This would help prevent the type of scenario that the readership seems to be so aghast by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) So we have to thank the tireless efforts of the British Honorary Consul, Pattaya, Mr Howard Miller on his behalf, for this? Please no, not another Howard discussion. As a person who pays a hell of a lot of tax in the UK I feel I have every right to grumble when services funded out of taxes paid by me have deteriorated as the have done since Barry retired. Edited February 2, 2011 by Basil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) Tighten up the visa laws, make it more expensive, increase the frequency of visa runs, etc., etc. This would help prevent the type of scenario that the readership seems to be so aghast by. Increasing visa run frequencies decreases the incidence of mental illness and increases the caring nature of Honorary Consuls. Interesting concept. . Edited February 2, 2011 by Buchholz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soihok Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Basil, as someone who pays UK tax you have plenty to grumble about, not only the state of representation by the Brit government in Pattaya. Can't comment on the service as I have never had to us it, but it don't sound too inspiring. As I keep saying , you are on your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Tighten up the visa laws, make it more expensive, increase the frequency of visa runs, etc., etc. This would help prevent the type of scenario that the readership seems to be so aghast by. Increasing visa run frequencies decreases the incidence of mental illness and increases the caring nature of Honorary Consuls. Interesting concept. . Perhaps you missed my primary objective, to wit, tighten visa laws, resulting in fewer farangs, which ultimately translates to less whining. (Note: tongue-in-cheek) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smedly Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 not sure he was walking in the right circles, thugs and drugs - and he couldn't make friends ahem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJIC Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) "For Richard Hewitt is not a Pattaya Brit who has squandered all his cash on booze, women, and drugs… Well, at least not yet." Well Mr. Drummond, you have lost a few friends here in Pattaya with this paragraph above. The vast majority of PATTAYA BRITS do not squander all of their cash on booze, women an drugs.... ... and you have also insulted Mr. Hewitt with this little line... Well, at least not yet. And you are supposed to be a reporter, or an opinionated columnist? Neither Title,......"well at least not yet" Edited February 2, 2011 by MAJIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewdrummond Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) "For Richard Hewitt is not a Pattaya Brit who has squandered all his cash on booze, women, and drugs… Well, at least not yet." Well Mr. Drummond, you have lost a few friends here in Pattaya with this paragraph above. The vast majority of PATTAYA BRITS do not squander all of their cash on booze, women an drugs.... ... and you have also insulted Mr. Hewitt with this little line... Well, at least not yet. And you are supposed to be a reporter, or an opinionated columnist? Neither Title,......"well at least not yet" Richard's cool here in Bangkok staying by the pool in a 3* hotel. . As it wasmy story that prompted Tracy into action he does not feel insulted. I can understand the poster's paranoia though and that of a poster calling himself soihok, or rather soi 6, Pattaya's notorious short time street. Edited February 2, 2011 by andrewdrummond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preman Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Look, this is so simple. When a man is in jail and being chained to the bars in the nude and being fed crackers. What is that? You people who defend that - are the ones who need a reality check. Because he used alcohol & drugs..... yeh sure ....he needs help...... not torture. That woman is a saint. His Government let him down. That is my my only point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now