Western Women Are Happier Blind?

[Mr. Farang]

Wow! I hesitate to jump into this lively topic! But, then again, why not! I'm not going to take sides or reply directly with (or to) anyone, and will just respond to the thread, in general. Here goes!

There is no doubt that people everywhere are attracted to physical beauty and this often means youth, but not always. I have seen many older people who are much more attractive than certain young people, and in fact I meet many older (every day!), mature women who are more attractive than most younger ladies (and I also meet very attractive young ladies!).... They are all great! But, having said that, I do find it a bit odd that there is so much emphasis on "youth" by some of the posters as if "youth" (or physical beauty) is somehow the ultimate sexual quality in life. This is simply not true.

Granted, we are all attracted to "beauty and youth", but this is simply a first impression, a very superficial attraction that rapidly gives way to less superficial characteristics which are equaly attractive such as, for example, (1) manner of speaking, (2) manners in social interactions, (3) health and cleanliness, (4) attiitude and worldview, (5) self-control (does not easily get angry, for example), etc. And who really wants sex with beautiful, young person if they have bad breath, smell bad, and speak like a monkey, laughing out loud.... not me !!! Maybe someone else? :-)

For example, (for me), a beautiful young girl who has undeveloped social skills and gets angry easily, causing emotional havoc in the lives she is connected with - this person is much less attractive (to me) than an older woman with refined manners and a calm, confidence and assurance about sex and relationships. Another example is the "woman with beautiful breasts" myth. The greatest sex. in fact, that I have had and some of the most wonderful passion in relationships -- that passion had zero to do with the size or youthfulness of breasts.

The old saying "beauty is only skin deep" is not just a catchy phrase to say and forget! It is a long standing truth! "Youth" is also "skin deep" in a sense, but more complex - as factors of innocence, maturity, experience, conditioning, education, loyalty, and myriad other factors come into play.

This could be a very long post - going over all the different "angles" on this topic - but one thing should be certain to all - beauty is superficial and youth is advantagous, and maturity has advantages too. In Asia, the culture has traditionally been driven by the view that (for a woman seeking a man) "physical atttractiveness" and "youth" are not superior in quality to "kindness," "maturity," "stabililty," "power", "wealth"... and why in Thai you often hear - "Very Handsome, but Cannot Eat." On the other hand, the "West" is less driven by these qualities, and people are more inclined to "youth" and "physical beauty" and the rest of the human qualities are often de-emphasized. Many say this is based on the "Video culture", but that is a subject for another time.

Everything in life has two qualities (1) The quality which makes something "attractive" or "unattractive" and (2) the "penalty" one pays for either being "attracted" or "unattracted" to something. This is true for beauty, youth, education, money, status, power, health - indeed every quality.

One should take the time to understand why they are attracted or unattracted to certain qualities and, in turn, take the time to understand the "penalty" they pay for such an "attraction" or "lack of attraction". Many find that, when they take the time to become self-aware of these mental formations, they become less important and tend to dissolve.

Havin said that, I'm very attracted to young, attractive ladies in their 20s, but I quickly look past their beauty and youth and try to see them "as who they are" and not just as "flesh covering bones".... without regard to "who they are inside" and "how they talk and represent themselves"... and how the represent other notions, such as family, society, (and others).

Edited September 8, 2005 by Mr. Farang

[sbk]

Women tend to be far too communal, and can hardly think as an individual. Got to break that circuit. I'm not a mysogynist, really

I love this line. You really are amazing you know that? I have never met someone so full of BS but so incapable of seeing it before.

And that part about underestimating the reaction to your misogyny was another classic. "Oops, I didn't realize this wouldn't be a popular view, better backtrack and cover my butt to make it look like I am really not such a d!ckhead" is what you were really saying.

It's posters like you that make TV all worthwhile, gave me my laugh for today.

[Boo]

A question;

If there was a charming, clever, wonderful attractive women of 50 & a young, attractive, clever & charming women of 25, who would the average 50y/o man choose??

I know what I think the answer would be but would like to get some other views as well.

[Thaipwriter]

A question;

If there was a charming, clever, wonderful attractive women of 50 & a young, attractive, clever & charming women of 25, who would the average 50y/o man choose??

I know what I think the answer would be but would like to get some other views as well.

whoever had the most cash, i can still have 18 yr old mia noi

[britmaveric]

All depends on personality of both - but I'm quite positive you are expecting the 25yr old to win out.

[Boo]

I like thaipwriters answer.

Britm I really don't know who will win, I think the 25y/o will but want honest anwers. It's a mini test for my own info Oh, & these women are identical, personality, values, likes, dislikes, just 25y apart in age.

[britmaveric]

All being equal - if I were 50 i'd most likely pick the 50yr old lady. (life experience is invaluable)

[TRIPxCORE]

A question;

If there was a charming, clever, wonderful attractive women of 50 & a young, attractive, clever & charming women of 25, who would the average 50y/o man choose??

I know what I think the answer would be but would like to get some other views as well.

I go for the one that I feel the best about. After getting to know both of them for some time, I would choose the one I felt the best about in my heart.

[mrbojangles]

I like thaipwriters answer.

Britm I really don't know who will win, I think the 25y/o will but want honest anwers. It's a mini test for my own info Oh, & these women are identical, personality, values, likes, dislikes, just 25y apart in age.

the one with the biggest...........assets

[chonabot]

A question;

If there was a charming, clever, wonderful attractive women of 50 & a young, attractive, clever & charming women of 25, who would the average 50y/o man choose??

I know what I think the answer would be but would like to get some other views as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll tell you when I'm 50 ( a looooong way away )

But if I were single and met an attractive lady my age , and one of 25 I think I would go for the one who cooks the best.

[Mr. Farang]

A question;

If there was a charming, clever, wonderful attractive women of 50 & a young, attractive, clever & charming women of 25, who would the average 50y/o man choose??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I choose the one without an adams apple!

[Old Croc]

A question;

If there was a charming, clever, wonderful attractive women of 50 & a young, attractive, clever & charming women of 25, who would the average 50y/o man choose??

I know what I think the answer would be but would like to get some other views as well.

I'll tell you when I'm 50 ( a looooong way away )

But if I were single and met an attractive lady my age , and one of 25 I think I would go for the one who cooks the best.

As someone who has gotten to be 50ish I can say you wont neccesarily pick the one your own age. For me the ideal is the decade from about mid 30s. That is the age that intelligence, personality and caring comes to the fore. The twenty somethings only think about looks, body, fashions, shoes, phones, girly friends and most of all, themselves. Great to look at, but very high maintenance.

[SiamOne]

As someone who has gotten to be 50ish I can say you wont neccesarily pick the one your own age. For me the ideal is the decade from about mid 30s. That is the age that intelligence, personality and caring comes to the fore. The twenty somethings only think about looks, body, fashions, shoes, phones, girly friends and most of all, themselves. Great to look at, but very high maintenance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, my ancient hubbie says he can't wait till I am 30, for the above reasons

hmmmm

[sanmig]

I love this line. You really are amazing you know that? I have never met someone so full of BS but so incapable of seeing it before.

And that part about underestimating the reaction to your misogyny was another classic. "Oops, I didn't realize this wouldn't be a popular view, better backtrack and cover my butt to make it look like I am really not such a d!ckhead" is what you were really saying. 

It's posters like you that make TV all worthwhile, gave me my laugh for today.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As far as I can tell, there are some general differences between the sexes. Did you know that if a woman is given a shot of testosterone, her ability to read a map will improve? As will some other traditionally masculine abilities. Is that scientific knowledge a form of mysogyny? I highlight these differences not out of hate for a sex. I don't believe men are superior to women. Men and women have general differences. Men fall down in some areas, women in others. Why not laugh at each other and poke fun? Point out the errors of our ways? I apologize if I come across as cranky and aggressive. I'm still learning how to get across what it is I want to say effectively.

[sbk]

Really? I'd love to see where you dug up that little gem of info. Along with the idea that women can't think individually. I mean, really, we can all skew anything to fit what we want it to mean. Try facing some realities here, if you said these things about say, Thai people, or black people you would immediately be labelled a racist.

[Dragonman]

A question;

If there was a charming, clever, wonderful attractive women of 50 & a young, attractive, clever & charming women of 25, who would the average 50y/o man choose??

I know what I think the answer would be but would like to get some other views as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

10 years ago went for the 50 year old despite having younger girlfriends. Lasted 2 years! Older women want a partner to take care of them, but also want to continue with their former life. 5 years ago married the 25 year old and have much more in common and share life together. Women grow up, most men don't

[sanmig]

Great reply Mr. Falang!

I like your point that we pay a price for what we are attracted to. I've been learning about the price I used to pay for my attraction to wealth. My recent solution is to live very simply, and for me, that has improved my quality of life.

In answer to Boo's question, a 25 year old woman is going to be much more attractive to me than a 50 year old woman, all other things being equal. At this point I'm generally no longer interested in dating older women. Perhaps I now put too much emphasis on age, for who I am personally attracted to. I have had several serious relationships with women from 11 to 18 years older than me though. At the age of 34 my fiance was 45. At age 29 my girfriend was 48. At age 24 my then wife was 12 years older. I don't think there is any one answer for all people, and people change their priorities over time as well. I have nothing against someone putting a priority on looks. When people tell my girlfriend, who is blatantly and publicly in love, that her priorities are wrong, that's disrespectful to her intelligence, to her choices. That happens so very often, that it is a pattern, so I talk, and I talk back with insults, because it's a messed up pattern.

[sanmig]

Really? I'd love to see where you dug up that little gem of info. Along with the idea that women can't think individually. I mean, really, we can all skew anything to fit what we want it to mean. Try facing some realities here, if you said these things about say, Thai people, or black people you would immediately be labelled a racist.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I see, so you don't believe in gender differences?

That little gem of info was from the newscientist.com website. There are thousands of studies about gender differences, the conclusions of which you would probably find sexist.

One article which points out some positive and negative effects of testosterone is here:

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:J6IeI...tosterone&hl=en

[sbk]

Ah, New Scientist. A fountain of information. Correct me if I am wrong but didn't they recently run an article advocating "intelligent design" over evolution?

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

 

New Scientist is a weekly international science magazine covering recent developments in science and technology for a general English-speaking audience. As well as covering current events and news from the scientific community, the magazine often features speculative articles, ranging from the philosophical to the technical.

It is not a peer-reviewed scientific journal, but it is widely read by both nonscientists and scientists as a way of keeping track of developments outside their own fields of study or areas of interest. Many science articles in the general press are based on its contents; and it is a popular method for artists who are interested in art-science links to get information about scientific innovations, material about how the brain works, and perception. The magazine is also strong on environmental issues.

Based in London, New Scientist has US and Australian editions as well as a British edition. Its associated Web site, NewScientist.com, runs daily news stories along with some of the articles that appear in the print edition.

The magazine was founded in 1956. It is published by Reed Business Information Ltd, a subsidiary of Reed Elsevier.

On 11 December 2004 the magazine gave front page to intelligent design advocate Paul Davies. On 30 July 2005 the magazine again published an article supporting the idea by ex-nun Karen Armstrong.

On 30 August 2005 an article was published on the website entitled "Most scientific papers are probably wrong", based on one study done in Greece. The title is being passed around by anti-science groups.

Like I said before, you can come up with "facts" to fit any idea you want.

So tell me, if you give a man a shot of estrogen does that mean he'll stop and ask for directions after getting lost trying to read the map?

[tripperj]

Sanmig i really think u r too conserned what "western women" think of u. I myself am 27 and head over heals in love witha 22 yo thai lady. We meet in a bar in pattaya. We really hit it off and are now very happy. Many of my friends warned me of the risks, and many judge me and think i'm being takin' for a ride. But to be honest i know her and know what our relatinship is. I won't bore you with the details as it's none of your or anyone elses business, but i'm happy, she's happy and we'r getting on with our lives. I sugest you do the same.

[Boo]

well said tripperj

[kat]

Wow!  I hesitate to jump into this lively topic!    But, then again, why not!  I'm not going to take sides or reply directly with (or to) anyone, and will just respond to the thread, in general.  Here goes!

There is no doubt that people everywhere are attracted to physical beauty and this often means youth, but not always.  I have seen many older people who are much more attractive than certain young people, and in fact I meet many older (every day!), mature women who are more attractive than most younger ladies (and I also meet very attractive young ladies!).... They are all great!    But, having said that, I do find it a bit odd that there is so much emphasis on "youth" by some of the posters as if "youth" (or physical beauty)  is somehow the ultimate sexual quality in life.  This is simply not true.

Granted, we are all attracted to "beauty and youth", but this is simply a first impression, a very superficial attraction that rapidly gives way to less superficial characteristics which are equaly attractive such as, for example, (1) manner of speaking, (2) manners in social interactions, (3) health and cleanliness, (4) attiitude and worldview, (5) self-control (does not easily get angry, for example), etc.  And who really wants sex with beautiful, young person if they have bad breath, smell bad,  and speak like a monkey, laughing out loud.... not me !!!  Maybe someone else? :-) 

For example, (for me), a beautiful young girl who has undeveloped social skills and gets angry easily, causing emotional havoc in the lives she is connected with - this person is much less attractive (to me) than an older woman with refined manners and a calm, confidence and assurance about sex and relationships.    Another example is the "woman with beautiful breasts" myth.  The greatest sex. in fact, that I have had and some of the most wonderful passion in relationships -- that passion had zero to do with the size or youthfulness of breasts.

The old saying "beauty is only skin deep" is not just a catchy phrase to say and forget!  It is a long standing  truth!  "Youth" is also "skin deep" in a sense, but more complex -  as factors of innocence, maturity, experience, conditioning, education, loyalty, and myriad other factors come into play.

This could be a very long post - going over all the different "angles" on  this topic - but one thing should be certain to all - beauty is superficial and youth is advantagous, and maturity has advantages too.    In Asia, the culture has traditionally been driven by the view that (for a woman seeking a man) "physical atttractiveness" and "youth" are not superior in quality to "kindness,"  "maturity,"  "stabililty," "power", "wealth"... and why in Thai you often hear - "Very Handsome, but Cannot Eat."  On the other hand, the "West" is less driven by these qualities, and people are more inclined to "youth" and "physical beauty" and the rest of the human qualities are often de-emphasized.  Many say this is based on the "Video culture", but that is a subject for another time.

Everything in life has two qualities  (1)  The quality which makes something "attractive" or "unattractive" and (2) the "penalty" one pays for either being "attracted" or "unattracted" to something.  This is true for beauty, youth, education, money, status, power, health - indeed every quality. 

One should take the time to understand why they are attracted or unattracted to certain qualities and, in turn, take the time to understand the "penalty" they pay for such an "attraction" or "lack of attraction".  Many find that, when they take the time to become self-aware of these mental formations, they become less important and tend to dissolve.

Havin said that, I'm very attracted to young, attractive ladies in their 20s, but I quickly look past their beauty and youth and try to see them "as who they are" and not just as "flesh covering bones".... without regard to "who they are inside" and "how they talk and represent themselves"... and how the represent other notions, such as family, society, (and others).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

After all that you wind up with this gem of a conclusion: "Havin said that, I'm very attracted to young, attractive ladies in their 20s,"

Thanks for sharing Gotta love this forum sometimes

[toyicebear]

Live your life today, learn by your mistakes tomorrow....

[Mr. Farang]

  After all that you wind up with this gem of a conclusion: "Havin said that, I'm very attracted to young, attractive ladies in their 20s,"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What I said was...

"Havin said that, I'm very attracted to young, attractive ladies in their 20s, but I quickly look past their beauty and youth and try to see them "as who they are" and not just as "flesh covering bones".... without regard to "who they are inside" and "how they talk and represent themselves"... and how the represent other notions, such as family, society, (and others)."

... which is really quite different than the "conclusion" you try to extract or create - laugthing out loud., as the statement you quote is not a "conclusion" but an afterthought.

The "conclusion" if there was one was (as other readers readily saw):

"Everything in life has two qualities (1) The quality which makes something "attractive" or "unattractive" and (2) the "penalty" one pays for either being "attracted" or "unattracted" to something. This is true for beauty, youth, education, money, status, power, health - indeed every quality.

One should take the time to understand why they are attracted or unattracted to certain qualities and, in turn, take the time to understand the "penalty" they pay for such an "attraction" or "lack of attraction". Many find that, when they take the time to become self-aware of these mental formations, they become less important and tend to dissolve."

"Gotta love this forum sometimes!

Based on *your* (.....) reply, Kat, I could not agree with you more ;-)

[thaibebop]

A question;

If there was a charming, clever, wonderful attractive women of 50 & a young, attractive, clever & charming women of 25, who would the average 50y/o man choose??

I know what I think the answer would be but would like to get some other views as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am not 50 yet but if I was and choosing a partner I would say I would choose the 50yr old woman. I have always liked older women but in the case I would think that the 50yr old lady and I would have more in common. I wouldn't have to worry about keeping up with her or if she wants children. A 25yr old woman has got a long life ahead of her and at 50 I would closer to the grave than getting things done. I think the 50yr old woman would understand that, a better relationship there I think.

[sanmig]

A question;

If there was a charming, clever, wonderful attractive women of 50 & a young, attractive, clever & charming women of 25, who would the average 50y/o man choose??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Older women want a partner to take care of them, but also want to continue with their former life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, that was succinct and accurate. Yeah, I had the same experience with my older ex fiance. She wanted me to take care of her and to play house, but told me that she felt too old to uproot herself and travel with me. My new GF would go anywhere with me. It seems that Asian women understand the whole package of being dependent better than western women, who want the best of both chivalry and emancipation. The Asian women I've known did better with the gestalt of playing house, and found their power and generosity comfortably within that limited role. For instance my girlfriend expresses her devotion to our relationship with the way she chops vegetables. She never asks me to help her. Her little chopping motions fill our house with love, and you can feel her respect for our shared love in her share of our mutual endeavor. My ex wife wanted me to earn all the money and share in all her chores, as if housework was a political statement. Not to say that partners shouldn't be equal, but that if a man or woman chooses to be financially dependent, that submissive role has a whole context around it. Men and women are encultured with different ideas of entitlement. Women think that pussy is money, and a real man will fork up one way or another. That's fine, if that attitude comes with it's proper flip side of forking over power as well.

[sanmig]

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't they recently run an article advocating "intelligent design" over evolution?

Yes, you are wrong. And no, you can't come up with any facts to make any argument. The world is real.

[Boo]

give up sanmig, your digging a bigger hole to wallow in. 3 little word; up to you, look these word up in the dictionary if they are too hard for you to understand ok, precious.

[sanmig]

"Everything in life has two qualities  (1)  The quality which makes something "attractive" or "unattractive" and (2) the "penalty" one pays for either being "attracted" or "unattracted" to something.  This is true for beauty, youth, education, money, status, power, health - indeed every quality.

Once again, respect for you communication ability, Mr. Falang. You took a vast and complicated subject and distilled it into a simple, easy to understand and to remember image. Is that an original idea? It was helpful to me.

Edited September 10, 2005 by sanmig

[sbk]

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't they recently run an article advocating "intelligent design" over evolution?

Yes, you are wrong. And no, you can't come up with any facts to make any argument. The world is real.

Re-read the wikipedia article bud. Or, perhaps, i should say, read it for the first time.

No wonder people say things to you. It isn't about the age difference at all!